Banning kids from restaurants
Let’s play this entry Law & Order-style and rip a scene from recent headlines. On July 14, the Wall Street Journal ran an article by reporter Kris Maher called “Restaurant Bans Kids and Wins Fans.”
In short, the owner of a small restaurant outside Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania decided to ban children under the age of 6 from his establishment.
A paragraph from the article: “I’m doing this on behalf of all the kind, refined people who have emailed me who have had meals ruined,” said Mr. Vuick, a former high-school sociology and psychology teacher. “I’ve decided someone in our society had to dig their heels in on this issue.”
I looked up Vuick’s restaurant online to see what kind of place it is. To my surprise, it does not appear to be a fine dining restaurant – he bills it as casual, actually.
If you’ll read the WSJ story, you’ll see that while some folks applauded Vuick’s move, others said they’d never eat in his restaurant again.
I’d like to know what you think about what he did. Was it gutsy? Did somebody, somewhere need to do this? Or does he deserve to lose the customers he has alienated for being intolerant of little children in his restaurant?
July 27, 2011 - 6:00 AM
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This sounds similar to banning white women because one got drunk at your restaurant and ran someone over in the parking lot. Or white men in their 20s because they did the same. Both of those things have happened in recent memory in Roanoke. I’d say they are much more significant reasons to ban a segment of the human population from your restaurant. Why not start asking parents to restrain their children if they are causing an unreasonable disturbance? Or we could start Jimmy Crow Jr. and have the separate but equal families with young children eat in the old smoking section, which is basically what many restaurants do anyway. That guy is a jerk.
People dining in restaurants, shopping, etc should not have their experiences ruined because of bad parenting. I’ve seen plenty of instances where parents have missed the boat in good parenting skills and would rather not be subjected to the brunt of it while trying to eat or do some other ejoyable activity. Good for this PA guy … Too bad he has to do this because of the way much of society is raising their kids.
It’s his right to do what he wants with his restaurant. I think it might be better to clearly post that loud, obnoxious behavior will not be tolerated. If parents can’t control their children, ask them to leave. For a casual dining restaurant to ban all children does not make good business sense, IMO.
Do I think this was a gutsy move? I guess so. However, the gutsy move would ensure that I would never enter the establishment. If children aren’t exposed to experiences like dining out, they don’t have the opportunity to learn the behavior that is acceptable for public dining. I think his gutsy move simply turned his restaurant into a club for people who don’t like children. He’ll seldom see new faces, unless it’s by customers who don’t know his policy against children. Also, it makes me wonder if this is legal, since it’s discriminating against kids.
Good grief! I just read the article, then viewed the website – the restaurant is a golf clubhouse! The owner defines it as “fine casual dining.” He doesn’t mention children being banned on the website. Somehow, I have a feeling that when a golfer makes a hole in one, there will be much more noise in the restaurant than if a child was crying. Sorry, but I couldn’t help commenting again upon learning what his fine establishment is.
In reality he banned parents who can’t manage their kids. Yes, these kind of parents should be banned from taking kids into restaurants.
First, if the owner of a restaurant wants to ban children below a certain age, that’s his business. He’s taken into consideration the pros and cons and made his decision accordingly. We can choose to patronize him or not, that’s our business.
Secondly, I think there are family style venues where children of any age are appropriate and again, there are those where kids should be left at home. Family nights out are a wonderful thing and are to be encouraged, BUT, let’s face it guys. If you decide to take the lady in your life out for a nice, quiet dinner, to get her out of the house and spend some serious money on her, to show her that you love and appreciate her, take her to a place that doesn’t encourage kids. If you have children of your own, get a sitter. If you’re giving her a break from your own kids, neither of you should have to be bothered by someone elses.
He’ll probably lose a few and gain a few. If he wants to take the risk of doing this, it’s his place, and if he loses clientele it’s his problem.
There are other ways to discourage people from bringing little kids – offering no kiddy menu and having no highchairs.
Some say they will never eat there again. Put the shoe on the other foot. How many may never eat there again because of the out of control kids. There are no easy answers.
I love kids. I don’t have any, but I think they’re great. That said, I would DEFINITELY love going to a restaurant with NO chance of a child running amok.
Seriously, imagine never having to worry about crying children, thrown food, well any of it really. Maybe just the occasional spilt glass of wine when someone gets dumped, but that’s it.
Ah, bliss.
Wow, does that touch a nerve, or what!? I used to get upset when small children “caused a scene” and disrupted my meal. Then I realized: it’s not the little kids fault, it’s the parent(s) for not controlling the child or taking him/her OUTSIDE! I say ban parents who can’t control their children!
On another note, also con- cerning kids, I saw this sign in a gift shop: “Unattended Children will be given a double espresso and a puppy!” Is that not hysterical!?
When my boys were small (under 2) one would throw food on the floor and the other one would shriek. We quickly learned to not take them to a restaurant until they were older and could behave. Some parents allow their children to run around the restaurant and do whatever they want. This is not only dangerous (I’ve worked in restaurants and would have hated to trip over a small body while carrying a large tray), but inconsiderate to other diners. If parents had any sense they would either leave their children at home or teach them to behave appropriately in a restaurant. I applaud the owner’s rules banning children, as I am sure there is a reason behind it, but he could also make rules for the children’s behavior and make those rules clear to parents so everyone could enjoy their meal.
I have no problem with this. I’ve had too many meals ruined by children nearby allowed to scream, cry, throw food on the floor, parents yelling at them, and kids jumping in the booth seat causing it to hit my back, etc. etc. I have kids of my own and they behaved or were immediately taken out – never allowed to throw fits or be obnoxious and remain in the restaurant. I’ve even changed orders already placed to take out.
Since can not ban “poorly behaved children or poorly parenting parents” then I understand setting an age.
I’m leaning towards, a man has the right to run his business the way he wants to and the people or patrons can choose to do business there or not, but I also like what Ernie had to say.
The Old English Inn which used to be on 221 near Poages Mill, banned children. I see no problem with this. I love kids but they do not have to free access everywhere. It is always the worst behaved kids whose parents are oblivious to their “little angel’s” behavior
I’d eat there. But, I don’t fault the kids. I’ve had too many dining and drinking experiences wrecked by poor parenting. The worst was we were celebrating a birthday of a friend at Macado’s late at night. We arrived at 11 or so, and got a table for about a dozen of us. 2 tables over was a couple eating their dinner with child asleep in a stroller, and they complained to the management about us being ‘too loud for their sleeping child.’ It was almost midnight, in a bar, and they had a 1-year old with them. Hello?
The screamers and seat kickers bother me as well, but more so when the parents won’t rein in their child’s behavior when it is clearly impacting those around them, and they’ve been politely asked to correct the situation and their response is a shoulder shrug or an eye roll.
William, I think that in a situation where you are in enjoying yourself in a vicinity near a wild kid, it is a great idea to politely ask the parent to do their job. Unfortunately, from my experience, this is not always effective. Take for example, the parent with the chattering child who were both seated two rows in front of me at the Grandin Theatre during “Twilight: Eclipse”. When asked to quiet their child, the parent stood up from her seat, turned to my friend who had made the request and shouted, “Who the f___ do you think you are? My child is allowed to do what he likes. You can go f___ yourself!” … Not exaggerating for effect. That is what she said. Then she proceeded to sit down and mutter loudly about “nosy b______,” etc. The rest of the movie was tense, awkward and essentially ruined for myself as an onlooker and most definitely for my friend. So, in theory, yes, simply asking parents to control their child makes the most sense, but personally, I would rather the problem be handled by the establishments that I patronize, so I can enjoy myself without risking the ire of a self-righteous parent with a short fuse.
Editor’s note: I blankety-blanked out the words in this post. And this is a good time to say that if I ever change any posts, which I hardly *ever* do, I’ll let y’all know in an editor’s note. OK, carry on.
Children under 6 are unpredictable. You can be the best parent in the world and your child can still melt into a screaming, crying heap and there is nothing you can do to stop it. I see nothing wrong with banning kids from certain eateries. There are lots of other places for kids to enjoy their meals out.
I applaud the restaurant owner for his decision and wish more would follow his lead. His restaurant may not be a fine dining establishment but I believe you should be able to enjoy your meal no matter how much you are paying for it. Several years ago I made reservations at Brugh’s Mill for Valentines Day. My husband and I dressed up and expected a romantic dinner by the fireplace — instead we were seated next to a couple who had brought their 2 children which was completely inexcusable.
By the way, I am the mother of a daughter who is grown and the grandmother of a small child so I have been there myself. I believe if you have children who can’t behave, keep them at home and if you are out somewhere and your child misbehaves, take your food to go and leave the restaurant. My mother would not have condoned such horrible behavior and I bet if the other people who posted on this are let’s say over 25 as well then their parents probably did not tolerate it either!
Perhaps if more upscale rest. would ban children after 8pm we could choose whether we wanted to dine with children or not. Too many meals spoiled by infants brought in at late hours who act up because it’s way past their bedtime. Often the parents even encourage bad behavior by letting them “play” with silverware, salt shakers, etc. as toys. The worst ones allow their kids to bring video games along to play with. It is always bad parenting rather than bad kids. If you can afford to eat out you can afford a baby-sitter.
Lots of talk about this on the blogosphere today! Similarly, lots of talk about “the choice to remain child-free” -tough day to be a kid!
(Not that i’m disparaging anyone’s choice – having children is a huge responsibility not to be taken lightly).
IMO, it’s the right of a business owner to decide whether or not banning children is the best business practice for them. Anyone who has had their experience disrupted by an unhappy child can relate to wanting to avoid these situations.
Will my husband and I still frequent restaurants that have this policy? Probably, it depends on the attitude that it is presented with. But, as has been said here, if we’re going to pay for a sitter to watch our toddler so we can go out, I don’t really want to be sitting next to more children at our dinner.
That being said, when we plan to go out to dinner without our son, it is usually somewhere that is not child appropriate anyways – I wouldn’t take my 2yo to Frankie Rowlands for example.
Also, when thinking about whether a restaurant is “kid friendly”, you should really be thinking about whether your kid is “restaurant friendly”. We always go to dinner at an early hour, bring snacks just in case the food doesn’t come quick enough, tip well, and always leaving to head home by 7pm – so as not to inflict a tired child on the waitstaff, other patrons, and ourselves. Not even parents enjoy a dinner out with a cranky kid. If he can’t handle it, then we pack up, get our stuff to go, and GO. Children will only learn how to behave in restaurants if you teach them.
These blanket assumptions that parents are handling their children poorly and that is why they must be banned aren’t fair to parents who really are doing their best to raise well behaved social creatures. It’s really more of the case of a few bad apples spoiling the bunch.
And i can understand that, it just peeves me when people start acting like a society without children in public is this amazing, desirable thing. I really don’t think it is.
BTW – another huge pet peeve, what is with parents bringing portable dvd players into the restaurant for their children to watch DURING dinner? why not just leave them at home in front of the tv? this just seems like a bad precedent for the future for me.
Some very thoughtful comments here, folks. While I do not have the experience of a parent, I do wonder about the assertion that if you can afford to go out to eat, you can afford a babysitter. Babysitters are pretty expensive these days. I know people who really cannot afford to go out to eat AND pay a sitter. But they instead take their kids out to family-style restaurants on kids eat free night, and they make their kids behave.
My folks occasionally took us out to eat with them. I remember that if we behaved inappropriately, we were taken outside and spanked. I know some people are opposed to spanking, but I turned out OK.
I have to say I love children and I suppose it is up to the owner to decide who they will allow in their establishment. However, I must say I have had meals upset by foul mouthed and obnoxious adults much more often than by children.
Nothing like having your 80 dollar meal ruined by some squawling brat or three. My wife and I actually witnessed a patron changing her baby’s diaper on the table in one of Roanoke’s Indian restaurants. Want to teach your kids the fine points of dining out? Two words, Chuckie Cheese.
Let capitalism work, if this guy made a good choice his restaurant will thrive. There are restaurants that you should not be taking very young children to anyway. They can learn ‘restaurant manners’ in less formal surroundings. Parents have a responsibility not only to teach their children proper behavior, but to be cognizant of what is reasonable. It is NOT reasonable to go to a formal restaurant and let your children be disruptive. Yet some parents are not willing to parent or to have common sense / manners themselves.
My husband and I raised our children and we’d NEVER allow them to disrupt the atmosphere in a restaurant (or elsewhere). First, we chose the restaurants we went to carefully given their age. If they got out of hand, which all children will do from time to time, we’d get up and leave and take our food home. NOW we like to go out to dinner, having been through this phase and have a nice dinner without the interruptions. We expect to be able to do this in nicer restaurants. We do not in restaurants that cater to a broader audience… family oriented.
I’d pay extra on airlines for guaranteed adults only seating.
To clarify my earlier statement – the establishment should ask unruly children and their parents to leave. By banning “children under six” the establishment is banning even the most well behaved kids/families. That’s discrimination, which is something that’s not up to the business owner to decide. Otherwise there would still be restaurants in this nation that would choose not to serve African-Americans. And that’s a fact. The owner should grow a pair and ask people, of any age, who are disruptive to leave. He’s being chickenblank and taking it out on the youngest customers, whether they are poorly behaved or not. He’s a jerk.
I guess it is the owner’s right to refuse service to a group of people (in this case kids). It’s a shame that it comes to this. As a parent I do take my kids out to restaurants and I expect proper behavior. You can’t teach kids how to behave in these situations if they are never exposed to them. And yes I have seen examples of kids who have been allowed to run wild in places. Most of the problems can be avoided if the parents consider how other people view their children’s behavior in public; and if the child is tired, upset, etc. If they are, then dining out isn’t going to be enjoyable for the parents or other patrons. As a parent I also consider what restaurant I’m going too. Although I frequently am approached by other patrons complimenting my kids good behavior I still wouldn’t take them to a truly upscale restaurant yet. I will have to agree with Karen T. I have had many more meals ruined by foul mouthed adults than kids.
“the establishment should ask unruly children and their parents to leave. ”
How do you know a restaurant will do that before the incident starts? I’ve never had a visit ruined by a child but children don’t bother me. If this guy wants to have this rule, so be it. It’s his place.
It’s not always about loud and obnoxious behavior. Kids are very messy and most parents do nothing to help minimize the mess or pick up anything before leaving. He has every right to indicate that his establishment is not meant for children under 6, regardless of the reason. Look at it as a great opportunity to get a babysitter and enjoy some adult time!
Persecutie’s comment makes me think of a woman who was in my daughter’s Mom’s group. About 4 yrs ago when most of the children were toddlers, they were discussing time outs and other ways to handle bad behavior as the children got older.
The mother said, that she wanted her daughter to think for herself. She didn’t want her to have to abide by society’s rules simply because society felt she should. My thoughts were, I hope that child is naturally well behaved or heaven help those who have to be around her.
Based in this logic, does the parent of a messy, loud, disruptive 6 or 7 year old get to disturb with impunity? “BLEEP NO I WON’T LEAVE! MY SON IS 7!”
This owner does not understand this is your future business.I always try and go over to the kids and greet them along with the parents and most of the time they are great.If you win the little ones over, they are the ones wanting to have a return visit.I have had kids who are now parents coming with their kids.If the child is truly unruly it’s not the kid ,it’s the parents and that is who I would deal with.
I’ve noticed several comments about children learning how to behave while dining out by taking them out to eat. Seems to me that they should have learned that at home to begin with. Just a thought.
As a parent of a 1 year old, I see nothing wrong with this. My son is fairly well behaved in restaurants (but we are getting to the dreaded “terrible 2s”) and I do my best to quell any messes that he may make the best that I can. We ate out last night and I spent time before we left cleaning Cherrios off the table & floor but that’s just me. I take responsibility for my kid and his actions, a lot of parents don’t.
I think it’s fair to spare other restaurant patrons the noise and let them have a nice meal in peace. Lord knows that the parent with the unruly child would LOVE to have the same experience if possible!! It’s his restaurant, let him do what he wants. If he fails, the joke is on him.
Too many parents simply don’t discipline or control their children anymore, but expect everyone else to put up with it.
Great decision!
As a parent of older children, I/we always tried to consider the other diners. If our child/children became what seemed to be an irritant to the other diners, we would walk our child out & ‘have a discussion’ with them. If it occurred again whle we were dining, either my husband or I would take the child to the car & that child would not be allowed to finish their meal. (The same thing applied when we were at home.) It basically only took this ‘routine’ to happen twice for our child to know what was acceptable & what was not when eating as a family in any setting. After seeing parents ‘dropping the parenting ball’ in restaurants. I believe this owner has every right to prohibit very young children in his restaurant. The cost of eating out at any restaurant is luxury to most families. I believe more casual & fine dining restaurants will adopt this procedure & not be criticized or berated because of the actions they decided to take for the benefit/enjoyment of most of their diners.
I feel I have the right to eat my pricey meal in a fine dining restaurant in peace and quiet. In any restaurant,for that matter.Why do I have to participate while parents teach their children how to behave in restaurants, as Vicki suggests? I hope this movement catches on. It’s long overdue. There once was smoking and non-smoking areas in restaurants. How about separate areas for people with kids?
One of my favorite pastimes and treats to myself is to eat out. I’ve done so for many years and on too many occasions I have had my meal interrupted and ruined due to ill-behaved children. I don’t blame the children as much as I do the parents who, in most of the cases I observed, did nothing to quieten their children or curb their bad behavior. At TGIF we sat next to a young couple with two kids who yelled and threw food on the floor the entire time they were in the restaurant. The parents never did anything, and when it was time to leave, they just got up after paying and walked out, leaving the staff to clean up the awful mess. When I said something to one of the waitresses, she said it happens all the time! Therefore, I applaud the man in Pa. for standing his ground and banning children. I would eat there in a heartbeat, no problem.
The photo indeed shows a fine “casual dining” facility. Being a “babe magnet” (I attract screaming babies) has been a curse that I’ve carried for many years.
Without fail the hostess will invariably seat a family with a screeching/screaming child next to me. I have come to anticipate it when I dine out. It will not bother families that have screaming babies, they are used to it. A non-smoking, non-child dining area would be great so that many of us can enjoy a normal and peaceful meal.
I think this is a great idea and BRAVO! to Mr. Vuick for his decision to ban kids under 6 from his restaurant! Wish more would take that initiative. I ate in a nice place one time and there was a table with 5 adults and one kid around 2. The kid proceeded to make all sorts of loud noise and disturbances and the adults just acted like HE WASN’T EVEN THERE! Well, everyone else knew the kid was there, that’s for sure, and it’s disgusting to see this where a parent won’t even tell the kid to lower his voice or just plain SHUT UP! You can be sure I will be a patron at ANY RESTAURANT BOLD ENOUGH TO CARE ENOUGH ABOUT THE REST OF US AND BAN KIDS!
I waited tables some years ago at a fairly casual, family-owned steakhouse restaurant. Some parents would come in with children and pretty much let them run free. Wait staff were walking around with plates of roast beef with hot au jus and pots and cups of piping hot coffee, and I was scared to death a child would crash into someone and be scalded. It isn’t just a nuisance for children to be uncontrolled in a restaurant–it’s dangerous to the children, the staff, and other patrons. The real problem, of course, is often parents, who don’t take a screaming baby out, or don’t make sure their children stay seated. I’m not sure the ban is the best remedy, but at least it’s getting people talking.