Solving the Italian restaurant equation
It's time to get geeky about the subject of pizza. I'll start by posting this geeky picture of myself. The Roanoke Times l File photo.
Southwest Virginia has no shortage of Italian restaurants.
Whether you’re in the mood for a casual sub and pizza shack or a sit-down dinner with candles and chicken Marsala, it can easily be found here. I feel as if I am always reporting news of a new Italian restaurant (Mirko Pasta, Leonore’s) or editing a review of an Italian restaurant (Toscano’s in Radford last week, Luigi’s in Roanoke this week).
Sometimes readers suggest that there might be too many Italian restaurants around. When my colleague Amanda Codispoti reported in late June that Leonore’s would soon open in downtown Roanoke, reader Tass wrote “Pastas … Pizzas … Subs … Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…..” and reader P. Jenkins wrote “Just what Roanoke needs…another pizza joint.”
Still, I don’t see an inordinate number of Italian restaurants closing, so there must be a demand for this cuisine. Some folks are apparently on a mission to find the BEST Italian restaurant in Southwest Virginia. Consider an email I received from reader Ray McKee a while back:
“A friend and I find ourselves on a mission to see if there may be a PIZZA in Roanoke, or its surrounding areas, worthy of being considered the ‘Holy Grail.’ Neither he nor I are from this area, but from places where Pizza Hut’s, Papa Johns’, Domino’s and the like really don’t exist…and if they do, there rarely survive the pridefully owned mom and pop joints,” McKee wrote. “Does such a place exist? Is one to be found in a back alley, or some obscure street that one would never think of traveling?”
To McKee’s question, I am frequently asked who has the best pizza in Southwest Virginia. And my answer is usually the same: “It depends.” Yes, that’s a pretty squishy answer, but allow me to explain my theory on this: Pizza is an incredibly personal food. Everybody likes it, but everybody seems to have his or her own criteria when it comes to the best. Some like thick crust (Chicago- style), some like thin (New York-style). Some like sweet sauce, some prefer it savory. Some like a chunky sauce, others a smooth sauce. And I haven’t even started on the cheese and toppings, not to mention the fact that pizza is just ONE factor in the quality of an Italian restaurant. What about the cheese steaks? The subs? The entrees? Oh my!
I was brainstorming last night and thought, “Hey, perhaps we could apply an equation to this problem.” This is rare, you guys. I never, ever voluntarily consider doing math. But maybe to determine the best Italian restaurant, we’ll have to be math nerds. For example, what if this is the equation:
Sauce (20 points) + crust (20 points) + pizza toppings (10 points) + calzones (10 points) + subs (10 points) + bread (10 points) + entrees (10 points) + service/ambiance (10 points) = 100 possible points.
Aha! Before we proceed to test this equation on our favorite Italian restaurants, I’d like some feedback on how I broke it down. How would you change the point system? Is there a factor I did not include?
Italian food, and pizza in particular, is a very serious food subject. Very serious. And do you know that I’ve never actually started a debate about pizza in the 5 years I have been covering food? Gasp! Now is the time! Let’s get this pizza party started.
October 16, 2012 - 11:24 AM
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I had pizza from Leonore’s a couple of weeks ago and thought it and the salad I ordered with it were both very good.
The service was good, ambiance meh, but that’s not what I was there for anyway.
No restaurant can come close to my homemade pizza.
Italian’s my favorite, and I wish we had more places open for lunch. Specifically, I wish Luigi’s would open for lunch.
My only issue with the metric above is that I would assign the entrees as many points as sauce. Or, alternatively, break out pizza components and ratings entirely.
Hey Lindsey! I think that you did good w/ trying to find a way to grade Italian food restaurants! I thought of 2-3 small changes/ideas but once I thought them through I think that what you have done really covers it all. I look forward to putting it to the test!
@ Kristen, so are you saying you would omit pizza toppings from the equation and make entrees worth 20 points?
In my opinion what separates a good pizza joint from an okay pizza joint is the sausage. A good pizza joint has to have sliced italian sausage as an available topping.
Also, a good italian restaurant is totally different from a good pizza joint. I might occasionally get an italian entree from a pizza place, but I never, ever, ever get a pizza from an italian restaurant.
Peter J, I agree wholeheartedly with your sausage comment.
Italian food is the primary ethnic ‘comfort food’ in the US since the 1940′s, when soldiers returned from Europe.
Even before then, the Italian immigrants made their names well known in northern US cities and in microspots throughout the country.
There is a huge difference in an Italian restaurant and a Pizza restaurant. This equation really convolutes and confuses the two.
A Pizza place does just that, and little focus is placed elsewhere. In an authentic Italian restaurant, pizza comprises a small minority of the sales. The two are quite different.
If we’re talking pizza, then calzones & lasagna & penne a diavolo & veal marsala & manicotti & even bruschetta are NEVER considered.
Pizzeria Uno, the location where deep dish pizza was invented – you think they care about penne ala vodka?
Rao’s, the most famous Italian restaurant in NYC, you think they care about Pizza Marguerita, THE classic pizza?
Rhetorical.
Either it’s a pizza place, or it’s an Italian joint. Almost none in the US maintain an equal balance. It’s like being a premium Steakhouse that also specializes in great sandwiches. You don’t go to Primanti Bros or Geno’s for a ‘sit down meal’ and you don’t go to Gene & Georgetti’s or Peter Luger’s for their sandwiches & appetizers.
One thing not on your list is price. Sometimes the decision is made to sacrifice a little quality for a better price point. There’s a great pizza place in Vinton that I would order a pizza with the works on all the time if I had an unlimited budget! Of course it is not the only key element and maybe should not be much of a factor but I believe it needs to be in there somewhere.
Lindsey, I am the friend from Ray’s comment. While pizza is very personal as to what a person’s particular tastes are there is still a formula for a great generic pizza. Lets just talk about a basic cheese and pepperoni. Where I grew up there are a number of small local franchise and stand alone “mom & pop” pizza joints. The thing that they share in common is they have distinctive tastes about the pizza as a whole and its individual components. The cheese is gooey and has flavor. The sauce can be tasted (sweet or robust tomato) and there is an ample amount of it. The pepperoni also has a good flavor and still stands out amoung the sauce and cheese. Then the crust not too thick but not cardboard thin and finished to just the right amount of crunch on the top edges & bottom, but maintaining a soft interior. Also the crust should have a MILD saturation of grease from the pepperoni topping. Where I grew up I can think of at least 6 or 7 establishments that can make such a pizza. So far in this area I’ve yet to find such a pie. Most of the samples I’ve had offer little difference in taste from the individual components to the box it came in
Lindsey, I would make pizza its own little sub equation.
Entrees (20) + (crust+toppings+sauce)(20)+ Calzone (20) + Subs(20) + Bread/salad (10) +Service/ambiance (10) = 100
Amen PeterJ. The first time I saw “sausage” represented by little rabbit pellets all over the pie, I was shocked.
A few ideas for bonus points:
+5 if they look at you like you’re an idiot if you ask for pineapple on your pizza.
+5 if two people are arguing loudly, in Italian, in the kitchen.
+5 if you can’t carry a “large with everything” with just one hand.
+5 if there’s so much cheese in your calzone you have to wrap it around your fork with your knife as you stretch it out.
+10 if you clean your plate, and the owner comes over to make sure you’ve had enough.
Pizza at Benny Marzano’s in Blacksburg is incredible. All should check it out if they haven’t in search of great pizza!
Benny Marconi’s downtown near the market is by far the best pizza in Roanoke. People may be skeptical given the size of a slice, but every bite is delicious. In this case, it’s not a “bigger is better” argument– it’s legitimately great pizza, which just so happens to be gigantic. And when it’s really good, bigger is better.
As far as a good Italian restaurant, I’ve yet to find one in this area. Everything tastes like it came from a can or a box. There seems to be no place that truly uses fresh ingredients and a light hand when making Italian entrees — most use sauces that are far too heavy, items are cheese-laden and lacking in authentic Italian taste. I would love to see a more modern, light, and fresh take on Italian food (such as Tosca or Filomena’s for those familiar with DC spots.)
I haven’t tried Mirko yet, but fingers crossed that maybe they can offer something new.
I had high hopes when Frank’s announced their Williamson Road location. Unfortunately, this restaurant is consistently inconsistent. Nothing is ever made the same way twice, and usually not in a good way. One more mayonnaise-drenched sub or nothing-but-a-bowl-of-lettuce antipasto and I’m voting with my feet.
That’s a good picture of you:)
OK, I see what you all are saying about it being difficult to judge an Italian restaurant and a pizza place using the same guidelines.
I move that we make this about pizza only and come back to the other stuff later.
Although I do think a good pizza place ought to have good subs, as well.
So what’s the equation for pizza, then?
I think the best pizza round here is Mickey G’s in Floyd
An equation for pizza? I’d say it should begin at as much as 40% for the crust. It is impossible to make a good pie with bad crust, while you almost have to try to make a bad pie with good crust.
Sauce and cheese should both merit 20 points each. It is possible to make an outstanding pie with just those two ingredients atop a good crust.
10 points should go to the toppings. Mostly because there is so much difference of opinion when it comes to this subject. I like anchovies, most people don’t. The only criteria should be that the toppings are of good quality, and in sufficient amount.
5 points should be considered for the heat. While most local places just use typical Blodgett gas-fired ovens, there should be a reward to the place that goes to the effort to get a little char on the crust and some bubbling action on top.
The final 5 points should be awarded for atmosphere/ambiance, even though that can be different from person to person. I like dim, loud little joints with minimal decor (bonus points for cheesy, pardon the pun, old Italian restaurant cliches, like straw-wrapped Chianti bottles), where the pizza cook is so into his groove that the place could be on fire and someone would have to lead him out like a horse from a burning barn.
Good pizza is all about the crust. Why? Because the original Italian intent was NOT about heavy sauce, extra cheese, and tons of salty meats.
I’ll give Chicago their deep dish pizza, just as I give California their fruit laden pizzas. I enjoy both, at certain times.
That being said, here is MY style of pizza. Wood fired oven. Thin crust blackened on the bottom from the heat. NO SOFT CRUST!!!
As for the sauce & toppings, less is more. I want a LITTLE tomato sauce, flavored with garlic. I want a LITTLE cheese that is real, NOT the kind that comes from a green container. I want herbs, and if there is meat, I want it to be less than the cheese.
Where does that leave me in SW Va? Making my own pizzas on the grill. Coming in at probably 1/4 the calories of a ‘delivery’ pizza, and 1/8 that of boxed ‘frozen’ pizza.
I agree the crust is the biggest factor in the pizza equation. If you think about it, the restaurants with great pizza crust also often have great sub rolls if they are homemade, too.
I’m big on the sauce, though. I think it merits more than 20 points.
I’d make the equation for pizza 30 (for crust), 20 (for sauce), 20 for cheese (no skimping on the cheese for me), 10 for toppings, 10 for ambiance and 10 for value.
I agree the cooking method is important, but I think you figure that within the crust and cheese scores. The reason I’d give toppings 10 points is for freshness, size and amount. Howard and I got a pizza recently that I believe had 3 pieces of mushroom on it.
Bill makes an excellent point when he mentions price, hence the points for value.
I ditto everything Crooked Road wrote.
Lindsey… Are you craving a good ‘ole sub?? You keep going back to it. hehe.
I like thin crust for pizzas and calzones. I really to enjoy homemade. Sadly the pizza I usually end up with is from chain stores. I would like to find the real deal somewhere local.
I’m still looking for a good pizza place in the Roanoke area.
Like others, I don’t think of pizza when I’m thinking of Italian food.
So, I’m going to agree with Liz first (love my hubby’s french bread pizza), and crooked road.
Good column, btw.
do the readers from roanoke remember the villa sorento restuarant on patterson ave. joe and rose made the best pies! davis pizzas were good too. i can’t say much for whats available out there today. i make my own using only choice, fresh ingredients. the process is time consuming but rewarding. my cost is @ or less than these sub par pizza joints charge. bills’ pizza in greensboro is worth a try.
Best Pizza- NY Pizza and subs in Vinton.
Best Italian Restaurant- Sal’s on 460 east near Bonsack.
Benny Marconi’s does have excellent pizza. Great crust. I tried the pizza from Geonetti’s/Frank’s when it was downtown and was not impressed at all.
Too many Italian and Mexican places. Watch Food Network and you’ll see what we lack – casual, reasonably priced modern Amerian. We need new riffs on comfort food.
I was at Dogtown in Floyd last week and liked their pizzas…wood fired with a thin crisy crust. They had a mahi pizza with basil/garlic sauce as a special and we gave it a shot…I’d never have imagined fish on pizza, but it was great.
Pizza dough is really just a form of bread, so it’s all up to your imagination as to what you put on it.
And here’s a random side note about pizza: In my opinion, the best way to (almost) restore leftover pizza to its original glory is in a toaster oven. I don’t know how I ever lived without a toaster oven.
On a semi-Italian food related note, I tried out something I’d read from a poster here on this blog. Someone posted about putting cherry tomatoes in the blender and buzzing them to make a pasta sauce, then baking it over the dish in the oven. Our cherry tomato plants were the big winners this year, so I did this 2 or 3 times to use them up. I put a few aside to quarter, put the rest in the blender with basil and a few garlic cloves, then poured it over pasta before putting it in the oven. It made a light, fresh-tasting sauce – a BIG hit in my house.
This is an awesome recipe for a great gluten free, carb free pizza crust! We made a few up last week and they were delicious!
http://www.onegoodthingbyjillee.com/2012/08/the-astonishing-cauliflower-pizza-crust-you-have-to-taste-it-to-believe-it.html
I agree with you on the toaster oven, Lindsey. I use mine all the time. I love that mine automatically shuts off when the time I’ve programmed it for is up too. It’s saved me from burning cornbread a few times.
Restore leftover pizza? Cold pizza is one of the great joys of life. Or is that only in Bachelorland?
I like cold pizza but my husband thinks it’s a waste. So I eat it when he isn’t around sometimes, but he has also sold me on using the toaster oven, which makes the crust a little crispy and the cheese bubbly again. Microwaves suck for this – they make the crust rubber.
You can’t microwave pizza…either has to be cold or heated up in some legitimate fashion. I usually use my broiler because I don’t have a toaster oven.
Try reheating leftover pizza in a frying pan on a low/medium heat setting. Gotta’ keep an eye on it to make sure the bottom doesn’t burn, but doing it this way is a whole new taste experience. The method works best on thin crust pizza. Thicker (pan) crust tends to burn on the bottom before the top and toppings are warmed enough.
I’ll be trying the cauliflower pizza recipe that Salemite sent in. Sounds interesting and I like cauliflower. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it at the downtown farmers market. Lots of broccoli but no cauliflower.