2012.02.05
Point / Counterpoint: Sunday hunting
This week’s topic: Should Sundays remain a day of rest for hunters in Virginia?
Hiker and naturalist Bob Peckman makes the case for keeping the ban on Sunday hunting. Commonwealth’s Attorney Donald Caldwell urges an end to the ban. Read their arguments and rebuttals below.
And don’t miss our live chat on Monday when Peckman and Caldwell will answer your questions about Sunday hunting.
Point: Sunday hunting ban keeps hikers safe
Bob Peckman
Peckman is a retired engineer/physicist from ITT, a working jazz drummer and an avid hiker and naturalist.
My father once met a hunter who hadn’t seen anything, but he had gotten a couple of sound shots. While it would be disgraceful to characterize even a small minority of hunters like this, I have never seen a hunting accident that I wouldn’t call negligent homicide. If you are going to kill an animal, then you need to have a good enough shot to cleanly kill it. No person looks like a clean shot at a deer, yet every year hunting accidents are reported. It is unfair to force the risk of hunting onto non-hunters.
Tourism hunting is not a valid reason to lift the Sunday hunting ban. If I were to travel to Virginia for hunting, it would not be just for a weekend. I would drive on Saturday, Sunday I would stake out what I wanted to do, hunt from Monday to Saturday and drive home on Sunday.
The original purpose of the Sunday hunting ban was to prevent us all from sinning by hunting on the Lord’s day. I resent being told anything about how or if I should worship. All blue laws tend to force me to do things on my Sabbath that I would prefer to do on Sunday. I have no religious ground for supporting the Sunday hunting ban.
Here in Virginia, as in most of the country, we need to kill more deer. We have so many deer that most of the seedlings in the forest are eaten. To make matters worse, the deer prefer the native species of trees, giving a real advantage to invasive species. It is not for ecological reasons that I support the Sunday hunting ban.
Unfortunately, deer are no smarter than people when it comes to population control. The deer populations increase until there is no more food. Starvation is an inhumane way to die. When that happens, deer browse higher and higher. The smaller ones can’t reach as high and die first. The larger ones are often the ones too old to breed the following year, resulting in a terrible population crash. My tender heart for Bambi is not why I support the Sunday hunting ban.
So why should we keep the Sunday hunting ban? While the ban on Sunday hunting may not reduce the number of hunting accidents, it does reduce the number of Sunday hiker deaths. Hunters choose to take the risk in order to hunt. We hike in the woods on Sundays because we don’t want to take the risk. If the risk were lower, then I would favor lifting the ban. Keep the Sunday hunting ban.
Counterpoint: There is no legal justification for hunting ban
Donald Caldwell
Caldwell is the commonwealth’s attorney for Roanoke.
Let me be candid on two fronts. First, I am a hunter and have pursued this recreational activity for more than 50 years, beginning in my youth in Botetourt County. As I have aged, I have been fortunate to have had the opportunity to hunt in a number of states across this wonderfully free nation where hunting is allowed on Sunday and have noticed absolutely no damage to the quality of life or diversity of recreational opportunities in those states where competing recreational activities seem to coexist peacefully. Second, I am an attorney by education and a Commonwealth’s Attorney by trade. This experience has trained me to attempt to ignore emotion in examining legal issues. So, when you ask me whether hunting on Sunday should be permitted by law, I say, “There is really no legal justification for a continued ban on Sunday hunting in the Commonwealth.”
In support of this position, I submit that there is no credible biological or game management justification for Virginia’s current prohibition on Sunday hunting. I surmise, based upon my experience as Commonwealth’s Attorney for Roanoke City during the demise of Virginia’s Sunday Blue Laws in 1988 (Benderson Dev. Co., Inc. v. Sciortino, 236 Va. 136, 372 S.E.2d 751), that the roots can be traced back to a kinder, gentler time when Sunday was considered a day of rest and family togetherness. Of course, common sense tells us that, even before the Blue Laws were on the books, there were necessarily some practical exceptions to the day-of-rest paradigm because the cows needed to be milked, animals fed, meals prepared, sermons preached, etc. Consequently, despite the proverbial “blind eye” that preceded the original adoption of the Sunday Blue Laws, the attempt to legislate citizen conduct on Sunday became riddled with numerous irreconcilable exceptions reflecting the reality that Sunday could not be treated in a vacuum in an evolving religiously-diverse society that is engaged in innumerable business, recreational, and religious activities seven days a week, 52 weeks a year.
Objectively, there is no legal basis to continue a total prohibition. My experience with Sunday hunting in other states shows me that all outdoor recreational activities can be (and are elsewhere) accommodated with common sense regulations. Hikers will still hike, bikers will still bike, bird watchers will still watch, four wheelers will still four wheel, fishermen will still fish, etc. In sum, all citizens who do not hunt will continue to have the opportunity to pursue their chosen outdoor recreational activity seven days a week. Allowing a Sunday hunting opportunity would simply mean that the citizen hunter would be treated as fairly as other citizens currently are.
Bob Peckman’s rebuttal
Mr. Caldwell,
You seem unaware of the discomfort that non-hunters in the woods feel at the risk of being accidentally shot. It is a risk that you have become numb to, but you cannot project that lack of awareness onto others. It is not a fear based on emotions; it is a fear based on actuarial data.
While there may be no legal justification that requires Virginia’s Sunday hunting ban, Virginia needs no special justification for any of the laws we choose to write protecting any citizens we choose to protect.
The age of the Blue Laws was not a kinder and gentler time. Any thoughts that it was are consistent with your lack of empathy for the rights of non-hunters to avoid the risk from hunters.
One role of government is to protect us from each other. For example, if you are unaware that your actions are impacting a neighbor’s water supply, we write or enforce laws which limit your rights to impact others.
In this case you seem unaware that hunting imposes a risk on non-hunters. We happen to already have a law on the books, written for all the wrong reasons, which limits your right to impact me. It is a good compromise. The risk to me is small enough that you are allowed to hunt six days per week. But one day is reserved for me to be in the woods, paddling the steams adjoining private property, hiking the narrow Appalachian Trail right-of-way or enjoying any other outdoor activity. I think you should be content to share the woods in this way.
Donald Caldwell’s rebuttal
Life is an exercise in the assumption of risk, and responding to the unsubstantiated argument that Sunday hunting will provide a statistically appreciable increase in hiker deaths is an exercise in responding to perception rather than reality or, as indicated in the original article, emotion rather than logic.
I submit that one’s risk of being killed or injured in a hunting-related incident while hiking is far, far lower than the daily risk that we (and the hiker) take in driving on the highway. (According to the National Safety Council 2011 edition, lifetime odds of death in a motor vehicle accident are 1 in 88 while lifetime odds of death by firearm discharge, presumably both intentional and unintentional acts, are 1 in 6,309.) I would make an educated guess that injuries in these same activities would roughly parallel.
All recreational pursuits have potential to harm others who are not involved. An example is the hiker who is responsible for a fatal vehicular accident on the way to the trail. Although there are abusers in every aspect of regulated human conduct, most hunters prove to be sound in the exercise of their ethical and legal responsibilities.
Ditch the emotion and enact Sunday hunting with common sense parameters.
Sundays should be a day of rest for the deer!
Comment by SDBlacksburg — February 6, 2012 @ 9:31 am
Donald,
Thank you for your common sense approach on the issue. I like to show this map when the Sunday hunting discussion comes up. The fact is that states that allow hunting on Sunday are not putting their citizens or their wildlife populations at risk.
http://www.nraila.org/images/sundayhunting.jpg
Comment by Jason — February 6, 2012 @ 10:58 am
I do not think this is only an issue of hikers. There are plenty of families and horse riders who also use the woods on Sunday with the relative safety of hunters and stray bullets not being along for the excursion.
My brother was shot while turkey hunting so do not tell me “all hunters” do much of anything. Some shoot first and ask questions later and there is no way to keep a bullet on private property no matter what you all say. Six days per week is enough.
Don’t like the “blue law” connotation, make Saturday the no hunting day and hunt on Sundays to your heart’s content. Failing that, make it a local decision altogether.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 6, 2012 @ 11:57 am
I would like for Bob to specifically point to actual hiker deaths from hunters here in VA over- say the past decade. How many Bob? That would be a rarer occurance than a lightning strike. Bob- people still shoot guns and target practice on Sundays. As for deer resting- thats ridiculous. Deer never get to rest. With license sales falling from close to 500,000 hunters a couple decades ago, to closer to 300,00 now, they certainly get hunted much less during most weekdays. Lets call a spade a spade- the bill that passed through the senate was for Sunday hunting on PRIVATE LAND. If you are hiking, birdwatching or “naturalizing” on my property on Sunday- you sir, are trespassing! The said bill has no effect on current public land usage.
Comment by Highlander — February 6, 2012 @ 12:29 pm
Sandi- are you telling me you never hear gunshots on Sundays? I have a great suggestion- lets outlaw hunting on Mondays. That way everyone gives the so -called day of rest, and you folks can take YOUR vacation time now to hike and ride on MONDAYS. Most hunters have been using their vacation dates for decades in order to hunt- its time for you to pitch in – thats fair right??
Comment by Highlander — February 6, 2012 @ 12:33 pm
I live at he edge of the National Forest in Craig county Virginia. I am a hunter and a hiker. The Appalachian Trail crosses my property lines. I love to hike as do many day hikers on the AP Trail on weekends. I have seen a conflict with hunters and hikers on Saturdays on the AP Trail. I
feel that high velocity guns put hikers at risk on Saturdays with this overlap during deer and bear seasons. I have personaly had these high velocity bullits hit the trees above me in the woods on Saturdays. Sunday is a day of least risk to hikers and large animals. A 22 bullit will travel miles if fired into the air and hit the ground at the same speed as when it left the barrel. High tree and vegitation cover make Virginia a special case for a ban on Sunday hunting. I actually wear hunter orange all the time on my property against the National Forest. I am always aware of any gunshots on Sunday with the fear of Sunday poaching in my area. Please leave Sunday up as a day of rest and quiet that I dearly love in my mountain retreat.
Comment by Ray Roberts — February 6, 2012 @ 1:15 pm
Where is common sense in all this? If the arguement about the risk and fears were true then one would expect the woods to be free of non-hunters the rest of the week…correct. Simply not the truth!!
Every year I deal with hikers, mountain bike riders, and accasionally horse riders, on “PRIVATE Property”, all on Monday thru Saturday. They not only were not afraid but boldly approached me. All were trespassers, all were in areas they had no permission to be, yet my outing was ruined.
I’ll gladly continue to give up Sunday. Just give me a “hunting only” day in return. I do pay the state for a hunting license and the right to be out there. Shouldn’t there be a hiking, biking, horse back riding fee as well? Seems only fair.
Comment by Hawkeye — February 6, 2012 @ 1:22 pm
I am totally against it but I know it is going to pass in the near future. But when it does pass I wish they could make it so they (hunters) could not hunt with DOGs on Sunday.
At least that would be some kind of help for those of us that do oppose hunting on Sunday.
Currently the dog hunters run their dogs all over private property they can’t hunt on, but there is nothing we can do about that. So saying they can’t hunt on private property really means nothing.
Comment by Amie — February 6, 2012 @ 1:35 pm
Great blog on shooting on Sundays…..
Comment by Ray Roberts — February 6, 2012 @ 2:34 pm
I and anyone else that desires to hunt on PRIVATE land they have bought and paid for and pay taxes on should have the right to do so any day of the week.Period.
Comment by Huntersdad — February 6, 2012 @ 2:53 pm
Hawkeye, you couldn’t be more right! They (non-hunters) are going to say that those hikers, bikers, and horse people are not posing a threat to you as you “MIGHT” to them. This just doesn’t fly. They are just as likely to break a leg while hiking, flip over the front of the bike, or be thrown from a horse as they are to be hit by a stray bullet (probably more likely). And if they are going to use property we use, why aren’t they paying for it?? Not that this topic is focused around public lands, but I’m pretty certain hikers haven’t had to buy National Forest stamps…ever.
I’m not saying that I will spend every waking Sunday in the woods, hunting as if I were on a safari. But I’d like the choice, as every other person who’s as much of an outdoor enthusiast as I am has.
Comment by Clay — February 6, 2012 @ 3:15 pm
We enjoy paddling the river in the fall but it won’t be much fun with bullets whizzing past our heads. We enjoy taking the dog in the woods but when she hears a gunshot she clings to my side – 70+ lbs. of dog underfoot. We enjoy introducing two little grandsons to the woods, but not if it is a risk to their lives. Six days of hunting should be enough leaving one day for the folks who want to enjoy the woods in peace and safety.
Comment by Sue Bane — February 6, 2012 @ 3:37 pm
Mr Peckman is an anti hunter. Safety is his excuse to stop hunting on another day of the week. If it wasn’t safety, it would be something else.
Repeal the Sunday hunting ban NOW.
No BS about safety.
No religious BS (“The deer need a sabbath” is religious BS)
Repeal the law everywhere that hunting is legal. The private property only compromise is an elitist rule that screams, “ALL Y’ALL POOR GUYS GET OUT OF THE WOODS!!! SUNDAY IS A DAY SET ASIDE FOR THE LANDED ELITES?” If you want to stimulate the economy, allow the guys that have to drive out of town to hunt to stay out on Sunday. People who own land walk out their doors, hunt, and go back to their house when they are done. Public land hunters eat in country stores, buy gas and buy supplies.
Non hunters will still have 43 out of 52 (almost 80%) Sundays where no high powered rifles are being shot in the woods. Nobody gets shot accidentally during bow season. The most prevalent accidental shooting with a firearm involving hunters, is a hunter being shot by his hunting partner getting in or out of the truck.
Even if you count small game hunting, the non hunters will still have 60% of the year in which they don’t have to see the people who pay for the maintenance of the resource that they are using.
Perhaps it is time for hikers and birders to start paying their way. They should be required to purchase a National Forest stamp, at least, as a way to end the freeloading…
Duncan
Comment by Duncan — February 6, 2012 @ 4:38 pm
PS; I live on the AT. The kids come up out of Blacksburg and Roanoke on Saturday as well as as Sunday every warm day during hunting season and hike and bike the National Forest areas, nobody gets shot.
And I forgot to mention how insulting Mr Peckman’s “sound shots” story was…it’s a lie, it’s a REALLY old story told by anti hunters since AT LEAST the 1960s, ’cause that’s the first time that i heard it told. And I can’t believe the editors here let it slide.
Duncan
Comment by Duncan — February 6, 2012 @ 4:48 pm
Sorry, but having to drape myself in blaze orange during the rest of the week so I don’t accidentally get shot by a hunter is reason enough for me not to want hunting on Sunday’s.
Granted, the risk of being shot accidentally is miniscule, but it’s a risk nonetheless.
If it were a case of “I absolutely have to hunt on Sunday or my family will starve” then I could see it. But it’s not.
Krogers is open 24 hours a day.
Comment by Michael — February 6, 2012 @ 4:51 pm
If you wear your Blaze orange six days a week already, it’s no big deal to wear it on Sunday, let me know if you need a blaze orange tie, I’ve got one you can have, I won’t need it any more, since I will be HUNTING on Sunday…:)
Comment by Duncan — February 6, 2012 @ 4:59 pm
“There have been nearly 400 serious hunting-related accidents in Virginia since 1998…
In 17 of the shooting fatalities, the shooter was firing at what he thought was an animal, violating one of hunting’s sacred safety rules…
…Of 39 firearms-related hunting fatalities in Virginia since 1998, none involved a nonhunter” UNTIL Jessica Goode’s death that is.
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/226868
So you all tell me, how many is too many and how do YOU keep a bullet on your private property? Surely one day not hunting will not harm you.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 6, 2012 @ 6:15 pm
And for the record, I am not remotely “anti-hunter”. I have a family full of them and I know the skill, dedication, effort, cost and time it consumes. After being shot, my brother wnet right back to hunting and will do so as long as he is able.
I am vehemently anti fools having guns. Find a way to stop that and all gun owners, carriers and hunters will be fine.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 6, 2012 @ 6:18 pm
Where are all the hikers, bikers, horse people and birders doing their trespassing? This is a PRIVATE LAND, property rights issue. The idiocy of most humans never ceases to amaze me. One guy above says his risk of being shot is miniscule- then calls it risky business, WTH? Does this guy have a lightning rod strapped to his skull all the time too? He should- because he statistically has more of a chance of getting struck by lightning while hiking than getting shot. The Sunday hunting haters are using pure emotion and zero fact to whine and blow a baseless wind…..In the OTHER 44 states- where hunting is legal on private AND public lands- the sky is not falling, non-hunters are not cowering in their homes. It comes down to these vocal people just- not- liking- hunting. OR hiding behind ridiculous arguments to further a religious position and pushing their dogma on others.
Comment by Highlander — February 6, 2012 @ 6:20 pm
Go Mr Caldwell! There is supposed to be separation of church and state,this is America,so ditch the ban. I’m afraid to go out on sunday;s ,a golf ball may hit me,haha.
Comment by mike houchens — February 6, 2012 @ 7:30 pm
Highlander, is every square inch of your property posted and marked? It is hardly fair to call people trespassers when land is not fenced, marked or identified. And you have yet to share how you keep bullets discharged on your property from leaving your property. How many people, pets or property being shot is “acceptable” to you? No, the anti-hunting on Sunday folks are not the only ones who are amazingly idiotic. Not by a mile.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 6, 2012 @ 7:43 pm
The game regulations that are set in the state need to be based on science and science alone. There is no biological impact by hunting on Sunday, nor is there anymore increased danger from hunting on Sunday opposed to Saturday. The original bill called for private land only and it was still at the land owners discretion if they wanted to allow you to hunt. For the folks that like to hike and horseback ride, take a drive out to some public land spots during the general firearms season and see the hunting pressure thats there, I am sure you will be surprised by the low volume of traffic in our national forests during hunting seasons nowadays. This regulation is still in place because larger, more well organized groups have lobbied our state politicians to keep it in place and our politicians have followed the “scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours” philosophy by doing their behind closed door deals. How hard is it to vote against something when you are promised by a fellow legislator that they will make sure your bill gets thru with enough votes if you vote no on this bill.
Comment by Jim Basham — February 6, 2012 @ 9:01 pm
I will grant you that adding another day to the list of days hikers, bikers, horse riders and families have to weigh the risk of being outdoors may not statistically add to the volume of accidental shootings, but that is cold comfort to the one who is that statistic. I think 6 to 1 are good enough and it should be left alone.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 6, 2012 @ 9:23 pm
Mr. Caldwell, Virginia has always justified it’s Sunday hunting regulations on a “day of rest” foundation. Today in Virginia over 2/3rds of our wild species offer some form of hunting on Sunday. As our legislature debates SB464 it’s very apparent that if Sundays remain restricted it will have to be on a risk basis.
If VA restricts hunting on Sunday based on risk, could that compromise it’s ability to defend itself in legal actions arising from hunting accidents that occur on days other than Sunday?
Should VA examine risks associated with weaponless hound hunting, and trapping, since these are codified hunting forms? Again, if VA continues it’s Sunday hunting restrictions, but bases the restriction on risk, would it not have a duty to also remove chasing and trapping since they would be forms of hunting that represented risk?
Comment by Tony Rutherford — February 6, 2012 @ 10:13 pm
This is a freedom and liberty issue, the days of the crown telling us what we can and can’t do on Sunday are over. Well that is for everything but certain types of hunting on Sunday.
As with most arguments that are based on fear and irrational feelings the doom and gloom prediction in the other states that have lessened their Sunday hunting restrictions haven’t come true.
Nobody can make you feel anything, whether it is a feeling of safety or of feeling of fear. As an individual you control that, whether it is based on reality or your own perceptions.
If anybody has spent any amount of time in the country on Sunday they would know that firing of weapons is not illegal on Sunday. Some Sundays in the rural parts of Virginia have far more gunfire from practice shooting and those who are enjoying the shooting sports.
It is time for the fear mongering to be labeled for what it is and for the reality of the low level of risk to be accepted.
The law change we seek does not say that you MUST participate in Sunday hunting, we ask only to be given the freedom and liberty to choose.
Comment by Matthew O'Brien — February 6, 2012 @ 11:33 pm
So Sandi, how many lives are lost DAILY from driving automobiles? Are you going to stop driving? Jessica Goode’s death was tragic and was caused by someone hunting…ILLEGALY! I really don’t think that individual would have cared what day of the week it was. There is so much unfounded fear mongering over this topic that it makes me sick. Even in rural Virginia where it is made to seem that it is the “Wild West” with bullets flying everywhere, you are far more likely to die from falling in your house than to a stray bullet. Think about that for a second, let it sink in.
There are 44 other states that legalized Sunday hunting and guess what? The sky didn’t fall! Non-hunters didn’t end up getting picked off like they were in a shooting gallery! It is simply unfounded fear!
Sunday hunting is an emotional issue to many and the arguments given against it have all been based on emotions and not facts. Get rid of the Blue Laws Virginia! There’s no place for them in the Commonwealth!
Comment by Rob — February 7, 2012 @ 12:07 am
Yes. Can there not be one day an animal can’t just go about its business without someone killing it for no reason? It’s not a sport until the animals have guns (and opposable thumbs) too.
Comment by garc — February 7, 2012 @ 10:10 am
I am sick and tired of the supporters of the Sunday hunting ban basing their standpoint on “relative fear” and “I feel like…this” and not on facts, science, and truth. There is room for a debate here, but not as long as folks want to maintain a debate based on the false premise that they cower in fear, locked up in their homes, from Monday-Saturday throughout hunting season every year.
Some facts?
1. In the 44 states that allow Sunday hunting, is the rate of hunting accidents higher than Virginia’s? No.
2. In the 44 states that allow Sunday hunting, does any data (whatsoever) indicate that church attendance has decreased? No.
3. In Virginia, do deer have a day off from hunters? No, deer dogs already chase deer on Sundays.
4. In Virginia, do deer have a day off from disease, predators, or other natural predators/parasites? No.
5. Do deer poachers and trespassers honor the Sunday hunting ban? NO.
6. Will keeping the Sunday hunting ban address ANY of the common landowner concerns about poachers and trespassers? NO.
7. Do hundreds of thousands of bullets already rain down upon public and private land on Sunday as a result of small game “shooting” (it’s not called “hunting” for some species of wildlife), and recreational/target shooting? YES.
8. Are hikers and riders significantly endangered as a result? NO.
Comment by River Mud — February 7, 2012 @ 10:11 am
26 – how about if they kill it for food?
Comment by 89Hoo — February 7, 2012 @ 10:20 am
So the only way anyone has “a case” for one day a week not to have to worry about hunters in the woods with you is if it “significantly” raises your chance of being shot or killed? Seriously?
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 7, 2012 @ 10:40 am
I’ve hiked all over this great Commonwealth and never once feared being shot and that’s with two young kids. People seem to get a bit hysterical over guns and hunting on Sunday.
Comment by Uptheriver — February 7, 2012 @ 11:33 am
Yes, Sandi, seriously. When you can offer any concrete evidence that adding a day of hunting each week will result in the carnage you and your fellow anti-hunters suggest, those of us who support hunting on our own land might listen to you. If you are so concerned about your well-being, I strongly advise you to throw away your car keys, get rid of your ladders and bathtubs and horses and swimming pools and anything else that poses a very real and substantiated risk. Despite what you continue to say, hunting is not a risk to you, me or anyone. I spend many, many more days in the woods each winter than you do and I have not once had a bullet or arrow “come whizzing by.” I also target shoot on Sundays. Let go of this unfounded fear and perhaps we can have a grown-up discussion about Sunday hunting.
Comment by Fish — February 7, 2012 @ 11:34 am
I don’t get hysterical over hunting on Sundays, but the last time I went to Falls Ridge Nature Conservancy area I WAS a little concerned by the nearby gunshots. The large number of unarmed German Baptists, however, didn’t bother me at all. They were very friendly.
Comment by gdad — February 7, 2012 @ 12:12 pm
It will be hard to have a “grown-up discussion” with someone hiding in anonymity with the name of “Fish”, but sure, I will give it a go. As I mentioned in my post #3, I have had a family member shot while in the woods turkey hunting (and a friend who was shot while deer hunting on his own property) so do not presume to school me on “carnage”. I know hunters love to hunt and I know they already have six days of the week to do it on. The rest of us, the vast and overwhelming majority that we are, have ONE day that we can feel good about being in the woods and you think it can only be taken from us if we have statistical evidence of increased “carnage”? Ever heard of peace and enjoyment? The pursuit of happiness? Why do you think property rights trump them?
I fully support hunting six days per week until such time as you can guarantee bullets discharged on private property stay on private property and you disclose what level of “carnage” is acceptable to you.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 7, 2012 @ 12:29 pm
It is all a matter of perception.
You are much, MUCH more likely to be injured or killed in a car accident that you are strolling though the hunting grounds on Sunday. Or any other day, for that matter. That is a fact.
This is an opinion: Most hunting “accidents” aren’t.
Comment by George Krutz, III — February 7, 2012 @ 1:31 pm
To all those who are convinced that the animals need that day to rest…are any of you aware that those animals are just as frightened of the hiker,horse rider and speeding mountain biker as they are of a hunter with a weapon? If you all really wanted to give the wildlife a rest you would stay out of the woods entirely. There’s another one of the fear mongers arguments shot to hell. (pardon the pun)
Comment by Huntersdad — February 7, 2012 @ 2:30 pm
Coming from a long line of hunters, I am well aware that they get skunked almost as often as the make a kill. The animals are on their own, and while I personally cannot fathom taking the life of a deer, bear or bird, I do not base any of my objection to the rest of us having one day a week free from hunters on a respite for the hunted.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 7, 2012 @ 2:51 pm
Sandi,if that was not the basis of your objection,why do you feel the need to respond to it? I clearly was not addressing your safety concern was I? I was only addressing those who insist that the wildlife need a respite from being chased by hunters, when the wildlife feel just as threatened by any human that venture out into the woods. I’m pretty confident that the safety argument can be shot full of holes also if you and others would only look at the statistics from other states that allow Sunday hunting. Numbers don’t lie.
Comment by Huntersdad — February 7, 2012 @ 3:25 pm
The Seventh Day is the Sabbath and the Seventh Day is the Lord’s Day not the 1st Day Sunday. There is and should be separation between church and state according to our Constitution and according to Jesus. See. Rev. 1:10 Mk. 2:27,28 Matt. 12:8 Is. 58:13 Ex. 20:8-11
Comment by Bo Williamson — February 7, 2012 @ 7:20 pm
I amazes me the number of people who have an opinion on the proposed bills lifting the Sunday hunting ban WHO HAVEN”T EVEN READ THE BILLS. Every single one of them only lifted the ban on PRIVATE PROPERTY and public waters. I’ve been hunting deer and ducks for over30 years and I HAVE NEVER SEEN A HIKER ON THE WATER. Last person who pulled that off live a couple thousand years ago. Please hike all over the Appalachian Trail. There would be no hunters there on Sunday. Don’t trespass on private property and you’d still be perfectly safe. Read the bills before spewing forth ignorant comments.
Comment by Engrdick — February 7, 2012 @ 8:09 pm
You guys don’t seem to understand…when I hunt, I shoot MAYBE three rounds in a day…on Sunday, when hunting is illegal, I shoot HUNDREDS OF ROUNDS in perfectly legal Sunday target practice. Ending the ban will DECREASE the number of rounds in the air on sunday…
Comment by Duncan — February 7, 2012 @ 9:02 pm
SAndi,
Your argument that you have special knowledge because you had a relative shot bt a hunter is a fallacy…a very common one taught in sophomore logic. An appeal to authority, or in this case sympathy…just sayin’ it’s a fallacy, cut it out…I am related to your relative that was shot, meaning that I am your cousin. I happen to know that said relative would be in favor of Sunday hunting….PS: I know, only in Big Lick do you get called out by a cousin in a letter to the editor board…:)…
Comment by Duncan — February 7, 2012 @ 9:11 pm
LOL “Duncan”, so if you can hunt on Sunday, you will no longer “target practice”? How comforting. Tell us how you keep bullets on private property? And, don’t say, you never miss! I know better than that one too.
I did not say nor infer that having a relative and a friend get shot gave me any “special knowledge”. I mentioned it to show that I come from hunters and fully understand the obsession and what can happen regardless of the day of the week. I did not bring “carnage” into this discussion.
I also did not say that I was speaking for any of the hunters in my family. Ask them if it is remotely unusual for me to be of a differing opinion. Actually my other brother has joined me on the blogs a time or two in support of some issues. He does not hide in anonymity, or taunt me about it when we disagree however. I am certain he too would support Sunday hunting. I come from a long line of politically active and fiercely independent people, many of whom have never left the valley, the “odds” are a lot less than you seem to think of finding friends and family here on the local blog.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 7, 2012 @ 9:56 pm
Can Virginians Afford No Sunday Hunting?
Certainly, the Commonwealth has a great duty to protect it’s people. And it’s become quite evident, through the letters and e-mails that our legislators have written, that if our Sundays remain hunt free by law, that decision will be certainly be based on the risks that firearms hunting activities poses to those that aren’t hunting. But when the State recognizes the risk that hunting poses to others, it also has a great duty to recognize the risks that other hunting, nonhunting recreational, or elective activities pose to others. And when a restriction is placed on any activity based on that activity’s risks, the State then places the burden of duty upon itself to restrict other activities that pose similar risks.
The best example would seem to be recreational shooting. When we research risks associated with recreational shooting, and compare those risks to risks associated with firearms usage during hunting activities, we find that data supports that there is much greater risk of injury and fatality associated with nonhunting firearms activities, than those risks directly associated with hunting activities. Apparently, most Virginians believe that hunting on Sunday is unlawful. When in actuality, it’s lawful in Virginia to hunt statewide, during all hours of all Sundays with firearms. Hunting on Sunday is certainly more restricted than all other days, but hunting on Sunday is perfectly legal each Sunday, and statewide. So too, is recreational shooting on Sundays.
So can Virginia’s General Assembly restrict only certain types of hunting, and only enforce those restrictions on Sundays, but not place these same restrictions on recreational shooting activities? Certainly it can, in fact, it’s done so for decades. But can Virginia keep it’s restriction in place on only certain types of hunting, and only on Sundays, and not severely weaken it’s ability to defend itself in legal actions arising from recreational shooting, and especially, legal actions associated with lawful Sunday hunting? It would seem fairly easy to establish that Virginia did recognize risks associated with only certain types of hunting, and only on Sundays, yet has neglected to recognize these same risks that Virginia’s lawful Sunday hunting, and recreational shooting pose to others. If the General Assembly fails to remove it’s current Sunday hunting restrictions could it not be opening the “flood gates” to law suits related to lawful Sunday hunting, and recreational shooting activities? Could Virginia not also be faced with defending itself against law suits where no hunting or shooting was involved, but where it was discovered that the nonhunting recreational activity represented risks similar to the risks that hunting poses? These law suits could very well be related to equine activities, boating, motorcycle and atv activities, bicycling……..or basically any recreational activity that poses about the same risk that hunting poses. Can the Virginia taxpayer afford for the General Assembly to fail to remove it’s current restrictions on Sunday hunting? Should the Virginia’s taxpayer be forced to fund these potential legal actions? Definitely, the General Assembly would need to consider it’s decision much closer.
Here’s an example where there would appear to be no doubt that the taxpayer would be exposed by a General Assembly decision to keep Sunday hunting restrictions in place. Virginia, by law, allows hound hunting for fox, and raccoon statewide, and during all hours of every Sunday. It is also lawful to train bear hounds in certain areas of the State on a number of Sundays. These activities are defined by State code as hunting, although our law prohibits the use of weapon during these chase only hunting activities. If our General Assembly fails to remove our Sunday hunting restrictions, yet at the same time fails to restrict weaponless hound chasing, it would make it quite possible to establish, not only negligence, but in fact, establish gross negligence when legal actions are brought in association with hound chasing. Gross negligence could be established based on the fact that Virginia recognized the risk of hunting with firearms, but never even considered the risks associated with another form of hunting, even though that hunting form prohibited firearms.
Let’s consider this for a moment. It’s important to understand that Virginia has basically no regulations, or controls in place associated with hound chasing. Virginia has essentially granted hounds the right to travel anywhere in the state, and that includes our interstates, primary, and secondary roads, and to travel at anytime. So, for this example we’ll place a school bus traveling along I95, on a Sunday, and filled with teenagers returning from a field trip to King’s Dominion. A pack of fox hounds is in hot pursuit of a beautiful red fox, and the fox sees I95 as it’s best escape route, so it takes a sharp right turn, and heads onto the interstate. The fox is fortunate, and gets by the bus, but the hounds that are in pursuit, cause the bus driver to do what any responsible bus driver would do, which is to take evasive action. The bus driver attempts to maintain control of the bus, but unfortunately she over-corrects and the bus filled with all of it’s teenagers…….there’s no need to finish the story, the ending should be left for you to decide.
If our General Assembly continues to keep our Sunday hunting restrictions in place, could it find itself responsible for damages associated with Sunday collisions between game animals and/or hounds and automobiles, when it’s proven that the lawful hunting activity directly contributed to the collision? Would the State not only be responsible for property damages in these cases, but also for personal injury, and in some cases fatality? Just take a minute and consider the number of times our motorists have collided with game animals, and/or hunting dogs. Also consider that once the State is forced to compensate in one of these cases, it will become much more difficult to not compensate for many others.
Regardless of how we feel about hunting, or Sunday hunting, we should all think about what it may cost us if Virginia’s General Assembly is allowed to make, what’s appears on the surface to be a most popular decision, but may prove to be one of Virginia’s most costly legislative decisions ever. We need to also ask ourselves, will the activity that we love also be forced to become restricted on Sundays, because we allowed the restriction of hunting on Sundays. Since the bill that was passed by the majority of our Senate, now sits in the House for consideration is restricted to private lands, could we all not face Sunday recreational restrictions even in our own backyards?
Tony Rutherford
Comment by Tony Rutherford — February 8, 2012 @ 10:40 am
Sandi, I understand what happened to your brother has increased your negativity towards hunting. I also understand that hunting season only lasts a small portion out of the whole year so I advise all non hunters to choose their “outdoor activity” time more wisely, such as outside of hunting seasons. Thank you
Comment by Tyler — February 9, 2012 @ 4:02 pm
Tyler, I appreciate that advice and I believe that is what Sundays are, and have been for non-hunters! If this passes, I see a niche for calendars with the hunting seasons on them being marketed to the rest of us.
FWIW, my animal rights / vegetarian position is what has “increased my negativity towards hunting”. Well that and some of the hunting stories I have heard. I respect anyone who hunts and eats or donates what they kill. I accepted it without question until I grew up.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 9, 2012 @ 4:54 pm
My only point is that you cannot let your negativity towards hunting influence your decision. You must look at the hunters point of view also. Also, if hunters are charged so much to hunt then give me a few reasons why people should not be charged to do outdoor activities on the same land as hunters have to pay to hunt.
Comment by Tyler — February 9, 2012 @ 7:50 pm
Tyler, I will readily agree with you that recreational users do not begin to pay for what they use of “the great outdoors” the way hunters do. Do you have to pay all of those hunting fees if you only hunt on private land or is that just for the NF stamps and such? I am also well aware that they do more damage (especially with ATV’s) than real hunters and sportsmen will ever do. I am only “anti-hunter” for myself. With the exceptions of the cruel and non-sporting use of dogs and canned hunts, I support hunting rights and hunters. It is in my blood.
I understand the hunter’s point, but I also have friends that have horses and like to ride in the forests and even fields on their own property and they feel uneasy doing so and most will not, during hunting season. I think 6 days of the week is as fair to all as fair is ever going to get. That is not even 50/50 afterall. And no one has yet invented a bullet that will stay on whatever private property you might be on once it is discharged.
I don’t have a certain level of accepted incidents, an accepted level of people feeling uneasy or an accepted level of everyone agreeing. There are issues where everyone cannot be made happy.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — February 9, 2012 @ 8:52 pm