Editorial: A civics lesson for children
Failing kids on civics
Excusing schoolchildren from a presidential address for fear of his ideas is a poor lesson.
Virginia’s public schools shouldn’t have to make alternate arrangements for students whose parents fear they’ll be exposed to — a civics lesson. President Obama’s planned speech Tuesday to the nation’s schoolchildren is to be a message from the elected chief executive of their country encouraging them to study hard and succeed in school, an attempt to inspire. Nevertheless, the Virginia Department of Education issued an advisory this week to schools that choose to tune in: Be prepared with some alternative for students whose parents object.
Read more.
September 4, 2009 - 8:55 AM
Was there a situation where children were required to watch a Reagan, Bush 1 or Bush 2 speech?
I can just hear the howl of the other side if it was a requirement.
I have no problem if a school recommends watching the speech. But a requirement or assignment based on it goes a little too far.
And, BH0 should refrain, during this speech of his usual diatribe. That is, blaming Bush 2, saying we must act NOW (panic driven action), and stay away from his legislative agenda (in other words, politics).
I would also recommend, for once, not using a teleprompter. These are kids, and he shoudl speak to them from the heart and not the screen.
Darn those parents for sticking their nose in their children’s education. A parent has the authority of their children. If they don’t want their child listening in. So be it. Who are we to say they can’t do that. Whether its hysterical or concerned parents. Honestly it’s none of mine or yours business what the parent does. Period.
If there is a collective effort against this and parents will hold students from school, then yes, the DOE should provide an alternative for the students that still teaches a civic lesson. I don’t see the problem. Don’t get so defensive. If a parent holds a child off of playing tag or something of that nature they find something else for them to do. What’s the big deal?
Why is there such a big fuss about this? Every parent has the right and responsibility to teach their children what is important to them. If they are not comfortable with the kids watching the speech, then this is a great way to show that Obama isn’t trying to indoctronate…
Allow parents the choice… What is so wrong with that?
BTW – I will NOT be pulling my children from this…
i couldnt care less what rt thinks abut our reaction to obamas indoctrination, just doesnt bother me at all..i didnt vote for it and my childrn wont listen to his blather, they will learn civics from someone who knows we dont have 57 states…ya big dummy
Like i referenced in another thread… dont forget there are lots of parents out there that distinctly remember Obama saying that sex ed should start in Kindergarten…
The fact that several educational districts within the US, including VA, have chosen to opt out of Obama’s camera moment shows that many parts of this country are not on the same page as the President. That should be a red flag to left-wingers in that they are too liberal for the status quo. They should accept the fact that their politics occupy the fringe more than the center of America, and that they should back off either applying their policies in light of significant opposition or shift their politics more toward the right.
If politics are going to enter our educational system and the RT and the rest of the left are so concerned about children being exposed to varied views, then let a conservative political leader also address the children with alternative views following the President. But really, does either politician belong in our schools? The President could work through the tv networks to address children in their homes if their parents approve rather than wedge himself into our educational system resulting in a major disturbance.
Are Roanoke City schools giving the parents the option of opting out? I’ve only heard of Roanoke County schools doing it.
So parents who remember lies are justified in preventing their children from listening to the President of the United States?
This is lunacy.
The Virginia Department of Education kowtowing to Glen Beck? Now THERE’S a good reason to pull your kids from school.
Based on some parents, some of these kids would need a whole lot more help than a few moments of encouragement from Obama to get anywhere.
This “opting out” nonsense is inane. There’s no reasonable justification for it and any attempt to do so sounds EQUALLY inane. What if a parent happens to be a holocaust denier…should the school have to provide coloring books so their little darlings don’t have to be in the history class to hear about the holocaust?
On the other hand…I’m getting a look at where the kids that MY kids will have to compete with some day are coming from…and I’m feeling pretty good about it.
#8 Dan – Parents who are against the policies of ANYONE have the right to protect their children from them. Not lunacy at all.
So should parents have opted their kids out of Ronald Reagan or Bush Sr.’s speeches to schoolchildren – speeches, as have been established – that actually were ideological in nature?
Obama, regardless of his policies and what you think of him, is the President of the United States.
Whatever happened to respecting the office?
This protest is lunacy. Complete and utter lunacy.
Those liars at abcnews!!!!
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/07/sex-ed-for-kind.html
Would you have had your kids go to school to listen to Clinton during the Lewinsky affair?
Read the whole thing, Mark:
When Obama’s campaign was asked by ABC News to explain what kind of sex education Obama considers “age appropriate” for kindergarteners, the Obama campaign pointed to an Oct. 6, 2004 story from the Daily Herald in which Obama had “moved to clarify” in his Senate campaign that he “does not support teaching explicit sex education to children in kindergarten. . . The legislation in question was a state Senate measure last year that aimed to update Illinois’ sex education standards with ‘medically accurate’ information . . . ‘Nobody’s suggesting that kindergartners are going to be getting information about sex in the way that we think about it,’ Obama said. ‘If they ask a teacher ‘where do babies come from,’ that providing information that the fact is that it’s not a stork is probably not an unhealthy thing. Although again, that’s going to be determined on a case by case basis by local communities and local school boards.’”
I’ve got a 5-year-old. Five-year-olds ask questions about all sorts of things. Being prepared to answer those questions in an age-appropriate fashion – especially teaching kids that their private parts are private – is a very smart idea. But, as Obama said, that is not sex education in the way grown-ups think about it.
@6
Sorry Dan but some of us grew up in the 60′s and 70′s. Pardon us for not being excited about the President beaming his way into the government schools to force his view on kids. If Nixon had done this, we would have freaked.
That time would be better spent on education, not indoctrination. We don’t need some puppet reading from a teleprompter filled with the ramblings of his far-left czars. He needs to be cleaning his house of crackpots and racists, not playing Big Brother.
From January 2008
Van Jones: “The environmental justice community that said, ‘Hey, wait a minute, you know, you’re regulating, but you’re not regulating equally.’ And the white polluters and the white environmentalists are essentially steering poison into the people-of-color communities, because they don’t have a racial justice frame.”
1:40 on the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Zb0EVKOkY
#12 Dan – “So should parents have opted their kids out of Ronald Reagan or Bush Sr.’s speeches to schoolchildren – speeches, as have been established – that actually were ideological in nature?”
Sure…if that’s what the parents wanted to do.
@12
“So should parents have opted their kids out of Ronald Reagan or Bush Sr.’s speeches to schoolchildren – speeches, as have been established – that actually were ideological in nature?”
Should parents be locked out of the decision whether their child should be forced to watch the President in a classroom?
Dan, if you had read what i wrote yesterday, i agree, i know obama wasnt intending on teaching explicit sex ed to kindergartners… but look at the headlines of articles like that. Thats what a lot of parents remember because the media simply wrote exactly what obama spewed. Its not their fault they didnt call up obama and ask exactly what he meant or not their fault because they didnt read the entire article.
Im sure not everyone in favor of, or against, the ‘failout’ read all 700+ pages of it before making a decision.
Those of you advocating total parental control over their child’s education forget something. All taxpayers’ pay for your precious little-ones’ schooling, and therefore have some say in how it is carried out. Hence, for example, there are state standards and requirements for graduation.
If you want to control the whole thing, you have an alternative. Send your kids to private school or home school them.
I find it amusing that the Right spends so much time focusing on the adultery of Bill Clinton and completely ignores the adulterous behavior of their leading light, Ronnie Reagan, and Nancy “I guess I have trouble just saying no” Davis.
As for the sex ed question…It’s not inappropriate to teach children of ANY AGE about behaviors they might encounter, with strangers or people they know, that they need to tell a trusted grownup about immediately. It’s completely appropriate to teach small children about the “bathing suit” area and what that entails. This is all an aspect of “sex ed” and because a few parents have decided to pretend that children of a certain age a better kept in the dark is, again, not a reason for everyone else’s children to suffer.
Again, if you don’t want your kids learning anything, hoam skule them. Don’t send them off to public school and plan on screwing up everyone else’s children.
Personally i would rather opt to have my kids taken out of school during math class when they start trying to teach the stupid ‘lattice method’ to do multiplication, but what is the big fuss all about?
If i keep my kids out during the broadcast Tuesday, or for anything, i would gladly have them take an absence for the day… as long as a liberal, or not liberal, teacher didnt try to retaliate against me or my child in class because of it.
#12Whatever happened to respecting the office?
This protest is lunacy. Complete and utter lunacy.
Comment by Dan Radmacher — September 4, 2009 @ 10:24 am
no it isnt
give respect to earn respect
OK, I’ll agree children should be forced to hear about 0bama’s leftwing programs as long as they have to hear an hour-long presentation by a pro-life group. Would you liberals be fine with that? Your kids being forced to hear an anti-abortion presentation? After all, as the editorial says, children should hear “views other than their folks”
#21
I have met many home schooled children and not only are they more articulate, they are more intelligent and respectful than any in govt run screwels I have met
Kristen, if I prevent my grandson from watching the Dear Leader on Tuesday, how is that screwing up someone else’s kid?
Home schooling sure would save on school supplies… being asked to EACH send in 3 boxes of tissues, a bottle of hand sanitizer, 12 glue sticks, dry-erase markers (LOL)… for kindergarten and first graders ?!?!?
I guess us taxpayers really pay for out ‘little one’s’ schooling and about half of everyone elses too it sounds like.
“If you want to control the whole thing, you have an alternative. Send your kids to private school or home school them.”
That’s fine as long as the government pays for it. After all, I am paying them for education.
Suddenly, your little idea just dimmed in your mind. The idea of people having Choice doesn’t seem so enticing all of a sudden. That is expecially true of the freedom to choose whether their children are forced to listen to the President.
#10 –
Competition? LOL – I thought you guys hated competition. You know – “everyone gets a trophy”, “don’t mark the test with red ink as it makes them feel bad”, “lets not play tag ’cause Billy could get hurt” is the mantra of the left and you are talking about competition. You are off your talking points. Retract before Dear Leader see your “fishy” post.
CT #20 said “All taxpayers’ pay for your precious little-ones’ schooling, and therefore have some say in how it is carried out.”
You may have “some” say in my child’s schooling, but it is my responsibility to do so and I have ALL of the say in what my child is exposed to. That kind of statement scares the crap out of me…
Dan #12 – Sure… I have no problem if you don’t agree with the politics to pull them out.
Again, I will ask why is it such a big deal to allow parents the choice on this matter?
25 – Amen Pammala!
Has anyone stopped to consider what Obama would possibly hope to accomplish by trying to sell his policies to elementary school children? Do you really think they understand or care about economics and politics? And they can’t vote. He would be wasting his time. The idea that he will be forcing his political views on children is, like Dan said, lunacy.
I don’t agree with a lot of Obama’s views, but I’m not going to prevent my daughter from hearing him speak. That’s just silly.
Kristen, if I prevent my grandson from watching the Dear Leader on Tuesday, how is that screwing up someone else’s kid?
Stomping your little feet and having a meltdown every time something happens that you ideologically disagree with is distracting to every child AND adult who has to listen to this nonsense. As for the schools being forced to provide “Alternative Activities 4 Dummies” during Obama’s talk….it’s a waste of tax-payer paid time.
And I was also talking about the “don’t teach oral sex ed to kindergartners” nonsense, not just this Obama thing.
#29…Obama attended highly competitive schools and got himself elected President. I have a feeling he’s familiar with competition.
As for the rest of that “everyone wins” stuff…I’ve never advocated such nonsense, so don’t try to stick me with it.
#20 – Really, Christian? So because our taxes help pay for the GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS they should be able to dictate what is presented to our children – no matter what the parent says? U N B E L I E V A B L E!!!!!!!
Thats about as out of touch as anything I’ve heard in a while.
So let me try your logic here – since my tax dollars also pay for food stamps as well as public education- the Government should be able to tell those folks on food stamps that they can only eat chicken for the month of September. WOW!
I think maybe it’s you who forgot something.
VTHokie….well, after Obama gets himself declared Supreme Ruler for Life, he’ll have this children as his loyal slaves and subjects, so it’s in his best interests to get to them early. I’d think this was clear.
@33…what the heck are you talking about oral sex, Kristen?
Is this a case of getting all worked up in a big rant without knowing the facts?
Note:
I think Obama should be allowed to speak to the schools. It just really troubles me that parents have no choice in the matter. Kid aren’t even required to say the Pledge of Allegiance and God forbid a prayer be uttered. But the cult worship of Obama requires kids to listen to the President?
BTW a leaked copy of the President’s speech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8
Aren’t generalizations great? You never have to pay off on them. How about putting up or shutting up, pammala? Please excuse the less than polite expression, but I think it is entirely appropiate in this instance. Judging from your opinion and your post, I must also guess that you attended a government run screwel.
#32 – VT – He is still in campaign mode. Think about it anyone in high school is or will be a potential voter for him in 2012. If anyone thinks this is for anyones benefit other than 0bama’s – I would say you are wrong.
#33 oh calm down kristen it doesnt hurt anyone if we dont want our kids listening to his drivel..he is not an interesting person anyway and not very intelligent to begin with, 57states? yes he should talk about civics..lol
alternate activitied for dummies?
nasty comment
#34
“Obama attended highly competitive schools and got himself elected President. I have a feeling he’s familiar with competition”
He was elected fair and square. But I don’t know about his education. Lets see his academic records then! Oh yeah…you can’t!
“Stomping your little feet and having a meltdown every time something happens that you ideologically disagree with is distracting to every child AND adult who has to listen to this nonsense.”
Sounds amazingly like the way some people acted during the Bush years.
Kristen ,
could you elaborate on the statement about oral sex to kindergartners.
I dont know if you are for it or against it.
Thanks
As far as Va dept of education making other arriag.
I dont know if they should or should not.
Ultimatly it is up to the parents weather to keep thier kids homw.
What I am against is a self proclaimed little Hitlers, like the school
super in Tempe Ariz, that told parents kids will not opt out.
If someone told my child that, not only would I opt out , I would be at his doorstep the next morn. Not allowing him to opt out of
what was in store for him.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/03/parents-object-obamas-national-address-students/?test=latestnews
6th paragraph
Christian,
Where are our tax dollars going to pay for BH0′s kids to attend school?
Give me vouchers (credits) from my taxes that I pay for public schooling and watch my kids and every other private school start to fill up.
There are bigger things to worry about in our public schools than obama it looks like…
http://www2.wsls.com/sls/news/local/new_river_valley/article/radford_teacher_arrested_after_juvenile_drug_overdose/45042/
Kristen #33 said: “As for the schools being forced to provide “Alternative Activities 4 Dummies” during Obama’s talk….it’s a waste of tax-payer paid time.”
Wow…that is a pretty nasty thing to say about children. WOW!!
“Stomping your little feet and having a meltdown every time something happens that you ideologically disagree with is distracting to every child AND adult who has to listen to this nonsense.”
What about the parents who have NO interest in what their children do? I’d say those are worse than parents who want to be a part of the kid’s education!
Mark @19
Thank you for explaining that it is not our fault that we are willfully ignorant.
Dan @15
You are wasting your time explaining rational ways to raise children. Nothing is more important to them than their hatred of the man.
@12
This protest is lunacy. Complete and utter lunacy.
And you thought it couldn’t get any worse than Bush. We have the same few people on these boards spewing the talking points and shouting down discussion, just like the town halls, just like Florida in 2000. If the media would ignore them, they would be quickly become irrelevant, but that won’t sell the soap.
@Kristen #36 “Well, after Obama gets himself declared Supreme Ruler for Life, he’ll have this children as his loyal slaves and subjects, so it’s in his best interests to get to them early. I’d think this was clear.”
LOL.
When I was around the same age as my daughter (she’s 8), I remember Ronald Reagan occasionally addressing the nation from the TV. I don’t remember a single word he said, but I DO very clearly remember my grandmother fussing because he was interrupting her afternoon soaps. This attitude toward the President’s speeches had an effect on me…until I was well into adulthood I didn’t find anything having to do with politics or the President worth my time to pay attention to.
My point here is that, no matter what Obama blabs on about, there is a good chance your kids will be bored stiff, and they won’t remember it a week from now. But your attitude toward the President (not this particular President, but any President) speaking WILL stick with them, and make an impression, and maybe not the one you would want to make.
@Walker #40 “He is still in campaign mode. Think about it anyone in high school is or will be a potential voter for him in 2012. If anyone thinks this is for anyones benefit other than 0bama’s – I would say you are wrong.”
First, he’s not just speaking to high schoolers, he is speaking to school children of all ages. And I don’t think anyone was speaking of opting their 17 or 18 year olds out of listening to his speech…they can listen to Obama speaking on their own time if they are interested. What people are complaining about is their first and second graders being “indoctrinated”. Which is just dumb, for reasons I already stated.
As for 2012, whoever runs for the Repub ticket is going to be in campaign mode too, come 2010 and 2011. The kids who are old enough to participate in the 2012 election are going to be assaulted with campaign propaganda from both sides, what Obama says now is hardly going to make a difference.
@#48 allen,
What am i supposed to say? You are welcome??? I have no idea what you are talking about in #48, but hey, at least you didnt lie about something I didnt say again…
http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/roundtable/2009/09/01/bachmann-to-reform-opponents-slit-your-wrists/#comment-61289
What was with the oral sex comment again Kristen?? Who said that?
#51 – I understand that he is speaking to ALL school children. I posted yesterday some of the questions that he was going to ask – That now they are backing away from.
Among the activities the government initially suggested for prekindergarten to sixth-grade students: that they “write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president.” Another task recommended for students immediately after listening to the speech: to engage in a discussion about what “the president wants us to do.”
That’s a little much for my taste and i am glad they decided to withdraw those questions.
What if what the President “wants us to do” is stay in school and study hard? Is that such a terrible topic for discussion?
Good news. The President has people paying attention to the public school system. Bad news, many people don’t like what they see. It is up to parents to decide whether or not they think his speech is appropriate for thier children. Unfortunately his past with “educators” such as Bill Ayers rise a lot of doubts. If you have any doubt about Barak Obama’s influence on the education of your children, error on the side of caution and don’t allow them to watch until you can review the speech yourself.
Oh sorry Mark…maybe that’s not exactly what you said, but maybe I just misunderstood the message. My bad.
Good news. The President has people paying attention to the public school system. Bad news, many people don’t like what they see. It is up to parents to decide whether or not they think his speech is appropriate for thier children.
Oh yes..nothing could be less appropriate for “thier” children than to be encouraged to work and study hard in school. God only knows what sort if “influence” that might have.
Sometimes I wonder how we get so many stupid, uneducated adults in this country. Then I get a look at the people who are raising children, and am forced to admit that it’s inevitable.
Obama is not applying to be a teacher at any of our children’s schools, he’s making one speech which probably won’t be a long one since 5 and 6 year olds have a very short attention span. You as a parent have a lot more influence over what your child thinks than a one-time speech from the POTUS. And you refusing to let them hear a man speak about ANYTHING, because you happen to disagree with him or you didn’t vote for him is only going to say “If you don’t agree with what someone says, don’t listen to them”.
#55
Nope. Not at all. But wouldn’t that sound better and mean more coming from the parents?
@55
How about if the President tells us to say no to drugs? Or if he proposes an abstinence program? Wouldn’t it be cool if he opens with a prayer?
(liberal heads explode)
@#57…LOL at maybe…
@#61 double LOL at Henry… okay that is the second best post of the day!!
@61
Since I’m not a liberal, those things wouldn’t bother me at all. (The abstinence thing might go over the heads of younger children…but I realize you were not being literal).
You did not respond to the part about Bill Ayers. He has probably influenced Barak Obama concerning education than any other person. Did Barak Obama ever condone Bill Ayers’? Bill Ayers worked hard putting bombs together in his youth to blow up memorials to police officers, police headquartes, the Capitol, ect. Or maybe it was easy for Bill AYers to put together bombs and not worry about who might hurt or killed when they went off.
When it comes to education, professional and intelligence attributes, I have an MBA with Honors, I am a licensed CPA and a member of Mensa.
#60…Obama’s speaking does not preclude parents from reiterating the message if they haven’t already done so, in which case thank God he’s saying it.
#59…this is puerile sore-loser mentality, period. They’ve completely run out of pseudo-intellectual pretenses for their behavior and are reduced to verbally sticking their tongues out at the President of the United State, Barack Obama.
What the heck THEIR kids hear at home, I have no idea.
@#60 “But wouldn’t that sound better and mean more coming from the parents?”
Why? And even if you think that, is that a reason to not let your kids hear Obama say it? Because it will have less meaning?
@#65 How many school children even know who Bill Ayers is? Or what his association with Obama is, and do they know or care what it may or may not mean? I seriously doubt Obama will be praising him in his speech Tuesday.
You did not respond to the part about Bill Ayers. He has probably influenced Barak Obama concerning education than any other person.
No, because the first sentence isn’t relevant and the second sentence is nonsense with exactly zero supporting material. President Obama managed to get himself all the way through Harvard Law School without Ayers. I have no doubt President Obama is plenty familiar with the value of a decent eduction.
#66…they dont hear socialism in my house, dont know about yours kristen
I agree parents have every right to be involved with their child’s education, and decide if they want them to hear a particular person speak or not. I personally don’t see any reason to be concerned about kids watching a Presidential speech in school, but if someone else does they are free to act accordingly.
And I am free to think what I think about that.
Pammala, if working hard in school is considered socialism these days, we don’t have to think too hard to figure out who’s going to be running the show in a few years.
Most school children would not know Bill Ayers. Most school children are trusting of adults. However, not all adults are worthy of that trust. parent protects their children. At different stages of life, children will learn more the world: good and bad. I think that the parents are the decision makers of what is appropriate at what age. If parent thinks that their children are mature enough to understand a talk from Barak Obama and that his talk will be appropriate to for their children, they can let them listen. I get back to my original statement, if possible listen to the speech and decide prior to make a decision. If that is not possible, error on the side of caution.
What does Havard Law school have to do with the educaion of children?
Disrupting the school day at noon to have a pep rally of undetermined content and length of time just because it is the President is lunacy. Schools should have an educational basis for this and they don’t.
#74 – Kristen, who suggested that working hard in school is considered socialism?
Ooops…that should have been #72.
Socialism would be obama telling the children that, “hey, it doesnt really matter what career you choose or how long you go to school, we should all be making exactly the same $$.”
What does Havard Law school have to do with the educaion of children?
In most cases, eventually zero. Being a graduate of an ueber-prestigious graduate school does, though, speak to valuing good education in general.
Again, with your “Ayers influenced Obama more about education than anyone else” nonsense, it’s pretty clear that Obama had strong ideas about education long before he met Ayres. So, I’d say Ayres had zero impact on Obama’s view of education – of children or anyone else.
It’s disheartening that so many people just assume their children’s brains are so weak and soft that they’ll collapse under the weight of a presidential “pep talk”. Although, people know their own kids best.
#75…scroll back and read the thread yourself if you’re confused. I’m not cutting and pasting a bunch of stuff to simplify it for you.
@#74 “Disrupting the school day at noon to have a pep rally of undetermined content and length of time just because it is the President is lunacy. Schools should have an educational basis for this and they don’t.”
So schools have to have an educational basis for EVERYTHING they do? When I was in school we used to watch movies around the holidays, like Frosty the Snowman. What was the educational basis for that? Should parents have complained?
@#79 via #57 … pot… kettle… kettle… pot
@#80 “When I was in school we used to watch movies around the holidays, like Frosty the Snowman. What was the educational basis for that? Should parents have complained?”
Nahhhh…. say where does the US rank worldwide in education of elementary students again??
We are talking about altering the entire schedule of the school day and at the very least losing a period of instruction.
And yes, if you were watching Frosty the Snowman your parents should have complained.
@77 Mark…Obama just MIGHT say that. Heck he might get on camera, light up a doob, and start picking his nose in front of the little darlings.
Or…he just might sit in front of kids reading from an upside down book….
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushbookupsidedown.htm
So what was the “educational basis” for this lovely tableau?
I think we should have a day where we all reverse political preferences. I’ll start.
Not letting Obama into your children’s classrooms is just a selfish, childish, capitalistic-pig thing to do. He only wants to inspire kids to believe they can accomplish anything if they have access to other people’s money and effort. Like the ant striving to serve his colony, our children should put the President before their selfish wants. Studying hard and helping others through crafting redistribution legislation is what got Obama to the top, so it’s a model for our children as well. Teach our kids not to hate or resort to name calling like the nasty Repugnicans. Just remember, someone as intelligent as Obama can teach our children better than we parents can. Don’t let your kids not be exposed to someone smarter than you.
Sincerely, Alter-Jim
We are talking about altering the entire schedule of the school day and at the very least losing a period of instruction.
Really, Connie. So you think 10 minutes out of the jam-packed education fest that the first day of school ALWAYS is – just FULL of form completion, locker assignment, etc,etc…. not to mention lunch hour(known to not-infrequently occur around noon) would just hopelessly diminish the educational content of the day? Snowballing, of course, into greater illiteracy, dropping out, drug use…God only knows what.
Why don’t you just admit you hate President Barack Obama and would take any position – no matter how idiotic – in order to resist anything he attempts? It would be a lot easier, more intellectually honest, and believeable. No one’s buying the fauxtrage over the “lost” 10 minutes that Obama’s talk would encompass.
#79 Kristen – “#75…scroll back and read the thread yourself if you’re confused. I’m not cutting and pasting a bunch of stuff to simplify it for you.”
I’m not confused at all, Kristen. I saw a leap you made concerning pammala and asked a simple question. I didn’t ask you to cut and paste a single thing…simply to answer a question.
Can you answer the question without being insulting?
I make less than $50000/yr, i own my own home, I have a fairly large family (6), we do not yet own a flat screen tv much less anything HD at all. I feel very ashamed because of this and if i had more $$, i would just maybe be able to ‘have a little something’. I honestly feel that these big CEOs are the debbil and I should be entitled to some of their money… hold on a second… there is someone who makes $24,000/yr knocking at my door saying the same thing about me, let me scrape up some of my money ive saved for my kids education and give it to them, i will be right back….
Sincerely, Alter-Mark
whoa that just did NOT feel right at all…
#86 Yes really Kristen – I really think that we have enough going on in the schools without this going on the first day. I could care less who is doing it and I could care less if you believe me.
It will be more like 20 minutes of talk and when you consider the time needed before and after it will be more like 45 minutes.
They aren’t just going to freeze time and beam the broadcast into the kids heads. They are going to have to hold kids in classes. They are going to have to send some kids to other classes (doubt too many gyms have tv’s). It is going to cause the normal first day events you spoke of to spill over to the next day. Will the world end? No, but what is the point?
Do you have kids? They don’t have a lunch hour – they get more like 25 minutes. And they should be eating during that time not forced to go to a pep rally.
Besides allowing students to opt out, Roanoke County schools will not be participating in the “after speech activities” either. I think more so than the speech itself, the “after speech activities” was what probably got parents most riled up. I bet that more students will now not opt out, and will listen to the president, unless of course, they’re high schoolers whose lunch period falls at noon.
@#83 “We are talking about altering the entire schedule of the school day and at the very least losing a period of instruction.”
Field trips alter the entire schedule of the school day. In first grade my daughter’s class took an all day trip to Sinkland Farms, where the big event was getting to select your own pumpkin from the patch. I guess I should have been outraged.
Yeah just imagine what if parents took their children to pick out a pumpkin for Halloween instead of assuming the school may actually teach kids things…
@#92 that should have been “…instead of assuming the school is going to take kids to do these things…”
As a matter of fact, there were plenty of parents (myself included) who chose to go along on this field trip. And not one child was forbidden from going. This isn’t about whether the activity is a waste of time or not educational enough…the objection is because it’s Obama.
And mind you, I’m not a huge Obama fan. But I’m not going to knee-jerk reject something just because it’s his idea.
#91 and field trips have an educational value and are planned by the teacher and schools. Parents do not have to send their kids on field trips and they are not branded as lunatics if they choose to keep their kids home that day.
I don’t think that the assumption is that parent’s aren’t getting their kids pumpkins. There are greater crises in life than 2 pumpkins.
Believe it or not, some parents actually participate in the education of their children, as well. There’s plenty of crossover between the missions of schools and parents regarding children.
#94 This isn’t about whether the activity is a waste of time or not educational enough…the objection is because it’s Obama.
Maybe for you but not for me – it is about exactly what I said it was about.
Actually, the Muslim and Jehovah’s Witness kids did not attend the Sinkland Farms event at our school. They were not forced to participate.
VT Hokie, could a parent have prevented their kid from going.. supposing they are anti-pumpkin or anti-halloween or whatever?? Should the school penalize the child then if he/she didnt go??
Yes, because the first African-American elected president of this country couldn’t possibly have anything of educational value to offer.
@#96
No, parents do not have to send their kids on field trips.
At no time while I was in school, nor anytime since my daughter has been in school, has a parent refused to let a child go on a field trip due to lack of educational value, and insisted that the school find something else for them to do. And I would say the field trip to the pumpkin patch, which took the entire day, did not hold a lot of educational value, it’s just a first grade tradition at South Salem.
A speech from the POTUS must be at least as worthwhile educationally as picking pumpkins. Whether this is time well spent is NOT the root of the objection…it is because it is Obama. And Connie, you yourself are branding school administrators as lunatics just for showing the speech, at least that is what I gathered from you saying that it was “lunacy” (post #74).
Anti-pumpkin!! That’s awesome.
I would have kept my kid from going to sinkland just on principle. They import the vast majority of pumpkins they sell. No different than going to Wally World. Unfortunately, my wife took our daughter several times when she was very young. Thank God I have a garden, and my daughter actually understands how growing things actually works.
The great farming field trip. You can “pick” your own pumpkin after we take it off the truck and put it in the field for you. Awsome educational opportunity. Agritainment is just another thing to make increasingly dumber Americans.
#101: Uh-oh, Kristen’s playing the race card. Anyone concerned about politicians in the classroom is a racist! Tell us specifically Kristen, what can he teach our children?
@#99 “Actually, the Muslim and Jehovah’s Witness kids did not attend the Sinkland Farms event at our school. They were not forced to participate.”
@#100 “VT Hokie, could a parent have prevented their kid from going.. supposing they are anti-pumpkin or anti-halloween or whatever?? Should the school penalize the child then if he/she didnt go??”
I’m not saying that anyone should be forced to participate, and as far as I know no one suggested that children would be penalized for not watching the President’s speech (or not going on a field trip). I never suggested that the field trip I referenced was anything but voluntary. I was merely using it as an example of an activity that was not particularly educational in nature but that no one objected to, at least not for it’s lack of educational value (objecting for religious reasons is entirely different). Yet the lack of an “educational basis” for showing the President’s speech, which will take up less than an hour of the entire day, is now being given as a reason to keep children home or ask the school to find an alternate activity (which, by the way, would probably be playing in the gym or something like that, not necessarily something that a parent would deem more educational). No, the people who posted much earlier in the thread objected to Obama feeding his socialist ideas to our impressionable youth. That is the real objection.
Marion Berry was an elected official in DC too wasnt he?
it has to do with his ideology not race, i cannot believe people still think that way..it is sad to think that is what they are putting up for an argument
There are a couple of kids each year that opt out of the “Winter” parties at the school. Are they lunatics?
Kristen #101 – Leave it to the liberals here to inject race into the issue…
#102 And Connie, you yourself are branding school administrators as lunatics just for showing the speech, at least that is what I gathered from you saying that it was “lunacy” (post #74).
actually it was Dan Radmacher in post #12 threw out the term and aimed it at anyone who raised an objection
@#104
Kristen didn’t say they were racist, that’s putting words in her mouth (or keyboard). She was making a case for his speech having educational value by pointing out a fact…he’s the first black president in our nation’s history. That’s all. She didn’t call anyone a racist, implicitly or otherwise.
Note: My children will see the President’s speech and I encourage that. I just don’t think the newspaper should be condemning people who don’t want to participate. Freedom is more important than obedience.
Sorry I got off the subject of pumpkins.
@108 danny, why is it the libs always bring up race, methinks they are the racists here..I think that they think that being black is a bad thing and therefore automatically think that other people think the same way, therefore projecting their own racists beliefs on others….
People who get worked up at someone happening to mention, in any context, that Obama is African-American are the ones playing the race card.
#111 I just don’t think the newspaper should be condemning people who don’t want to participate. Freedom is more important than obedience.
Well said!
@#111 “Note: My children will see the President’s speech and I encourage that. I just don’t think the newspaper should be condemning people who don’t want to participate. Freedom is more important than obedience.”
Good point. And I agree. Anyone who doesn’t want their child to participate in this or any other school activity should not be forced, they should be able to opt out. All of my arguments have not been against them opting out…I just feel that their reasoning is flawed and I was attempting to explain why. But they are free to disagree with me, and take care of their children as they see fit. And that is as it should be.
@#108 “There are a couple of kids each year that opt out of the “Winter” parties at the school. Are they lunatics?”
Sigh…I’m kinda starting to regret bringing up the field trip thing, because it apparently didn’t get my point across well.
No Danny, they are not lunatics. And I’m sure they are opting out for religious reasons, not because a Winter party is lacking in educational value. That is my point. The lack of educational value is NOT a real reason to opt out of Obama’s speech, given that these same parents will, I’m sure, not opt their kids out of holiday parties for that same reason. If they don’t want their kids to hear Obama’s speech, fine, but I’m just saying, that particular reason doesn’t make sense when it isn’t applied consistently to other activities.
@110 it was strongly implied
sorry#13
# oh I thought he was biracial, but now it african-american..if he wasnt born in africa, he is american
Comment by pammala — September 4, 2009 @ 4:03 pm
cannot type #113 my post
I just found out Obama’s speech actually will be disrupting my daughter’s education. Her algebra class was supposed to review Tuesday during that time period for a test on Wednesday. The teacher left it up to the students to see if they wanted to watch the speech or have a review, as they normally do before a test. Some students wanted to study with the teacher, and others wanted to watch the speech. Her class will be watching the speech. I will leave the decision up to my daughter if she wants to watch the speech, or go into the library to study for the test. Unfortunately even if she choses to study she now does not have the “luxury” of having her algebra teacher explain things to her if she gets stuck. So, yes, Obama is disrupting some student’s education. Perhaps a smarter way to handle this whole “presidential pep talk” would have been to just have the schools tape his “message” and then play it during the students’ history/government period instead of having everyone just stop what they’re doing at high noon.
@#117
No, she didn’t imply it. Unless all the media spokespeople, who repeated over and over what a great historical moment Obama’s inauguration was because he’s the first black president, were also implying that someone is racist.
I find it plain sad that in this country we apparently now consider “freedom of speech” a one-size-fits-all excuse for shouting down and shutting down the opposition. We cannot hold a civil discussion about our health care mess. And now some people are so contrary that the president cannot even say “study hard, kids,” to the school children of America without an uproar being generated. Things do not look good for this country if this sort of insanity continues.
Roanoke RnR, if the teacher outright refuses to answer any questions your daughter might have before she has to take a test, that would certainly be cause to be upset.
VT Hokie #16 – I wasn’t trying to pile on you with my Winter party question. I thought it fit better than your field trip analogy. People don’t agree with the premise (or whatever) behind the party and opt out, even if the whole party has been sanitized to not inlcude ANYTHING about the holidays, to the point where my wife bought tree shaped pretzels for a party one year, and we coudn’t bring them. If that is OK for them to pull their kids, why not let parents pull theirs for a political thing?
I’m not going to pull my kids, I think it will be a good opportunity for them to learn something, then learn about why I think the way I do. But, if a parent wants to…for whatever reason, why can’t they just do so with all of the bashing here?
Pammela, I think you’ve infected me with the no-typing!! Should have been post #116… I’m such a dork…
“Perhaps a smarter way to handle this whole “presidential pep talk” would have been to just have the schools tape his “message” and then play it during the students’ history/government period instead of having everyone just stop what they’re doing at high noon.”
Very true. Perhaps some teachers will choose to do that. It would make sense, that way they can work it in around their lesson plans, instead of working their lesson plans around the speech.
#116 That is my point. The lack of educational value is NOT a real reason to opt out of Obama’s speech, given that these same parents will, I’m sure, not opt their kids out of holiday parties for that same reason.
It IS a real reason to object to the schools blindly altering the planned school day a noon EST for every single child in every single school just because the president asked them to do so. There might be a time and a place to air the speech after the fact. That should be determined by the schools, by grade level, and after they know the content and length of time of the speech. I am not implying there will or will not be any inappropriate said in the speech, but what is the big deal about showing it live at noon to every single child in America? And does it really take 20 minutes to say work hard and value education? Couldn’t a 2 minute clip in homeroom handle that and be managed easier in the schools? Doesn’t the amount of disruption to every child mean that we hold it to a higher standard? Otherwise, let’s just have a pep rally every Monday at noon to check in with the President.
Leave it to a liberal to make this a racist issue.
@121 i suppose it depends on the perception of the one to whom it was said.
in any case, off topic sort of but not really seeing as how some are so infatuated with barack, cass sunstein wants not gurantee any coverage insurance for severely disabled peoples and wants to limit insurance for 70 yr olds as opposed to 20 yr olds..real fair policy your buddy barack has. i wouldn’t trust him with a plug nickel let alone allow his crap to be broadcast my kids while they could be learning something useful.
Much ado about nothing.
@#125 “cass sunstein wants not gurantee any coverage insurance for severely disabled peoples and wants to limit insurance for 70 yr olds as opposed to 20 yr olds..real fair policy your buddy barack has.”
Source?
Barack’s not my buddy…as I mentioned earlier I’m not really a fan, and I’m not in favor of HR 3200.
However you perceive Kristen’s comment, that doesn’t change what she meant by it.
@#124 “Leave it to a liberal to make this a racist issue.”
For the love of Pete, no one is making it a racist issue except the people that are now claiming that Kristen made it a racist issue. Obama is our first black president. That might be of some academic interest to the kids. What it God’s name is racist about saying that?
Sorry, I meant #128, not #124.
@#127
Okay, there’s reason to question the need to shut everyone down at noon for this speech…they could, as Roanoke RnR suggested, record it and show it at a time convenient to teachers and students.
But does this translate into a reason to opt your child out of it? Or keep them home for the day? Their academic schedule has been interrupted whether they are watching the speech or not. They aren’t going to get more educational value out of playing basketball in the gym, sitting in another classroom doing busy work or coloring pictures, or staying home.
It’s one thing to feel that an activity is interrupting an instructional period, quite another to forbid your child to participate based on that assessment.
#131 VT Hokie – “Obama is our first black president.”
Wait a second…the media kept saying he wasn’t black when he was running. Now he’s black? How’d THAT happen?
And I thought Clinton was our first black President?
Y’all need to make up your mind.
@#130 “Much ado about nothing.”
Blue John, I couldn’t agree more.
131
@#125 “cass sunstein wants not gurantee any coverage insurance for severely disabled peoples and wants to limit insurance for 70 yr olds as opposed to 20 yr olds..real fair policy your buddy barack has.”
Source?
omg look it up, I did.. I just happened across a lot of info on him..google cass sunstein
Amazing these people who are so big on “choice” suddenly don’t want choice allowed when it comes to opting out of an indoctrination session by the Supreme Leader. The only thing missing is the giant mural.
“Stomping your little feet and having a meltdown every time something happens that you ideologically disagree with is distracting to every child AND adult who has to listen to this nonsense.” Kisten@#33
I agree. I remember feeling the exact same emotions when I heard about the parent who sued on behalf of his daughter because the pledge of allegiance had the two words “under God” in it.
The really interesting thing here is the left’s reaction to the possibilty that some people might not listen to their message. no one is tying to stop the speech. No one is trying to quell the message. But for the thought that some might be able to opt out to create such outrage? Tell me again, which party is that is always trying to shove its ideology down everyone’s throat?
Dan—you are the one that represents “lunacy” here— unfortunately, I learned too late the tragedies of so called “public schools”; my 2 sons were indoctrinated by the left wing lunatics in their 13 years of public school education—they now admit, a lot of what they learned was self taught…
I would take my kids OUT the day Obama speaks, I would NOT have them subjected to his twisted and radical approach to education, or anything else he has to say.
As for President Bush and Reagan, they were an excellent example of the traits of a moral and reasonable individual holding the highest office in our land.
These kids are already going to have pay dearly for Obama’s actions, let’s spare them from listening to his left winged indoctrination.
Mountain Star, as I’ve already pointed out, Ronald Reagan was a dirt bag with a mediocre education, who screwed around on his wives serially. As for W speaking on education…that’s yet another joke that writes itself.
they now admit, a lot of what they learned was self taught…
What this means, I have no idea. But we’re paying currently for the criminal ineptitude of Bush and Dick. I assume this doesn’t bother you.
@139 I agree. I remember feeling the exact same emotions when I heard about the parent who sued on behalf of his daughter because the pledge of allegiance had the two words “under God” in it.
I don’t disagree with this CRamsey. My feeling on that sort of thing is the same as on school prayer. It’s nothing to do with the kids involved, and everything to do with adults wanting a forum to be “heard”.
And that’s what this is. Nothing to do with the children, everything about some small embittered people grabbing their “moment” to throw the bird at President Obama. Connie et al, spare me the rationalizations, I didn’t buy them the first time I read them and I won’t now.
As for Obama’s little ‘pep talk’…it’s unsupportable in a public school for parents to start micromanaging every moment of their children’s days and weighing in on the value of every minute the kid spends in school. It’s like sex ed in health and parents “having input”. The school isn’t there to execute 587 IEPs for 587 different kids and parents – it’s not feasible or efficient. Not to mention, it’s stupid. I’m not bothering to seriously entertain the idea that all this nonsense is rooted in anything but a bunch of not-so-bright people whose panties are in a wad because Barack Obama got elected last fall. That’s all it is.
Again, based on what some of these parents are spewing, it would take a lot more than a few minutes of Obama to accomplish much with these children. But, I was raised by pretty RW parents and managed to rescue myself….I have to hope some of these kids can do the same for themselves when they grow up.
Everyone should have a choice about what they expose their children to and they shouldn’t be labeled lunatics if they object. Mine will not be opting out of the speech, but I have expressed my displeasure to their school district. I believe they should have weighed how much this would disrupt the day and decided not to show it live. They should have anticipated that it was also controversial and erred on the side of waiting to see the speech before airing it. It bothers me that their justification for showing it live Tuesday was simply that the President asked them to so. Their job is to think about the kids and their needs, not what the President wants. I think my kids should be in class, not a pep rally. At some point if their teachers integrated it into their lessons, fine. Had their school used the materials originally put out by the Department of Education I probably would have had them opt out. Given the tone of that material, I can see why many parents were upset. The DOE changed that material – for a reason. The President has likely changed the speech he originally planned to present as well. If Obama was making a speech about staying in school and working hard because it is what God wanted, I can just imagine the uproar from the left. Change God to President and it is fine.
People who do not want to expose their children to a speech by the President of the United States – whoever he is – deserve whatever label they get.
People who think they control what their children are “exposed to” are living in Candyland. That being said, if maintaining that illusion is particularly important to parents, they need to hoam skule their children so as not to run the risk of tainting them with unvetted outside influences.
For normal people, having the President take time out of his busy schedule to encourage and build up our students isn’t “controversial”. It’s admirable. Face it…President Obama’s time is worth exponentially more than anyone else’s in the equation. If he has the time…anyone else does.
2141bunch of not-so-bright people whose panties are in a wad because Barack Obama got elected last fall. That’s all it is.
Real nice
my panties are not in a wad because he got elected..i am upset because he is a socialist liar with communists buddies all around him and has a ridiculous cabinet as well…YOU however are mad because we didnt fall in love and believe a liar like you did and now cannot admit you have buyer’s remorse…
@143 ooooooooo really scared of labels danny…oh no i might be called a racist or bigot…lol really does bother me you can tell
again….you want your children to listen to a man that thinks we have 57 states…….THAT is funny and sad at the same time….
Pammala, only my mother calls me Danny. You’re not her. (I’ll resist the urge to quote Die Hard here.)
@143 “People who do not want to expose their children to a speech by the President of the United States – whoever he is – deserve whatever label they get.”
Dan, (it is going to be very hard not to type Danny from now on) can you honestly say you would have expressed the same sentiment 18 months ago?
Obama is our first black president. That might be of some academic interest to the kids. What it God’s name is racist about saying that?
Comment by VT Hokie — September 4, 2009 @ 5:19 pm
Yes exactly VTHokie. I’d say (hopefully will say one day) the same about our first female president. The first of ANYTHING is interesting and historic, especially something as momentous as a presidential election in this country.
Some people complain a little too loudly about the “race card”.
@Another Chris #143: “Dan, (it is going to be very hard not to type Danny from now on) can you honestly say you would have expressed the same sentiment 18 months ago?”
Yes, Chris, I can. No one got upset when Reagan or the first Bush did pretty much exactly the same thing, even though their speeches were ideological, and Obama’s apparently is nothing more than urging to students to work hard and get their education.
By the way, scary as it is to think about, I was writing editorials back in 1991 when Bush gave his speech. I didn’t write a single word in protest.
Pammala—boy do I ever agree with you!
Kristen, You think that it is totally appropriate for Obama to take time out of his busy day, and address the “student choir”—well I think Obama, has created a real mess, and he had better use his time more wisely—because it does appear he will face major opposition to his socialistic approach to Government—
I am glad I didn’t believe his lies and that “halo” he has been wearing, well it is getting mighty dim these days—-looking forward to REAL change, in 3 1/2 years!!
RWers talk a whole lot about children “learning patriotism” in schools, learning to love and respect the country, reading about what the US stands for (or is supposed to stand for), our backround and history…etc…
Then, when the President of the United States, Commander in Chief of the US armed forces and leader of the free world chooses to address said children…the Wingnuts are the first to spit and froth about it. Wonder what lesson they think THEY’RE giving.
I’d call “lunacy” diplomatic.
#149 yes Kristen, there are valuable lessons to be learned from Obama’s life and historic presidency. The schools covered that at the time of the inauguration quite heavily and teachers will continue to integrate it into their lessons in years to come. It doesn’t mean that schools should rearrange their days just because HE is making a speech.
Dan – This controversy didn’t start because a president wanted to speak to schoolchildren about getting a education. Perhaps you did not raise an objection when prior presidents spoke, but plenty of democrats did at the time, there weren’t official Obama lesson plans to go with those speeches, a cash prize for making a video about what the president said, and there wasn’t the request to have every school child in America disrupt their day and tune in at noon. When the DOE suggested children read books on Obama, write letters on how Obama inspires them, how they can help Obama, etc., rather than actually focusing on the role of education in their lives THEY clearly gave the impression that they intended the event to be more than a “have a great school year” speech. That’s what started the uproar for many folks. The DOE has since toned down material because it was inappropriate. They have now said they will make the speech available ahead of time and it is likely toned down. While I respect the man’s accomplishments and there are plenty of things kids could learn from him, in this country we don’t blindly worship our leaders and have our children glorify them personally – whether they be on the left or the right. They should have respect for the office and the man, but starting off the school year by being asked to study and write about the man is questionable. It is a sad day when people are not free to speak out or question whether or not the children are being exploited or manipulated or having their school day wasted. My concern is with blindly showing this speech live and disrupting the day solely because it is the president. Sorry, that isn’t a good enough reason for me and it has nothing to do with it being Obama. We filter things in schools and make sure they are educational and appropriate. He could have forgotten the DOE nonsense, made a shorter speech and allowed teachers to show it on their timetable or just aired it at say 7pm for kids to watch with their parents and very few people would have had anything to say.
#144 Face it…President Obama’s time is worth exponentially more than anyone else’s in the equation. If he has the time…anyone else does.
Actually, I value the time of the teachers in overcrowded classrooms trying their best to make a difference in those children’s lives. The teachers are underpaid, overworked, and probably have kids of their own at home that they don’t get to see as much as they’d like because there are lessons to plan and papers to grade and they are doing there best to try to be the best teachers possible. They don’t need to come to work and find out their day is rearranged due to a pep rally and then have to find a way to make up that time to keep the week on schedule and also work in lessons plans about how to help the president.
But did you write in favor of those President’s speeches when the left did protest?
As far as I can recall, Chris, the left did not protest. Things hadn’t gotten so ludicrous back then.
#150
“Obama’s apparently is nothing more than urging to students to work hard and get their education.
It will take 0bama an hour to say do your best and get an education? Also, what makes you think that’s all he won’t go ideological. Have his handlers released the text? Or do you just believe everything 0bama says?
I notice 0bama switched the time from 10 a.m. to 12 noon. Seeing how Democrats have Limbaugh on the brain, I have no doubt they’re changing it to compete with Rush’s first hour, and to prevent him from getting a bullseye on it.
well I think Obama, has created a real mess, and he had better use his time more wisely–
He inherited a mess. We all know that.
But did you write in favor of those President’s speeches when the left did protest?
Comment by Another Chris — September 5, 2009 @ 1:39 pm
The left doesn’t tend to wet its drawers whenever the duly elected President of the United States opens his mouth on television.It’s usually considered part of the deal.
,em>Seeing how Democrats have Limbaugh on the brain, I have no doubt they’re changing it to compete with Rush’s first hour, and to prevent him from getting a bullseye on it.
There’s no html that can express how hard I’m snickering at this post.
Thank God my children have never been exposed to Rush’s drivel. What was he elected to again? Oh right…jack squat.
#161 The left doesn’t tend to wet its drawers whenever the duly elected President of the United States opens his mouth on television.It’s usually considered part of the deal.
That’s the most laughable thing I’ve heard in quite some time. The left did (and still does) nothing but mock and ridicule Bush and you now want to act like you have respect for the president whoever he may be and the office no matter who holds it. That’s not gonna fly….you can’t have it both ways.
Kristen
I can clearly see you will “fit” well, into Obama style socialism–
Have fun with that…We are headed into deep and troubling times, thanks to Congress and the Obama cronies….this is no longer Bush’s mess, it totally belongs to Mr. Obama—-and the ones like you, Kristen that voted him in to office.
@ #142: “Their job is to think about the kids and their needs, not what the President wants.”
Connie, I admire your desire to be an integral part of your child’s education, but I think you miss the point. Perhaps schools are doing exactly what you suggest – thinking about the needs of our children. Showing the President’s speech in real time says to our children, “I value you and your education.” How exciting it must be for many of our children to see our President devoting an entire speech to them and to what they’re trying to accomplish. I do imagine that he will inspire more than a few of our children to be the best they can be – if only for a moment. “Education is not the filling of a bucket, but the lighting of a fire.” Among those of you who will opt your children out of the President’s speech, how may have asked the opinion of your child?
so if obama isnt capitalist, and we ALL know he isn’t, what is he…it has to be either of the following: socialist, marxist, facist, communist, anarchist…so what is he?
Blocking any USA President’s attempt to speak directly to the children is a smear against our leader.
Children are REQUIRED to watch graphic films about sex diseases, in physical education classes. They say that it is very gross. I seems to upset them, more than educate them.
America should respect any President. What is going on is showing disrespect.
The world is watching. It’s a very serious situation. Lack of unity makes the country weaker.
I think the reactions of some borders on racism.
If Obama weren’t capitalist (we ALL know he is), he would have nationalized the banks instead of bailing them out. We would be talking a single-payer system instead of continuing the current health care system with a series of far-too-minor alterations. And Larry Summers wouldn’t be one of his chief advisers.
#167 – Know Nothing, “America should respect any President. What is going on is showing disrespect.”
You’re right, America should respect any President. However, that respect has to be earned.
Obama hasn’t earned it. On the contrary, his actions since taking office have accomplished the exact opposite.
Dan,
You should know by now that trying to have an intelligent discussion with the people that think Bush was a good president is an exercise in futility. They think Obama is the cause of the bad economy and have selective memory of the state of the nation before January. Either that, or they are ticked off because they didn’t get a Walmart check from Obama. I can’t wait until McDonnell is elected and the women posters on the right find themselves barefoot, pregnant, and walking behind the man.
Progress? I think not.
Kristen #162
“Thank God my children have never been exposed to Rush’s drivel.”
Oh cool. So you don’t let your children hear a different point of view while you lecture those who don’t want school time wasted on 0bama’s socialist prattle. It’s pretty hard to think of an issue in which libs aren’t hypocritical, and y’all didn’t disappoint on this one. Maybe if leftwing public-school parents had a more open mind, their children might someday approach home-schoolers’ scores on standardized testing, SATs, and ACTs.
“What was he elected to again? Oh right…jack squat”
And yet…0bama can’t give a speech without whining how Rush is turning people against his socialist health care plan. It’s pretty awesome that a non-elected official wields more influence than a sitting president, isn’t it? lol.
Dan #168
“If Obama weren’t capitalist (we ALL know he is)
We don’t know any such thing. I can’t think of anything he has done to encourage the private sector.
“he would have nationalized the banks instead of bailing them out. We would be talking a single-payer system instead of continuing the current health care system with a series of far-too-minor alterations. And Larry Summers wouldn’t be one of his chief advisers.”
0bama has nationalized GM, his bank bailouts came with strings attached to give govenrment more control, and he has openly spoken of his desire for a single-payers system. That is the goal. It’s all about incrementalism. The only reason he denies it is he knows it will further doom his plan. That’s why it’s critical not to let him get any traction, whatsoever. Again, show me some, ANY, evidence in his history that shows 0bama is a capitalist. There’s overwhelming evidence that he’s a radical socialist.
@168If Obama weren’t capitalist (we ALL know he is), he would have nationalized the banks instead of bailing them out. We would be talking a single-payer system instead of continuing the current health care system with a series of far-too-minor alterations. And Larry Summers wouldn’t be one of his chief advisers.
Comment by Dan Radmacher — September 5, 2009 @ 9:22 pm
guh-huh single payer system is exactly what he wants….what do you think he is trying to do, just becasue he has larry summers doesnt mean a thing as he is doing things the obama way these days…oh byw, at least we dont have to deal with van jones anymore yeaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@170 i didnt think bush was a good president and i still dont like obama….never will…and oh your post is so condescending to us that dont like him…”trying to have an intelligent discussion…..” yeah right if its about obama, well..never mind….lol
I’ve largely tried ot steer clear of this debate, but here are some interesting, non-scientific polling numbers.
http://cfc.wjla.com/processpoll.cfm?i=2903&s=wjla&answer=2
Though I’m not quite sure why there total adds up to more than 100% (but then again it is an ABC affiliate), but this seems to indicate that it is more than the right “wetting their pants” over the President’s proposed address. This sort of gives lie to the whole argument of how only a “vocal fringe” has reservations about Obama’s policies.
C,
You don’t really expect anyone to give any credibility whatsoever to a poll with absolutely no scientific validity that could have easily been freeped or otherwise manipulated, do you?
Such polls are for entertainment only; they have no descriptive value whatsoever – and I’d say the same thing if it showed an overwhelming majority in favor of Obama’s speech.
RE: Post #174,
While you are lol’ing, I take it you see yourself in that post.
I think we have started something with alot of parents in Bedford county.
We have contacted the school principle and let them know that we will be in the classroom or auditorium when our kids watch, to rebutte and tell our kids the truth.
I think that is fair.
All parents that believe in this should contact thier kids school and let them know the same thing.
I think you are going to have alot of antsy teachers and staff out there when we show up.
Not a bad idea, Herb. There aren’t many differing views allowed in the public schools. My brother was telling me about this liberal network being shown in the middle- and high schools called Channel One, which, it’s website says, serves 6 million students in 8000 schools. Roanoke County schools subscribe.
I decided to pick on issue and see how Channel One treated it. I picked global warming. Not only did that network treat GW as if it were settled science, it has assumed an activist role. Here was a segment on the network
“Environment 101: Find out how you can join the powerful global statement on climate change”
http://www.channelone.com/news/cleanup/
Yet on the home page, Channel One claims to be unbiased. Meanwhile 0bama ads are streaming across the top just like on the RT blog. Makes you wonder what chance public school kids have of ever hearing opposing viewpoints.
Try not to get your panties in a wad Dan. I acknowledged that it wasn’t scientific. Just said it was interesting. Sure it’s all anecdotal, but looking at the level of media coverage, the apparent outrage across the country and even the high number of posts this thread has received, I’d say those are all indicators of widespread doubts about Obama’s policies. Personally I think the people who identify themselves as liberal or conservative are too biased to pay much attention to when trying to figure out where the average American stands. I am more convinced by what independents think. The most recent gallup polls (a little more reliable, I think even you will have to admit) show a decided growth in numbers of independents who are unsettled by the President’s policies and the direction of the country. If Obama is truly to be the President of all Americans, as he proclaimed on election night, and if Democrats are actually going to represent mainstream America, as they often trumpet, they’d do well to pay a little more attention to this grow unease. It isn’t just the far right fringe anymore, no matter how loudly the far left fringe whines that it is.
#178 – Good for you, Herb. I’m glad to see parents who will stand up to ensure their kids get an unbiased education.
C,
My panties are wad-less, thanks. You said: “this seems to indicate that it is more than the right “wetting their pants” over the President’s proposed address.” It does no such thing. All it indicates is that many of those who self-selected to take that particular poll have an unreasonable attitude about the President of the United States addressing this nation’s schoolchildren.
It says nothing about the breadth or depth of such sentiment whatsoever.
@178: Herbie, you might want to stay after and work on your spelling and grammar with one of the teachers once you are finished protecting the children from the president. I count at least seven things wrong with your post, grammar-wise.
I can’t decide if a bunch of parents showing up for this speech is the nuttiest thing I have ever heard or not, but it is right up there with New Coke — a Really Bad Idea. Talk about disrupting the school day! A bunch of Chicken Little-like parents holding their hands over their child’s ears? Please, give the president and your child — not to mention the rest of us — more credit!
Take yourselves out of the equation for a moment.
There are places in this country — in our communities right here in Southwest Virginia — where children are not given the message that school can be a way to a better future. A lot of kids don’t have a strong, positive male role model in their lives. A lot of kids never hear from a man who looks like them who has a position of importance and consequence.
For some children a speech by President Obama directed at them is the chance of a lifetime. An opportunity to hear from a black man who made it. He studied hard and earned his way through college. He is an alternative to a lot of so-called role models (or at least people who get a lot of attention for their fame) who are brash, athletes or bling-wearing rappers. There are a lot of kids who need to hear that message. And no, it just would never have the same effect coming from a white politician.
But the president’s planned speech is aimed at all children: study hard, take school seriously and you can become a better citizen. There is simply nothing wrong with our president sending that message to our children. If just one changes his or her life for the better as a result then I think it is worth the time.
And I promise he will not turn Little Johnny into a communist. To think that will happen is something bordering on paranoid.
How about the growing unease among independents as reflected by gallup poles on whether or not the country is headed in the right direction and the President’s policies Dan? care to address those?
@178I think we have started something with alot of parents in Bedford county.
We have contacted the school principle and let them know that we will be in the classroom or auditorium when our kids watch, to rebutte and tell our kids the truth.
I think that is fair.
All parents that believe in this should contact thier kids school and let them know the same thing.
I think you are going to have alot of antsy teachers and staff out there when we show up.
Comment by Herb Krebs — September 6, 2009 @ 4:08 pm
Really Herb, what are you really scared of? You can watch with your child and maybe even you will learn something. Is setting goals for yourself and trying to get a good education that imtimidating for you? Is your child afraid of President Obama?
I remember when Bush Sr. spoke to the children and yes, Bedford County allowed it. I did not object to my child listening to him. Oh, you mean that he was really telling the children to buy drugs and not to stay away from them. That must have been why some of the children did drugs, they forgot what he had said.
You are unbelievable, you are going to tell the children what is right. What makes you think that you are right? Refresh my memory. I am so glad that I allowed my children to think for themselves.
To anyone else that thinks your children are going to be brainwashed. You should be ashamed. It does not matter that you like the president or not, you are the ones setting examples for your children. It makes me sick that any of you call yourself Christians.
#182 – Dan, All it indicates is that many of those who self-selected to take that particular poll have an unreasonable attitude about the President of the United States addressing this nation’s schoolchildren”.
Here we have a president who has surrounded himself with cheats, socialists, racists, was associated with an admitted terrorist, and who has lied to the American people from the moment he announced his candidacy. People don’t want to expose their children to him because of it.
Why is that an “unreasonable attitude”?
C.B.
What I think is up to me..if you want your children to think for themselves then great, but when yours shows up in jail or pregnant because
you gave no parenting skills or direction of right and wrong them you can live with it.
As far as being christen I am very much one, liberals like yourself are no more then a false profit, claiming the word of God and voting for people that goes for everything God stands for.
As far as teaching my children what is right, it is what I believe that I will instill into them.
I guess your idea is get a good education, work hard then let Obama take what he wants.
If that is your idea of right you can have it.
Saintbridge,
0bama won’t know what he’ll say until he sees it on the teleprompter, and neither do you, but I’d be shocked if he didn’t drift off into policy. The other thing is, what child wants to listen to this idiot ramble on for an hour about anything?
CB,
If you want children to think for themselves, as you say, why are you afraid of them getting a viewpoint other than the Great Ruler’s?
Sorry, Suzie, I disagree.
The lecture the Dear Leader reads off of the teleprompter will be squeeky clean and not have any controversial contents. That way, once it’s over, the libs can say, “SEE? We told you!”
I have no doubt that what he reads is nowhere near what he was going to read before parents spoke up.
@188: There we go again with the name-calling. How very mature, Suzie. What a great example you must set for the young people in your life.
And I think I just explained in #183 why it is important for some children to hear the president’s message about staying in school. We have a very high dropout rate in Roanoke and maybe some of those children go on to become productive citizens but I be the majority underachieve in life and that many become a burden on society — and that cost you and me money.
Again, take yourself out of the equation and think about others who just might benefit from this opportunity. The
#191 – Saintbridge: “We have a very high dropout rate in Roanoke and maybe some of those children go on to become productive citizens but I be the majority underachieve in life and that many become a burden on society — and that cost you and me money.”
Sorry, I find it ironic that you ridicule Herb about his grammar in message #183, then you write this.
Pot, meet kettle.
Who would have thought that a Presidential speech to American school children would create an incident of mass hysteria similar to the Salem Witch Trials. Mass fear and paranoia.
My teen years were in the 60′s and 70′s, I remember Civil Right’s sit ins, Kent State, Ruby Ridge, the VN war and war protests and never is all my years have I ever feared my gov’t.. Now do have concern over the National Guard and a few crazy governors, but things actually have gotten better. We seem to learn from mistakes.
Here is my list of fears or rather concerns started back in the Reagan era.
Reduced taxes, I don’t like them anymore than anyone else,at the Federal, State and Local level have resulted in:
1. A cut back in school nurses. Now with the flu on the horizon there appears to be a crisis.
2. Due to lack of funding for staff and resources, the monitoring, enforcing and safety of our food supply is in question. I can not recall so many food recalls, alerts or food poisoning outbreaks.
3. The lack of Congress understanding the simple mathematical concept of “input should equal or increase output”. Everyone knew that baby boomers were headed for Soc. Sec and Medicare. So why is there a crisis of lack of funding. Obviously, the mind set of I’ve got mine, you get yours won out over the common sense approach of preparing for the future.
4. Deregulation and lack of funding to monitor large financial institutions for funny money accounting. Retirement accounts shot to hell. Wasn’t it Bush #2 who wanted to place Soc. Sec. into the stock market? Personally, I think it was a ploy to shore up the market long enough for profit taking before the public found out what a mess Wall Street was in. Sort of a “let them eat cake” attitude.
5. And Health care. I fear the apathy of voters who elect Legislators and don’t realize that Congress has been in the past and appears to be now, run by large corporations who want things to remain the same to continue on with their profits leaving many low income working American still without health care coverage. The few concessions made by these corporation are policies they could have could have already been in place if they weren’t worried more about profits than human life. They are going to still make a more than healthy profit by eliminating competition.
The sky is falling the sky is falling, lions and tigers and bears Oh MY!
No a presidentioal speech to my grandchildren does not scare me.
@187 You really are scared. As for my children, they do very well for themselves. One is 30+, went to college, has a great job. The other is in college and both make decisions for themselves. Just think, they think for themselves, never been to jail, and never pregnant. As a parent, you want to instill (form of brainwashing)your views. Gee, maybe they will be able to think for themselves eventually.
@189 They do listen to other viewpoints and they decide for themselves.
With so much ugliness in this world, our children listening to the president speak will push some of us over the edge.
@190 Since you know what the president was going to read before the parents became upset, what is the weather going to be like this Saturday?
C.B.
You want kids to think for them selves then make thier own decisions and think as adults.
Ok I am for that. Now lets take another view.
If I kid shoots and kills someone or robs someone lets take your view and
treat them as adults all the time. That means the death penalty or prison without parole.
As for my two they are 14 and 12. They have some latitude but still they here both sides of the issue.
I dont hate Obama I hate his policies and tell my kids why I hate them and the reprocussions from them, from my view. As for brainwashing I guess it is no differant then the colleges, and the media we have today.
I I do want to think for themselves, just not in the way the is distructive to this country as you, Obama and the left are.
What would worry me is what takes place after Obama gives his talk to the schoolkids. I would guess that there will be a discussion session lead by the teacher who more than likely is a liberal card carrying member of the NEA.
Patrick #190
You may very well be right. 0bama’s handlers may have decided it would be problematic for them to go ahead with the socialist stuff. I also agree with you that his message would have undeniably been partisan without the outcry.
Saintbridge #191
I can’t think of anything sillier than to say 0bama will serve as some sort of substitute father for school-age black males just from a few minutes of platitudes.
Considering what many here consider “socialist stuff” to be, A simple “hello, I’m Barack Obama” would qualify for many of you. Your fear and loathing are as palpable as they are laughable.
I think it is good whenever a President or anyone of stature and accomplishment is willing to speak with and motivate school children and you folks do too when it is someone you admire and respect. Obama has lived and prospered this long without either from you and I daresay he will be able to maintain that status quo to all of our satisfaction.
I enjoy every speech he gives, and I am so happy to be able to say that after 8 long hard years of Bush/Cheney. You’ll survive, you won’t be happy, but you do not strike me as cheerful folk anytime.
The crack journalists at FOX managed to get hold of the transcript of tomorrow’s speech written by 0bama’s handlers.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/07/raw-data-obama-speech-american-school-children/
While they apparently were forced to cut out the overt references to 0bama’s socialist agenda, they did manage to plant subtler references. Not one of 0bama’s five examples of students overcoming challenges had them going to college and graduating into private U.S. enterprise. 0bama named three underprivileged kids; One had a serious medical condition that harmed his memory (if only he’d had 0bamacare), another graduated from college into the field of “public health” (rather than a crooked private practice) and the other is “managing a health clinic” (a public entity, rather than a private a hospital). His other references were Michael Jordan, an athelete, and J.K. Rowling, a non-American.
So why couldn’t have 0bama included a story about an underprivileged child who worked hard and became an engineer or started a business? No, they all aspired for a life working in the public sector.
Even when these socialists supposedly “cleaned up” 0bama’s speech, they still couldn’t help themselves.
Yeah, those “crack” journalists at Fox got the same e-mail from the White House I got today announcing that the speech was available at whitehouse.gov, and helpfully including a link. That certainly is some tough investigative journalism they demonstrated there, Suzie.
And, you’re right, the socialism is hidden just under the surface, like here:
And that’s what I want to focus on today: the responsibility each of you has for your education. I want to start with the responsibility you have to yourself. …
And no matter what you want to do with your life – I guarantee that you’ll need an education to do it. You want to be a doctor, or a teacher, or a police officer? You want to be a nurse or an architect, a lawyer or a member of our military? You’re going to need a good education for every single one of those careers. You can’t drop out of school and just drop into a good job. You’ve got to work for it and train for it and learn for it.
And this isn’t just important for your own life and your own future. What you make of your education will decide nothing less than the future of this country. What you’re learning in school today will determine whether we as a nation can meet our greatest challenges in the future. …
We need every single one of you to develop your talents, skills and intellect so you can help solve our most difficult problems. If you don’t do that – if you quit on school – you’re not just quitting on yourself, you’re quitting on your country.
What a reprehensible message to send this nation’s school children. No wonder parents wanted to shield their children from this.
Impeach Obama now!
@198 “but you do not strike me as cheerful folk anytime”
Geez! Try typing something, anything, that just once doesn’t contain a personal attack. Go on, you can do it. Just think of it as change you could believe in.
Your right Dan. That “crack investigative journalism” rivals the efforts of the Roanoke Times, though I will give it to you that the RTEB sure can come up with some obscure and largely irrelevant studies and statistics to support it’s agenda.
@199: “While they apparently were forced to cut out the overt references to 0bama’s socialist agenda …”
Astonishing! How on earth is it that you are so wise as to know this to be fact? You really are cracking me up today!
Today is the day that something extraordinary will happen. School children will secretly send the pirated Obama speech to their friends. Using Internet underground pathways that only the kids know how to use – they will send the dangerous speech video, the one feared by parents around the country, to their sheltered friends. For sure, if you don’t want children and teens to see something, try to hide it or somehow keep them from it. Youth love to see and do things their parents dislike. The pirated video of the “the ” speech is going to turn up everywhere ruining lives – just like rock and roll did in the 50′s.
Uhh, thank you for that, ummmm, wonderful piece you just wrote Robin, ummmm, Barn…Barnhill. I cant tell you, uhhh , how glad I am that , ummmm, errr…, our children will get to hear one of the, ummm, greatest orators, ummmm, ever to speak, errrr, today.
@195 I do want to think for themselves, just not in the way the is distructive to this country as you, Obama and the left are.
Comment by Herb Krebs — September 7, 2009 @ 1:42 pm
Herb, ever heard of anger management? You make sure you watch the president with your child, watch for aliens that may possibly reach out of the television. Of course you would need to think about what to do if that was to happen.
I’m not sure how you got off the subject of the president speaking and wondered on to children commiting crimes and going to jail. Yes, if your child watches the president, they will become distructive to this country. Do you not think before you write?
You are actually a comically individual. Your posts above really shows your thought process. The children in this world are now going to turn into criminals for watching the president. I guess watching Bush Sr. turned them into druggies.
Good grief. This seems much ado about nothing, but the funniest piece of this story is that, contrary to what Dan wrote earlier, Dems were apoplectic when Bush 41 spoke to students in 1991.
Democrats, then in control of Congress, ordered a GAO investigation into the production of the speech.
“The Department of Education should not be producing paid political advertising for the president, it should be helping us to produce smarter students,” said Richard Gephardt, then the House Majority Leader.
Democrats actually held a full-scale heaaring on the speech. On October 17, 1991, Ford summoned then-Education Secretary Lamar Alexander and other top Bush administration officials to testify at a hearing devoted to the speech. “The hearing this morning is to really examine the expenditure of $26,750 of the Department of Education funds to produce and televise an appearance by President Bush at Alice Deal Junior High School in Washington, DC,” Ford began. “As the chairman of the committee charged with the authorization and implementation of education programs, I am very much interested in the justification, rationale for giving the White House scarce education funds to produce a media event.”
The National Education Association denounced the speech, saying it “cannot endorse a president who spends $26,000 of taxpayers’ money on a staged media event at Alice Deal Junior High School in Washington, D.C. — while cutting school lunch funds for our neediest youngsters.”
Most of the above information came from the DC Examiner in this story (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/When-Bush-spoke-to-students-Democrats-investigated-held-hearings-57694347.html)
It just cracks me up that the same reaction from the other side of the political spectrum would generate such strong feelings from the RTEB who, for reasons unknown, completely forgot about how Dems reacted in 1991.
I think it’s great that the president will speak to school children today, including mine. I just wish the good people at the RTEB would be a bit more consistent, or even honest, in their reporting of the current and historic reaction to presidential speeches to kids. It seems a shame that we’ll have to wait at least one more year for them to do so.
Lol, Mark (#205). And that’s how 0bama talks when the teleprompter is working
For those who may be interested, theologian and conservative commentator Albert Mohler has a very balanced take on the reaction to the president’s speech on his blog at http://www.albertmohler.com
Yes, and W was such a great public speaker. Did he ever learn how to pronounce NUCLEAR?
FYI, I voted for George W. Bush twice, and I voted for Obama last November. I regret deeply supporting Bush, and I’m trying to reserve judgment on Obama until he’s had more time in office to follow through on some of his campaign promises.
I think parents should have the choice whether to let them hear the President’s speech. I also think that believing listening to the President talk about the importance of education equals indoctrinating kids to be socialists is absurd.
Bush may never have said the word correctly but Obama has “umm” down pat.
Hey, at least Bush didnt promise to have tea and cupcakes with ‘Newcler’ ready countries that would rather cut our throats from behind than ask if we want one or two sugars.