Weekend open thread
You have reached the pinnacle of success as soon as you become uninterested in money, compliments, or publicity.
What’s on your mind this weekend?
March 31, 2012 - 7:37 AM
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March 31, 2012 - 7:37 AM
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Sunday, May 19, 2013
THE ROANOKE TIMES
Finally, a media acknowledgment of howthe media itself shapes what the public believes is “the truth.”
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/31/10952926-are-old-photos-of-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-deceptive
Ahhhhh. Yet another risk of passing a bill so you can find out what’s in it.
http://news.yahoo.com/another-17-trillion-surprise-found-obamacare-133210667.html
What got me was the description of Zimmerman as a “white hispanic”.. anyone ever see our president described as a “white African-American”?
@3 Actually, Bud, Hispanic is an ethnicity while black and white are races. They are different things. So one could be Hispanic and black or Hispanic and white. One could even be Hispanic and Asian.
At least that’s how it works for the U.S. Census Bureau.
Interesting how the lame-stream media moved at warp speed to put the word white in front of Hispanic when describing Zimmerman. Now, NBC has been caught playing a doctored version of the infamous 911 call Zimmerman made that night. The doctored version made Zimmerman look racist, the full version contradicts that notion entirely. NBC lied to the country at a time emotions were running high in this country. Liberalism has destroyed any credibility that the media ever had. Absolutely discusting. Looks like another Tawanna Brawley and Duke Lacross moment.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6
#5 – WHAT? The media has lied to the public? Say it ain’t so!
In other news, water is wet and fire is hot.
To #3 (BUD) and #4 (Christian): I did a Google search on “race vs. ethnicity” and found the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States_Census
Along with a whole bunch of other commentaries, such as the following:
http://jordan-hoehler.newsvine.com/_news/2010/09/29/5204713-race-vs-ethnicity
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Ethnicity_vs_Race
http://anthro.palomar.edu/ethnicity/ethnic_1.htm
Many people out there consider “Hispanic” or “Latino” to be a separate race, but the US Census Bureau does not. All of it seems tremendously arbitrary to me.
Hmmm…I wonder if Obama had 7 sons, if they would look like these kids:
http://www.katu.com/news/national/7-California-boys-arrested-in-attack-on-teen-145286335.html
I wonder how long till Al, Jesse, Louis, and the other professional racists will speak out on this one.
Couple developments…
NBC apparently edited the audio from the 911 call Zimmerman made. The unedited version paints a radically different story than the one NBC, the rest of the professional media and the professional racists used to paint Zimmerman as a hard-core racist:
What NBC reported:
“This guy looks like he’s up to no good … he looks black.”
What was actually said:
Zimmerman: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.”
Dispatcher: “OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?”
Zimmerman: “He looks black.”
Why would NBC have done such a thing?
(Note also that the dispatcher is apparently unaware of the nuances Christian laid out in differentiating between black, white and Hispanic.)
Also, ABC enhanced the video it originally used to question Zimmerman’s story, and revealed that there were a couple of wounds on the back of his head, corroborating his story that he had been in a scuffle. ABC jumped the gun earlier.
Why would ABC have done such a thing?
#8 Note that these guys were charged with hate crimes, Michael. I’ve been told in the past by right wingers that blacks are NEVER charged with hate crimes.
8. Michael, which are you speaking of, the victim I presume?
I see nothing sinister in the editing of that conversation, although the one I heard (I do not remember where) had the full conversation. As more and more comes out this case will still be what it is, a hotbed for all the burdens racism has put on this nation. The “truth” has virtually become irrelevant to the cause. That is the nature of the beast. Blaming the media for playing to the crowd is more than a little disingenuous when that is ALL some people ever want from them.
How often is the Editorial Board here chastised and vilified for not “reflecting the concerns of the community”, as if they were a monolith? How often have news stories been called biased because they did not credit, not credible sources and information? The media cannot win and that is the only constant.
In other developments, the voice calling for help is seeming to be Martin and not Zimmerman and that too makes his families version less than credible.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0401/Trayvon-Martin-case-Conflicting-evidence-emerges
I hope the investigation comes up with some conclusions soon, this has festered long enough.
Yes, I can readily see why you would ask that Michael. Thanks.
As far as editorials are concerned, sure, they can reflect the concerns of the community, or try to influence the community – play to the crowd, as it were. That’s the nature of an editorial.
But when it comes to reporting the news, reporters should stick to that, and that alone. Editing a transcript, and reporting IT as the news, merely to play to the crowd, is irresponsible and unethical (and makes some bald assumptions about the crowd to him it is playing, as well…or perhaps chooses the crowd it is trying to reach). This doesn’t imply sinister motives, but it implies motives of some sort, or maybe only gross incompetence. Neither should be acceptable, and apparently NBC was concerned enough about the issue to initiate an internal investigation looking into the edited audio.
As far as race goes, my reading indicated Zimmerman was Caucasian and Amerindian. His background was more White than Hispanic. So, I am not so sure you would call him Hispanic.
I guess my real question is why does any of this bother you guys so much? The real problem here is a law that essentially says, if you claim self defense in Florida, the prosecutor has to prove it was not before they arrest you. Zimmerman was studying the criminal justice and was very aware of the implications of the law. Now you a have a situation where there is doubt as to the self defense, but the State has chosen not to go forward rather than test their law.
12 – thanks for the link, Sandi, that DOES muddy the issue of who was calling for help…
#10 – Yep, they were charged with hate crimes, gdad. Under this administration, and with Holder doing the stellar job that he is, I wonder if it will actually stand or be dismissed? Based on how he let the Black Panthers slide in Philly, I’m not holding my breath…
#11 – The victim was white, Richard.
#13 – “The “truth” has virtually become irrelevant to the cause.” Truth? What truth? The truth didn’t matter once the race-baited lynchmobs decided Zimmerman was guilty without even having a trial.
17. Michael, you missed the cynicism in my question. As for the beating case, there are no lynch mobs there because there were arrests. Zimmerman was not arrested and a man was killed, not just beaten. Seems a little out of kilter doesn’t it.
15 – I don’t think it’s necessarily true that the state has decided not to go forward; I haven’t seen that they’ve announced a decision one way or the other, and given the scrutiny of this case, I expect any decision will be announced via press conference which will be contentious no matter which way they go. They are NOT going to simply let the matter drop; even if they were so inclined, there is simply too much of a spotlight to do so.
I think it’s safe to say that they are still investigating to determine if they should go forward. It may very well be that they DO decide to go forward and prosecute Zimmerman, but it will be based on the evidence and their investigation, and not on the hate that the professional race baiters and camera hounds are fomenting. That is the responsible thing for them to do, and, oh by the way, it’s in accord with Florida law.
NBC has launched an investigation and yes, as someone who has often complained of edited tapes being released, I do not disagree with your premise. I did not hear the NBC version, I heard the unedited one and don’t see much difference but edited tape in any volatile situation is a bad idea. Whether it was due to time limits or someone wanting to frame the argument, it was a bad idea to do it and a worse idea not to disclose it.
When an unarmed person is killed, an investigation needs to be immediate and thorough and I think the Sanford police brought this on themselves. So “race-baited” or justified, it comes down to “mistakes were made” that in some minds will never be rectified.
#17 Oops, Michael had to backtrack a little on that California case. No real reply possible os you had to make something up, eh, Michael?
20 – Sandi, I don’t think we know enough about the situation to say that “mistakes were made” by anyone. They aren’t done investigating.
It is in the hands of a special prosecutor, who is assigned to determine if the state should move forward against Zimmerman. She has imposed a media blackout, obviously to protect the integrity of the investigation; the drawback to that, of course, is that speculation runs rampant, and the professional race baiters and camera hounds soak up the spotlight. That is likely viewed as an acceptable – though unfortunate – price to pay in order to maintain the integrity of the investigation.
We need to wait until the special prosecutor has finished her investigation, reveals her evidence, and justifies her decision one way or the other. Anything more at this point is pure speculation, unnecessarily inflames tensions and passions, and doesn’t help anyone.
Sorry 89Hoo, I think we know more than enough to say mistakes were made and I think the investigation will bear that out. From a “witness” who says the cops told her they did not consider this “justifiable” to the outside groups asking questions not even asked much less answered, I think it is crystal clear that if a thorough investigation had been undertaken or had been ongoing, a lot of the anger, hostility and questions would not have happened. The outrage has been fed by the lack of an investigation, not in spite of one. That is also why there is a “special prosecutor” involved.
23 – well, Sandi, I wasn’t there, unlike you. So I’m going to have to wait to see what the investigation reveals. It may very well show criminal behavior on Zimmerman’s part, incompetence/improper behavior by the Sanford PD, a cover-up, or anything else. For all we know, it may show Martin being somewhat less than the innocent by-stander as he is being portrayed. But I’m not going to convict someone based on what I don’t know. And rushing to a conclusion without all the facts is the last thing we want to happen – too many innocent people have been ruined by such.
#21 – I’m sorry, gdad…what did I make up?
#23 – “The outrage has been fed by the lack of an investigation, not in spite of one.”
No, Sandi, the outrage has been fed by hateful comments from the usual gang of racists. Oh, and let’s not forget the media doing their best to mislead the public.
Sandi, just because YOU do not see the investigation being conducted doesn’t mean it is not happening. Remember, the special prosecutor ordered a media blackout to ensure the investigation is not compromised. Unless you, while you were down there witnessing this event, also happened to see where a special prosecutor was appointed and ordered not to do anything. That WOULD by unforgivable, but it probably is also not the case. But I could be wrong…I wasn’t there.
Since we have freedom of speech, you all are as entitled to your opinion and expressing it, as I am. I am not in Florida, marching in the streets nor likely to be on any jury, it is not adding to anything to discuss it on a blog.
And since you keep responding, I am not the only one discussing it.
19. 89Hoo – perhaps you missed the situation. Florida originally was indeed letting the matter drop. Zimmerman was released with no charges as the prosecutor said to let him go. Until the family came forth and began pushing for public outrage, nothing was being done. That os what the uproar is all about. Not did Zimmerman commit a crime or not; the outrage is about him not being arrested and a case made or not made. Florida’s law simply allows the man to say it was self defense and walk unless the State can show otherwise. The prosecutor chose not to try. Indeed, because of the outrage and because of the Justice department, the case is being reviewed; otherwise, Zimmerman was off the hook.
I do not have any idea of Zimmerman intent and actually do not care. However, I do care that an unarmed man was shot and killed while walking to his father’s friends home from the store and the State of Florida decided that a cursory investigation was all that was needed. I certainly would not want to visit Florida under these laws.
I am not saying that the special prosecutor is not investigating. I have no doubt this will be the most thoroughly investigated death in Sanford Florida history. That is not however, how this unfolded from the beginning and it is clear the investigation and the arrest that the police wanted to make were quashed by the CA which was the catalyst for this storm. I also do not deny that there are people on all “sides” with motives for inflaming, justifying or downplaying, as the case may be. If you think a blog discussion in Roanoke is so wrong, why did you all initiate it? Why are your comments appropriate and mine not? If you think an unarmed kid’s death is not a topic for discussion, what is? Other than the police making mistakes, Zimmerman’s story not being plausible and the obvious racial overtones which accompany any interaction I have not made any determination, nor advocated for one.