Michael Vick signs with the Eagles
Michael Vick, former Virginia Tech standout who was convicted of organizing a dogfighting ring, has signed with the Philadelphia Eagles.
I for one am disappointed in the team from Philadelphia. Yes, Vick did his time, but he also demonstrated that he is a reprehensible human being. The Eagles, by signing him, demonstrate a disregard for the character of the people in their organization and who they elevate to be a role model. They have admitted that a sense of ethics and personal responsibility are not important in their players, in the people they elevate to be role models.
Zach Leibowitz at the Washington Post puts it very well:
There comes a point where character shouldn’t be just an afterthought. It should matter. It should be ranked at the top of your list, like Brian Westbrook on your fantasy football draft board. These are the intangibles that matter in football. They matter in the locker room and in the community.
August 14, 2009 - 10:36 AM
I think fathering children out of wedlock and not living with them is far worse for society than abusing dogs. If we treated that offense the same as Vick’s, half the NFL would be suspended. Those men never do time or apologize. Vick has done so. What more can he do? I’m a big believer in second chances.
Suzie,
A NFL player kills a man dead in Florida and is found to be DUI and has marijuana in his systemand he serves 24 days. He has been suspended for 1 year by the league. Vick’s suspension was in effect 2 years because he pulled more time. One crime involved dogs, the other a human being. I don’t think we are the only ones who see this as less than objective.
I don’t excuse what Vick did. But I do find that the quality of forgiveness is something I am capable of and I think he has been given a chance to resume his life and I applaud it.
If he was a brick layer none of this would be news. It just happens that his occupation is one of professional football player. He is going to try to resume his chosen profession and it won’t be easy.
I am rooting for Vick, the person, to be a better man after all of this. And if he is that, he may just also be better at his profession too.
I’m with Bob H on this one. Where’s the outcry when pro players kill people, rape women and commit further crimes against human beings?
I’ve never been a Vick fan. What he did is horrendous. But he paid his debt to society. Whether he makes it in Philadelphia, a tough town on players, is another story.
I also disagree with this “role model” stuff. I know of no parents who encourage their children to think of pro players as role models.
Luanne, the parents you know might not encourage their children to think of pro players as role models, but that doesn’t mean young people — and some not so young — don’t do it anyway. I doubt many parents encourage their children to listen to gangsta music, but the kids do anyway. You might not like that these thugs are role models, but they are.
As for the outcry over others, I think those who do the things you cite are equally deplorable. Teams should not hire those players either.
I guess it comes down to whether one thinks character matters for professional athletes. I do.
I would think that people who cannot be unaware of what people in this country spend on their “pets” would have a better grasp on this whole issue.
I do not accept that thinking because he “came from that culture” is an allowable excuse for a man (beating a woman or his children or) torturing dogs for “sport”.
It is uncanny the people and the things some people will forgive and why, but that is a personal choice and not something any one of us has control over. If you want to forgive him, do so. If you want to buy his merch, get his autograph, cheer him on, do so.
There is no reason to insist or even ask that others who feel differently join you.
People have a very special relationship with some animals and dogs are number one in my book. The rescues, the sacrifice and the lengths I go to for my animals is my choice and it is out of love. I cannot see an animal hurt or tortured and “forgive” the perpetrator and I make no apology for that sentiment.
A big part of this is why I like hockey and golf. There aren’t many situations when there’s a negative golf or hockey story, save for maybe the Sean Avery issue last year over what he referred to an ex gf as. But, I’m hard-pressed to think of any golfer or hockey player involved in anything like a drunken manslaughter with a car, a murder, or obvious animal abuse. I know there have been some folks like John Daly with obvious self-control issues, and the Rick Tocchet gambling deal, but they seem more rare in those sports than say the NFL, NBA, or MLB.
Hey Christian
When the RT ups your salary to $6 million a year, our kids will make you a role model. It’s all about the Benjamins.
if you say that you think that character matters for professional athletes, then give him a chance to show with his character that he’s learned from his mistakes. what a shame it would be to not give him a chance to use his famous name to try to make a positive comeback and create a lot of good for people instead of letting his story end with dog fighting, when so many other MUCH WORSE things happen in the lives of NFL players every day, and go unpunished. i don’t think anyone is excusing or forgetting what Vick did, but a lot of people want to see him learn from it and come back and changed and better person.
character should matter, but it shouldn’t matter any more for a professional athlete than it does for any other job. being a pro athlete doesn’t make you a better person, it doesn’t require a better “character” than other careers. i wonder what having a good character gets you at the end of an NFL play at the bottom of the pile? i bet that a lot of people would be pretty disgusted by the character that goes on down there!
had Vick’s crime been against football, then sure, keep him out of pro football. but his crime was against animals, and part of his punishment is that he’s never allowed to own an animal again, plus all of the jail time and millions of dollars he’s lost. he’s just going back to his chosen profession, just like anyone else would try to do if they had just been released from jail. he wasn’t “automatically” welcomed back, he still had to convince someone to give him a chance. luckily he did, and i for one hope that he makes a giant positive out of this second chance.
I personally cannot stand dogs, I’m not sure why either. I just flat don’t like them and won’t have one. But, I would never do anything like what MV did either, it’s just morallt reprehensible like so many other things people get busted for, but receive a lax punishment for their celebrity stature. I’m a cat person, and when a neighbor of ours threatened to shoot one of our cats (while we were present no less), I got the police inolved. They said if it happened again to call and they’d arrest him. Thankfully, he didn’t and we moved to a place where all of our neighbors have pets, and nothing like that would happen. For whatever reason, the guy who threatened to shoot our cat had a bunch of right-wing stickers on the back of his Subaru…but all of our neighbors now are liberals who displayed Obama signs last year. Weird, I never thought about that until now.
Sandi, I dearly love my cats, but as Bob H says, animals are not humans. The left isn’t nearly as angry at players who have actually killed humans, then returned to play.
Other John, Unfortunately, the background of many players in the NFL, NBA and MLB seems to correlate with criminal activity.
Suzie, I am sorry that you are so partisan you see this as a political argument. There are many dog worshipers on ‘the right’. One has brought up a proposal for a tax deduction for “pet care”!
I love and have rescued cats over the years as well, a tiny grey lady RULES my household and my dogs. I feel the exact same way about anyone who abuses ANY animal. Whether I have one or not is not really relevant to me.
You are correct, animals are not humans. Pets are far superior. Much more loyal, loving, forgiving and nurturing than any of us deserve.
I do not know where you get the idea that I or anyone who finds this person reprehensible also forgives the other celebrities or athletes who have committed crimes. When the thread covers them, I have not said they did not deserve the punishment and have never cheered or asked forgiveness for one of them. I do distinguish between an accident and deliberate torture, but that is all. Moral superiority of crimes/criminals is not a favorite conversation.
Cruelty is cruelty. The species of the victim is irrelevant.
And an honest job is an honest job. Whether the worker is a jerk or not, is irrelevant.
I don’t see how Michael Vick playing football has anything to do with Michael Vick engaging in dogfighting. If someone like him, Pat Robertson, or Bill O’Reilly is a “role model” for somebody, that’s unfortunate; but it’s a failure of our educational system, and I hardly think it’s the responsibility of a private corporation or it’s customers to correct it.
Sandi, The argument is political in that the left seems to look upon animals and speak about them more favorably than they do other humans, just as you just did. “Pets are far superior”.
OK, Suzie, have it your way, we treat our animals better too. I admit it.
Sandi needs to read that article about the lady in Colorado who was feeding her “pet” bears. Except she became their meal….
We have 3 cats and 11 dogs (the black lab just had 10 puppies 3 weeks ago tomorrow). The cats are affectionate, but much more so when they want to be fed. The dogs are even more food oriented.
I don’t know how long they would continue to “love” us if they were not fed. How unconditional their feelings are is known only by them.
I am reminded of a line from the 90′s movie Congo. In that movie a guy has learned to communicate with an ape who guides him to a jungle treasure. They are attacked by other apes and the humans are fleeing for their lives. The guy wants to save his ape and Ernie Hudson grabs him by the arm and says “Human lives are more important than apes! Do you not agree?”
But to some, animals are more important than people. There is a reduction in the value of human life if I ever saw one. Only problem is that those same people who are saying with one side of the speaking orifice that part, they are opposing our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan because of the terrible loss of human life out of the other side.
Human life that they don’t feel is as valuable as animal life…..
Sandi, Your side exalts animals, but treats people like dirt. Is that not screwed up?
Suzie, Bob H:
Yea, everytime somebody speaks up for nonhuman animals, you come back with “You’re valuing animals more than humans.” Is THAT not screwed up?
Suzie…
Perhaps many of us treat our animals the way we do is because they give us unconditional love and wonderful times together…unlike some people who can be royal pains in the glutus maximus.
I treat my mini schnauzer very well…but he also knows who runs the show. It’s a shame more people don’t raise their kids the same way.
The plight of animals is somewhat different in that (like children) they often have no means of defending themselves from stupid adults.
Animals have no way of defending themselves Will?
Don’t tell that to the bear lady in Colorado…..
I’m a big animal friendly guy, and I do distinguish that there is a difference between human and non-human. However, even though there is a distinct difference, I cannot condone any mistreatment of either and openly support groups that fight abuse of both fellow humans and animals, including the NRV Women’s Center and the Humane Society. And, I also distinguish that there is are differences between an animal used for food, a wild animal, and a pet. I will never be separated from a good peice of chicken or beef, am supportive of people’s right to hunt (though I never will), and deplore an abuse of a pet for whatever reason. The people who tried to say what MV did wasn’t bad because of how prevalent hunting is were completely off base. Likewise, people who are calling for his head on a platter for what he did are also way off-base. Everyone could use a little reality check and apply some common sense. When the season starts, I’ll be sitting down, pulling for my hapless Lions like I always do.
Sometimes even the average bear is smarter than we humans. There are extreme examples everywhere.
Will, I can certainly relate to how you feel about your pets. Unfortunately, our three “mutt” cats run the show more than I’d like to admit.:)
OJ, what Vick did had nothing to do with hunting.
Will, animals can and do defend themselves all of the time. More than one “pet” has killed an infant over jealousy.
Sandi has either signed off for the day or doesn’t have anything more to add to what she has already posted.
Only 3 Suzie? Lightweight! We have 8, and if you think 3 run the show, try our house…yikes! We did have to put 3 outside permanently though, so it’s not as bad as it could be, but it’s clear most times that we are ‘allowed’ to use the furniture when the cats permit us to do so. We have fun sitting out on our back deck watching them stalk birds and squirrels like lions on the Serengeti going after a gazelle. They almost never get lucky with them, but they do get the mice well.
Bob H, I know that what Vick did had nothing to do with hunting, please give me a little credit for not being that dense. What I’m talking about is that a lot of his defenders tried to say what he did wasn’t so bad considering that hunting is a popular activity and people kill animals all the time. Obviously, the two are nowhere similar…yet a lot of people tried to say they were. I was pointing out that no, they aren’t.
Other John, Such fun!! Sometimes I wish we lived out farther, so we could have more animals and they could run more freely. No cars, etc.
BobH…
I just want to say “thank you”. You obviously think I was just born yesterday.
Good grief, man…there are extreme examples of all situations. Frankly though, I blame parents in the cases where infants have been victims of animals. To me it shows a lack of responsibility on the part of the parents and makes me wonder why parents like that even had kids to begin with.
My mini schnauzer sits on the diving board of our pool and watches the world go by. He’ll allow me and my partern to have about 3 inches on either side of a king size bed…what a bed hog he is!
Suzie, I know what you mean. When we lived in town, we had to keep very close eyes on our cats since they like being outside. There was too much traffic at most of the places we lived at before, and one of our cats got hit but thankfully was not injured severely. We now live in a rural community with a bit less traffic near our house that is usually at a lower speed, and we have about an acre total of land surrounding the house that they can roam, though only a quarter acre is ours (the rest is vacant or belongs to family). It definitely makes for a better place for them, and we’ve been able to help some of the animals our cats have caught to recover and then we release them once they heal. We’ve done that with probably a dozen mice, a snake, and several birds. We also tried to care for a turtle we found along the road…but it went back to the road rather than hang out in our pond, and it got squashed in front of the house. The big problem we have is our community seems to be a haven for pet dumpers from Radford, because a bunch of stray cats show up around the summer. Some are domesticated, but not fixed. And then we see numerous litters of kittens roaming around and about half wind up dead on the road. We do what we can, but it’s an impossibly large and expensive task to try and round them all up and get them fixed so they don’t keep having more litters.
The difference between children and dogs: I am my dog’s role model; she judges me not and admires me more with each passing day. This works with children only until they reach the age of 11 or so.
My dog took us to obedience school. We got the diploma…he got the treats.
I think we need remedial training sometimes…LOL
Other John, OMG. I would be taking all the kittens in, and my husband would have divorced me by now. Maybe it’s well enough I don’t live out.
Luanne, Pets don’t judge, all right. Everything you do is pretty much OK with them, unless of course you aren’t prompt with the food, then mine let me know.:)
“Sandi, Your side exalts animals, but treats people like dirt. Is that not screwed up?”
Sandi, any other time, you would be accused of being a bleeding heart.
By the way Suzie, if he will do it to dogs or chickens, he will do it to people. I can’t believe this discussion is even taking place.
That’s how we got 7 of our 8, Suzie. They were all kitens born either where our house is today or where my in-laws live. Only one wasn’t that way, and we got her from someone who couldn’t keep her…so in a sense all of our were either strays or unwanted pets that we took in. I’d love to take in all the other neighborhood stray kittens, and Lord knows I’ve tried to do it! Most of the time though, they’re so wild already all I can do is feed them and watch from a distance and hope they’re doing ok. There’s at least 4 full grown cats and about 6 kittens that live near our house, not including the batch of strays out neighbor behind us cares for. Pulaski County doesn’t do anything with cats, so we can’t call them in, and I wouldn’t want to do that anyway because they’d just be euthanized. For a while, I helped out a group in Blacksburg care for feral cat colonies in various parts of the Town, feeding and waterng them and trying to get them vet care if they needed it. If we had more land and some barns, I’d cladly take in some more strays for barn cats and let them have the rule of them just so they’d have some shelter and a guaranteed food source. But, since we don’t, we just help however we can.
“Sandi, Your side exalts animals, but treats people like dirt. Is that not screwed up?”
Like…not giving a damn if people can get to a doctor or not? “treating people like dirt” sort of that way?
Philly thinks Vick can sell tickets, for the freak show quality of him if nothing else. He’s not close to being as good as McNabb, and Philly ripped up McNabb’s 2 year contract last year and signed him to something longer if I recall.
Luanne, you are right about the “role model” nonsense. The aggregate rap sheets of the NFL, NBA, and MLB would probably reach to the moon if laid end to end. Kids ( and adults) just need to understand that those men are there for entertainment purposes, and (some of them) are not worth modeling yourself after. There are also really great stories of philathropy and community outreach in the NFL that get overshadowed by garbage like Vick’s behavior.
Will,
dudn’t mean to insult you. You saud animals can’t defend themselves and actually they can. That was my point and not to insult you.
The discussion has gotten a little far fromw whetehr MV should play in the NFL. He is getting his chance. I hope he succeeds and the PITA kooks stay at home.
“By the way Suzie, if he will do it to dogs or chickens, he will do it to people.”
OMG. The FBI needs to raid Tyson Chicken then. It’s just a matter of time before they start killing people. Do you people ever listen to yourselves?
I did not like Vick when he was at Tech. I don’t think he should have ever been allowed in College, he certainly was not a “student athlete” He is not the kind of person I would want my children to associate with. In saying that he has paid his debt to society and deserves another chance. His mistakes have cost him over 200 million dollars and 18 months in jail. I love dogs we have three Goldens, but you can kill someone and not receive what Vick did. I salute the Eagles for taking the chance and I hope they win the Super Bowl this year.
Thank you post #38.
My niece went to VT when MV did and reported exactly what you have here: That he was not exactly a prototype college student. And not of necessarily exemplary character either. If he was not a football player, he would not have been in college at all. And, some forget, he left VT after his sophomore season (some of the articles call him a VT alumnus, which is not true, he never has graduated from VT).
It was written: “To err is human, to forgive divine”. Well, he made a big mistake. He got busted for it. He lost 2 years of his freedom and will always be the face of “dogfighting”. Perhaps, because of my faith, the apostle Paul calls us to “immitate God (Jesus)”. My gosh, I have done alot of things in my life I need forgiveness for. Because I have received forgiveness from others, I can find it in my heart to forgive him.
And to hope that he is now a better person than he was. He has gotten a chance to prove that now.
OMG. The FBI needs to raid Tyson Chicken then. It’s just a matter of time before they start killing people. Do you people ever listen to yourselves?
Comment by Suzie — August 15, 2009 @ 9:55 am
Interesting that you compare industrial food production to animal torture. You’ve actually posted something that I can agree with.
Great point Kristen #40: Industrial food preparation is one of the biggest “undercover” operations in the PETA mission to inform. Sick people who enjoy torturing animals or just consider them less than dirt do indeed torture and inflict cruelty on animals already on their way to die.
Michal Vick did not make a mistake. Michael Vick made a choice. A criminal choice. Dog fighting is illegal for a reason. Just like drug use/selling, drinking and driving, and many other illegal activities. He made a choice to torture and kill helpless animals and to many people that is every bit as repulsive as if he had done that to a human. To some of us, God’s creatures are just that, “dominion” should not include torture. There is responsibility that goes with owning animals and keeping them safe is but one. Almost every serial killer, rapist, sadistic criminal in history mistreated, tortured and killed animals “in the beginning”. It is a sign of a serious mental defect IMO. Can it be overcome? I pray that it can.
I repeat, forgive him, cheer him on, pray for his redemption, or not, it is your choice.
“Interesting that you compare industrial food production to animal torture. You’ve actually posted something that I can agree with.’
You can’t make up an example too crazy for these people. My bad.
“OMG. The FBI needs to raid Tyson Chicken then.”
You haven’t got a clue as to why all those blue plastic barrels dot the hillsides do you? You’ll catch on someday.
Me, I don’t care if Vick gets his career back or not. I think he should get a chance, and the Eagles apparently agree for whatever reason, but I neither root for him to be successful or against it. I hate the Eagles, though, so I certainly hope they don’t have any success, but that would be true regardless of whether Vick is there or not.
What I hope Vick does get a chance to do is to change his life and show through his actions that he’s done so. He says he now realizes how wrong dog fighting is, and admits that he knew it was wrong when he did it and should have put a stop to it. He’s working with the SPCA to get a message out against dog fighting. Maybe he’s only doing it because he “has to”, but if the end result is fewer dogs die because of dog fighting, then it’s good.
And if Vick’s influence as a spokesperson against dog fighting is increased because of being a current NFL player over what his influence would have been as an ex player, that’s alright too.
Yes, character matters, and the NFL should reflect that. I think they do, and certainly in the past few years with the current commissioner it’s becoming more of an issue. Players are routinely suspended for actions that show poor character and reflect badly on the NFL, and Vick is still suspended. It’s not guaranteed that the suspension will be lifted, notwithstanding his being allowed to practice and participate in pre-season games. Likely, but not guaranteed.
Pro sports players are indeed role models, whether we or even they like it or not. But the focus on Vick shouldn’t be “he gets to make millions even though he committed horrendous crimes”; it should be “he committed horrendous crimes, has paid the penalty for those crimes*, and is now trying to move forward in his life as a better person.”
Rob, Sadly, for PETA and others, dog torture is the unforgivable sin, even if he’s done prison time, done promotional spots, and stood on his head apologizing. It’s just never good enough for these “compassionate” liberals. Murder, child abuse, and rape, partial birth abortion, no problem, but if you hurt an animal, that’s the worst crime you can ever commit, and you simply can never make it right.
Suzie,
“It’s just never good enough for these “compassionate” liberals.”
No, the “compassionate” comes before conservative. It is not necessary for liberals. See: Conservative Policies, history and results of.
Or you could respond to this – http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/roundtable/2009/08/14/tarbutton-health-care-doesnt-need-more-government-involvement/#comments
“Murder, child abuse, and rape, partial birth abortion, no problem, but if you hurt an animal, that’s the worst crime you can ever commit”
You are great at winning arguments against strawmen…
So Suzie, you think murderers, child abusers, and rapists can “make it right”? Interesting choice of words. Mayhap your hatred of all things “Liberal” is coloring your reasoning. I know that criminals do their time, do promotional spots, and maybe even stand on their heads apologizing and for many crimes that is more than enough to get a second chance and some form of redemption and that is the way our justice system operates. However, I maintain that murderers, child abusers, animal abusers and rapists can never “make it right” for me.
Suzie, we apparently agree that Vick should get a chance to redeem himself. I hope you don’t confuse that with my agreeing with disgusting statements like “murder, child abuse and rape,… no problem.” That you attempt to label liberals with this ridiculous stance is pathetic.
Steve, Sandi and Rob, I wonder if you were similarly outraged by Donte Stallworth’s DUI manslaughter conviction in 2005 and his return to the NFL the following season. I’ll bet a dollar you’ve never heard of Donte Stallworth. The leftwing media never saw killing a person as that big a deal, but sringing up a few dogs? Well, that’s the worst thing a person can do.
I am “similarly outraged” almost every night I watch the news or read the paper or surf the www. Send me my dollar. Too bad the RTEB did not give him a thread, I would have been there saying the same thing. He can have his judicial “redemption” but not my forgiveness same as any other criminal who hurts women, children, animals, old people, mentally or physically handicapped people. Sorry you need that spelled out for you to grasp it.
You insult a whole lot more than the “left wing media” with that “never saw killing a person as that big a deal” insult. MSNBC does so many crime and punishment shows, prison reality shows and real crime is ugly shows that we NEVER see on FAUX NEWS NETWORK.
Suzie, you owe me a dollar, and you might want to get your facts straight, besides. Stallworth’s DUI manslaughter conviction was this year (the Bentley he drove was a 2005, so that must be where you got confused). I don’t know where you get the idea that the left-wing media didn’t think it was a big deal, because I’ve read quite a lot about it. Most accounts I’ve read support his suspension for the 2009 year, and I agree with it.
When his suspension is over, and if he has shown remorse and a willingness to change, and is prepared to speak out against drinking and driving, I’ll be fine with him joining some team and resuming his career, same as I am with Vick. I don’t know why you think I’d think any differently. If he goes to play for the Eagles, I’ll still wish them a disastrous year, but I do that every year anyway.
Taking an innocent life is horrendous, of course, but the difference between Vick and Stallworth is that Stallworth didn’t set out that night to kill a pedestrian. He made some stupid decisions, but none of them involved gambling on whether or not the pedestrian would live if he got hit by a car. Stallworth didn’t stand in a circle, money in hand, cheering on one pedestrian to live and another one to die, nor did he knowingly bankroll such an operation.
Stallworth was punished for his crime, though lightly. A low-life, political opportunist might see this as an indication that human life is valued less than animal life, and blame PETA and other leftists, but that’s just absurd. We have to look at the circumstances and the intent involved. Maybe that’s a little too much nuance for some, though.
Anyone who cares enough about football to discuss Vick has certainly heard of Donte Stallworth. And, as Rob already pointed out, this was his first manslaughter conviction and it was plastered across the news at length.
What happened Suzie, did the chicken get your tongue? You still do not understand the plastic barrels do you? Or, is this maybe, just your way of denying that you are dead wrong? Huh! I really do not think you understand the barrels and I am not surprised since I do not think you understand this conversation either. Of course I could be way off base too. What I am talking about is not what interests most people.
This conversation is not about dogs, football, gambling, forgiveness or even Michael Vick. The only thing that matters here is how people treat other people. If you will torture a dog (or a chicken), you will torture a person. That is not a psychiatric opinion, that is what I have seen through the years. I really didn’t think this had anything to do with right and left politics, but maybe, just maybe, it does.
“Taking an innocent life is horrendous, of course, but the difference between Vick and Stallworth is that Stallworth didn’t set out that night to kill a pedestrian. He made some stupid decisions, but none of them involved gambling on whether or not the pedestrian would live if he got hit by a car.”
No, Rob. This is 1960s thinking. “Oh, he was drunk. He didn’t know what he was doing.” Uhh uh. We’ve moved way past that. You have made a conscious decision to drink then drive and you are responsible for what happens. Stallworth killed a man. You have some credibility because you allow for a second chance in the Vick case, but you lost a bit when you deny the left has offenses du jour which they fuss about far more than serious offenses. The Michael Jackson child molestation cases are examples of that.
Suzie,
“Steve, Sandi and Rob, I wonder if you were similarly outraged…”
Please point to any evidence that shows that I am “outraged” over Michael Vick.
The only comment I made on this topic was concerning your assertion of conservative moral superiority. Apparently you label your strawmen with my name now.
So I should expect your correction soon, right?
Suzie considering you didn’t have any facts correct on the Stallworthy case, your credibility in asserting your outrage is a little sketchy. Or maybe you WERE presciently outraged back in 2005. With RWers all things are possible.
In your continuing investigation into Stallworth, you’ll find he did take responsiblity for what happened – called the cops, stayed there until the cops arrive, cooperated fully with the investigation at all stages. So what’s your point exactly.
What Michael Jackson has to do with any of this…who knows. ‘Black male celebrities for $500, Alex’. To add a little variety why not trot out Roman Polanski.
“Suzie considering you didn’t have any facts correct on the Stallworthy case”
“Stallworthy”. LOL. Yeah, you’ve heard of him all right.
“The only thing that matters here is how people treat other people.”
It may come as news to you, Allen, but chicken and dogs are not people.
Suzie, are you actually reading what we write and simply misinterpreting it, or are you making it up as you go? I know I never once wrote of Stallworth “Oh, he was drunk. He didn’t know what he was doing.”, but since that makes it easier for you to make whatever point you’re trying to make, that’s what you’ll run with.
And if the day ever comes that I care about your assessment of my credibility, I’ll be sure to let you know. It ain’t today, though.
Rob, I’m summing up your mindset by with a quote that shows what you’re really saying. You did good on giving Vick a second chance. You blew it when you minimized Stallworth’s much-worse offense.
“Suzie considering you didn’t have any facts correct on the Stallworthy case”
“Stallworthy”. LOL. Yeah, you’ve heard of him all right.
Comment by Suzie — August 17, 2009 @ 5:18 pm
I asked you to make your point..I guess your point is a typo. You didn’t bother addressing anything of actual value, which is probably difficult to do when you’re desperately trying to take a non-existant position.
No, Suzie, you aren’t “summing up [my] mindset”, you’re just summing up your own straw-man argument. You’ll find no support in my posts here to support your claim that I minimized Stallworth’s offense, except in your own mind.
You still owe me a dollar, but I’ll accept an admission that you didn’t have any of the facts straight about Stallworth’s offense when you expressed your outrage about it. You’re so far off-base on just that issue that you’d be doing yourself a favor just to make that admission and then let it drop.