Chamber forum offers a preview of the intensifying fall General Assembly races
The races for the 9th House and 21st Senate districts – both featuring contests between established sitting legislators scrambling to win votes in newly redrawn districts – are two of the hottest not just in western Virginia but in the state.
And although none of the candidates actually shared the stage, a forum sponsored by state and regional chambers of commerce in Roanoke on Wednesday offered voters the closest thing yet to an actual debate.
Ward Armstrong
Charles Poindexter
Ninth District candidates Del. Charles Poindexter, R-Franklin County, and Del. Ward Armstrong, D-Henry County, split sharply on both transportation and energy issues.
Before an audience of about 25 – including representatives of Appalachian Power, a company that’s been the target of much of his campaign – Armstrong blamed rate increases by the regional power company for making it harder to do business in Southwest and Southside Virginia.
Poindexter said the government, however, has gotten too far involved in business affairs. He called for the state and federal governments to “get out of the way and let business do its thing” – with the exception of providing economic development incentives in cases where they would result in job creation.
Both Armstrong and Poindexter endorsed offshore oil drilling, but while Armstrong saw only limited potential owing to Virginia’s relatively limited continental shelf, Poindexter touted the potential upside and bragged that he’d sponsored a measure to make it happen.
The two also disagreed on transportation. Armstrong said he opposes increasing the gas tax and criticized Poindexter for supporting a resolution favoring its increase while he was serving as a member of the Franklin County Board of Supervisors.
Poindexter said that although he has not signed a no-tax-increase pledge, the gas tax is becoming increasingly ineffective with the emergence of hybrid and electric cars. He called for a top-to-bottom re-evaluation of transportation funding – including the possibility that localities might take on the maintenance of secondary roads.
John Edwards
Dave Nutter
Unlike Poindexter and Armstrong, who spoke back to back, incumbent Sen. John Edwards, D-Roanoke, spoke two hours after his opponent, Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg.
Edwards touted the role of government initiatives and spending in economic development. He cited the Roanoke Higher Education Center as an example. The institution, which offers college programs in downtown Roanoke, has led to $32 million in economic impact and 6,500 degrees and completions, and its students make an aggregate $35 million more per year than they were making before, Edwards said.
He also called for more government support of higher education and Medicaid – which he said would respectively lower the cost of tuition and the cost of health insurance.
Nutter, however, called for a shift in education priorities that included more focus on vocational training, classes in entrepreneurship and incentives for teachers with math and science backgrounds.
Although Nutter didn’t name his opponent, he suggested that Edwards has caused disruption within the Roanoke Valley caucus that has in turn led to a weaker regional voice.
“There are going to be fewer reps in the western parts of Virginia than in the urban area,” Nutter said. “So if we don’t work together, to maximize your strengths and leverage that, we’re going to fall behind.”
The forum, sponsored by the Virginia Chamber of Commerce with the Roanoke Regional Chamber of Commerce and the Virginia West Business and Legislative Coalition, is one of a series being held around the state that will ultimately include about 60 candidates in 30 different legislative races.
Other candidates at the forum were: Sen. Roscoe Reynolds, D-Henry County, and independent Jeff Evans in the 20th Senate District; Democrat Freeda Cathcart and Republican Chris Head in the 17th House District; Republican Nick Rush in the 7th House District; Democrat Don Langrehr in the 12 House District.
Notably absent were candidates from the 19th Senate District: Sen. Ralph Smith, R-Roanoke County and independent challenger Brandon Bell.
Bell issued a news release in the afternoon blaming “party politics” for the fact he did not receive an invite.
“My opponent, Ralph Smith, has not submitted one single jobs bill after four years in the Senate, and simply has no plan going forward to address our jobs crisis in SW [Southwest] Virginia,” Bell wrote in the release. “Ralph Smith’s failed record on jobs explains why he would not want to participate in this forum, and therefore the State Republican Party and the Virginia Chamber have given him a free pass.”
To read Bell’s full news release, click “read more”:
– Mason Adams
Press Release
For Immediate Release
September 21, 2011
Recently, I was shocked to learn that my opponent and I were not invited to participate in today’s candidate forum hosted by the Virginia Chamber of Commerce. At a crucial time in our economy, when job creation and economic development is foremost on everyone’s mind, this astounds me that the Chamber would blatantly ignore this vast Senate district when planning the event. The 19th Senate District is made up of many rural towns and communities that are really hurting. Our voters and small business leaders in this district deserve the opportunity to hear what my opponent and I plan to do about jobs.
Unfortunately, party politics is behind the decision to shut out the 19th Senate District. All one has to do is look at the facts – who is invited and who is not. Clearly, the party bosses of the Virginia Republican Party and the Virginia Chamber have joined forces in an effort to host forums where they can be beneficial to ONLY Republican candidates.
The Virginia Chamber of Commerce, in coordination with the State Republican Party are both showing a total disregard for the communities in this district. By joining forces together, they are ignoring the fact that the 19th Senate District is an open seat with two candidates running who have extremely different approaches to job creation. My opponent, Ralph Smith, has not submitted one single jobs bill after four years in the Senate, and simply has no plan going forward to address our jobs crisis in SW Virginia. Ralph Smith’s failed record on jobs explains why he would not want to participate in this forum, and therefore the State Republican Party and the Virginia Chamber have given him a free pass. He clearly doesn’t want to expose himself in front of a group of business leaders and explain why he failed them. The Chamber of Commerce along with the Republicans are hiding him. Unlike my opponent, I would welcome the opportunity to interact with local business leaders and discuss the most important challenge we face. Shame on the Virginia Chamber for playing party politics when they should be proactively driving economic development in all areas of the State, including the 19th Senate District.
September 21, 2011 - 4:31 PM
Great question!
One would expect Smith to not want to take a chance
but to ignore our district is a real insult
Looks like Bell has a valid point here. Ralph Smith is very weak when in side-by-side comparisons in person, and he knows it. He turned tail and ran, and the Chamber was happy to open an escape route for him. Very cowardly of both of them.
John Edwards has let Roanoke City and the surrounding area down for years now. If you like Obama and what he stands for then you like Edwards. Edwards is the most liberal Senator in the state. He is a rubber stamp for liberal Obama ideas. Edwards wants to raise gas the gax tax. His only idea. GREAT! Edwards must go as he is anti business and pro big grovernment. He voting record is clear on what he stands for. He admits he does not even read the bills he votes for. Just a liberal rubber stamp. I suprised the minorities in Roanoke vote for Edwards. He has not helped them with jobs. What has he done for them? NOTHING!
If the Chamber purposely didnt invite Bell or Smith, to help Smith, then they must feel he is better for buisness. BTW…what jobs did Bell create when he was in? I know with his anti smoking bill he probably cost some.
As it happens, I DO like Obama “and what he stands for” and I also appreciate the way Edwards has represented this area. Your idea of what this area needs and what it actually does need are two very different things and we are better off without whomever you support IMO. The roads and infrastructure in this area desperately need the money from the gas tax increased and it has been neglected for far too long. Does a bridge have to fall here too? People need to wake up and see that the austerity and let the poor suffer plans are not going to work out so well for our society in the long haul. Can you even pretend Nutter will not be a GOP “rubber stamp”? Who are you trying to kid? Why do you need the government or our representatives to create jobs and why do you think Nutter can or will? It is the economy and jobs but neither an be fixed this way.
@5
Dems never met a tax they didn’t like. That’s why they need to go. The problem is not lack of revenue, it is too much spending. And for a candidate to be in favor of increased gas taxes in this economy shows their disconnection with the average person. Edwards needs to go.
Over taxing businesses and increasing the gas tax hurt businesses and they do not compete as THEIR money goes to the government which Edwards wants. Let the businesses keep more of THEIR money and they will reinvest and hire. Business will pass along the fuel increase to consumers. Libs just want to take more money from the people that work. The government can not cretae jobs but they sure can hinder job growth. Look what OBAMA has achieved. Everything he wanted and the country is paying for it. Edwards and Obama are the same in the way they see things and vote.
Jack, seriously, in the case of Virginia and infrastructure needs it is most assuredly about a lack of revenue and only a partisan too blinded to admit the truth thinks otherwise. I have met plenty of taxes I do not like, the car and personal property tax to name one.
Do you not think the Construction, transportation, and development industries are harmed by NOT raising the gas tax and seeing to the needs of Virginia’s crumbling roads and bridges? It is patently absurd and shows your lack of credibility to say “Libs just want to take more money from the people that work” Tripp Godsey and it makes me more glad by the moment that you lost. You are not a leader this area or this nation needs.
It is not the government that is hindering growth, not by any stretch of the imagination, that is simply a GOP talking point that gets parroted without any thought. Many companies are sitting on cash reserves and making record profits too.
When the GOP took over the House things were supposed to “change” and they have not. Newsflash, when the GOP takes over the Senate and the White House things will just be kicked down the road and SOSO will reign again. You have no plans, you have no solutions and you have no better candidate, alternatives or ideas. YOU share in the blame for the chickens that have come home to roost the past 4 years! If America falls for your BS again, she will deserve the final destruction of this nation as we know it which is all you actually have to offer.
“Libs just want to take more money from the people that work.”
Yes, it is after all the “libs” who continuously point out that 50% of Americans don’t even pay income taxes, and that we need to “broaden the base”. Meaning collect more taxes from the poor working class Americans.
Michelle Bachmann is a lib, right? Oh wait….
So the esteemed former candidate for this seat is now just a hyperbolic Internet commentor playing the Obama boogeyman game. Way to stay credible.
If we let businesses keep their money, they’ll “reinvest and hire”? What on earth is this based on.
Amen Kristen, we have fallen for that same old tired rhetoric for so long with so little to show for it. Reagan lowered taxes, Clinton lowered taxes, Bush lowered taxes, twice and STILL the jobs left, wages stagnates, benefits lost ground and the American middle class is threatened as never before. I realize they have people lined up and ready for the kool-aid but the facts are simply not on their side.
“…corporations are actually paying less in taxes than they have in decades, yet unemployment remains above 9 percent“.
http://blog.chron.com/lorensteffy/2011/09/would-a-lower-corporate-tax-rate-create-jobs/
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/04/08/lower-corporate-taxes-wont-create-more-jobs/
http://www.presimetrics.com/blog/
8.”Jack, seriously, in the case of Virginia and infrastructure needs it is most assuredly about a lack of revenue”
It isn’t at all about lack of revenues. It is about poor spending habits that continue even now. VDOT is going spend tens of millions of dollars for traffic circles in SE that no one that lives here wants. This is typical VDOT folly that goes on on a daily basis all over the state. Take those millions and repair existing roads and bridges first.
“What on earth is this based on.”
It is based on the reality of the buisness world. More taxes, less money,less money, less expansion and hiring. Works that way from the smallest to the largest buisness. Haw can anyone not see how obvious this is?
Works the same at your house. The less disposable income you have, the less projects, services and goods you will purchase. That simple. More taxes equals less disposable income.
“Works the same at your house. The less disposable income you have, the less projects, services and goods you will purchase.”
Wrong. You assume that I feel the need to spend every penny of disposable income, whether a lot or a little. I might just decide to sit on that money. And who do you think is doing that?
Bachmann is right. Get more people working would be better as she stated. People would contribute verses asking those who do work to pay more. Sandi, Yes I did not win but if I did win Libs would not have a go to guy as they have now with Edwards. You say I would not be a leader since I believe in lowering taxes. Interesting. In you opinion beliveing in raising taxes makes you a better leader. No wonder you like Edwards and Obama.
This country was built on hard work not social programs.
@14
Im assuming nothing. So the more extra money you have then the less you will spend? Cmon…The more you have, the more you spend. The more each of us spend, the better the economy all the way around. Less taxes equals more spending money and a better economy.
I did not say you would not be a good leader only because you believe in lowering already historically low taxes.
Why does AEP continue to increase their rates? Why does food keep going up? Gasoline? Why does anything increase in price? Infrastructure costs more so they need more revenue even to do the same amount of work. Asphalt, concrete, sand, gravel, fuel, equipment, toilets, structural steel, all the items that go into an infrastructure project have ALL gone up in price and yet the VDOT is expected to build with a 17 year old rate. Do you know anything that has not had a rate increase in that length of time?
Your premises are all wrong , Jack, but it’s not worth the time and effort.
Jack, then why are corporations sitting on huge amounts of cash? Your reasoning doesn’t always prove out because other factors go into spending/saving besides having cash on hand.
Tripp
Why don’t you share with us some of those “verses” they would contribute!
You get more people working when demand is created. None of those “job creators” will spend one dime of that money they have squirreled away until demand is created. The middle class is being pushed down by the guys with the cash who are sending it all to China, India, Mexico, Taiwan,
and Pakistan. Cutting their taxes has demonstrably done nothing in the past 20 years to create jobs. We need a trillion dollar plus infrastructure program to get people working and that will create demand.
If demand increases, then the entrpreneurs will come in afte the fact and
take advantage of it by incresing production and creating more jobs.
By bowing down to Republican demands and nickle/diming the stimulus programs, we didn’t do enough to kickstart the economy. We need to spend more, not less in the short term. Once the economy begins to improve, then we can deal with the deficit in the long term because revenues will improve with more people working. Any body who can’t see that logic is hiding their head in the sand. Those are the “verses” we should be singing.
18.”Why does AEP continue to increase their rates?”
Who approves the increases? Govt… that simple.
“Your reasoning doesn’t always prove out because other factors go into spending/saving besides having cash on hand.”
I bet ya that that is the case 90% of the time. If you get an extra 100 bucks this week will you spend or save it?
Bravo Sandi. Tripp is touting the same old Conservative Republican Tea Baggin propoganda that businesses are over-regulated and over taxed and that if you reduce regulations and taxes that the economy will take off and flourish, businesses will expand and they will hire all of the unemployed. The basic fallacy of this theory is that businesses are about making money and not about doing the right thing. We saw with 8 years of Bush the extreme reduction of taxes, virtual elimination of regulation on wall street, and what did it produce? It showed businesses that they could flourish WITHOUT hiring and they could run wild on Wall Street with massive corruption and incompetence. These tea baggers are way behind the times. I used to not think so, but I have now concluded that racism is a significant, but unstated component of their philosophy and the primary driver of their motivation to bring down one of the most decent and intelligent Presidents we’ve had in this century.
EarlK
One qualifier to your post which I agree with. Their motivation is to bring down the ONLY intelligent President we have had in THIS century.
Earl, You cant critize Obama if you do you’re a racist. Come on now. Again using you logic if you critize me you’re a racist. I am not racist and you should not say that because of critism to the president.
Dave, Bush did much better than Obama in college. He won 2 terms.
Again if you like Edwards you like Obama and neither has helped the minorities. If they have I have not heard about it. Anyone know what either has done? The ecomomy is in the tank thanks to their policies.
Earl, I like Hermain Cain for President and EW Jackson for US VA Senate because they are constitutional conservatives. I disagree with liberals.
And liberals disagree with you so we are even. You can all the other so called “constitutional conservatives” need to point to some of the failures of your own party and candidates before you have credibility to lash out at Obama and the Dems. What have conservatives ever proposed that was a benefit to the working class, minorities, the elderly, or the indigent. Name it. Name the policy, the legislation, the protections, even the rhetoric that has been supportive of working class folks over the corporate elites? We’ll wait. Every tax break for the wealthy is couched in terms of “trickle down” which even the Reagan folks admit was bogus and throwing us a bone while they feast is just not good enough to qualify.
“…McConnell’s stand puts the lie to the Republican pretense that its new monetarist and supply-side doctrines are rooted in its traditional financial philosophy. Republicans used to believe that prosperity depended upon the regular balancing of accounts — in government, in international trade, on the ledgers of central banks and in the financial affairs of private households and businesses, too. But the new catechism, as practiced by Republican policymakers for decades now, has amounted to little more than money printing and deficit finance — vulgar Keynesianism robed in the ideological vestments of the prosperous classes.”
Four Deformations of the Apocalypse
By DAVID STOCKMAN
Earl K,
Racism was one of the cornerstones of the Tea Party. Where were they when a white President was doing all of the things they dishonestly say were their reason for forming? Why did they suddenly spring up when a black man was elected? Even a blind man could see the connection.
As far as Godsey’s whining about not being able to criticize Obama without being racist, he doth protest too much. W
hat has Senator Edwards done for minorities in his district? Are you serious? Do you know keep up with what is going on in the same district you wanted to represent? How about the Higher Education Center, Tripp? How about the Amtrak bus? Aren’t both of these open to all, minorities and majority alike?
“Dave, Bush did much better than Obama in college. He won 2 terms.”
What in God’s name do these two statements have to do with one another?
Jack, you are mostly providing insight into your own life, not much else.
Of course you can criticize Obama without being or sounding like a racist, but you cannot hold up signs of him as a “witch doctor” or other demeaning fake racial characterization without appearing racist. You cannot claim him to be a Muslim, or not eligible to be President without appearing to be racist. You cannot use some manifestation of “boy”, “monkey”, or other racist stereotype, epithet or pejorative and not appear racist. If you have not done any of those things, then Earl was obviously not talking to you, but you also cannot claim that no one has done so.
“one of the most decent and intelligent Presidents we’ve had in this century.”
That indeed is a dubious distinction. I mean this century is only 11 years old.
@Jack–So the Chamber doesn’t invite Bell and Smith because they assume Smith is better? Don’t you think the voters and small business owners should have a chance to hear from both candidates and come to their own conclusions? And Jack, give us one bill Ralph Smith submitted in 4 years that had anything to do with job creation. I won’t hold my breath.
Speaking of breathing, it’s time to get over the smoking bill issue. Restaurants are packed and everyone is breathing CLEAN AIR! Apparently it’s hard for you to understand why the overwhelming majority of us don’t want to breath toxic chemicals while we eat. But, if you are truly missing that lovely experience, I am sure you can find a smoker that would gladly exhale second hand smoke in your face while you are eating.
“Restaurants are packed and everyone is breathing CLEAN AIR!”
Actually they are closing down left and right. And no bars Ive been in lately are limiting smokimg at all.
Tripp
“Bush did better than Obama in college. He won 2 terms.”
Wrong on both counts. Bush was a noted “C” student party boy. And he sure wasn’t selected to edit a prestigioius law review. And he won one term. His Daddy’s buddies on the Supreme Court gave him the other one. He lost the election by over 500000 votes and would have lost Florida if the Supreme Court would have stayed out of it and let Fla. complete a legitimate vote count. And now his buddies are trying to further rig the electoral college by changing the rules in Democrat dominated states.
And I’m sure you have received plenty of “critism” before and will be
“critised” again for being on the fringe of the fringe.
Good point Jack…and the competition is very weak.
“Dave, Bush did much better than Obama in college. He won 2 terms.” How do we know Tripp? Lord Obama refuses to release his college records, real birth certificate or anything else about his personal life. He’s got something to hide – maybe someday we will find out what that is – hopefully before he completely destroys this country.
“We need a trillion dollar plus infrastructure program to get people working and that will create demand.”
We tried that already, and it failed. Throwing good money after bad is what got this country in a bind in the first place.
“on the fringe of the fringe.”
Hate to break it to you, but the socialists on this blog are on the true fringe. As 20% of the population, liberals are a tiny fraction of the electorate for a reason. The Tea Party by far better represents the norm, and the average American. Thats why they stomped the Dems into oblivion last election, and will finish the job in 2012. Liberalism is a failed experiment and soon to be considered passe.
I have been able to enjoy going to see live entertainment again after years of not going and my friends say the same. I think the smoking ban is a great thing and I appreciate the enforced manners and decency.
President Obama is not the one trying or succeeding in destroying this country.
DDawg
Its time for you crazy birthers to get over it. You have no basis for these unfounded and racist allegations.
We have on one side – President Obama, a Harvard law graduate, Editor of the Law Review, Constitutional scholar and Constitutional Law Professor at the University of Chicago Law School. On the other hand we have the masses of tea baggers many without college degrees, few even with a law degree, but they still spout their interpretation of the Constitution like it’s the gospel through their missing teeth as they cling to their guns and their religon. Is there really any comparison? Why should we even consider their sophomoric babble?
“You have no basis for these unfounded and racist allegations.”
Only the left can see racism in any criticism of Obama. Ill be glad when he is out of there so that Americans can critique their president without being called “unfounded” names.I myself will not tiptoe around anyone because of their color. Being “black” doesn’t free you from duty or criticism, and shouldn’t.
The Chamber did Smith a FAVOR by not inviting him. He mutters and diverts when he is confronted (like Goodlatte does) so why in the world would he want to debate Bell in front of an audience? Moderate republicans will more than likely jump ship for Bell and I’m sure Smith knows this.
Actually Jack, “The Tea Party by far better represents the” abnormal, anti-government, anti-science, anti-education, anti intelligence fringe (and a shrinking one) and there is simply no doubt about it.
http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/tea-partys-approval-rating-drops-to-new-low-new-gallup-poll/politics/2011/08/10/25290
“The Tea Party is now viewed unfavorably by 40 percent of the public and favorably by just 20 percent, according to the poll.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/us/politics/05poll.html?_r=2
Tea Party favorite Cain wins straw poll in Florida. What is the slant on this? Why would Tea Party support Cain? You know why. He is a constitutional consevative American. He and Bachman are our countries best hope to turn this country around before its too late. Lets get them elected and also do not reelect Edwards as he has the poorest rating on family values in the state of any Senator.
dave – so you’ve seen Obama’s college applications? You’ve seen his college transcripts? Perhaps you will share them with the rest of us. WAITING……..
If you can show me a magna cum laude Harvard law school graduate who was named head of the prestigious law review and who has authored two highly literate books, both of which reveal a great deal about his personal life
and whowwas named a costitutional law scholar at the University of Chicago,
another of the country’s most pretigious law schools who was not a highly intelligent and capable individual then you can press your point. Until then, all you have is prejudice and hot air, mostly the latter.
Tripp
The slant on this is that moderate Republicans are staying home and the wing nut tea party is taking over and controlling the Republican primaries. And if they nominate Cain, or Bachmann, or Perry, of Santorum,
or Palin, they’ll get about the same percentage of the vote in the general elecxtion as you got in your primary against Dave Nutter.
When the whining starts, you know you are on to something. I have never seen any President’s college transcripts and do not care too. The question is, will you be so adamant about birth certificates, college transcripts and “friends” for the TPR’s? Where are Bachman’s, Perry’s, Cain’s?
The slant on Herman Cain winning any poll is that people are so overloaded with ODS that they would vote for worse, far worse, just to be rid of him. Thankfully the nation is not the TPR’s! May God Bless America with the wisdom to choose wisely.
“40 percent of the public and favorably by just 20 ”
And the other 40% are saying…who?
Apparently RWers are under the impression that one wins the Presidency by submitting a college application. Interesting.
dave – if he is so smart and accomplished as you claim, then why will he not release his college transcripts? Wouldn’t that be an asset especially is his re-election bid?From what I hear, maybe he wasn’t so smart after all, but maybe he was a beneficiary of good ‘ol affirmative action. Once again, dave, you cannot back up your claims, so you resort to playing the race card, as most Liberals do. Pathetic!
here ya go dave :
http://www.cashill.com/natl_general/why_obama_is_mum.htm
Comments smart guy?
DD, why should he? Just to embarrass the imbeciles the way he did when he released his birth certificate? Why are you so obsessed with it? Have you demanded the release of other candidates’ information, or just the black guy’s?
Anyone who thinks Bachmann is a viable candidate has a screw loose. The Republicans have controlled the House for nine months now. Forget the birth certificate and the transcripts. WHERE ARE THE JOBS??
DDawg
What the hell good would it do. He released his b irth certificate and records which shut up Donald Trump but you birther conspiracists just kept right on with your claims that the documents were illegitimate. There
is nothing he can release that would satisfy you You have decided that the only thing he had going for him was affirmative action becsause you “heard it” someplace. He’s a black President, ergo the only wy he got there was by affirmative action. Your entire argument is inherently racist in a political system which has never demanded the same documentation from any other Presidential candidate, much less any white
Republicon.
John – George W. Bush’s college transcripts + military record were made public, admittedly some were leaked but GWB often joked about his poor academic record. Anyone who is chosen to lead this country (although in Obama’s case “lead” is debateable)should be prepared to answer questions concerning their qualifications to hold the office of President. And don’t play the race card although that seems to be the only thing you Libs know how to do when you are losing a debate.
“or just the black guy’s?”
Regardless of color, race or creed, this dude sucks as president. Who with a sane mind wants more of this? The guy is awful man. Get off the black pity,or making up for history..heck..even the blacks know this guy is awful…
Yeah, don’t you guys “play the race card” as Dublin Dawg “maybe he was a beneficiary of good ‘ol affirmative action” plays the racist card. How utterly laughable.
@52
WingNutDaily. Color me surprised. This claptrap has been so completely and thoroughly debunked I don’t see why our hosts allow you to entertain it.
The Republicans campaigned on a platform of creating jobs. Where are the jobs, DD?
Back to the subject at hand. Armstrong, Edwards, Bell. It’s that simple, folks.
dave – just for the record, when I called you “smart guy” I was being sarcastic!
Art – uh, Obama is the one who campaigned on jobs creation…..remember or do you Libs have selective amnesia??
It is so easy for some people to take the simplistic approach to life. They never even bother to question.
What you are blaming on Obama is being in charge when 30 years of bad decisions came home to roost. No President has ever been perfect and they all in this half century have contributed to what is happening today. Certainly Bush/Cheney had 8 long hard years to try and figure out what was coming and they failed as miserably as anyone could have. That Obama has not been able to fix it all, plug all the holes, repair all the damage and right the ship is true but this idiotic, simplistic, “this dude sucks” is as stupid and childish as it is wrong. ANYONE who was President when it hit the fan was going to be hammered. Bush caught the beginning of the end and Obama has had to take it full force, but if all you can add to the conversation is such pitiful prattle, maybe you need to leave the hard stuff to the grown-ups and find a less intelligent blog to ruin.
Regarding the actual thread topic, the more I look at it, the more apparent it becomes how elections are, to a very real extent “rigged”. The backing or animosity can make or break a candidate right out of the gate. Debates, events, appearances are all just window dressing but they can be manipulated too. There is something seriously wrong with the politics of this nation. If this crisis teaches us nothing else, it should clue folks in to that problem. Having a representative government can only work for us when we choose good representatives and all the staged events, canned remarks, stump speeches and screened questions do so little to inform that decision. The best government money can buy is not serving us well and the loudest lunatic will not be an improvement.
So, apparently those who have made an issue of Obama’s birth certificate and college transcripts have not made the same issue of the same documents for their favorite white candidates. I understand now.
Meanwhile, Ralph Smith, a lunatic-fringe Republican, was too afraid to show up for a Chamber of Commerce forum and be embarrassed by his poor performance, so he asked his friends at the Chamber to invite candidates from further away and pretend that they didn’t invite him because they didn’t have space. How pathetic.
“The Republicans campaigned on a platform of creating jobs. Where are the jobs, DD?”
The answer is easy. Obama and the senate stand in the way of job creation. When Reps. take the Senate and White house next election the situation will drastically improve. As long as the Dems are in control, the status quo will remain.
“or just the black guy’s?”
John – You mean President Obama? Or do you go around calling all African Americans “Black guys”? Do you call Caucasian men “white guys”? Me thinks your true colors (no pun intended) are showing John.
I think one of the reasons liberals and Obama supporters feel that racism is at play is that they can find no real and legitimate reason to challenge the policies of the President. If you want to argue about how he has tried to fix the financial nightmare he inherited then do so, if you want to challenge the finer points of the Universal Healthcare Bill, then do so, if you want to challenge the Kenynesian economic theory that his advisors and administration have employed to turn the economy around, then do so. But when you talk about birth certificates, school transcripts, being a secret muslim there is nothing that any reasonable person can conclude but that you are either ill versed in the particular issues I raised or you are a racist. So Dublin Dawg, Jack, Tripp and others, which is it? Are you a racist or simply dim?
“no real and legitimate reason to challenge the policies of the President”
Do you not see the situation this country is in? Obamas policies have failed miserably, and there is no legit reason to challange failed policies? Not only is it our right to challange failed policies but our duty as citizens. Actually I think when you are for a presidents policies because he is black, you are just as racist as someone who is against them for the same reason. Obama does NOT get a free pass just because he is black. And the old racist tag just because your against his policies just doesn’t fly.
Yes, we “see the situation this country is in” but we have enough sense to know that is not due solely or even largely to President Obama. Your refusal to believe that 30 years of bad chickens have come home to roost is your problem and like Earl says, the points you all beat to death are not valid political or policy debate, they are childish, bigoted and lunatic points that make you look ridiculous. No he does not “get a free pass”, and he also does not get an anvil tied around his neck to make him heavier than he is on the blame scale. You already squandered your credibility and you will not be getting it back
” Are you a racist or simply dim?”
Can they only pick one?
DublinDawg
I might worry about your sarcasm if you actually knew what it was or how to use it.
“childish, bigoted and lunatic points”
Look, anyone named Hussein would be subject to questioning every time he got on a plane. It is perfectly legit to question his birth origin and religion. Hussein is a common Moslem name. In addition his school performance is fair game as was every president including Bush. When you are president you must withstand scrutiny, and you can’t holler “racism” every time it happens. It really doesn’t matter who got us here. The question is, who will get us out, and it is obvious that Hussein Obama doesn,t have a clue. Hey, maybe since they called Bush “W” we should call Obama “H”
I love it when you prove my point Jack. Thanks.
“Obama and the senate stand in the way of job creation”
Exactly how are they “standing in the way”? Please be specific.
“Obama is the one who campaigned on jobs creation”
And the Republicans didn’t? Talk about your selective amnesia. I ask again, where are the jobs the Republicans promised us?
(Start about 4 minutes in, and be sure and check out the teleprompter.)
.
“Exactly how are they “standing in the way”? Please be specific.”
1. Obama care..Uncertain of the future responsibilities under this bill force buisness to refrain from hiring.
2. Over regulation of buisness…New regs from banks to the coal industry costs jobs… i saw a sign in West Va. that said it all..Obama No Work Zone..
3. Highest corporate tax rate on earth….At 35% buisness goes elsewhere
4. Wanting to increase taxes on job creators…the more taxes these folks pay, the less money they have to hire.
These are just a few of the ways…
“Wanting to increase taxes on job creators…the more taxes these folks pay, the less money they have to hire.”
Blah blah, blah blah. Do you honestly think anyone buys this weird “job creator” veneration you people engage in? Simply put, there are no “job creators”.
And please learn to spell “business” if you’re going to use the word in every sentence.
“These are just a few of the ways…”
Lifted right off of Fox Noise. You’re a good little sheeple.
Jack, you are like a child that has stubbed his toe and now wants to hate all sidewalks forever!
I call BS on all of your points:
1. “Obamacare” has not even fully gone into effect ergo the affects cannot be measured (and most Conservatives think it will be overturned or not funded so that is a red herring) AND we have been losing jobs for over a decade.
2. Business has complained about “over regulation” since the Triangle Shirt Factory days when there was virtually none. It is also a red herring talking point with no validity that can ever explain the lack of hiring. Businesses are not regulated nor taxed our of business or hiring. Scapegoat.
3. We only have a high corporate tax rate on paper, virtually no business pays any such thing. Most small businesses are pass-thru and do not pay ANY corporate taxes. Many huge corps pay nothing as well.
4. We had plenty of boom years and decades for jobs when taxes were exponentially higher on the wealthy and business class and the only reason it is a problem now is that we have passed the tipping point on taxes and are into negative return on investment as profits take precedence. You have fallen for the myth that investors and entrepreneurs will not go for it if they cannot make a mint and that is not and never has been true. You make the wealthy and powerful sound stingy/miserly and dumb, they are not.
On “job creators”…
“The next time you hear anyone say ‘job creator,’ I want you to picture The Situation from Jersey Shore. Yes, The Situation made $5 million dollars last year, and if he has to pay a little more in taxes, it won’t mean he’s creating fewer jobs. It will mean a tiny fraction of his money actually pays for the government that works to keep him alive. The EPA that contains his oil runoff. The Postal Service that delivers his body wax. The Bureau of Weights and Measures who weigh his dumbbells. The Centers for Disease Control that provides a steady supply of penicillin. And the military, who keep the Taliban away. Because if a single human proves that America is asking for it, you’re looking at him.” –Bill Maher
Hilarious!! Right on Bill Maher.
“And please learn to spell “business” if you’re going to use the word in every sentence”
Don’t worry about the spelling, address the point. My customers are quite wealthy and keep me busy year in and year out. I want them to have all the money they can possibly have to keep me in the lifestyle Im accustomed to.
“Obamacare” has not even fully gone into effect ergo the affects cannot be measured”
Baloney… the fact that business is unsure of the full impact of this bill makes them hesitate to hire. If you don’t know the full cost of hiring an employee, it makes total sense to put off hiring.
“It is also a red herring talking point with no validity that can ever explain the lack of hiring.”
The more obstacles put in front of business, the less productive, and the less successful they are. In some cases regs can literally put a company out of business..do you deny that companies going out of business cost jobs? Do you deny that higher costs reduce expansion?
“You have fallen for the myth that investors and entrepreneurs will not go for it if they cannot make a mint”
No one is going to invest in anything unless there is a high likelyhood of profit.
JackM, I think your points are all nonsense. How shall I address them? The right keeps repeating them as though repetition makes them more valid. It doesn’t.
“No one is going to invest in anything unless there is a high likelyhood of profit.”
Not relevant. We’re not talking about “likelyhood of profit”. We’re talking about the amount that’s retained once taxes are paid. There is zero indication that the investor who thinks that 85% after cap gains are paid is good would turn up his nose at 75%.
“I want them to have all the money they can possibly have to keep me in the lifestyle Im accustomed to.”
If I were the “lol” type…this would merit an LOL.
“Let the businesses keep more of THEIR money and they will reinvest and hire”
Baloney. That’s the same claptrap we heard when we foolishly extended the Bush tax cuts for millionaires. Where are the jobs they were supposed to provide?
“unsure of the full impact of this bill makes them hesitate to hire”
But you said companies would drop coverage altogether. You wingnuts need to get your story straight.
“There is zero indication that the investor who thinks that 85% after cap gains are paid is good would turn up his nose at 75%”
First of all those numbers almost never happen…that kind of profit is rare. But if the difference was 5% compared to 15% which are more realistic numbers..the investor would balk. There is NO QUESTION that regs and high taxes hurt business.
“But you said companies would drop coverage altogether”
Many are already doing just that already. And a recent report by Kaiser shows the price of Healthcare already going because of the impending health bill.This bill will mirror H’s presidency.. a pure disaster.
Ok Jack? Those numbers ALWAYS HAPPEN. What kind of “profit” are you talking about? Capital gains tax is 15%. This has no bearing on the rate of return. It’s a percentage that’s taken off whatever the gain is. So I don’t know what you mean by “those numbers almost never happen” because they happen every single day.
And at this point the entire discussion is stupid, because one side of it has absolutely no idea what they’re talking about.
Jack, I am going to give you credit for being able and willing to “remove all doubt”, but seriously, you are just flat wrong. You keep repeating memes that are well worn propaganda but they cannot be proven for a reason. There are so many economists who have done the research and looked for the correlation, it is simply not there.
There are many reasons people invest and some of the really wealthy people even do so just so they do not “give it to uncle”. You cannot be serious that a 2-5% increase in tax rates would cause any cessation of investment or hiring that is just plain silly.
Many companies already have been dropping insurance that is why so many people were without it and “Obamacare” came into being! Rates can and do go up for no discernible reason and blaming the health care law is simply not a feasible excuse. The Kaiser folks admitted same.
You either need to do not research that is not propaganda or at least stop being a mouthpiece for it.
“Public Backs Obama in Stimulus Fight”
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/02/09/gallup_public_backs_obama_in_s.html
“A Decade of Lost Jobs”
http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/decade-lost-jobs
“Wealth, Income, and Power”
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
http://www.presimetrics.com/blog/ Virtually anything he writes is good.
I am not asking you to believe one word on any of these links, I am asking you to offer proof or sources to refute them.
“So I don’t know what you mean by “those numbers almost never happen”
Do you know what profit is? It is the money left over after all overhead and taxes are paid. No major company is making 75% profit. Have you ever had any kind of buisness? You think Mcdonalds makes 75 cents for every $1 burger…….cmon.
My insurance premiums have been going up drastically every year lomg before Obama’s healthcare plan went into effect. You want to blame that on George Bush? Just look at all the VP’s & Manager’s Carilion has on their payroll. That’s part of the reason health insurance keep going up.
“a recent report by Kaiser”
Fox’s new math said that “20% of the 9% increase was attributable to the reform.” Get out your calculator, Jack, then change the channel. You’re getting as bad as your sister.
Jack..it’s not 75% profit…it’s investors getting to KEEP 85% of THEIR profit.
Ok illustration.
Investor invests -$100
Investor cashes out at- $110
Investor made- 10%
Investor pays 15% cap gains on that 10% – $1.50
Investor retains 85% of profit – $8.50
Final number – $108.50
If you change that 15% to 25%, the final number is $107.50. So if you’re going to argue that raising capital gains tax means that the investor who’s happy to make $8.50 on the deal will turn up their nose at $7.50, I’m going to call BS on it.