Market building vendors set forth major concerns
Photo by Kyle Green l The Roanoke Times
UPDATE 1:55 p.m.: Reporter Mason Adams has written more about the Market Foundation Board over on his blog, Blue Ridge Caucus. End update.
Today’s front page lead story by reporter Mason Adams is about a meeting that took place yesterday morning between vendors at the Roanoke City Market Building and the Market Foundation Board.
In case you did not get a chance to read it yet, here’s the story. I’d like to hear what you think about this most recent development.
Struggling to survive, vendors seek changes
By Mason Adams
The Roanoke Times
A little more than a year after the renovated Roanoke City Market Building reopened, its vendors are struggling to survive.
On Wednesday, a majority of the building’s food vendors told the Market Foundation Board, a seven-member body that sets policy guidelines for the historic downtown structure, that a combination of economic factors and restrictive building policies have hurt their ability to make a profit.
Among the vendors’ complaints: Restrictions on their ability to advertise on the building’s exterior; a policy that requires they remain open despite a general lack of customers on weeknights and Sundays; the board’s decision to introduce two new kitchen spaces, seen as extra competition; and a slow response time when it comes to building issues.
“June, July, August of this year have been flat-out bad,” said Charles Parkhurst of Firefly Fare, who spoke on behalf of the vendors. “Right now is the fall. This is it, right up to Dickens of a Christmas. If we don’t make hay, we’re going to have a lot of trouble in the spring making our bills.”
To continue reading this story, please click here.
September 27, 2012 - 8:48 AM
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Although the Market’s renovation got lots of raves when it was completed, to my eye they took a very unique venue, with a charming, historic ambiance, and turned it into another ordinary shopping mall food court.
It’s sterile, it lacks character and there is little reason to linger or hang out. There is no vibe to soak up. It has all the warmth of eating at a McDonalds.
The big plus of the Market is the vendors. Those business owners are hard working people who turn out some great products.
So how are they being treated? Bureaucrats impose requirements and restrictions that hurt the businesses – shame on them.
“…a policy that requires they remain open despite a general lack of customers on weeknights and Sundays…”
This is the main culprit.
It is as though the Market Foundation Board is setting up vendors for failure…so they can then get major chain restaurant franchises in the building, which is what they want ultimately.
“Well, we tried to have mom-and-pop vendors, and it isn’t working out, so we’re now welcoming a brand new [insert major fast food chain name here].”
I really don’t want McDonald’s or the like in the Market Building, but the Board should realize that the Market Building IS a breakfast and lunch haven for diners during the weekdays and not so much for evenings and weekends. That’s what it was, and what it is. If there are vendors in the building who can offer dining during the evenings and weekends in a profitable manner to them, then all the power to them, but the Board shouldn’t expect all vendors to be 24/7 (actually closer to 14/7).
I feel the renovation lacks warmth and atmosphere. It appears undone…which of course it is, what with the empty center booths which I assume are coming down if not already. (I am not there much, as it just doesn’t have the appeal it used to have.) Having vendors inside the building stay open late is ridiculous, as there are scads of dinner places all over downtown. I feel the powers-that-be have taken away the charm, that they are trying to make that area into something it can’t be. (Taubman???) I know that when I enter the market building, I initially feel like it’s a project that is stuck and cannot move forward. It’s very sad. The renovation was totally necessary but the design is a total failure. Personally I feel like the image of our downtown area is being altered to pander to a certain crowd…it’s great to see the area becoming so popular but we are a Southwest Va city…we don’t need to change who we are. The market building has been ruined and the vendors are the ones that will suffer the most, the residents of Roanoke next.
I don’t come downtown for lunch unless it’s a weekend. If I come downtown for dinner, and plan to deal with parking and such, I’m having a more formal meal-not a “fast casual” type meal that the vendors provide. Stop trying to make the market building something it isn’t. Let them be pare down their hours to fit their clientele and keep them around, rather than force them into failure.
I am unimpressed with the atmosphere of the new Market Building and the food available does not compare as well to that which they had before the renovation. I have been in the food court once and have not been back since. The Market Foundation Board should manage the building and use of the third floor and get out of the vendor’s business. So far, it seems that the Board’s micro-management is the Market Building’s biggest threat to it’s success.
The City of Roanoke can, and will, ruin anything it has a hand in/on.
The newly renovations were needed, because of all the rats that had taken over this building and the upgrades were needed as well. Yet, the final renovated look is too boring. You walk in and look around and leave. There are no frills, and nothing cool to visually make this a vibrant place to hang out. Get Creative Roanoke. If you desire the market building to keep the crowds, spend some money on some artistic styling. Suggestion: Mount some interesting lighting or laser light show inside the building at night, so people will come to watch the lights. Also, improve on the look, because it is not completed. It’s just an original sterile building. The venders and telling the board members, by their lack of success, that the market building is not working. The Venders are seriously crying for help, because they are under water. There is nothing visually neither fun nor cool about the market building on the inside. It’s just like the Taubman museum, nothing on the inside to keep you coming back. The inside of the market building needs mood lighting. The market building is the center of Roanoke, but it lacks design features to hold a crowd. It needs some major styling to embrace crowds and keep them coming back and hanging out. Other suggestions are have live musician, jugglers, performing arts skits, poetry reading, and comedy skits. The venders alone cannot alone keep the crowds coming back nor hanging around.
I work not too far from this location and rarely if ever go there. I think parking has so much to do with access to some wonderful eateries and shops in downtown Roanoke. Sometimes as I am going through downtown and the market area, I want to stop real quick and get a treat or run into a shop to see what they have on display. By the time you circle the block several times, you feel you might as well move on. I think it would help if some of the eateries would consider delivery at least to offices in the downtown area. I would love some of the food court items for lunch but on some days I either don’t want to walk or don’t want to deal with finding a parking space. I work at the RHEC and so I get in my car and go the direction of eateries off of Orange Ave where you know you can park your car quickly and not waste a lot of time searching for parking. I really don’t know what is in the court. How does one find out?
I went into the building a couple weekends ago for the first time in YEARS. I remember eating there on field trips as a child and how it seemed so much bigger with so many different offerings. What happened to all those vendors? Why does the place appear so empty, sterile and sad?
We dined at Firefly Fare and it was delicious. I was happy to support a local business while getting healthy, delicious food. I enjoyed some coffee outside on their little patio, too, and it was great.
Inside, however, things were just … weird. I didn’t know where to go when I came in, I didn’t know what was there, what the empty slots were in the middle of the room. There was NO ONE there. Literally – no one. We bought some pastries at the little shop across from Firefly, then we went upstairs.
It’s really unfair of the board to make these people stay open when they’re not getting any business. If the majority of their business comes from the lunch or breakfast crowd, they should be able to focus on that. They’re just losing money staying open any later.
What would make me want to come there more often? More options and a friendlier environment. The place is so bland.
I agree with the others regarding the sterile environment. The building used to have that great neon star in the middle and it just felt warm with the wooden tables and benches.
The first thing they need to change are the hours – even small restaurants in large cities are typically not open past six and many close after lunch.
But the real culprit remains the continuing construction downtown.
While I am glad they are looking to build that hotel downtown, I fear that it will just kill the businesses on that end of the market.
It is amazing that anyone is still downtown, because the city had done just about everything possible to make it difficult to stay in business.
3 years of road closures around the market area is enough.
These things are what were forecast way before the market building was renovated and leased for more “food operations”. No retail has been added to the downtown area in years…there are simply not enough people to support the 8-10 new restaurants that occupy this space. Adding more kitchens is ludicruos. Adding “event space” in the middle has been tried in the Taubman with no success. The massive renovation expense of the Market Building would never have taken place by an independent business person..the result would never have been able to support the cost. Disruption of traffic and parking by continued construction in the heart of our city is straining everyone to the breaking point. All this was brought up to the DRI two years ago but to no avail. They didn’t listen…they did what they wanted. Listen and learn. Maybe the butterfly museum will be our “build it and they will come” savior!!
It really seems as though the Market building board has done a very poor job of determining a vision for the future of the Market that also respects the history of the Market building.
I really, REALLY hope that the actual motives are not to pull in the EZ Button of national franchise vendors. Unfortunately, that follows exactly the pattern that so many city planners choose for their downtowns.
I agree w/ many/most of the sentiments written above, well done Tony, Donut Miser, and Deb! The Market Square Bldg. just isn’t anywhere close to what it was, neither the look or the quality of the food. I’m not going to sit here and slam the individual vendors, I admire and respect them for putting in the HARD work it takes to run a restaurant. On the other hand there just isn’t anything we’ve eaten in there that has impressed us. The Asian place still has decent food but we have other Asian places we like better. The new Cuban place can’t hold a candle to the old one…which was my go to place. All Sports is good but we live in Salem where there is an All Sports w/ their full menu. No more Greek food, no more sushi, no BBQ; it’s a mere shadow of what it was. And what a shame, it was so nice to have available when you had several people in your group. You could go in there confident that everyone would find something good that they liked…
These are simple fixes. The hours of operation should be optional. No national chains? What if 5 Guys wants in? Of course we should let them.
And Beth Deel….what has she ever completed beyond a sentence. Or should we say Ed Walkers sentence?
Dear E. Price: To see what is available in the Roanoke City Market Building, go to its website here:
http://citymarketbuilding.com/
You can see a Roanoke Times profile of all the vendors, along with a video, here: http://www.roanoke.com/food/frontburner/wb/297284
I continue to hear people say there’s no parking in downtown Roanoke. Besides what has been blocked by construction, there are still a lot of pay lots, parking garages and on-street spaces. To see an interactive map of parking options, go here: http://www.downtownroanoke.org/parking/parking-map-and-information
I usually drive around until I find a place to parallel park, and typically I don’t have to drive around for very long until I find one. But I don’t mind walking a couple of blocks. On a related note, I recently learned that kids are no longer required to know how to parallel park in order to pass a driving test. That COMPLETELY blows my mind.
Taubman would be great for blackjack, Roulette, Craps and such… Market building is perfect for Slot Machines and that middle stage is perfect for the new car spinning around that someone can win!!
That would bring people to Roanoke. Fill Hotels, Fill Restaurants, Create a need for Retail! Maybe then people would even stop by the Butterfly exhibit and fish tank at the Square!
On a recent Sunday evening we watched as several school buses pulled up in front of the Market Building and off-loaded about 300 students from Roanoke College. This was about 6:45 p.m. and not one Market Building vendor was open. They had all closed by 6:00. A stage had been set up by the city for music and announcements. We found out later that not one vendor in the Market Building had been informed that there would be 300 potential customers let off in front of their main doors. Somebody dropped the ball.
I don’t see how the city gets away with NOT renovating that building…unless people who want a decently clean restroom and a rat-free environment count as a “certain crowd”.
But since turning that building over to the “foundation”, it’s been one false step after the other. They blew it completely with the Plowshares people – before the building was even opened. Why are they allowed to dictate the hours the restaurants are open? I know the Fork does a big night business because they have bands and things, as well as outside seating, but that might not be every vendor’s model down there.
It is kind of white and empty looking inside…the mosaics on the ground outside are colorful and attractive, but once inside nothing catches the eye.
Dear E. Price:
It not a bad walk from the RHEC to the City Market Building, plus it’s good exercise. No parking or driving hassle needed.
It really wasn’t all that broken, but Roanoke decided it had to be fixed. Now it is sterile and dead. I won’t be surprised to see it empty and boarded up in the not too distant future.
I was down there last week a little after lunch time. It was a ghost town, without the charm. It was beyond sad, almost desperate. Maybe they should consider using the upstairs floors to hold an open mic on Friday or Saturday evenings. It’s very popular with the teens and young adults, and perhaps that can translate to sales for some vendors.
It would sure be neat if it had a vibe like the St. Lawrence Market in Toronto, but I guess that’s not gonna happen! There is so much potential – it shouldn’t take much to have the outside vibe of the market spill over to the inside…
http://www.stlawrencemarket.com/food/
Here’s a Google Map outlining walking directions from RHEC to the Market Building…for those of you who work/live “on the other side of the tracks”:
http://goo.gl/maps/XcQo6
Total distance is 1093.78 ft approximately.
And *no* parallel parking involved!
Although I don’t miss the chilly winters of Virginia I do miss downtown Roanoke and the interesting shops, landmarks and people. I loved having a late breakfast or lunch in the Market Building. I threw a couple of parties in the upstairs ballroom when I was running V Magazine. From the photo, it looks a little sterile and bright. I definitely would have chosen another spot for that late breakfast (after a long night). I loved the dimly lit tables. Oh well. I’m not there to complain but I certainly enjoyed it when I was there. Hope all is well.
It needs a better vibe. More character. Less Sterile.
When I was a kid I used to beg my Mom to take me to the market building! It was a destination and we would always bring out of towners there. It was dark, it had those awesome benches, and the best part?
That great neon star on the ceiling! It was a kids dream!
Please bring back that star:)
Also, the way it is set-up now with the new layout, you can’t people watch from the second floor like you used to.
It feels very disconnected.
Take all that away and it looks like a hospital, its not festive or fun or special.
PS: its a darn shame that Zorbas and Burger in the Square aren’t there.
As many predicted, the city screwed up concerning the renovation. What used to be a cool place to eat lunch now has all the ambiance of a dentist’s office. They should have renovated only what needed to be done (such as the kitchen and food storage ares) and left the rest well enough alone.
I personaly am not a fan of most of the food that I have purchased there. Overpriced (im assuming to keep up with the rent that the city is charging) and low, low quality.
There are not alot of options- its a shame that Burger in the Square could not come back, nor Kims seafood. I think the city all along has wanted to have national chains in the building.
Donut Miser, you don’t even have to go to the “Pedestrian Bridge”. The MLK bridge connects RHEC directly to downtown.
Even if you did drive. Parking downtown is not hard. Do it everyday.
Yeah, I’m with Donut Miser — I was really wondering why someone working at RHEC would not simply walk to the market building. Takes about 5 minutes, short walk across the pedestrian bridge. Canont imagine opting to drive down Orange Avenue when you’re steps away from plenty of food options!
Living in Roanoke for just over a year, I continue to marvel at why so many don’t take advantage of the downtown offerings here. People would rather sit at their computers and type their judgments than go see for themselves, patronize their city’s independent businesses and help build the success of our city. Oh, and complain about the free street parking or $2 garage parking.
THE FOUNDATION HAS COMPROMISED THE BUILDING THE TENANTS AND THE FORMER TENTANTS AND TRULY DOESNT CARE, THE ARE UNAPPROACHABLE AND LET ME KNOW HOW THIS LEMON GUY AND BETH DEEL GOT ON THIS BOARD.
The vibe of the market building, post remodel, is o.k., in my opinion. More often than not, it is a pain to find free parking (I will not pay to park). The food nor customer service have not been outstanding enough to cause me or my family to return more frequently.
Our family recently went there after a downtown event, and found it to appear cold, uninviting, and uncomfortable. There is no character, no warmth, and no reason to go back.
LOL Bill I agree with you about Beth Deel, but she’s Mason Adams’s personal friend so he promotes her whenever he gets a chance.
This is such a shame. The market building vendors are doing everything right. I wish I worked downtown for Firefly alone, they are fantastic!
I hope the city wakes up and does right by the vendors and the customers/potential customers.
The tile murals outside the building are creepy. Ohhhh, the creepy eyes. Also, the tile mural of the butcher? The dead pig hanging there. Every time I see it I want a handful of Xanax not a hamburger.
tass @ 2:46 p.m.:
This is the second time you’ve alleged that Beth Deel is a “personal friend” of mine. The other time was in this Election Day post on the Blue Ridge Caucus, where I mentioned her tongue-in-check write-in campaign for mayor as a stunt that could pay political dividends if a bunch of people actually voted for her (they didn’t).
Other than the fact she’s a “friend” on my journalist Facebook page, what evidence do you have that she’s a “personal friend”? If it’s the Facebook connection, then I can also call Lt. Gov. Bill Bolling, Congressmen Bob Goodlatte and Morgan Griffith, Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, former Del. Chip Woodrum and a whole host of local and state government officials “personal friends” as well.
– Mason Adams
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, nobody gave a fat-rat’s-patootie about the market building until the GotRocks plunked a multi-million dollar museum in the back yard. Now everything is going under, museum and all. The farmer’s market will be the next casualty thanks to a short-sighted city council and the joke called Downtown Roanoke. C’mon, people, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!
Just allow the vendors to close around 6, if they decide to. The board members need to listen and stop dictating so much. Add some cool and fun atmosphere throughout the area, especially where you sit and eat. Check out the fun atmosphere, which the mellow mushroom restaurants offer. Here is video link of a fun atmosphere. We need to decorate and style the Market Building more. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOO4OoWWcOk&feature=plcp
For those of you who have not seen the inside of the Market building. I filmed this video when it recently opened. You can see if can still use some creative styling to the place. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfTOrK4W13E&feature=plcp
The redtape of Roanoke is part of the issue, but more than that, the downtown has no draw, no energy. Unless you’re heading there specifically to eat…theres nothing else to do in the late afternoons and evenings on a regular basis. No we’re not Ashville or Charlottesville & we shouldn’t compare oursleves to them as some do….for part of their huge downtown life is due to the major college presence. When we have a variety of stores open until 9 downtown through Saturday, with a Safeway or Giant foodstore, an Imax, and more plazas and commonspace that are well lite with possibly water features…then you create synergy virtually on a daily basis
First, the City should leave such things to private business. That is a big reason that it is failing. Like most of Downtown Roanoke City is failing. Now once again I must point out that in Roanoke County’s Downtown, Tanglewood, we let businesses decide what our downtown should look like. We have a mix of socio/economic hoursing/condos/rental proerty. We have a movie theater. We have 2 grocery stores (kroger an foodlion – not the mom an pop type grocery stores). We have retail and restraunts galore ! We have 2 hotels. And so much more. That is why we are better than Roanoke City’s downtown.
Second, The variety of food is not all that in the new market building. The atmosphere is a typical open mall food court, big whoop like that will excite anyone.
Third, YES PARKING IS AN ISSUE !!! I will never pay to park. That is the trouble with all of downtown roanoke city, NOT ENOUGH FREE PARKING CLOSE TO WHERE YOU NEED TO BE !!
Wow, someone’s awfully defensive. Sounds like tass hit a nerve. I saw an extremely quick response, but no denial. More of a politician’s retort of – ‘Prove it!’.
That’s pretty funny. I don’t care one way or the other, but it is definitely funny the level of sensitivity.
On the main, and recurring topic of failure of vision by Roanoke city leaders, if this is handled like the Taubman debacle, it will wither to a slow death over the next 5-6 years. All while the potential customer base is repeatedly insulting for ‘not getting it’ and adapting their preferences to the whims of a very myopic few.
Who selected the Market Foundation Board? To whom do they report? Are any venders on the board?
Roanoke needs to get over the mantra of “build it and they will come.” Consumers want more value for their money. Competition for eateries is high in downtown Roanoke. Honestly, everyone commenting on this thread have the same ideas, the Market Building is cold and boring. We have local restaurants that we’ve had before and their other restaurants are more inviting! Sad. I went there a few times but the prices are higher than the previous vendors and the charm is gone. I feel like a more community feel is needed there. The vendors pay high rent in that space and I think the Market Foundation should be responsible for finding ways to increase traffic, perhaps donating space from the third floor to some of the community programs that are now defunct, performing arts theatre, music halls, etc.
32 well-thought-out, interesting comments from interested Roanokers preceded mine in response to an article about the potential failure of the centerpiece of downtown Roanoke, and that’s the only thing you respond to even though you were the author of the piece. No, of course there’s nothing personal there, clearly.
I was born and raised in Roanoke and remember fondly going to the City Market with my mom to buy veggies and visiting the market building when it was a meat market. I was thrilled when they originally turned the market building into a place to eat and meet friends while keeping the historical beauty of the building. I have visited the “new” market building once when it first opened and was very disappointed in what I saw. Very COLD and Sterile. Nothing appealing at all.I have not been back since and do not plan to go any time soon
Most of your feedback states the primary problem with the market building that your article did not, which is the sterile, cold and uninviting atmosphere created by the “renovation”. How the City could take a vibrant, warm and thriving concept and totally destroy it is unbelievable. Upgrades and improvements could have been accomplished without changing the basic interior, and the middle kiosks were absurb installations from the start. To learn of the restrictions imposed on the vendors and the rental costs only adds further insult to injury. Not sure how the City will fix this one, if it’s even fixable. I am still angry about Victory Stadium, another short-sighted, bad decision.
MARKET BUILDING VENDORS, I SEE WHERE GOOD TIMES ARE AHEAD BECAUSE ONE FOUNDATION COMMITTEE MEMBER HAS POSTED ABOUT THE UPCOMING “GLOBAL CARDBOARD CHALLENGE” IN THE MARKET BUILDING THIS WEEKEND!!! PLEASE LOOK BOTH WAYS AND WATCH OUT FOR THE STAMPEDE OF PEOPLE FOR THIS EXTRAVAGANZA
i had a fabulous lunch today at Billys Ritz for what it would cost me to eat in the market building. Sit down meal, atmosphere, service, and the food was amazing…that makes a difference!! I would rather have that than the rushed feeling in the market building!
Re: Questions about how the Market Board Foundation is selected, check my post on the Blue Ridge Caucus here.
– Mason Adams
There is indeed a “perfect storm” brewing in and around the newly renovated market building. I fear there will be more businesses closing downtown, because there are just not enough patrons for all of the current businesses to succeed. When I started working there 11 years ago, I remember the farmers having to bring multible truck loads in because sales were so brisk they would run out of produce. Now, some week days it is like a ghost town for the farmers and you can see their struggles. Many large office buildings have been revamped into residential spaces and that greatly reduces the amount of bodies downtown during the day hours. The Art Museum was supposed to be the “draw” that would bring tourists in but the only day that happened was the free grand opening day. Businesses have struggled and some have closed while trying to work around the never-ending construction zones, such as the City’s Parking Garage that contributed to the closing of Trio’s, the City’s Market Building renovation that contributed to the closing of multible restaurants and retail spaces such as Seeds of Light, and now we have Center in the Square’s total makeover that contributed to the closing of the Weenie Stand, Thomas’s Market, and Little Dipper, not to mention the months of closure for Sumdat Market and the disruption of lunch business for Horizon Bar and Grill. In the best of economic times, it is hard to run and operate a small locally owned business, but add the mess of construction, people’s perception that there are parking issues, less downtown workers, and it becomes nearly impossible! My heart goes out to each and every business owner trying to make a living in our downtown. I pray that their struggles become less and they start making the profits needed to succeed! I will say to the market building tenants to keep voicing your collective concerns and voice them often and maybe the board will make some decisions that will have a positive impact on your bottom line. I read that Doug Waters believes that the Market Building’s extended hours have not been in effect long enough to warrant changing them and that he was still optimistic that people would start dining there for dinner and on Sundays. My question to Mr Waters and the rest of the Market Building Board is how many times have you and your families dined there for dinner and on Sundays since the hours were changed? I would absolutely love to hear your response and, hopefully, you have all been a constant patron, but if not…shame on each and every one of you!
I happen to know Mr. Waters from around downtown and he is a really great man. I’m glad to know that the market vendors have someone like him on their board because I know he is really invested in downtown and the area in general. I feel for the vendors. I work downtown in the restaurant industry and this has been a really difficult summer. We all have high hopes for the next few months, but like the article mentions, what happens when January rolls around? It’s sad to see all of these local restaurants (several that have been around for decades) closing their doors. On the upside, that will likely mean more business for the rest of the restaurants struggling to keep their doors open. :\
Why would anyone choose to pay $7 or more to park just to shop?
I’m slightly bemused by this emphasis on parking. Has anyone here ever left the Roanoke Valley and visited a bigger city? Sometimes you have to walk more than a block, if you don’t want to pay. Sometimes you have to pay a little for convenience. I’ve never paid more than $3 for easy convenient parking, but then I don’t seize at the thought of having to walk a little.
It’s difficult to have a genuine discussion about the future of an small urban downtown area when there are people who think proclaming either their cheapness or laziness poses some sort of virtue. Lord, my 16 year old son parks downtown every Saturday afternoon for a guitar lesson at Fretmill, and he looks at me like I’m nuts when I ask him if it was difficult to find a spot.
Sandy, I agree with you…the constant construction down there, for years, has posed a lot of disruption and probably turns a lot of people away.
There is plenty of parking for eveyone close to the market building if you pay. Many people avoid paying to park.Here is so info on parking in downtown Roanoke. Suggestion:http://www.downtownroanoke.org/_files/docs/free-weekend-parking.pdf Free Weekend Parking Downtown
Free All Day Saturday and Sunday
Higher Ed. Center Lot 101 spaces
Church Avenue Garage 857 spaces
Gainsboro Garage 358 spaces
Campbell Garage 353 spaces
Warehouse Row Lot 44 spaces
Williamson Lot 123 spaces
Elmwood Lot 172 spaces
Elmwood Park Garage 676 spaces
TOTAL 3,042 spaces
Free All Day Saturday Until 4 PM and All Day Sunday
(A parking fee is charged to vehicles exiting after 4 PM on Saturday)
Center in the Square Garage 203 spaces ($2 after 4pm)
Market Lot 52 spaces ($2 after 4pm)
Tower Garage 691 spaces ($2 after 4pm)
Market Garage (Church Ave) 468 spaces ($3 after 4pm)
TOTAL 1,414
It’s interesting that one of the issues mentioned is a lack of school bus traffic due to the renovations at Center in the Square. Looking at the vendors in the Market Building, I don’t see them having much to offer for school groups. Thinking of school age kids, would they choose Asian, Cuban, gourmet pizza, burritos, or local fare? Before the renovation, the big draw for young kids was Burger in the Square and Chico’s Pizza. Now there are not vendors in that style of cuisine or price range.
One other problem with downtown business is the shift of workers to telecommuting. Many of the people in my office and others now work at home all the time or at least a few days a week. Look at the affect it’s had on Friday business. Friday used to be one of the busiest times downtown. Now it is one of the most popular days to telecommute and downtown is pretty empty.
Mason, your referance answereed one of my three questions, but, again, to whom does the board report to and are there any vendors on the board? Thanks.
David, I can answer one more question: there are no vendors on the board.
Here’s the original story about the city passing control of the market building to Market Building Partners. It explains the arrangement: http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/264396
Like so many other government organizations in this country, those in Roanoke seems just as totally clueless as to what to build, how/when to do it, and how to manage it. They are just completely unaware they are making bad decisions, one after the other.
Having been in the area for only a few years, I can’t comment on what the Market Building (MB) looked like before the redo. The words I hear from so many people though is character, which the redo lacks today. There are so many things wrong with this redo, its hard to know where to start.
A simple one is the entry art work. What they did was to spend $60,000 on an out of state artist who put in something that has to be covered with heavy rubber mats every time it rains. What a complete waste. I’m going to guess we don’t get many MB visitors from that artist’s home state who come to see her work. What they should have done was offer each of the local high schools $5,000 each to hold an internal art contest and pick something appropriate from each grade level. Then place the results inside the building on the walls and around the area. There it would be seen by every visitor and likely would have been a draw for thousands and thousands of parents, friends, and family. Then every couple of years, repeat the process for new artwork.
I believe the original plan included the 4 center cubes as locations for a farmers market like produce area. What a joke that was, as they failed to notice things like “where do they park their truck, how do they restock, what kind of mess would carting produce in and out cause”. That’s before you consider the issue of rent…
This past week I spent an hour eating a late lunch with a visiting relative in the MB. There were few people inside at the time, but I was amazed at how noisy it seemed and how “boomy” the acoustics were. I don’t think anyone every considered that hard floors, hard walls, and hard ceiling must might yield a non satisfying acoustic environment…
Before the redo the MB was a combination of food and retail shops. Now it’s a sterile food court with no retail. I believe they thought all the former tenants would just jump at the chance to return after their multi-year construction that disrupted everything downtown and eliminated a lot of parking spaces directly around the MB itself. Many had since long found another home and decided to skip the higher rents there and the cut they have to give the city to be there.
Now we have a big problem for the current vendors who are on the edge of throwing in the towel. The cities response is a little like dealing with a water dam. The facility is damaged, leaking badly, and about to collapse and ruin everything. The cities answer is to do more construction while it leaks and drill more holes so it can leak even more. Needless to say, completely wrong. Just clueless…
While not a resident of Roanoke, I do occasionally visit the market area. I’ve been in the market building three times since it completed renovations and have found the food to be mediocre and the prices extremely high. The decor or lack thereof, doesn’t really bother me. As someone said in a previous post, you can get a far better meal in a nice restaurant for about the same price. The only reason I would visit the market building now would be for a stop at Bayou Snowball. Maybe the problems besetting the vendors are not just due to the decisions of the board, but also due to price and quality.
@Lindsey…I read the article about the Market Building Partners that you posted above and I can’t seem to get past this comment…”Waters said the group will employ strategies that build revenue and make the building a landmark destination to bring more people to downtown Roanoke”. I mean, it sounds good, but here we are more than a year later and already the vendors are rallying together begging for change so they can make a living. Not only that, but on the front page of your newspaper there was a picture showing ONE customer eating lunch in the upstairs section of the Market Building. I would think that if the vendors are saying that the last three months have been “flat out bad”, this “board” would be doing all they can to assist them and bring about positive change. Instead, they decide to tear out the empty kiosk and have a mini construction zone in the middle of the first floor dining area and build two more kitchen spaces, bringing even more competition to the already suffering vendors!!! Seriously, there seems to me a real disconnect here!! And speaking of the kiosk that were never rented more than for one month early on…if the “board” could not lure one person to rent a very affordable kiosk on a month to month basis, then something is very, very wrong. Gee, anyone could have tried it for a month or two and only be out the cost of the rent, but they didn’t. Such a shame those hard working vendors have to pay the price for inexperienced management!
I personally like the “new” market building. Half of the vendors have restaurants in other areas of town so maybe the duplications wasn’t the way to go. My favorite is firefly fare since it is organic and I know what I am eating. I don’t mind paying extra because 1.I didn’t fix it and 2.I know it is healthier and probably cheaper if I bought the same ingredients to prepare the meal myself. The building itself may be a little drab but I don’t get caught up in the building itself as much as the quality of food…hello Texas Tavern
Love the outside atmosphere on the Cuban restaurant/Fork side of the building – great food and sometimes really popping atmosphere, so I think the exterior renovation has been a success in that it has utilized previously ignored space and those wonderful overhangs.
Miss, miss, miss the old vendors, (everyone go buy food from Zorba in Salem!)
but really enjoy FF, Habana, Fork, and Euro. The others are also strong, just not my usual style.
Our city has a great heart and it is evidenced in the café culture emerging on the Habana/Fork side of the building and the good food these people are serving!
However, the interior is atmospherically mediocre and all the glass is totally insensitive to the cleaning people who have to keep the smears off of it.
My beef for years has been (and I would love if someone could answer this) is:
Why did we have to get rid of the beautiful neon sculpture that used to be in the center of the building (I know the building is totally different shape-wise now but that sculpture was such a treasure you would think it would be worth working around…
And
Why did we get rid of the lovely Swedish-style block furniture that used to be in the building and what happened to that furniture? It contributed to the warmth of the interior.
When I eat out, I often eat at the MB. You should too!
Oh yeah — and as per an earlier poster’s comment, if you work at RHEC, you shouldn’t worry about parking because you can WALK downtown:-)
Sixty Three comments and counting. It seems this article has struck a chord. And it should. The Market Building is a big part of downtown and should be of concern to anyone interested in Roanoke. I posted the first comment here a couple of days ago. I used the words “sterile” and “warmth” (lack of) to describe the Market and many posters agreed, as those two words showed up many times in the subsequent comments.
Many people seem angry at the way the Market was redone, several have gone on to generalize that everything, or most things being done downtown are wrong. But wait a minute.
I’ve spent time in quite a few downtowns in the eastern half of the USA. In far to many cases, in towns and small cities, the downtown business districts are dying. Shops are closed and boarded up. Faded “for lease” signs hang in dirty windows. Some call this the WalMart effect, where major suburban stores draw people away from the downtown shopping districts. Whatever it’s called let’s note that it is not the case in Roanoke. In downtown Roanoke, things are happening. There is revitalization and construction projects. Yes the construction can be a pain (mess, lack of parking, business disruption) but at least they are doing something. Both private and public projects are ongoing before our eyes, and that is a very good thing – even if many of us, do not like every part of it. So we have the Tubman, the Patrick Henry, the Medical School, the Center in the Square, the Market Building. Important things are being done. Yes there are many complaints – but perhaps that is the value of a forum like this one. Perhaps some of the powers that be might be reading this discussion. Who knows, some might even consider what we have to say. So lets make ourselves clear.
You know, last night I did some shopping and then had dinner. While at the Valley View Mall I passed by Cheddar’s Restaurant. There were perhaps 20 people on the sidewalk outside the restaurant waiting to be seated. I wasn’t one of them. Instead I went to Red Jasmine, a local, independent restaurant in Vinton.
A few people here mentioned the idea of chain restaurants in the Market Building. We can debate all day long which is better, but there should be little disagreement on why they are different. Chain restaurants (like Cheddar’s) are popular because they are familiar. We’ve heard of them, we’ve been to them, our friends have been to them, and we can go again without surprises. We know what’s on the menu, what it will cost, what we like and how it will taste. So if Five Guys opens under a bridge somewhere people will seek them out despite the questionable location. But that is not the case with an independent – especially the kind of small independents that occupy the Market. At least initially, the restaurants themselves are not the draw, the place is. That’s why the redo of the Market was so disappointing to so many.
I remember the first time I was in the Market Building. It was actually my first day in Roanoke. My wife and I wandered into this really cool place. It had a worn but charming old time atmosphere and it was buzzing with people. We looked at each other and said – you want to eat here? So we tried something from the Greek place and then something form the Cuban place and when we were finished we were talking about returning so that we could try the burger place and the pizza place and eat again in such a neat atmosphere.
The Market Building itself has to be the draw. Wandering around, sitting at a table, soaking up the ambiance has to be a big part of it. Only then will the restaurants have a fair chance. Only then will someone have the opportunity to discover how great Euro Bakery is, or how delicious the items from Firefly are.
Lets assume for the moment that the people in charge of the Market are not evil masterminds that want to see the destruction of Roanoke. Lets assume they are not clueless. Lets assume they have, and will continue, to put their best efforts forward. I do not like what they have done with the market, but I applaud them for trying. Apparently, from the tenner of comments on this thread they have not done the best job. Apparently, from the evidence of the far more important dollars and cents that are not flooding into the market, they have not done the best job. But here is precisely where wise leadership is needed. Anyone can pilot the ship in calm seas. It when a storm hits that you prove you abilities. The Market Building is a historic cornerstone fixture of downtown Roanoke, and right now it is clear that it needs – and deserves, better. Lets see who steps up and starts correcting the course.
James. Don’t know how you can call roanoke co any better then the city. Tanglewood is dying and has been that way for a long time!!
david –
Lindsey got one of your questions, in that there are no vendors on the Market Foundation Board. One of the discussion points last week was better communication between the board and the vendors, including the possibility of having a vendor rep on the board.
As to your other question, about the board reporting to someone: I don’t think they necessarily report to anyone except the groups that appoint representatives to the board (the city, the Chamber of Commerce, DRI, etc). This is not like the Planning Commission or other Roanoke boards that are appointed by the city council; in this case the city appoints only one person to a multi-member board. Instead, this is a board of directors for a non-profit foundation.
– Mason Adams
Ate at Fireflys recently and found the food to be mediocre, tasteless and overpriced. Our order was incorrect and the attitude of the woman who took our order was unpleasant and irritable.
Perhaps checking yourself before blaming others for your poor sales might be a good idea.