More from Godsey on property taxes
Tripp Godsey
Columnist Dan Casey had a column today on 21st Senate District candidate Tripp Godsey’s “I believe” statement on property taxes.
Here’s the statement from Godsey’s site:
“I believe…
That Property taxes are fundamentally wrong and cannot be reconciled with the right to own and control our own property. The existence of property taxes, no matter how altruistic the motives for spending the tax money are, means you never actually OWN the property being taxed. You buy the property and then must pay government “rent” for the privilege of “owning” it until you sell it or government takes it from you for not paying your “rent” to them. The right to ownership of property is fundamental to freedom and must be restored if we are to be a society of free individuals.”
Although Godsey apparently did not talk to Casey for this column, I asked him about it during a phone interview last week that resulted in Thursday’s story on his stance regarding school choice.
I didn’t have room in that story to get into the property tax issue, but had planned to perhaps use portions of that interview for a future story.
However, since the issue came up in Casey’s column today, I thought I should go ahead and put this material out now.
Godsey reiterated that statement on his site, about how his big concern with property taxes — and real estate taxes in particular — is that a homeowner can never truly own their property if it can be taken away for failure to pay taxes.
“I look at the elderly,” Godsey said. “Their property is paid off, but they retire and they’re on a fixed income, and now they have to pay taxes and could lose their homes.”
Since so much of local government revenue comes from real estate taxes, however, I asked how they could make up that loss if those taxes are eliminated.
“There’s waste and fraud out there that can be eliminated,” Godsey said. “Also services that can be privatized.”
He said that fire departments could be privatized and cited examples in Knoxville, Tenn., and Elk Grove, Ill.
“They privatized their fire departments and there’s a lot of money being saved,” Godsey said. “The same thing goes for trash pick up or leaf removal. There are a lot of services that can be run more efficiently by a private company.”
He also said, in a roundabout way, that he favored user fees over general taxes.
“It was brought up to me the other day by a buddy of mine that’s single and said he’s paying all these taxes, and he doesn’t have any children but he’s paying taxes that go into the school systems,” Godsey said. “If you don’t need leaf removal, then you shouldn’t be needing to pay for leaf removal.
“I think private enterprises are more efficient because it cuts out a lot of the bureaucracy the government brings into it. It’s a lot of bureaucracy.”
So there you have it. Maybe those aren’t the same responses that Godsey would have given Casey, but that’s what he told me when I asked him about that statement on his website.
– Mason Adams, staff writer
August 7, 2011 - 10:40 AM
Godsey nomination=Edwards victory.
Godsey is so right about all these issues. He knew Casey would try to bushwack him, so he didnt grant the interview. It is rediculous that when you buy property you must pay taxes in order to keep ownership. That means you dont really own it. I guess its sort of like your children or about anything else in this authoritarian govt. If they dont like the way you are raising them they can take them at will. If a sticker expires on your car, they can steal it at gunpoint.
He is also correct that private enterprise is usually better at most things. I guess when it is your own is money involved, you care a lot more than when it is the taxpayers, so you work more efficiently. Govt. employees tend to be more lax, and the system itself is more cumbersome than most private buisness.
Privatize fire and rescue. Check. Privatize water, sewer and garbage removal. Check. Those great schools that will sprout up under the Godsey education plan? Private schools of course. Double check. Highways and streets? All private and toll operated. Check. While we’re at it, let’s get rid of those freedom robbing income taxes. Heck, you can get put in jail for not paying those taxes. I’ll give Mr.Godsey an A for candor and an F for having any qualification whatsoever for public office.
,
“let’s get rid of those freedom robbing income taxes.”
Now we are getting somewhere!
Godsey says he promised to uphold the US and Virginia constitutions. Yet the Virginia Constitution says there will be “real and personal property taxes.” Dang. These constitutions are pesky things. As conservatives, we get mad when Democrats are hypocrites about the constitution now Republicans are doing the same.
At least we are being warned! Edwards looks better by the second. Let’s get rid of the ignorant politicians who want to help people escape their responsibility to this nation. Funny how they can all see so clearly how wrong it is for poor people to get a free ride all the while working hard to give one to everyone else.
Wonder if he even realizes how many got wealthy and maintain it by purchasing tax default property?
That good ‘ol standbye, “waste and fraud” what a jokester this hack is.
I must say that Team Godsey seems to be imploding. Just in the past week Tripp Godsey has struck out on education and property taxes, and he has stood up the Chamber of Commerce by being a no-show at their forum. What a week. I thought it was bad in Washington.
Mr. Adams, since you seem to be one of the few people with whom Mr. Godsey will speak, perhaps you could ask him the following questions and post them here. Here they are:
Is Mr. Godsey seriously equating leaf collection with the constitutionally required provision of a free elementary and secondary education to every child in Virginia?
Is Mr. Godsey’s school choice program to help poor families really just a ploy to let them choose which schools they will pay these new “user fees” to after he eliminates the centuries old practice of property taxes?
And Sandi, there is another choice other than Edward’s failed tenure in the senate. Dave Nutter is the RIGHT choice.
Like Michele Bachmann in the Presidential race, here’s hoping the Republicans nominate a lot of Tripp Godsey’s for state legislative and us congressional seats. Then we can dispose of this tea party notocracy once
and for all.
7.”That good ‘ol standbye, “waste and fraud” what a jokester this hack is.”
So you think it doesn’t exist?
If Mr. Godsey says there is waste and fraud out there, it would seem he knows it to be true. And to know it to be true would require knowing where it is. So, why isn’t Mr. Godsey going to the police to report this waste or fraud? He obviously knows it is there–and he seems to know it is there in a quantity great enough that, if eliminated, would remove any need for property taxes. So if he knows for certain it’s there and is not pointing it out specifically to all of us, then he is aiding and abetting it. So which is it, Mr. Godsey? Can you prove that there is all this waste and fraud and you simply have chosen not to identify it to the authorities? Or are you just spouting an empty talking point that sounds good but for which you have no facts to back it up? Show the fraud and waste you think should be cut. Be specific. If it is there and it is as you say it is, no one will object to what you point to, since no one in their right mind wants their money wasted or fraud committed. So this should be easy for you. Lay it out there for all of us.
Roanoke Times Likes Property Taxes
Please see blog item:
http://roanokeslant.blogspot.com/2011/08/roanoke-times-likes-property-taxes.html
LB Hagen, RoanokeSlant
“I look at the elderly,” Godsey said. “Their property is paid off, but they retire and they’re on a fixed income, and now they have to pay taxes and could lose their homes.”
Presumeably they’d still like the cops and firemen to show up if they need them. Would they just be billed a la carte?
Property taxes have zero to do with whether or not your house is “paid for”. It’s about absorbing local services, which you do whether or not your house is “paid for”.
Do people seriously buy this?
Here is a good list. Go down it and see how many libs cut the mustard.
http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Article/MSN-2683-Leadership-Management-23-traits-of-good-leaders/?SiteId=cbmsnhp42683&sc_extcmp=JS_2683_home1>1=23000
Run, Godsey, run!
“Property taxes have zero to do with whether or not your house is “paid for”.
But it does have a lot to do with retaining possession of your home. Try not paying yours and tell me what happens.
The only reason to use property taxes instead of sales taxes to raise income is so the government can confiscate property if needed. If you hold the property hostage, people have to pay the taxes.
And the local newspaper acts as the government’s mouthpiece in supporting the tactic. Any word on the war with Eurasia?
#10 We know it exists, Jack, but EVERY politician says they’re against it. So what?
Well, Obama is always talking about all the things he inherited from George W. Bush, now he can add another thing to the list – a AAA+ credit rating. OOPs, looks like we don’t have THAT anymore. Everyone said Obama would go down in history – looks like they were right!
This credit downgrade is just another Republican tempest-in-a-teabag. Currently under investigation both in Europe and the US for their role in the 2008 financial meltdown responsible for trillions of dollars in bad debt, S&P isn’t credible to rate anything. The SEC should shut them down.
DD–did you read S&P’s report on why they downgraded? Pay attention to page 4 and then tell us whether or not you think Obama deserves blame for this.
Once again, the Liberals on this blog and Dan Casey are making assumptions and putting words in the Tea Party (and their candidate’s) mouth. NOWHERE that I have read, both on this column and on Casey’s hatchet job Sunday has Tripp Godsey been quoted as saying he would lobby to eliminate property taxes. He simply expressed his opinion about them, and frankly, they make perfect sense. But nowhere did he say he would propose to eliminate them. Perhaps Dan and the Libs need to pay more attention to what IS happening in Washington, and quit whining on what COULD happen. Seen any hatchet jobs on Tim Geithner and his assurances that there was NO chance the US would lose it’s AAA rating? Or that Obama stated ON VIDEO before the 2008 election that if he could not turn the US economy around in 3 years, his would be a “one time proposition”???? Why are we not hearing the Libs on this blog comment on those? Crickets!
John – I will have to Google it later, but why is Obama NOT responsible for this economy? How long does he have to be President before HE is responsible? And what about Geithner’s assurances that there was no way the US would lose it’s AAA rating? THIS is the guy you want handling our country’s finances? You’re kidding yourself.
Godsey is right, there is almost always another way, that however does not make it a better way, the right way or the way we should go.
What is it in people that make them think they can reinvent the wheel and it will roll smoother?
Waste, Fraud and Abuse are a candidate’s best friend but there just might be a reason that once elected the crusade is over.
Godsey is toast IMO, and good riddance.
“S&P isn’t credible to rate anything”
Apparantly Wall St and the rest of the world think they are pretty credible. And really, why should a Country that borrows 40% of every dollar get a AAA rating.
“tell us whether or not you think Obama deserves blame for this.”
There was a sign on Harry Trumans desk that Obama needs to heed.
“The Buck Stops Here”
Godsey is running on a platform he believes in, and he deserves to be able to run on that platform without having Liberals lying and trying to put words in his mouth. His message is clear, even if you don’t agree with it. Just because some people have a bully pulpit doesn’t mean they can misconstrue the facts.
Yeah this administration gave S&P a LOT of credibility when they wanted to use the threat of a downgrade as a hammer to push through a budget based on more spending and entitlements. Now, because S&P has said outright that the budget plan passed by the US does not show a credible plan to balance the US budget long term, now Geithner and Obama want to say S&P is not credible. It’s like a kid who wants a new bike for Christmas, but doesn’t get one because he has misbehaved – he crosses his arms and says “I didn’t want a new bike anyway”.
Some interesting reactions today:
Lars Hagen of Smith Mountain Lake apparently thinks I should *not* have posted Godsey’s remarks. I can’t tell whether he thinks the “Roanoke Times free contribution to a political campaign” is for Godsey or for Nutter, though.
And I had a Republican source call me last week and ask, “What does the Roanoke Times editorial board have against Dave Nutter anyway?” I guess the logic there is that the more the RTEB weighs in against a particular Republican, the better it is for said Republican’s chances in a GOP primary.
– Mason Adams, staff writer
“RTEB weighs in against a particular Republican, the better it is for said Republican’s chances in a GOP primary”
Wow, if getting attacked by the left makes you a more viable candidate on the right, maybe I oughta run.
#28 I don’t think the tea partiers will like Dave a lot. He’s a fairly reasonable guy and he voted for The Mark Warner tax increases.
Dublin Dawg
Of course Godsey has a perfect right to run for office on whatever platform he chooses. And when I (or others) believe that platform is ill informed and displays a total lack of knowledge of how state and local governments work and represents a philosophy that is incompatible with the best interests of the voters, we have the right to point that out. He does not deserve to be allowed to advance those ideas without taking criticism for their shallowness and lack of thought and/or knowledge.
dave – the fallacy in your logic is that Dan and the Liberals on this blog, have given the false impression that Godsey supports repeal of property taxes, which is a complete lie. Do you really think someone running for public office would open that Pandora’s box? Give me a break
“I don’t think the tea partiers will like Dave a lot. He’s a fairly reasonable guy and he voted for The Mark Warner tax increases”
Is that an endorsement? Or are you guys just scared to death of the Tea Party. They are a joke remember? According to you guys after last election they were done. Get used to it, they are Americas future! I predicted a huge win for Nutter….but it may be way closer than I thought, his signs are everywhere.
By guys – would love to stay & chat but MSNBC is on with the “Rev” Al Sharpton – running down to Bojangles for my dinner, then a quick stop by the farmer’s market for a slice of watermelon – will check in tomorrow. Have a good evening!
“have given the false impression that Godsey supports repeal of property taxes”
I wish he would!!
Dublin Dawg
The fallacy in YOUR argument is that I said anyplace that Godsey would push for repeal of property/real estate taxes. He does clearly say that he is opposaed to them on the basis of principle and that he believes they can be replaced by cutting waste and fraud ,privatizing many services, and making others fee based. It somewhaty defies logic to believe that he would advocate for theses ideas in his campaign and then not attempt to act upon them if elected. Case in point: The no compromise
tpers in Congress.
#34 Nice stereotyping, DD. No surprise coming from you, though.
BTW, I STILL haven’t been bowling this summer. Are you continuing to hallucinate seeing me at the bowling alley?
dave – you just confirmed my previous comments. You are speculating what Godsey will do, which is B.S. Game, set, match!
“But it does have a lot to do with retaining possession of your home. Try not paying yours and tell me what happens.”
Jack, I have no problem paying for services I use. I don’t need free-loaders in my neighborhood and people who aren’t interested in paying their share of local support services are just freeloaders.
I bet property taxes are really low in, say, Somalia. Maybe people who don’t like paying them should leave.
“The only reason to use property taxes instead of sales taxes to raise income is so the government can confiscate property if needed. If you hold the property hostage, people have to pay the taxes. ”
RWers heart freeloaders.
This blog gets more disgusting by the day!
You’re right Sandi so why don’t you leave.
gdad – what are you talking about? I love Bojangles chicken – any law against that? Or are you just throwing out racist accusations again? What a joke.
“I don’t need free-loaders in my neighborhood”
Does anyone care what YOU need? And your neighborhood is back in Jersey where you belong. And there are zero freeloaders when it comes to property tax. They simply take your property for non payment, even if the value of the property is 100 times the value of the amount owed. I call it “stealing”….
“Nice stereotyping, DD. No surprise coming from you, though.”
The reason stereotyping exists, is because there is a lot of truth to it. A truth that lefties who view everything through a PC filter can’t fathom.
40.”This blog gets more disgusting by the day!”
LMAO, oh brother. Calling this blog “disgusting” is really funny. Especially since I know where you’ve been.
Kristen – no one is suggesting getting public services for free. But I would prefer to pay for the services I use (water, sewer, garbage pickup) and not have to pay for services I do not use. What’s your problem with that? Or do you Liberals just want a free ride, and let everybody else pay for services YOU need, but they do not. Now who’s a free loader?
Kristen is from Jersey? Figures – bet she’s kin to Snookie LOL
Jack, if you can’t afford your property taxes perhaps you’d be better off renting.
Godsey could support the repeal of gravity if he chooses. It doesn’t matter.
“But I would prefer to pay for the services I use (water, sewer, garbage pickup) and not have to pay for services I do not use. What’s your problem with that?”
I’d prefer to pay for environmental clean-up and subsidized child care. I would prefer not to pay for a single bomb. What’s wrong with that?
No one’s interested in what you’d “prefer”. There’s no right to having what we’d “prefer”. You’re welcome to prefer it all you want, but don’t expect it to matter.
#42 And you go to the farmer’s market at night for a slice of watermelon? Suuuuure, DD. Of course you do.
Wasn’t night – it was late afternoon – and we have several farmer’s markets in the area. They got cantaloupe also if you’re interested.
Snookie uh, I mean Kristen – If health care providers can agree to a cafeteria style health care plan, what makes you thing municipalities couldn’t? That’s the problem with you Liberals – you are happy with “business as usual” just like that crew you have in Washington. That’s your problem. See ya on the Jersey Shore……
46.”Jack, if you can’t afford your property taxes perhaps you’d be better off renting.”
I have actually thought about organizing a “tax strike” right here in Roanoke. Look at how they freaked when people paid the car tax late. Imagine if 10,000 homeowners just didnt pay, or paid months later. Then, we could dictate our terms to the City. Then of course they would have to pay attention to what we “prefer” wouldn’t they?
Since the market can’t go much lower, it will probably finish up today. I can hear Obama now – “See, I told you we are in a recovery. This whole S&P thing was overblown. We are in a “summer of recovery”.” What a joke!
“Or do you Liberals just want a free ride, and let everybody else pay for services YOU need, but they do not. Now who’s a free loader?”
If liberals pay no property taxes and get a “free ride” while “everyone else pays” for their services, then the obvious solution is for anyone who is against property taxes to become a liberal.
Reality: a liberal with no school-age children pays taxes that support local schools just as much as a conservative with no school-age children. Your property taxes support local services for the community you live in, maybe you benefit from some of them directly, maybe there are some you don’t use, but your friends and neighbors do. I’m pretty sure that what you use vs. don’t use and what your taxes pay for are not determined by political affiliation in any way.
VT Hokie – well, duh. It was what we call a “hypothetical question”.
“I have actually thought about organizing a “tax strike” right here in Roanoke”
Yes Jack…I’m sure you command the respect of thousands. Good luck with your “tax strike”. I think you’d be better off just moving to Somalia…not much danger of getting too many services there!
“50.Snookie uh, I mean Kristen – If health care providers can agree to a cafeteria style health care plan, what makes you thing municipalities couldn’t? ”
Gomer, I mean Dublin Dawg,1-”municipalities” aren’t retail operations. You can go from United to Anthem if you don’t like United’s premiums. On the other hand, if you live in a house you’re limited to paying your prop taxes to that particular local government. No choosing. I’m sure there are places you can live that offer no public amenities whatsover and you can pay the local guy under the bridge to take away your trash.Why not find a RWnut paradise of that sort and go live there? Happy trails!
2- Spending priorities are set by elected officials. If you don’t like the way your tax dollars are being spent, find a candidate who thinks the way you do and work to get him elected, and good luck with that.
#49 Comment by Dublin Dawg — August 8, 2011 @ 6:09 pm
DublinDawg
“Since the market can’t go much lower”. I seem to recall the DJ was under
6800 in March of 2009 before the Bush slide was halted by the stimulus package and the auto bailout. So what informationm do you have to support the contention that “the market can’t go much lower”?
dave – I didn’t mean it COULDN’T go much lower – unless it is at zero, it can always go lower, obviously. I meant that yesterday it fell drastically – the odds of that happening two days in a row I would think are slim – therefore it will probably go up and Obama will take credit for it. Are you REALLY that obtuse or is it just an act?
Kristen – you obviously didn’t read or else you can’t comprehend my post. It has nothing to do with private vs. public companies etc. The question (and I’ll say this vewy, vewy s-l-o-w-l-y) is what makes you think a municipality would not entertain the idea to look at other ways other than the status quo to raise revenues? Now did you get it? Don’t demonize Godsey just because he might have some new ideas to bring to the table.
“I’m sure you command the respect of thousands. Good luck with your “tax strike”.
Hey, with Obama in, everyone will be on strike. They will be too broke to pay, which is what happened with the personal property tax.
“If health care providers can agree to a cafeteria style health care plan, what makes you thing municipalities couldn’t? ”
Yes, DD, you did. Tough to lie about what you say when it’s in black and white 3 inches up.
“It has nothing to do with private vs. public companies etc.”
Yes, it does. You specifically compared “municipalities” to private insurance companies.
“…what makes you think a municipality would not entertain the idea to look at other ways other than the status quo to raise revenues?”
Gee…like what. Sell vegetables? Rent out local officials to pass hor’s d’oeuvres at parties? The way governments raise money is fees and taxes. Period.
Type slowly for yourself. I don’t find you hard to understand…you’re far from complex. Wrong, but not complicated.
“They will be too broke to pay, which is what happened with the personal property tax.”
I actually pay my prop taxes, JackM..sorry you’re too broke to pay them. All my friends do too, but then I don’t have out with deadbeats.
Kristen – your last post made no sense at all. Perhaps you should get someone to read them for you before you hit the “send” button.
Let me try and say this in a different way – So what you are saying, is that it is not in the realm of possibility, that a municipality can change the way they currently do business? Yes or no answer will do.
“but then I don’t have out with deadbeats.”
Wow, I thought you lefties loved the poor. But they are deadbeats now,huh. I guess those dead beats on welfare,food stamps,medicaid,section 8 and medicare need to be sent down the road talking to themselves,right? But wait a minute, you are against cuts. So..some deadbeats are OK others are not, whichever fits your argument at the time. Correct?
DD, you’re the one who compared a governmental body with an ‘insurance company’. There’s no comparison between public and private enterprises, and the short answer to your trite question is “no”. Simple enough?
Jack, anyone who would try to turn tax evasion into some faux civil act of disobedience is a deadbeat. Yes.
I’ll start keeping things shorter for ya’ll.
#63 Pay careful attention, Jack. A deadbeat can be poor, rich, or anything in between. “Deadbeat” and “poor” are not synonymous.
There, isn’t it fun to learn something new?
“Jack, anyone who would try to turn tax evasion into some faux civil act of disobedience is a deadbeat. Yes”
Wow isn’t that what the colonists did at the original Tea Party. And they were patriots of the highest regard. Disobediance civil and otherwise is what created this country. If people like you had been around then, you would have been a tory, and we would all be speaking with a British accent. Remember, torries were considered traitors after the Revolutionary war.
Dublin Dawg
Let’s see if I have it right now. I’m not supposed to “interpret” Godsey’s remarks that he is opposed to property/real estate taxes as meaning that he would push to have them abolished. But I am supposed to
“interpret” your remark that the market can’t go lower as meaning that it can but probably won’t. I think I get it now. Read your mind because you don’t really mean what you say. And don’t read Godsey’s mind because he doesn’t mean what he says. Circular argument if I ever heard one
“Wow isn’t that what the colonists did at the original Tea Party. And they were patriots of the highest regard.”
Are you familiar, JackM, with the phrase “taxation without representation”? That is what the actual real Boston Tea Party people (not the pudgy posers we’re given today) were protesting. Newsflash…you HAVE representation.
If you seriously think you’re going to school me in history, JackM, guess again.
Leave it to “Sovereign Citizen” Jack to make tax evasion a patriotic tale. Go ahead Jack, I am sure someone will pick up your place for a song and be glad to have it and pay taxes for the privilege of living in a nation of laws.
Over the past 30 years, we’re used to the most wacky, far right idea migrate from the fringe to the “mainstream” of the GOP within a few years. Today, it’s an obscure state senate candidate; tomorrow, it might be George Allen campaigning on “No House Tax” bumper sticker slogan. Meanwhile, the Democrats advocate the same policy which the Heritage Foundation proposed a few years ago, but now the Democrats get blasted as “Anti-Americans”, “Socialists”, “Anti-Christian”.
I’m sure Jack could write some patriotic script for running out on a ticket in a restaurant.
“VT Hokie – well, duh. It was what we call a “hypothetical question”.”
I believe what you mean is it was a “rhetorical question”…..
Even rhetorical questions typically have some basis in reality. Implying that liberals get a “free ride” at your expense doesn’t make any sense.
Jack, would you agree now that your characterization of the Boston Tea Party was inaccurate?
Jack is correct – if you consider what we currently have in Washington as “representation”, then you obviously have extremely low requirements. The current budget mess does not represent my wishes, nor apparently does it reflect the wishes of approx. 70% of the US public. Most of these clowns in Congress are looking out for their own political careers, with a few exceptions.
Good point VT Hokie, and you know the other really ironic thing? Liberals that I have ever known have been smart, many well educated, most very successful and all gainfully employed. Granted many poor people vote Democratic (especially if they have an active group spurring them to vote), but the reality is that a large majority of the Conservative voting base is poor, uneducated or less well educated, religious, bigoted–fearful of gays, immigrants, gangs and “the blacks”, and believes every conspiracy against Jesus they can dream up, and vote accordingly. Many of them are also on “disability” or are retired. It is not remotely true that all of the people getting “free rides” are liberal in any way, shape or form. Go talk to a few of the “Farkels” and it becomes readily apparent that they are clueless and either do not vote or do not vote for those dreaded “liberals”.
No John, he will not. You must be new here.
“Most of these clowns in Congress are looking out for their own political careers, with a few exceptions.”
I agree. When you really stop to think about who has the most influence over law makers votes, it’s difficult to say they are representing US.
No, Jack is not ‘correct’. Just because you don’t like your representation doesn’t mean you don’t have it. The way we do it here is, if we’re unhappy with our current crop of representatives, is to find a candidate that represents our POV and work to get them elected.
The quality of what we have I can definitely take issue with, but the fact is – we elected them. They’re not there by accident, and pretending “Big Government” is some independent body completely divorced from the body politic is inaccurate. Every single one of those “clowns” won an election, which is how the Constitution has things set up.
Kristen is incorrect (no surprise there). If the person supposedly speaking for my district does not reflect my views, they do not represent my opinion or position on the pertinent issues. They may represent the majority of voters in my district, since they were elected in the first place, but they do not represent me. Basic Political Science 101. Next question!
Sandi – I am sure you have some facts to support your claim above that “a large majority of the Conservative voting base is poor, uneducated or less well educated, religious, bigoted–fearful of gays, immigrants, gangs and “the blacks”, and believes every conspiracy against Jesus they can dream up, and vote accordingly. Many of them are also on “disability” or are retired”. I look forward to seeing your proof.
LOL, ever been to or seen a TEA protest? I rest my case!
#73 Jack will NEVER agree he’s wrong about anything. He might challenge you to a fight, though. He’s just that kind of a guy.
So Sandi, can I interpret that comment to mean that you just pulled those “facts” out of your rear end???? No surprise there.
73.”Jack, would you agree now that your characterization of the Boston Tea Party was inaccurate?”
Absolutely not. my point was that they were protesting through refusal to pay a tax on Tea. Their form of protest was dumping the Tea rather than drinking it. Whether their protest was about “taxation without represntation” or mine which is overtaxation by a runaway authoritarian government, the fact of their non violent protest remains. My form of non violent protest would be not paying real estate tax, theirs was not paying the Tea Tax. The similarity is obvious.
” but the reality is that a large majority of the Conservative voting base is poor,”
I would say that most of the rich are conservatives, and most of the poor are democrats. Because the poor know where the freebies come from. The Democratic Party.
uneducated or less well educated, religious, bigoted–fearful of gays, immi”grants, gangs and “the blacks”, and believes every conspiracy against Jesus they can dream up, and vote accordingly. Many of them are also on “disability” or are retired”
Since 40% of ther Country considers itself strongly conservative as opposed to only 20% strongly liberal, then you are calling the single largest political group in the country bigoted. As well as the majority of the people in America itself bigoted, correct?
You are wrong (unsurprisingly) DD, and demonstrate a shocking lack of understanding how our Constitution operates. Also unsurprising.
You’re just another sore loser. Don’t be surprised if you never see anyone with your fringe views in public office.
Sore loser? You call that trouncing of the Liberals by the Conservatives in the last election losing? You call that butt kicking you Liberals took in Wisconsin yesterday losing? Maybe I need to look up the definition of losing – OOps looky there it’s a picture of Kristen! Now I know what a loser and losing is. LOL
I would challenge the notion that elected officials necessarily represent even the people that voted for them, considering the all too often wide gap between campaign promises made and campaign promises fulfilled (that goes for all parties). Nevertheless our system beats the pants off of any other governing system around the world…we have a level of freedom that people in other nations can only dream about. I would not say that what we have today compares remotely to the what colonies endured under British monarchy.
The fact that anyone can come to a blog like this and refer to the person holding the highest office in the country as “idiot boy”, or “bam bam”, or in years past as “shrub”, not to mention talk ad nauseum about what incompetent losers they are/were, and do all this without fear being threatened, imprisoned, or killed, speaks volumes. The tired rhetoric about “oppression” and “tyranny” to the contrary, none of us have the slightest idea what it’s like to truly live under oppression and tyranny. As broken as our government seems to be at the moment, I am still thankful everyday that I live in America. Other people have it much, much worse.
“You’re just another sore loser”
Actually you are the “sore losers” to the tune of 60 plus seats.
“how our Constitution operates”
Our Constitution doesnt “operate”.. and it is subject to interpretation which varies wildly.
” Don’t be surprised if you never see anyone with your fringe views in public office.”
Ever heard of Senator Rand Paul? You see we are not the fringe. The Tea Party and others like them are the heart and soul of America. These aren’t teenagers out there. They are Moms and Dads,grandmothers and grandfathers who have been mostly silent all these years. Even my Mom at 77 sent a Teabag to her Senator, and she has never been politically active other than to vote. This is an uprising of the normal folk in America who are sick of the status quo and are rising up to bring America back to its former greatness. Get on board or get out of the way. Cause here we come!
“Whether their protest was about “taxation without represntation” or mine which is whiny sniveling because our president is a black Democrat, the fact of their non violent protest remains. My form of non violent protest would be not paying real estate tax, theirs was not paying the Tea Tax. The similarity is obvious.”
There! All fixed.
AND THERE SHE GOES, EVERYONE – WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS – PLAY THE RACE CARD! How predictable. When the facts get stacked too much against you, the Libs always pull the race card – case in point.
Somewhere out there Jack, DD, and a Flat Earther are sitting in some dive whining that their views aren’t adequately represented.
“whiny sniveling because our president is a black Democrat,”
I dont think real estate taxes have much to do with our President being a “black Democrat”…
I realize that where you get your ideas might seem to be the same place the rest of us get ours but I do have proof. I’ll show my proof when you prove your excreted notion that “Liberals just want a free ride, and let everybody else pay for services YOU need“! Name ONE “free ride” service that only Liberals need or use?
VT Hokie – “none of us have the slightest idea what it’s like to truly live under oppression and tyranny”. You’ve never been married to my wife have you? LOL
No Jack, they don’t. You’ll just have to accept my slight specticism over your sudden concern with the tyranny of the property tax.
I call them like I see them Jack. For someone so proud of himself on that score, I fail to see why you think that is specifically your territory.
LOL, actually your “case in point” was proven in your #32. It never hurts when you “remove all doubt” for us.
That’s “scepticism.” And it applies to all of the self-annointed “tea partiers” presumeably complete ignorance of the fact that – up until Obama was president – they were ALREADY paying income and property taxes. We already had a national debt! These just didn’t pop up since February of 2009, although to hear the “Tea party” (again, self-annointed…personally I think it’s seditious to tag the actual Tea Party people with this crew) talk, you’d think that 1099s and the national debt sprung into life,full-blown, with Obama’s taking office.
Kristen – when Obama became President, we ALSO had a AAA credit rating – you forgot to mention that little detail.
“sudden concern with the tyranny of the property tax.”
Actually I sent my strike idea to City Council during the Victory Stadium issue. A year or so before it was torn down. So it isnt “sudden”
” When the facts get stacked too much against you, the Libs always pull the race card”
every time DD
I’m sure, DD, that you have a long history of being concerned about our country’s S&P rating, and had even heard of S&P before a week ago.
You remind me of the people who went around after 9/11 knowledgably chiming in on things like ‘soft targets’.
@#94 “You’ve never been married to my wife have you?”
My husband would probably have given the same answer
Actually Kristen, I am an active stock investor so the S&P, Moody’s etc all interest me. Of course, that’s only when I’m not ‘coon huntin, frog giggin and gator huntin. I’ve even gotten my buddies in the KKK, er I mean the SW VA Social Club interested. Well, gotta go – need to stop and get me a six pack of Milwaukee’s Finest and a tin of Skoal on my way home. Can’t wait to see what ‘ol Rev Al Sharpton is gonna say tonight. WHHOOOOEEEE!
Sandi – I never said there were any services used by Liberals that were not used by Conservatives – my comment was that Liberals want everyone else to pay for the services they use – big difference. Let me explain it s-l-o-w-l-y for you. I might pay for MY garbage pickup, but as a Liberal you think I should pay for YOUR garbage pickup also, because I make more money than you. That’s only fair in your Liberal world. Do you see now? MY garbage pickup versus YOUR garbage pickup. Have you always had a problem with reading comprehension? Maybe you are eating too much dairy. Maybe you should cut back – I’m truly concerned about your health
I hate to wade into the fun here — I see we’ve already passed the 100 post mark — but here’s a question I’d throw out for consideration on the question of paying for government services.
When are those services something that benefit just the user? And when are they something that benefit the entire community?
For instance, in theory, everyone benefits from having an educated citizenry — hence the rationale for using taxes (from everyone) to pay for schools, rather than requiring parents to pay “user fees.” The idea is that even people who don’t have kids in schools eventually benefit and should therefore help foot the bill.
Other services might be different. Where should the line be drawn?
For instance: I live out in the country, so I pay a private hauler to pick up my garbage. I suppose if I didn’t do that, I could burn it in the backyard (that’s what we did when I was growing up)and maybe nobody much would care, or even notice. But if I lived in the city, would neighbors complain that my backyard trash-burning is driving down their property values — which some might well argue is a reason for a tax-supported garbage collection system — because everybody in a city benefits from having the trash picked up, right?
So what are services that everyone should pay for through taxes and which are ones that should only be paid for by the users? Any arguments for and against?
– Dwayne Yancey
Economy of scale is the answer to most of those questions….certainly the garbage one. And what if you lived in the city and just didn’t feel like doing anything about your garbage….should you be allowed to just let it stack up in your back yard attracting vermin? It has to do with more than just property values…it’s conceding that quality of life for the group matters if you’re going to opt – as we all have – to live in civilization. Ok most of us have.
Is this seriously the sort of infringement on their freedoms the TP is complaining about?
“I’ve even gotten my buddies in the KKK, er I mean the SW VA Social Club interested”
Well someone has to buy Altria.
Parents paying “user fees” is a good idea, and eliminating govt. involvement in education totally, is a better one.
Eliminate the predjudicial rental inspection which only effects certain parts of the City.
Privatize swimming pools.
Reduce Code Enforcement to condemn only homes that are truly dangerous.Eliminate grass citations to the worst cases only.Quit tagging and stealing vehicles for expired sticker or tags.
Eliminate City Planning.
Eliminate road crews, and sub out the work.
Privatize City Jail
Add a volunteer fire dept and reduce paid firemen.
Thats just a few ideas.
Jack’s post answers my question.
Dwayne – I also used to live in the country – we all had a burn barrel, but we also had access to a trash pickup service if we so desired and wanted to pay the pickup fee. I burned my pizza boxes etc but hauled my own trash to the county dump. That’s a good example of having a viable option based on individual preference. As for schools, I do not see how a 70 year old senior will benefit from having their taxes raised to build a new school. We have that dilemna right now in Montgomery County. I paid to have my daughter go to Catholic school. But I still paid for other people’s kids go to public schools. To me that is double jeopardy. A school tax I think is an avenue worth looking at, and school vouchers are also another option. I know, the Libs are going to whine “what about the people who can’t afford to pay a school tax?” Well, there comes a point where people have to get off their a_s and take responsibility for their life. Case in point – Tiki and Ronde Barber’s mom from Roanoke – great story. For you Libs that can read, google her story. Very inspiring.
People decided a long time ago what kind of a society they wanted to live in.
Cities, with a concentration of people and a dearth of open land have to have different laws and services than rural communities. That “freedom” means to you, that you can trash your property and it have no bearing on your neighbors is the kind of arrogant ignorance that causes a lot of problems. Slumlords and people willing to live in squalor simply do not get to make that choice, mainly because they would. Cooking over a fire and bathing in a creek might be a choice you should have the “freedom” to make, but why should your neighbors or the flora/fauna be burdened with that blight? Obviously we have not all evolved, and if you prefer not to live in a nation of laws and respect your neighbors and the society you live in, some things are then compulsory.
Yes, water, sewer, trash, buses, libraries, hospitals, airports, roads, bridges, landfills, dams, the police, firemen, rescue squads, parks, schools and the courts (and the people they employ) all benefit society as a whole and the costs of all of those services shared among the people in the community, state and nation is more fair (and cheaper) than the idea of picking and choosing what you want to pay for based only on what you say you use. The price of living in society is helping to pay for the services all or most use.
104 was a real laugh riot but seriously, you said “Liberals just want a free ride, and let everybody else pay for services YOU need“! I asked you to name ONE “free ride” service that only Liberals need or use and you repeat again, that “Liberals want everyone else to pay for the services they use” and still did not offer one service that your statement would be true of. Instead you go on “s-l-o-w-l-y” to blather that because you “might” pay for trash hauling, I, by virtue of being a Liberal get my trash picked up for free. No, I do not believe that happens or that such an “explanation” no matter how “s-l-o-w-l-y” you go, is an example of what you said. Have you always had a problem with explaining your idiotic insults? Maybe you are drinking too much tea. But, don’t cut back, I am not at all concerned about your health.
FYI, DD, “double jeopardy” is strictly a criminal justice construct. It has no relevance to taxation whatsoever.
“And what if you lived in the city and just didn’t feel like doing anything about your garbage….should you be allowed to just let it stack up in your back yard attracting vermin?”
Here’s what would happen. Let’s say you are not required through taxes to pay for the city to come pick up your trash each week. Instead, you can choose to pay for a private trash collecting service. Or they can choose to dump it themselves, but most city dumps (I know Salem does this) only allow you one free trip per year and then you have to pay to dump trash at the city dump every time after that. So either way, it’s gonna cost you.
Now, because of sanitation issues, as well as property value concerns, the city will still need to mandate that people dispose of their trash regularly. People will get citations for letting their garbage pile up. Oh the oppression. The anti-freedom!!!
At this point, people will start screaming that if the city is going to “force” them to haul off their trash regularly, they ought to provide it as a service.
And we’re back at square one.
Excellent point VT Hokie!
VTHokie
Or alternatively, you would be charged with a misdemeanor (or maybe even a felony) and fined for disobeying the law. And good rightwinger that you(not you VTHokie) are you stand up for your insane principles and refuse to pay the fine. The city puts you in jail and gets a judgment against you which attaches to your property. You refuse to pay the judgment so they take enforcement action and ultimately your property is sold to pay the fines and costs! So much for your property rights. This is what extremists do. They do not think through the consequences of their sound bite philosophies.
“People will get citations for letting their garbage pile up. Oh the oppression. The anti-freedom!!!”
VTHokie…why do you hate freedom?
“Reduce Code Enforcement to condemn only homes that are truly dangerous.Eliminate grass citations to the worst cases only.Quit tagging and stealing vehicles for expired sticker or tags.”
So JackM’s Tea Party Utopia will be populated with firetraps set in a vista of unmown lawn decorated with decrepit vehicles. Ah, I can just smell the spirit of the FF from here. Or maybe that’s trash.
“decrepit vehicles”
The fact is that the Code only requires an expired sticker or plate as an excuse to steal your vehicle after a 10 day notice. It could be a Rolls Royce, has nothing to do with the vehicle being “decrepit” whatsoever.
“unmown”
Is that a word?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/unmown
Yes it’s a word.
“By the way Sandi I answered your question – still waiting for that proof about your allegationsn about Conservatives etc in your previous post – waiting, waiting….”
Comment by Dublin Dawg — August 11, 2011 @ 8:09 pm in the Verizon thread.
As usual you turn the parameters and demand that someone else prove their position even though you did no such thing. Typical.
What you seem to be missing in most “conversations” on any blog, is that people can have, express and believe an opinion. Sometimes that opinion is based in observations over time, experience and even concrete sources. Doubtless you are familiar with the right wing delivered talking points you so often parrot and yet still demand respect for (as if), but I will offer some sources for what I expressed, even though you offered NOTHING for yours except pretzel logic.
You asked me for “some facts to support your claim above that “a large majority of the Conservative voting base is poor, uneducated or less well educated, religious, bigoted–fearful of gays, immigrants, gangs and “the blacks”, and believes every conspiracy against Jesus they can dream up, and vote accordingly. Many of them are also on “disability” or are retired”
Since the 15th Amendment was ratified the Southern Conservatives have worked hard to disenfranchise non-white voters. Many of theses “Conservatives” were poor, white, uneducated and bigoted to the point of being Klan members, this is a well documented fact: They were called “Democrats” for a long time but they were what evolved into the Southern Republicans and eventually just the right wing conservative voting block.
You can start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disfranchisement_after_Reconstruction_era
and here: http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/books/phillips-southern.pdf
and here: http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2011/03/31/theyre-poor-scared-less-educated-and-left-behind-new-polling-data-from-gallup-on-conservatives-and-red-state-america/
and here:http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/02/the-conservative-states-of-america/71827/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fevga9jUC48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y
http://teapartyorg.ning.com/forum/topics/obama-can-not-guarantee-social
http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2011/07/11/scenes-from-the-tea-party/
http://www.gallup.com/poll/127181/tea-partiers-fairly-mainstream-demographics.aspx
YOU can do your own reading. But, again, I rest my case and await any proof of your specious remarks.