2012.01.27
Elswick’s ‘it may be a little discombobulated’ remarks
Ed Elswick (at right), at a previous supervisors meeting.
Roanoke County Supervisor Ed Elswick has become a champion of the anti-ICLEI movement in Roanoke County, where some conservatives have called for the locality to end its $1,200-a-year membership with the sustainability nonprofit group.
Other local boards in Virginia have faced similar lobbying efforts, but few governments have formally addressed the issue.
Elswick spoke for about 15 minutes at the board of supervisors meeting Tuesday night. He addressed his distrust of the program, calling it a United Nations conspiracy. But he also asked for programs that would help county residents save energy. In the end, the board chose to affirm its participation in ICLEI by a 3-2 vote.
But not before Elswick’s voiced his litany of discontent, which ranged widely, from China’s foreign-exchange reserves to children who are lazy. You can watch video of the board meeting or read the transcript online or by continuing here.
“I guess I’ve been called a lot of things, a maverick in the paper. Me and my neighbors have been called zealots and nuts over the windmill issue. And tonight I’m part of a fringe element. I’m so proud of myself.
“Somebody once remarked, I kinda like Ed, but don’t know what he’s gonna say. A little truth to that.
“The cost to ICLEI is totally irrelevant. Twelve hundred bucks is nothing. But the impact of ICLEI is very relevant. You don’t notice it. Some of it’s insidious and some of the things that ICLEI’s doing in getting people like us and mayors of a lot of cities in the country to become a part of the ICLEI initiatives are things that our government refused to do.
“We didn’t opt into the [inaudible] conditions. We have so many good, capable people on the county staff. Highly qualified, highly paid. They have done a good job with the zoning, except for maybe going a little overboard on the rural areas. And the people on RCLEAR, I’m sure, are dedicated and fine citizens.
“And I think that we ought to be able to use our own brains and our own ingenuity. We are part of the United States. Who do we have to ask how to do almost anything?
“Now I applaud the RCLEAR volunteers. I agree we ought to try to save energy. I do want people to stop calling each other names. I’ve been called names. The tea party’s been criticized. I could do a lot. I could name some names and situations that would be embarrassing for those who advocate ICLEI. But I’m not gonna do it. I don’t think that’s the way we ought to conduct business. We ought to present the facts. And you’re entitled to opinions. You can present those too. It really helps a lot if people present facts so we can make intelligent decisions.
“ICLEI and the UN initiatives are convincing. They sound good on paper and they’re a lot like some of the things we’re already doing.
“If you look close at the involvement with any organization that is a world organization, you should take a good look at it and what’s it ultimate objective and make sure that whatever you’re doing with that organization is in our national interest.
“We send a lot of information to ICLEI. It goes to ICLEI headquarters in Bonn, Germany. We just awarded Trane $1.4 million contract to improve our energy usage. Trane has software, and from what I understand it’s $2,000. But if it weren’t that, I’m sure for $1.4 million we could get a lot of help out of Trane. And that is a good initiative on the part of Roanoke County, to try to improve how we use all our various pieces of equipment.
“But this piece of paper is the report that we sent the ICLEI headquarters. And it said that we did 66 residential energy audits and every one of those people improved their houses. Every one of them. And we saved 198 tons of CO2.
“Now do you really believe that of all those houses where those energy audits were conducted? A lot of those improvements had to cost a lot of money and not a lot of people have a lot of money. You really believe that all of them implemented what the recommendations were?
“And then we handed out pamphlets at a conference. Paper pamphlets. And we assumed that the hundred people that took those pamphlets on how to improve their energy usage went right home and did what that pamphlet told them to.
“I get pamphlets when I go to conferences and they usually go in the first trash can as I go out the door. We saved a hundred tons of CO2 by handing out pamphlets. If that were possible, then we ought to be standing on every street corner in Roanoke handing out pamphlets. We would save millions of tons of CO2.
“Same thing was true [when] they gave out 100 driving energy tips. Be consistent, be steady, don’t hot rod it. All of those people did what that pamphlet told them to and we saved another 100 tons. And if any of you have observed drivers driving any more efficiently, then I’d like to know about it. Because I haven’t seen anyone change their driving habits.
“And so, you know what happened to that report, though. It says that Roanoke County saved those tons of carbon dioxide. The report – I assume – went to Germany. Germany then goes to the UN and ICLEI headquarters in Germany goes to whoever has money and is willing to throw it around when somebody tells them they’re doing something green without checking it out, and therefore ICLEI headquarters gets tons of money.
“They had enough money to send two of our people, Anne Marie [Green] and Charlotte [Moore], to a conference. Now you send two people to a conference — and I don’t know where it was, probably Las Vegas — then that’s probably 10 times what our dues were. Where did they get that money? If we only pay $1,200 a year in dues, then how can they afford to spend five or $6,000 to send two of our people to a conference?
“Something doesn’t make sense. Any other localities are signing ICLEI agreements to do certain annual reporting and perform certain actions as dictated by the agreement. Some of them our government has refused to abide by and to enter into. My problem: I don’t like to see us compromise our integrity. We can’t send out reports — as far as I’m concerned — that have absolutely no validity and have not been checked out.
“And I don’t like that. I appreciate the people in Roanoke County and the neighborhood where I live as being honest, upfront people. And everybody has an opinion and they ought to be able to express it.
“But I don’t appreciate dreaming up numbers as if we were doing something that we’re not doing. There must be some pressure somewhere from somebody to show some kind of results. And obviously your reported data goes to somebody.
“And there’s a 30 percent UN recommended reduction in energy. Well, you know, as one of our speakers pointed out, we just adopted that number without any rationale as to how we’re going to get there. We’re just going to save 30 percent of our energy.
“Well, [flicks off lightswitch on wall], I just saved energy. You know. But did those pamphlets do that? Nooo, I don’t think so.
“So, if you look at any of these initiatives, look at a war. If it’s a UN sanctioned war, who fights it? Not a lot of countries. Primarily the free countries.
“And who will respond to a UN initiated ICLEI-type program? Only the free countries. The third world countries, they don’t even have time. They’re fighting all the time.
They’re not going to abide by these. They’re not going to enter into that.
“And who pays for the wars? We pay most of it. We allow the UN people to take over New York City and do things that citizens there can’t do and not get prosecuted for it.
“We look at who’s got the money in the world. China has over $3 trillion in cash and liquid asset reserves. Japan: 900 billion. Us: 140 billion.
“Yet we’re putting out the money to feed people through UN initiatives. We’re called upon when anything needs to be done because we’re the United States and we should be on the same level as everybody else even though we’re busting, even though we’re working hard to establish a standard of living that the world envies. And they want to take it away from us and give it to somebody else.
“If you look at some of those programs — Salvation Army is my favorite charity. The person who runs the Salvation army has a salary of $13,000 a year. The UN agency, the guy that runs that gets one million three. Now who is really in it for the money and who’s in it to help people?
“I’m just telling you the notes that I made, folks, and I think locally we ought to be honest with each other. And if we’re going to do something, let’s do something. Let’s not pretend that we did.
“Let’s do our best to work with coal companies and AEP to get the coal plants converted to natural gas, which we have tons of. If all of the subsidies that government is putting out to various organizations had gone to converting the coal-fired plants to natural gas, we would have cut the emissions by an incredible amount.
“Yet we just throw money at untried technologies. We try, denude another mountaintop. That’ll solve the fact that coalminers denuded one. Let’s denude another one and it’ll counteract each other I guess.
“The water authority. They’re taking methane from the landfill and they will generate enough electricity from that landfill that they won’t have to buy any. And that’s a good project. That’s not the only project that can be done.
“You look at our schools. Cars are lined up for miles to pick up their kids, and yet the school buses are half empty. Some of that is obviously legitimate. And don’t anybody get mad at me because you pick up your kids. Legitimate ones ought to be allowed.
“Our kids are getting lazy. We don’t even let them walk up the driveway anymore. And so if we had an initiative to talk to those parents and say, folks, why are you doing this? Let’s save some gasoline.
“I got a neighbor who just installed solar panel. They’re built for electricity and November is $20. The bill in December is $50. And they were on vacation. So solar panels are a good thing. But to get them, we’re gonna have to find some company to work with who will give us a deal. Because right now, they’re way too expensive for most of us to afford. They would never pay for themselves.
“So you got my opinion on quite a few elements, and it may be a little discombobulated. But I don’t think we that ought to let anybody come in and tell us what to do. If we can’t do it ourselves, then we need to sink.”
Elect bitter, discontented citizens and you get bitter, discontented politicians. There is no magic here.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — January 27, 2012 @ 11:37 am
You gotta respect him for keeping it real. He really does seem to want to do what he feels is the right thing.
Comment by belle — January 27, 2012 @ 12:56 pm
No magic at all Sandi,
just signals that something is wrong about the way we are conducting ourselves in government at local, state, federal, and global levels.
Comment by Eldon — January 27, 2012 @ 1:03 pm
That is to say it might not hurt us to try to understand Mr. Elswick’s points.
Comment by Eldon — January 27, 2012 @ 1:05 pm
Whew…just when I thought Montgomery County has a lock on loonies in government. It’s good to know we don’t suffer alone. My condolences to the residents of Roanoke County.
Comment by Montgomery County Residen — January 27, 2012 @ 1:12 pm
It made sense to me, and Mr. Elswick has some valid points. It would seem we would have people in the county who could create and implement what is needed without any other group. What he said about the reports being accurate seems on target also. What was sent in does not seem at all fact based. Logically it would seem that the county could get in trouble over that. Mr. Elswick does seem to examine the facts. Where are the comments from the other members?
Comment by Maggie — January 27, 2012 @ 2:40 pm
Supervisor Elswick’s remarks may not be quite so organized and polished as if he’d had a teleprompter, but the gist of his words is spot-on. His reasons are exactly why the US has not, and should not, sign on to the Kyoto Protocol.
Why are we allowing what literally amounts to foreign interests to gain a toehold in what will ultimately be dictation of our actions? This abdication of our local sovereignty is appalling, but not surprising.
I’m all for saving energy and developing alternate forms, but let’s allow the private sector to do it. Government engineering of behavior never works. Government exists to protect me from others infringing upon my Natural (not government-granted) Rights. It does not exist to further causes or incent behaviors of a specific type.
I’d bet that at least half of those parents idling away gasoline in their SUV’s, waiting to pick up their kids, whose bus would drive right by the child’s house, would be all for UN dictation of conservation measures or the Kyoto Protocol.
I’m glad Windsor Hills has a Supervisor with the values of Elswick and I count myself as a proud supporter of him.
Comment by SoRoCoBen — January 27, 2012 @ 3:01 pm
There must have been a point in there somewhere. Or maybe not.
Comment by dave — January 27, 2012 @ 4:23 pm
Tell me exactly sorocoben just what are Mr. Elswicks “values”? Are they in this bablle? Please give us specific “values” tht make you so proud of him.
Comment by knowjoe — January 27, 2012 @ 4:58 pm
Is anything compulsory that ICLEI recommends? I don’t understand how an outside organization that has no authority over RoCo is perceived as a threat by some. Elswick has no understanding of the position he holds if he thinks some outside organization has the ability to mandate change. Can anyone provide a single example of how that organization has forced RoCo to do anything? Not wanting to pay an organization money on fiscal grounds is understandable. Not wanting to associate with them because they’ll take over is ludicrous.
Comment by Rick — January 27, 2012 @ 5:02 pm
Rick,
It’s more then just Roanoke County. Watch the videos linked to on this page:
http://www.virginiagreenmenace.com/?page_id=488
In these video’s Donna Holt explains Agenda 21 and ICLEI in depth.
Comment by John — January 27, 2012 @ 6:30 pm
Eldon when you understand what Elswick means you let the rest of us know. In fact, maybe you should tell him. Even he knows he has no ability to communicate his constituents interests, and therefore can’t represent them effectively. That’s why he abruptly walked out of the Board meeting and left you and your neighbors totally unrepresented during the wind energy zoning debate several months ago. Go back and read the initiatives he got elected on and tell me ONE that he’s delivered on. Remember the saying “you deserve the government you get”? You folks on the mountain must be very deserving.
Comment by knowjoe — January 27, 2012 @ 8:25 pm
Rick, Roanoke County voluntarily joined ICLEI in 2007. In order for the County to receive ICLEI Milestones 1 through 5 they must submit documentation to ICLEI that ICLEI audits for completeness and compliance. Documentation indicating how the County is reducing CO2 emissions in the County by 3% a year until 2020 is what is mainly submitted to ICLEI. One of the first things the County had to send ICLEI was a climate action plan. It is my understanding the County never officially voted on or adopted a formal (and detailed) climate action plan. Instead, I believe they sent ICLEI data on how much would be spent on various programs to promote energy reduction (thus reducing CO2 emissions)and that was adequate documentation to ICLEI. Programs like the home and business energy auditing and the Save A Ton campaign. The problem is it appears that just by having the Save A Ton education program and the recommendations from these energy auditing programs there appears to be some mystery method they are using to convert education and recommendations into actual tons of CO2 emission reduction to help the County achieve ICLEI Milestones. How can they make the claim that just because someone receives this information/education/recommendations that they have all gone out and done what they have learned and saved an objectively documentable amount of CO2 emissions? What happens if the County is short of meeting its 30% total CO2 reduction by 2020? Well, that is when it is possible they may start making certain energy/CO2 emissions reductions mandatory for Citizens and business in the County through legislation, etc. So, in order for the County to get what it wants (ICLEI Milestone Certificates 1 through 5) it must meet the mandatory requirements set forth by ICLEI. So, by default, ICLEI policy is indirectly influencing County Citizens and businesses. The County becomes the soft law enforcer of ICLEI’s requirements.
Comment by Bill Gregory — January 28, 2012 @ 12:18 am
I see your point, God forbid anyone have any influence on anyone doing the right thing. Scary stuff no doubt. Would to the Lord, this was a real issue that we needed to be concerned about.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — January 28, 2012 @ 3:30 pm
How many of you commentors actually listened to the Board Mmeeting tapes before giving your “opinions”
Comment by mj — January 29, 2012 @ 10:48 am
I watched the tape, as painful as it was. Butchies comments were just about as kooky as Elswicks. With everything going on in Roanoke County they spend two hours on this?
Comment by knowjoe — January 29, 2012 @ 7:34 pm
Well stated, Bill Gregory.
For those such as ‘knowjoe’ unable to understand Ed Elswick’s views, I offer this:
Next time you ask yourself the seemingly unanswerable question of ‘How in the world did we get here?’ you now have your answer. By small, incremental steps. How did the income tax code grow to the size of 3.4 million words? The Bible, by contrast has ‘only’ about 775,000. When first implemented in 1913, the income tax code was scarcely a few pages. 100 years of incrementalism has led to, by many accounts, 60,000 pages today.
The voluntary relinquishing of local sovereignty is troubling. “But it’s for a good cause/reason/issue etc!” you say. LBJ’s War on Poverty was a noble cause as well. After 45 years and likely trillions of dollars, poverty is still the scourge it always was. However we now have governmental departments too numerous to mention, ravenously consuming tax dollars each and every year, all dedicated to ‘fighting poverty’. Oh yeah, and there’s still a ton of poverty.
Government’s place is not to mandate which light bulbs to buy, how many liters of water your toilet can use, or how many miles to the gallon your vehicle must achieve. Government’s main job is protecting your rights. When the free exercise of my rights starts to interfere with your rights, we as a people have agreed, via ratification of the Constitution, that government may step in and restrict my exercise of those rights.
The collective good, as defined by government (or more usually, a select few in charge) as concerns limited resources, cannot be a basis for exercise of governmental power. The rationing of scarce resources must be done through the private sector, through basic economics and the laws of supply and demand. One person, a group, or even a government very rarely has the knowledge, foresight and intelligence to make decisions about who will best use resources. Economics however, makes these decisions constantly. Economics is the original ‘crowd-sourcing’.
If I want to burn my light bulbs 24 hours a day, my electric bill will rise accordingly. The watt I burn today will not restrict the watt my neighbor down the street or across the globe will burn tomorrow (unless government rations that watt) Basic economics shows that long before we’ll have a scarcity of electricity, in which a limited amount of watts needs to be allocated, my 24hr. lightburning self will have been forced to cut my consumption due to higher prices. Everyone’s prices will not rise drastically due to my singular failure to conserve watts. As a matter of fact, history shows that long before watts become scarce, someone will invent a new way to supply those watts more cheaply. Because their method will become profitable. This example can be seen today in the subsidies of electric cars and green energy. These things are not yet profitable. Either the price of resources needs to rise so new technologies can compete, or the price of the new technology needs to fall to be competitive. But injecting governmental influence into the process inexorably skews the natural laws of economics.
Comment by SoRoCo Ben — January 29, 2012 @ 9:15 pm
I think that Elswick was offering what he felt to be genuine solutions for an issue that is obviously important to the other board members. I understand him wanting to work out energy issues without being under the hand of ICLEI. Less interference the better, in my opinion. Seems like a waste of money in these times just to be a member of a club that the UN is running. We are member of the UN on a national level. No need for them to start pecking at vulnerable localities.
Put this into reason 418 why we should no longer be a member of the UN on the level that we are.
Comment by belle — January 30, 2012 @ 9:44 am
I asked sorocoben one specific question, to tell us one issue Elswick ran on and delivered results, and we get a 5 paragraph missive that evoked the Bible up in the first few sentences. So, since you refuse to answer my question I’ll ask another. What does the Bible say about ICLEI?
Comment by knowjoe — January 30, 2012 @ 9:45 am
knowjoe, you are incorrect. Please read your own posts before you respond.
You asked Eldon this question in post 12. You asked ME what values Elswick possesses, and if they were expressed ‘in his bablle’, as you so eloquently wrote, that make me so proud of him.
It’s also interesting that you’re quick to try to color this with my ‘evoking’ the Bible. Pretty anemic attempt at painting me as a right-wing zealot. I simply used the Bible as a thick book that most would be familiar with. I could have easily used War and Peace (560,000 words, albeit in Russian) or, HEAVEN FORBID! Atlas Shrugged (645,000 words). I apologize in advance; Atlas Shrugged is probably more offensive to you than the Bible.
In my opinion, Ed Elswick sees ICLEI for what it is. Yet another gaping maw into which we throw taxpayer dollars. A feel-good organization that spends other peoples money with little to no effect. He also sees ICLEI as a way to slowly infiltrate local government and gradually allow the UN to dictate actions based on green initiatives. He mentions, although not specifically, the fact that ICLEI requires things that ‘”our government”, meaning the federal government, “has refused to abide by and enter into”. What he’s referring to is what I mentioned in a previous post. The Kyoto Protocol. If you’ve read the mandates and requirements of the Protocol, as I have, you’d understand the implications of allowing the UN to dictate to the US largely unproven, tremendously expensive (and punitive to the US) restrictions.
Some of Elswick’s values, as I read them are:
Limited government
Not relinquishing local sovereignty
Not going along to get along
If you can’t understand where he (and I) stand with regards to our values not matching up with ICLEI, then I’m afraid we’re finished here.
Comment by SoRoCo Ben — January 30, 2012 @ 10:51 pm
I understand perfectly what anti-government folks like Elswick and his supporters are saying and precisely where they stand. I also happen to think that the molehill issues you are trying to turn into mountains, do not begin to address the problems of this locality much less this nation and have so little to do with the UN and outside control as to be as laughable as I find them to be.
The money and influence in even local politics is what SHOULD be concerning every citizen of this nation, not the recommendations to leave a smaller carbon footprint or other feel good environmental initiative. You are literally fiddling, distracting and misdirecting while “Rome burns” and we turn into a Plutocracy. The UN is the LEAST of our worries. Period.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — January 31, 2012 @ 8:15 am