Wednesday open thread
You may be sure that when a man begins to call himself a “realist,” he is preparing to do something he is secretly ashamed of doing.
What are you plotting today?
May 2, 2012 - 6:02 AM
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May 2, 2012 - 6:02 AM
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Monday, May 20, 2013
THE ROANOKE TIMES
In an article from the NY Times about global warming that will probably be of interest to this crowd. It seems fairly even handed although I’ve read only the first page. Seems a bit more of a puff piece instead of hard data though.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/01/science/earth/clouds-effect-on-climate-change-is-last-bastion-for-dissenters.html?_r=1&ref=science
For decades, a small group of scientific dissenters has been trying to shoot holes in the prevailing science of climate change, offering one reason after another why the outlook simply must be wrong.
Over time, nearly every one of their arguments has been knocked down by accumulating evidence, and polls say 97 percent of working climate scientists now see global warming as a serious risk.
Yet in recent years, the climate change skeptics have seized on one last argument that cannot be so readily dismissed. Their theory is that clouds will save us. ….
What do you think? One lone nutter or a religious attack against women?
It’s on the internet so you know it must be true.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/05/01/america-is-doomed/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Lee_Peterson
…His radio show is cited by Republican groups as an example of a black Republican message, including denounciations of affirmative action as “reverse racism”. He is a member of Choose Black America, an organization of African Americans who oppose illegal immigration to the United States.[1] He is a member of the advisory board of Project 21, an African American conservative organization, and former board member of the California Christian Coalition..
…He has said women should not be allowed to vote:
Women cannot handle power. It’s not in them to handle power in the right way. [...] I think that one of the greatest mistakes America made was to allow women the opportunity to vote. We should’ve never turned this over to women. [...] It was a big mistake. [...] And these women are voting in the wrong people. They’re voting in people who are evil who agrees [sic] with them who’re gonna take us down this pathway of destruction. And this probably was the reason they didn’t allow women to vote when men were men. Because men in the good old days understood the nature of the woman. They were not afraid to deal with it. And they understood that, you let them take over, this is what would happen….
It is no surprise to me that the anarchists arrested for plotting to blow up an Ohio bridge attended the Cleveland “Occupy Wall Street” rally.
The OWS anarchists want to destroy the American way of life.
Obama wants to destroy the American way of life as well, not with bombs and strikes but with executive orders and circumventing Congress.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2137918/Cleveland-Bridge-bomb-plot-Occupy-anarchists-arrested-plotting-blow-Ohio-bridge.html#ixzz1tibkpFdNo me that
#3 – Kinda funny how Obama hasn’t asked the OWS loons to stop the violence, isn’t it John?
I wonder why that is?
3. and 4 – That is what Bashir Assad is saying as well.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
“The men had been associated with the anti-corporate Occupy Cleveland movement but don’t share its non-violent views, organizer Debbie Kline said.
“They were in no way representing or acting on behalf of Occupy Cleveland,”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/01/cleveland-bomb-plot_n_1467431.html
For those less enlightened who only skim the news, Occupy Wall Street is about holding corporations and politicians responsible. It is not about anarchy, violence and destruction. The pent up anger from the down and out and ignorant in this nation is looking for a place to act out and I am sorry that the OWS movement seems to be an outlet for some (because there are few active anarchist protests), but this nation is roiling. It is remarkable that the people who ignore the complicit Catholic Church or governments responsible for their crimes or sins while preaching to others of their’s, who blatantly ignore the TP/GOP legislation against women, the poor and the working class, their protection of wealth and corporate malfeasance, and manage to only see one political party as responsible for problems while missing any connection to the continuing inequities that create a lot of the anarchist sentiment can still rail as they do. You can only push people so far. I find it telling that you are so willing to indict OWS and liberals only. Not surprising, but telling indeed. The truth remains that if given enough rope, a conservative right winger and an anarchist will always hang themselves.
@3,4 When I read about this yesterday I simply knew one of you guys would make some comment. The article I read said the anarchists were upset the OWS people weren’t willing to be violent so they went off to do their own thing. So it’s a mistake on your part to associate these 5 guys with the OWS crowd.
Fortunately these knuckleheads were caught before they hurt themselves or anyone else.
One other interesting (to me at least) thing to consider is the FBI was put onto these guys because they’d infiltrated the OWS crowd. The FBI should concentrate their efforts on infiltrating board rooms if they want to stop people from ruining lives and destroying the country.
From USA Today: “What sets the alleged Ohio operation apart is its link to self-proclaimed anarchists — with no connections to international terrorist organizations — who believed that members of the ubiquitous Occupy protest movement had not gone far enough to express their displeasure with high-flying corporate America.”
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-05-01/bridge-bomb-plot/54661638/1
What you convince yourself of is your choice. It always is.
#7&8 – I wasn’t referring to the terrorists who tried to blow up the bridge.
Quite some spin flying on this one.
Sandi and Scott,
Do you condone the OWS crowd vandalizing banks with window braking, graffitti painting, and disrupting customer traffic along with vandalizing police cars as seen on Fox News last night? You probably missed that coverage.
Anyway, the OWS call for a May Day national strike and shut down was a big flop! Hardly a ripple in the economy. No one cares about the OWS anarchists any more. Too bad!
Not exactly the Left’s answer to the TEA Party is it?
The OWS anarchists haven’t as yet got anyone elected or changed the way “evil” big business controls the 99 percenters. Too bad! Even the Dems are avoiding that bunch of radical socialists.
So…just claiming an association doesn’t make it so?
My guess, and it is only a guess, as to why Obama has kept a low profile on the OWS protests and even the violence that the OWS itself has condemned and does not encourage, is that it would be very hard to look at Syria, China, Iran, Egypt or anywhere else people are protesting in the streets and have any credibility if you are seen as “cracking down” on your own “dissidents”. I also do not think any statement from Obama (or anyone else) is going to do any good because the anarchists and trouble makers are not really about the OWS movement of anti-corruption on Wall Street, in government, worker’s rights, or any other OWS issue. They are there for violence, destruction and paranoia inducing protest. So far the anarchist’s message works like a charm. They have discredited a movement with a real and honest message. I think OWS will have to fold on the public protests if this continues.
BTW, if asking criminals not to commit crimes can be as simple as going on national TV and doing so, I will join you in asking Obama to do so. Throw in rape and murders, after OWS of course, while you are at it sir.
Since this apparently needs to be repeated for some people. No John R, I do not condone people in the OWS crowds vandalizing, “graffitti painting”, and disrupting anything. Never have, never will.
OWS is not about anarchy or socialism. That is your pejorative.
I do not know that the left needs or wants an “answer” to the TEA Party. Two wrongs will not make a right, IMO.
When your actions are working against that association in question, then no, “claiming an association doesn’t make it so” and when you are working lock, stock and barrel with that association, denying an association also doesn’t make it so.
Reporters Beaten by Mob of Blacks and Their Newspaper Stayed Silent.
How is this for the Roanoke times sister paper.
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/uncategorized/reporters-beaten-by-mob-of-blacks-and-their-newspaper-stayed-silent.html
Reports for the virginia Pilot beaten bad by black mob and paper stays silent…
Talk about hypocritcal.
I think we will start to see the CPUSA/Dem Party begin to distance itself as much as possible from the OWS…don’t want to get a bad reputation you know. Guilt by association and all that. It’s kind of cute and time-honored to rail against The Man, and yell Workers of the World Unite! and Down With Whitey! on the street corner, it’s another thing entirely to talk about blowing things up. A bridge to far, if you will.
They had their reasons Herb:
http://hamptonroads.com/2012/05/beating-church-and-brambleton
“In this case, editors hesitated to assign a story about their own employees. Would it seem like the paper treated its employees differently from other crime victims?”
It is actually a great commentary.
What do people expect when you have decades of herding people like they were animals into a pen called “the housing projects”? Seriously, what do you expect when people are treated like garbage?
#13 – “I think OWS will have to fold on the public protests if this continues.”
I hope they don’t! It always brightens up my day to see them loitering on Elm and Williamson, thinking they are actually making a difference!
15 – heh, yes, Sandi.
@11 John R., you ask, “Do you condone the OWS crowd vandalizing banks with window braking, graffitti painting, and disrupting customer traffic along with vandalizing police cars as seen on Fox News last night? You probably missed that coverage.”?
You’re right, I did miss it, in part because I don’t watch commercial television.
But to answer your question, I’m torn. I don’t, in general, advocate doing those types of things but I’m not blind to the fact destruction is done by corporations also. The main differences seems to be, the vandalization was done overtly and by individuals directly.
I’m sure it’s not the best examples but pollution is a form of vandalism so one can look at the pollution done by that place in Radford, the munitions plant as a form of vandalism. Mountain top removal mining is a form of vandalism with restitution done by replanting trees, etc. Throwing people out of their homes because they’ve lost a job and can’t afford the mortgage (at least temporarily) is a form of destruction.
There are many such examples.
I know there will be arguments about who owns the property, etc. but I’d probably have to disagree. I’ve said it before, conservatives care about property, while liberals care about people.
What I am unequivocally against is harming people. When I look at the vandalism described, I see it as a harm against the people who created the windows and police cars, etc. Just as I see the harm against the people who want to fish in the New River by the pollution from the munitions plant.
Sometimes the benefit outweighs the harm. Sometimes the harm is necessary. Sometimes it’s effective. Sometimes it’s easy to see who’s doing it and sometimes the people doing it are hidden from view.
But since you asked me, I get to ask you. Do you condone banks throwing people out of their homes? Do you condone a health care system based on markets that leave people with no recourse but the emergency room and charity care? Do you condone underfunding our public schools so our children’s main chance at an education is hampered?
11. John R – What you are telling me is the GOP has taken a cue from Richard Nixon and are using plants to try and make the protesters look bad. You have no proof who the vandals are.
#21 You have many good points as to the violence that corporations can do to the earth and gets away with it, like Mt. top removal. But getting back to May Day I got many photos from friends around the county. One of them had folks with fishing line with donuts on the end of them (for the cops). One has to keep a sense of humor in the face of absolute absurdity of those on power.
@23 Bill, you know, those guys shouldn’t be teasing the cops. Besides the fact, they have a hard enough job, we should be trying to win the cops over to our side. We should help them understand their role in society is, besides immediate emergency assistance, defenders of power. That is, they’re paid to keep the 99% away from the 1%. I’m sure many don’t realize that because they don’t bother to think about it.
Instead, we should be helping them understand they have the power to say ‘no’ to the 1%. If the cops EVER turn on the capitalist class, there will be REAL change for the better.
You should read this link:
http://anticap.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/the-may-day-after/
…Last October, I addressed the issue of specific demands by quoting Saint Francis of Assisi: “Start by doing what’s necessary; then do what’s possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible.” One way of looking at yesterday’s activities across the country is, OWS violated St. Francis’s rule. It promised the impossible (a general strike) and therefore, in doing what was possible (getting a few thousand people into the streets in New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, and elsewhere), it didn’t do what was necessary (to build a movement that effectively challenges the causes and consequences of the Second Great Depression in the United States).
That’s the hard-headed critique. But it is also the case, from a more generous perspective, that the OWS movement did succeed in at least beginning to recognize the relevance of and allying itself with the history of the workers’ movement and the complex relationships among the travails of immigrant workers, the problem of student debt and unemployment, the role of financial institutions in creating the current mess, and the demand for economic justice.
Still, it’s not enough to announce those issues and expect that, spontaneously, large masses of people would come together and engage in a general strike. Not by a long shot. Not in the current conjuncture. And not without lots of difficult and patient organizing…
Just had an interesting thought as I’m reviewing my will & powers of attorney, etc.
Admittedly, this is very unlikely but since the powers of attorney allow someone else to act as if they are me, can my attorney then VOTE on my behalf??
This really caught my eye.
GOP hypocrisy on bin Laden showcases a discredited party.
It’s in the Washington Post today if you want to read further, guess it will be on Fox News tonight.
#24 – “That is, they’re paid to keep the 99% away from the 1%.”
Really, Scott? Really? Do you honestly believe that?
I’m at a loss for words…
@27 Michael, yes that is correct.
Heard something interesting tonight. My wife met someone who is now home-schooling their child because their family are non-believers. Turns out their child was being bullied and told she was going to go to hell if she wasn’t a believer. This is grade school BTW. Another part that flips me out is this occurred at a Montessori school.
Somebody help me understand why water guns are being banned at the GOP convention but concealed hand guns are OK.
http://news.yahoo.com/water-guns-banned-handguns-allowed-gop-convention-202223900–abc-news-politics.html
LOL Scott, my son came home in tears in first grade because his “best friend” told him that he and our family were “going to hell” because we did not “go to church”. Elementary school is the first chance little parrots get to try out their own indoctrination. Oddly, the child remained “best friends” with my son for years.
Scott M….banks throwing people out of their homes?
There is NO WAY a bank can throw somebody out of their home…so it must be the people do not OWN the home and therefore NOT THEIRS.
Public schools are underfunded… is there a nation around that spends more on public education on the state fed and local level than the USA?
In many cases public schools underperform and all too often funding is blown
on staffing, benefits and programs with marginal benefit to the student.
@32 BUD, I shouldn’t get all technical but allow me to for just a minute. Technically, yes, the individual owns the home. But, they have put it up as collateral against a loan. Technically, the bank does NOT own the home but is given the right to take it from the owners if loan repayments aren’t made. So yes, the banks DO throw people out of the homes the person owns.
You say, “In many cases public schools underperform and all too often funding is blown on staffing, benefits and programs with marginal benefit to the student.” Because having staff at the schools to do the teaching doesn’t benefit the students….I need a sarcasm font.
What you meant to say was ‘unnecessary staffing’. Although that is what you meant to say, what you actual mean is ‘staffing whose duty I don’t understand as providing much benefit to the student’. This is known as an argument from ignorance.