Weiner Stand, group conflict over terms
Melissa and Gus Chacknes. Photo by Rebecca Barnett l The Roanoke Times.
By Lindsey Nair
The Roanoke Times
More than five months after the Roanoke Weiner Stand left the downtown space it occupied for almost 100 years, the restaurant owners are in disagreement with Center in the Square over which party is responsible for completing the interior at its new location.
Weiner Stand co-owner Gus Chacknes said he only agreed to sign a lease for the new space because he thought it would be “turnkey,” meaning he would not have to pay for equipment hookup and other finishing touches.
But according to Center in the Square President Jim Sears, the organization and its contractors — architectural firm Spectrum Design and Thor Construction — met their responsibilities to the restaurant by August.
“Center in the Square had a commitment to keep the Weiner Stand and to do what we needed to do to keep it a viable operation,” Sears said. “But that did not include doing things the tenant had a responsibility to do.”
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October 20, 2012 - 10:41 AM
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How much could a couple of 220′s cost? Sounds like this marriage is off to a rocky start.
Apparently nothing ever is Jim Sears and Center in the Squares fault. What happened to the Little Dipper, and the last I heard Thomas’s Market was not returning due to the cost of the build out. Ron Cronise the renovations project manager is not going to cricise Jim Sears who is essentially his boss. Did he not even think to ask about 220 wiring? The Weiner Stand will have lost at least 6 months of revenue with winter coming. Most businesses would not survive this. The disregard Jim Sears and Center in the Square for small busineses in downtown Roanoke echoes the same disregard the City of Roanoke also shares.
The weiner stand has been in that location for nearly one hundred years. The weiner stand shuts down to accomadate Center In The Square that is spending 27 million on this project. Ron Cronise has been in construction for 40 years. (Whoopie). Did I mention the weiner stand was there almost 60 years before Mr Cronise was born? He says he has never seen anyone work as hard as CITS to accomodate RWS. Are you kidding me? Customers can go to the market next door to use a public restroom. What a nice guy you are Mr Cronise. (Project mananger) you guy’s are special.
Why is Center in the Square scared of the Weiner Stand?…..They seem to be trying to squeeze them out every chance they get.That hot dog business has been around longer than any of these “artsy” paople.Roanoke is not artsy so stop trying to make it so..That Hot Dog Stand makes more money than the Center n square does every year so LEAVE THEM ALONE.
Is the fight over the outlets what’s keeping it from opening? Surely it’s in the best interests of the owners to get the outlets in, open for business, and then fight about who foots the bill.
I would like to see the Roanoke Weiner stand leave Roanoke City and relocate in Roanoke County
Note to Center in the Square…after 100 years, it is not just Gus Chacknes’ Wiener Stand. It is a Roanoke institution. You decided to make them move, so you are ultimately responsible for making sure they can reopen. You and the Center are about to be hit by the PR equivalent of Hurricane Katrina. You might want to bend over just a little more backwards for your own benefit and help the Wiener Stand get back to business. Roanokers are a lot less forgiving of overzealous institutions these days after the closing of Mill Mountain Theater, building of the Taubman and the renovation of the Market Building.
I am not sure why Center In the Square would not have planned to put in 220 grade outlets. I don’t think there is a lot of restaurant grade equipment that doesn’t use a 220 outlet. Or for that matter any major retailer’s equipment. Did Center in the Square install 220 outlets in their facility? Hope the fancy coral reef aquarium doesn’t blow a fuse…
Lindsey, I may be wrong about this, but I believe that an eatery that has food served on site is required to have restrooms on the premises. The Weiner Stand’s situation is a bit different than the one’s that are inside the market building, so it would be necessary to have servicable restrooms inside the establishment. You could probably find whether or not this is factual with a phone call. If this is the case, the restrooms must be finished before the tenants move into the building.
It is disgraceful how the Weiner stand people have been treated. Center in the Square, you should be ashamed of yourselves for making them move in the first place. The Weiner stand is more of a local treasure than your “square” will EVER be. People need to really support the Weiner stand once they reopen and boycott the “square”.
A couple of notes:
1. Reminder: I don’t approve comments with name-calling. If you are unable to express your opinion without resorting to that, then try harder.
2. Vickie, good point. I did check with the health dept and the Weiner Stand can operate without the bathroom under the code and current circumstances (the bathroom next door).
Also, I don’t think the 220-volt outlets are as big of a hang-up as the bun warmers.
A complete list of equipment to be used in the restaurant should have and probably was given to the architect during design. If the Weiner Stand is using a piece of equipment the designers didn’t know about typically they, the Weiner Stand, would foot the cost of installing it. That’s normal procedure on any construction project.
Did the old Weiner stand have restrooms? If so were they just for the staff? I never saw them. Of course I work downtown so I usually get hot dogs to go.
This is the most depressing thread, ever.
It’s a shame that these TWO important Roanoke institutions are battling one another.
Center in the Square is vital to our downtown. Major renovations such as the current one cause problems, plain and simple, it’s unavoidable. Under no circumstance was everyone going to be happy.
The RWS has a loyal following, they should have been handled more delicately.
Also, side note, the City also doesn’t run the Market Building. They couldn’t have “given” them a temporary location if they wanted to.
Another side note: the rent for CITS ground floor space is cheaper than the Market Building. Simple research.
@Original Greg, I was told the old Weiner Stand did not have public bathrooms. According to health department regulations, restaurants MUST have a bathroom for the employees, though. The employee restroom at the Weiner Stand is complete. It is the public restroom that is at issue.
This entire situation is ridiculous. I am a Roanoker who moved away about a decade ago, but visit often. I can tell you I always make sure to visit the Weiner Stand, but haven’t set foot in Center in the Square since I was on my 5th grade field trip to the Science Museum. Clearly you can tell which one is more important to me. My boyfriend, also a native Roanoker, has said from day one that, for some reason, Center in the Square is trying to push the Weiner Stand out. I told him he was crazy, now I am not so sure. I would suggest that those responsible for this project give the Weiner Stand what they need to get opened, or the “New” Center in the Square will start off with a lot of people not very happy with them.
The problem would seem to be a gas hookup, not 220. These two need to get it together and solve it.
However, as opposed to AKC, I haven’t been in the RWS for decades and I have been in the Center many times during that period for some great stuff. Pretty depressing that somebody finds the mediocre hot dogs at the RWS more valuable than what the Center offers.
If bun warmers were OK at the old location, it just does not make sense that moving them 300 feet would make any difference.
@ David, I was told the difference is that the code has changed since those bun warmers were installed at the former location decades ago. They now require a safety pilot.
About the unfinished rest room. Will the restrooms for the regular CITS tenants be finished? If so, why the difference?
I’d like to hear a new downtown restaurant owner (or maybe several) compare the Weiner’ Stand’s site with their sites.
@ Matt, what do you mean by “regular CITS tenants”?
CITS is a joke! What was once one of the best things to happen to downtown Roanoke is now trying to tear it apart.
Can downtown really survive another epic CITS related screw up? MMT, TMoA anyone?
James, you are way off base here and your comments are based on a faulty premise. CITS is merely a landlord to the cultural organizations that inhabit their building. Without a landlord there is no tenant. So CITS had NOTHING to do with any of the difficulties of MMT and the Taubman. If MMT hadn’t had such an understanding partner in their landlord (CITS) they would have probably shut down operations long before they did. And you bring up the Taubman? The Taubman chose to LEAVE CITS and go it on their own. CITS space wasn’t good enough for them and they wanted their own identity. The Tauban is a completely separate organization that merely rented space from CITS. I think we all see the result of their bundle of bad decisions and misdirection as you point out, but don’t put that on their landlord. And now to the Weenie Stand. CITS has gone above and beyond the call of duty to accomodate a business that has had documented financial difficulties in the past and ones that have been covered by this newspaper. CITS has paid for tenant improvements that NO LANDLORD would have agreed to do. And for that they are exonerated by uninformed Roanokers who don’t want to be confused by the facts. I would take the Weenie Stand business over today if I could assume the deal they received from CITS…..anyone who understands business would. They received royal treatment as a result of their place in downtowns history, in spite of their less than stellar business accumen and mediocre product. They will have THE BEST retail space on the market when the project is completed with direct access to the soon to be created outside plaza with ample outdoor seating. And their rent will be less than the unfortunate businesses who are suffering through the current Market Building woes. What is CITS’s reward for offering this opportunity to the Weenie Stand? A kick in the teeth by folks like you and a biased article in the RTimes in my humble opinion. Jim Sears could have said plenty about this situation in the article but he has too much class to resort to the tactics used by one of his tenants. As the old saying goes “No good dead goes unpunished”. We are very lucky to have Jim Sears and the new building that will soon be a showcase for our arts and cultural institutions. If mediocre hotdogs and frozen french fries are what’s important to you though, you’ve got plenty of convenience stores to choose from.
The real issue here is not mediocre hot dogs (they are not) and frozen french fries (they are) but the fact that to some people this is a Legendary place. Johnny is a legend himself and it is shameful that better plans were not made by CITS to have this rectified. I know Jim Sears and he is a super leader but to me as to many others the RWS is far more important than CITS. Let’d get this fixed. “Somebody’s gotta be next”.
To some people RWS is more important than CITS? What intelligent logic. And you suggest that CITS should resort to poor business practices and treat them even more favorably than they have any other of their tenants? Some people think the Mill Mtn. Star is garish. Let’s just tear the darn thing down then. Wouldn’t want to go against what “some people” think now would we? This is s simple business issue that the owners took to the media to illicit an emotional response. Ignore the facts if you wish.
I hope it all works out for both the RWS and CITS. I think they both deserve prosperity in the downtown area. However, to say the dogs at RWS are better than mediocre is like saying the chili at TT is great! You get what you pay for and for a buck or two that’s not much.
Thanks Ole Jack, Johnny will like your comment. I know Johnny (dad) will be happy when he gets back downtown.
Still Learning my husband and I were not trying to “illicit an emotional response”!! This is our livelyhood we are talking about here! Obviously you are “close” to Dr. Sears as you have mentioned things here that have not been made public so perhaps this is an emotional issue for you as well. My husband and I have a family as well as long time employees to support. If we had known this is how things were going to be we would have left the CITS 2 years ago when we had the chance. We have struggled for months just to make ends meet. My husband has bit his tongue for a long time about this situation and he reached his limit. So many people ask when is it going to open and why hasn’t it. We felt it was time to share our story. Sorry you feel we were trying to get an emotional response regarding the oldest restaurant in Roanoke.
Melissa, my comments were an opinion based on what I read in the paper and what I have learned from living in a small town. There is nothing in my post that has not been publically discussed in the RTimes; absolutely nothing. I certainly hope this is worked out quickly. It’s just my opinion that in a $30 million construction project stuff happens, and lots of it is nobody’s fault. The city can’t be faulted for enforcing building codes whether the average joe agrees with them or not. CITS can’t be faulted for construction delays out of their controll, especially when from a landlords perspective they have negotiated a favorable deal as was profiled in the RTimes story. Your establishment certainly can’t be faulted for being upset and fearful for your current situation. But flaming it publically serves no purpose in my opinion, and that’s what this blog is all about, people’s opinions. But meaningless opinions such as whether a hotdog stand or a $30 million arts and cultural institution is more important to downtown serves no purpose. I feel for your situation and wish you nothing but a speedy recovery and much deserved success in the future. But for now I don’t see how this tactic has helped.
One of the major issues that RWS and employees have with CITS is that upon signing the lease Mr. Sears told me that it would be turn key, we would close May 5th and open May 7th. About a month after signing the lease Jim Sears called a meeting with me to talk about compensation because he realized that it wasn’t going to be turn key. A couple of days after the meeting Jim Sears and I had another meeting and he said the center could not compensate RWS. He then told me my long term employees that had been there 57 years, 52 years, 25 years, and 10 years can just draw unemployment which is only a percentage of their income. We have all been struggling and in jeopardy of loosing our homes all because I believed the words of Jim Sears who is my landlord. The way I was raised a man’s word means something and I trust people. So if I would have known then what I know now I would have never signed this lease and put my employees in this situation for 6 months.
The Roanoke Weiner Stand IS Roanoke. Quit pestering long time local businesses and just do the right thing. It’s nice to have, but you can stuff you’re snobatorium Center In The Square, and that Artsy Fartsy Taubman Center!
Roanoke is soooo bassakwards!
Sounds to me like some people didn’t read their contract. I don’t care if the restaurant is 500 years old, if the owners didn’t read the contract then it’s their fault. Plain and simple. I do not have on iota of sympathy for the owners of this hot dog stand. And like the previous poster said, flaming them on a blog will not help. At all.
30 million dollar arts and cultural institution? maybe but the only tenants will be elementary school students. that is all I have ever seen go in there. worked downtown for years and all I see is bus loads of kids go in there. now while this is good for the kids, not a whole lot of paying customers. did Roanoke really need this right now? curious….
What the heck is CITS going to put in the Wiener Stand’s spot anyway?? It was a poor choice to force a Roanoke landmark out of their spot to start with…..all of the misfortune that has followed is simply KARMA. Unfortunately, the RWS has to bear the brunt of it. I truly feel for the owners and staff of RWS who have been out of work due to the broken promises and poor business choices of CITS. Boooooooooo!!!
Honestly the issue besides the financial struggle is the history. My husband’s grandfather and grandmother started this meager hotdog stand in 1916. In the very same spot we left, the place the ticket office will be. They tried to buy the building but they sold it to the city and it became CITS. The family remained loyal to this spot and ALMOST made it 100 yrs. My husbands family owned the 202 building in the 80′s and decided to stick it out with CITS. I have only been a part of this for the last 12 years but I can tell you that people are serious about it. The Chacknes have been a part of this community for the past 100 years.
The weiner stand is a landmark! They should have never made them move in the first place! In forcing them to move, they should be responsible for doing the right thing and getting the equiptment and set up right. Get it together! This is a small family owned business, not a corporation that can afford to be out of commission for months on end. Do the right thing Center in the Square!
It’s terrible that people are so offended by CITS and their very existence. The fact of the matter is, CITS provides beneficiary support and services for more than just “artsy fartsy” organizations.
The Virginia Museum of Transportation, The History Museum of Western Virginia, The Historical Society of Western Virginia, The Harrison Museum of African American Culture, The Science Museum of Western Virginia, Opera Roanoke, The O. Winston Link Museum and various other organizations.
Center is a vital part of each of these local cultural non-profit organizations, many of whom would be in dire straits without such services. They are a catalyst to preserve Roanoke’s history, increase cultural awareness, and promote the arts.
I wish both parties a speedy and amicable solution.
I don’t think the majority of people don’t dislike the CITS as much as they dislike Mr. Sears and his cruddy attitude. He is trying to push them out and hopes this does the trick.
Mr. “Still Learning”, you are just what your name emplies. “still learning”. Everyone has an opinion. What makes yours any better than mine. I don’t understand business. But I’d rather support the small business man than support Mr Sears and CITS. Yes, I would rather have a “good” hot dog than support CITI and those like YOU.
And Dannel if your “wisdom” would prevail Lord forbid, we will be known as a former Railroad town with a neon star and a hotdog stand. What a bright future that would be for your children and mine.
Still Learning, My children are probably older than you. I wish your children well in they’re future. BTW, The railroad town, the star, and the hot dog stand have suited me fine for many year’s. I don’t beleive you could have handeled it. If you want to see a fish tank, go to Walmart. If you want a good hot dog, Meet me at the weiner stand on Brandon ave. I’ll buy you one. Your children, my grandchildren, and my great grandchildren have a rough future ahead I think. They’ll probably wish they were in an old railroad town eating a hot dog.
Still Learning, Johnny would love to serve you the RWS hot dogs.
Correct me if I am misunderstanding something, please. But, did the RWS not receive a beautiful renovated space as a result of this? I walk past there everyday and it is certainly a far cry from the old restaurant.
Also, if the warmers were not up to code, then they are not up to code. Isn’t it feasible to assume RWS would have had to have done that work eventually anyways? Say if there was a repair done that required a city inspector? Would it be CITS’s fault and responsibility then?
I’m not opposed to change, and Center in the Square surely needed one. Did the Roanoke Weiner Stand? Absolutely not – I can name few businesses that have been successful for 100 years in downtown Roanoke.
It seems to me that CITS is trying to be bully and force them out. I understand they want some sort of nice restaurant on the roof, but those are a dime a dozen in downtown Roanoke. We already have Frankie Rowlands, Alexanders & Metro… and when I take my kids to Center, I want to take them some where cheap, quick, delicious and convenient. Tada! The Roanoke Weiner Stand.
Mr. Sears – give Mr. & Mrs. Chacknis what they are asking for and move on. You have already inconvenienced them, downtown, and the citizens who are going to make your museums work enough already.
Well said Jennifer. Mr. Sears work things out with Gus now. My question to you Jim Sears. Why did you want to fix something that wasn’t broken?
what do most of these comments tell you. Roanoke cares more about it’s small business than the so called museums. most of them are probably struggling. this is more of a small business town than an “art” town. if this keeps up people will boycott the CITS from the bad press alone.
And he will lauramae. I have eaten there regularly for 28 years and will continue to do so when he reopens.
I have a question for Melissa, in the article it says Mr. Webber, who did the hookup for the bun warmer was told several times that he needed a permit.
Do you know if that is true? If it is, that can’t be blamed on CITS.
I’m not trying to come down on you or your family. I hope you will be able to open soon.
Hope to see everything worked out soon and the RWS get back in operation.
Once Mr. Webber finished his work the city inspector and Ron Cronise told him he need to pull a permit. When he went to do this he was told since he had preformed more than $1000 worth of work he needed a contractor’s license. We were under the impression that the work would be covered under Thor as Mr. Cronise was unable to find anyone who could do the work. I guess we were wrong.
Was Mr. Webber ‘certified’ to do this type of modification? If he was, tell him to submit you a bill for $900.00 and then tip him $1100.00, then tell the city inspector to go pound sand…….
Sounds like Mr. Webber didn’t do all of his homework.
Get over it! … The big boys are just trying to bring some culture into roanoke…. Share a little of what other cities have to offer.weiner stand… Still there….I’m excited for change! New influence, things I don’t know about….tHe south is so closed minded…but I guess that opinion is from the 80′s…. Lol…