How dirty is too dirty?
A reader named Craig has asked a very compelling question of Fridge Magnet readers. In case you didn’t see it in the comment section, here it is:
As a frequent reader of ‘Restaurant news’ at the Fridge Magnet I am always curious as to how many of you ever bother to visit the Virginia Department of Health website and review the health inspection records of your ‘favorite’ restaurants – such as Alejandro’s. With all the recent furor over the problems in the Market Building why is it that no other dining establishment in Roanoke is deemed too dirty to eat in? Just how many ‘critical violations’ is too many for you guys?
This is my response:
To be quite honest, Craig, I haven’t checked health inspections in a very long time. And that’s because I think the Virginia Department of Health does those inspections for a reason — so they can shut a restaurant down when it gets “too dirty to eat in.” That’s what happened at the Market building.
When I did spend a lot of time checking those inspections, I found many violations that didn’t really concern me that much. And I often wonder how many violations the health department would find if they came into my kitchen while I was cooking. I’m not saying my kitchen is dirty or that the health codes are too strict, I’m just saying they are in place to protect us as consumers and I don’t really believe there are a bunch of restaurants out there operating on dangerous levels and getting by with it. If an inspector sees a violation, he isn’t going to ignore it because it’s his job to protect us. And they follow up regularly to make sure those violations are corrected. If they are not, action is taken.
I will also add that I’m not an extremely squeamish person, either. I think squeamish people would hardly ever, EVER dine out if they checked inspections religiously. But I wouldn’t blame anyone for being turned off by a record of failed inspections. It’s up to the individual person. What do others think? And if there are any health department folks out there reading this blog, I would welcome your comments, too (anonymous if you wish).
November 12, 2008 - 4:56 PM
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Temperatures and hand washing practices are my biggest pet peeve. Food has to be safe and germ free (obvious, I know) to be enjoyed.
My father is a retired sanitarian from the Health Department. His job was to inspect restaurants and school cafeterias within a specific section of the locality in which he worked. While all sanitarians should receive comparable training, my impression is that some are stricter in observing/enforcing violations than others, or at least that’s the way it was when he was still in the workforce. All I know is that if my father wouldn’t eat at a restaurant, I avoided it as well. By being exposed to and reminded on a regular basis about the basics, I imagine I am a bit more watchful when eating out, and probably more attentive when preparing food. I don’t check the inspections on a regular basis, but I must admit that before I try out a restaurant for the first time, I am inclined to check the inspection record.
I don’t check the Health Dept. inspection records either. If a place looks really dirty to me, or if I or someone I know gets sick from food from a certain restaurant or the food looks or tastes bad, then I would not go back. I know we can’t always see what’s going on in the kitchen, but I agree, if it’s really a danger to diner’s health then the place would be shut down.
I’ve never gotten food poisoning from a restaurant, but I have gotten it from eating in other peoples’ homes. So no, I’m not too worried. Honestly, I think a lot of concern over health codes has xenophobic undertones–I hear it way more often about ethnic food restaurants owned by immigrants.
I have to speak up on this one. I am an executive chef of an area restaurant. First of all, I have a wonderful working relationship with the state health department. I believe that they are here to help us do our job better. I have never thought of the health department as the enemy or as someone trying to shut me down. I think of them as another set of eyes to insure that I and fellow restauranteurs are doing things correctly.
I have always used the health inspections as a measuring tool to judge how I and my staff are doing. If criticals and non-criticals are found during an inspection, I see to it to correct those items immediately and look for solutions in the future to see that they do not happen again.
This is my duty as a chef. I believe it is vital to the success of a restaurant to take this seriously.
When you go out to a restaurant to eat, just look around. Use the restroom. Is the restroom clean? Is your table clean? Is the carpet under your table vacuumed? If you answer yes to these questions, then I bet the kitchen is clean as well.
I have to agree with Lindsey, there is not a lot of restaurants operating on dangerous levels. The state health departments around here do a good job.
Aside from the recent Market Building fiasco, the VDH in Roanoke has only closed 2 restaurants in the recent past.
The Grill of the South, up on Williamson by Happy’s and Valley Animal Hospital was the most recent. And that was with the owners assistance (leaky roof problem, they were more than happy to close).
Prior to that, and the first one I can find any record of – would be the Star City Diner, which had numerous violations of a truly critical nature – including raw sewage in the basement, rotten produce being used for meals, infestations and god knows what else. Add to that the fact the owner was horrible in paying any bills, including payroll (he still owes people money) – and this was a gift to Roanoke, the shuttering of the Star City Diner.
I am trained in HACCP (the standard that the federal govt. uses, and wants everyone else to use) and have been in many kitchens here in Roanoke. I can tell you, anyone who thinks a kitchen is dirty has never worked in a commercial kitchen. However, some of the violations I have personally witnessed, some of them ongoing and visible during inspections, makes my mind wobble with jealousy – that I could not have had these inspectors in some of the other states I have worked in.
And yet – there seems to be no actual guideline for shutting a business due to critical violations. Or not one the VDH is willing to share.
My biggest question comes from the fact that the VDH does not seem to inspect supermarkets. Pull up the report for any Kroger, Food Lion, Ukrops, or The Fresh Market – only the deli areas are inspected. With the amount of prepared food being sold out of these places, much of it made on site – you would think the VDH would be a bit more interested in inspecting the whole place. Kroger and The Fresh Market both are, as far as I am concerned – under-inspected.
Just my 2 cents.
I will usually check out the VDH reports, and it has kept me from eating or returning to some restaurants because of repeated violations that were never fixed. For a lot of the minor violations, I don;t really mind. But some of the more severe ones like handling raw chicken, then mixing a salad and serving it, that doesn’t fly with me…especially if it’s been noted on more than one occasion. I would like to see VA adopt an NC-style grading system for restaurants and other food-prep locations, and have those scores posted in plain sight of customers. I think it’s helpful and valuable information to have, and it really encourages the restaurants to keep things clean, sanitary, and to the codes…otherwise people won’t eat there if their scores are too low.
Thanks for starting the thread Lindsey. While I may disagree with some of your comments I agree with others. I do ‘close my eyes’ and hope for the best when I eat out. I often enter an establishment guessing it might not be the cleanest, etc, but I assume that I won’t be forced to confront the issues while I’m dining and that I will exit the establishment in good health. Conversely, I’ve seen firsthand how ‘paying off’ a health inspector can allow all manner of violations to continue and flourish. The VDH inspection reports are a good benchmark, in my opinion, of how a restaurant is being run and diners can assume what they wish from their results. I’ll be very curious to read what others think. I bet there will be many new hits on the VDH site as a result of this.
Finally, as an FYI, I posted my comment from London although I do now primarily live in Roanoke. I still use ‘British’ English (furore) and hope that will not be held against me.
Hey, this has been a great discussion so far. Now I am very interested myself in just what has to happen for a restaurant to get closed down. But I think they have to have a certain number of strikes against them. For instance, if they are cited for a violation they have a certain amount of time to fix it. If it isn’t fixed when the inspector comes back, they have two strikes. But I don’t know all the details from there. I’ll contact the health department today and see if I can find out more.
Craig, now I understand the “furore.” Haha. I just changed it to the English spelling so nobody else would think you spelled it wrong
Roanokefound wrote:
“Aside from the recent Market Building fiasco, the VDH in Roanoke has only closed 2 restaurants in the recent past.
The Grill of the South, up on Williamson by Happy’s and Valley Animal Hospital was the most recent. And that was with the owners assistance (leaky roof problem, they were more than happy to close).”
Someone please help me understand how Valley Animal Hospital is a restaurant, and why they would be closed.
Clarification on inspections for grocery stores….
It is true the VDOH does only inspect “deli” areas in most cases. However, grocery stores are subject to Virginia Department of Ag inspections on a regular basis. These inspections encompass the entire store, including deli areas.
When I lived in NC they had a grading system for restaurants that had to be posted and I believe Ds and Fs were closed until they could bring up their score. They would actually publicize all inspection results on the TV news and in the newspaper.
Most restaurants were consistently A’s but it was very helpful – since so many had good scores I was always very suspicious if I saw a C.
If the restroom is dirty, I will not return to the restaurant. I guess maybe that’s “after the fact”, but it will stick with me. If I happen to use the restroom before I’m seated, I will leave if I find it unsatisfactory. I thought this was just one of my strange ideas. I am also very concerned about how clean the floor is, not to mention tables and silverware. I’m sure the kitchens of some of the places I eat would change my mind, but I only see the public places, for the most part.
RoanokeLongtimer, I believe Roanokefound was saying that the Grill of the South was located near Happy’s Flea Market and Valley Animal Hospital, not that the animal hospital is a restaurant. Now THAT might create some health department violations.
RoanokeLongtimer, I misread Roanokefound’s comment wrong too. lol.
Thanks for clearing that up Lindsey. Pets and clean food don’t usually mix in a dining establishment.