Discuss the first presidential debate
President Barack Obama and Mitt Romney faced off in their first debate on Wednesday night. Who won? What will it mean for the race going forward? What points did the candidate make that resonated with you?
The Roanoke Times editorial board discussed the debate live with readers, but there is still plenty to say and consider. Watch it again below or jump to the comments and wade into the discussion.
October 4, 2012 - 12:20 AM
Obama lost big tonight. But Obama will win big in November. As I said on Twitter, Romney plays checkers while Obama plays chess. Yes, Romney won tonight. But Romney still has terrible problems with women, seniors, minorities and others. Obama’s post debate political ads will pound Romney. Obama’s next debate will be different. And Rule #1 of politics says, the most likable candidate with the most money wins elections. Liberals and Obama supporters just need to take a deep breath and show up on Election Day.
Sandi, in reference to your last post in the live thread, it would appear that some (most) who watched the debate didn’t see it the same way.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/10/03/mitt_romney_beats_barack_obama_first_debate_is_a_decisive_victory_for_republican_challenger.html
Obama seemed out of touch. Even his own hometown newspaper described him as being the “the guy at the meeting who was surreptitiously checking his e-mail.” In the meantime, Romney seemed polished and passionate. He seemed interested and had answers, supported by facts on every issue. He not only told Obama he was wrong on many policies, but more importantly told him WHY he was wrong. In response Obama reverted to the tired old Democratic meme about Bush and policies of the past. It was obvious that Obama realized he had lost when he brought up Bin Laden as his success in a DOMESTIC POLICY debate.
I never thought I’d actually say this, but in the debate last night, Romney came off as by far being the more likable (in addition to more informed) of the two. I still don’t think it was the blowout that some are calling it, and I really appreciate the civil demeanor maintained throughout, but at the end of the day, Romney seemed more Presidential than Obama.
All the talk this morning is about who won the debate. If you’re grading it on style, then Romney was the winner. Obama took too long to gather his thoughts and missed several opportunities to get his point across. Romney is a fast-talker. It was like listening to a French poodle and a Bulldog bark. There were too many interruptions, too many long answers and they both overran Jim Lehrer resulting in no time left to answer the last section of questions the American people needed to hear. I would have liked to have seen Obama come out with smoking guns but that didn’t happen. I would have liked to have a clearer idea of what Romney plans to do if elected to bring prosperity to the American people but that didn’t happen either. Trillions of dollars in cuts and trillions of dollars in spending means nothing to me. Zero plus zero equals zero. It was all smoke and mirrors and I’m left this morning in the same position I was in before the debate. Exactly WHAT is your plan, Mitt??
In the first debate, Romney didn’t exactly look like Reagan but Obama sure looked like Carter!
Obama seemed unprepared. What’s with this Obama kept looking at his feet while Romney talked? Romney on the other hand looked at Obama as Obama talked.
Strange body language!
I watched about 29 mins of the debate. A few observations:
Obama was dull, uninspiring and lathargic. While his message was ok, he didn’t deliver it well.
Romney was energetic, almost to the point of being giddy sounding. He won in enthusiasm and tone.
As to message…Romney was definitely playing to moderates and independents. I think he made commitments that he (like all politicians) has absolutely no was of keeping.
In short, dull debate with little substance or form.
Obama wasn’t looking at his feet. He was writing down all the lies Romney was telling. No wonder he never had time to look at Romney while Romney was talking.
One area that Obama really needed to be clearer about is this: Romney IS proposing a 20 percent, across-the-board reduction in tax rates. That WILL cost $5 trillion, and there is simply no way to make that up through ending deductions and closing loopholes that only impact the wealthy.
And even if there was, if the wealthy are going to end up paying the same amount of taxes, as Romney repeatedly claimed last night, how could there possibly be an economic boost from his tax “cut”?
I think once the glow fades, this will end up being the key line of the night from Obama:
“He says he will close deductions and loopholes for his tax plan: we do not know the details. He says that he is going to replace Dodd-Frank, Wall Street reform, but we do not know exactly which ones — he will not tell us. He now says he will replace Obamacare and ensure all the good things and it will be in there and you do not have to worry. At some point the American people have to ask themselves, is the reason Governor Romney is keeping all of these plans to replace secret because they are too good?”
Sure Romney won, he was selling recreated out of whole cloth, fantasy. He has a NEW fantasy tax plan, he will cut taxes and not raise the deficit, he will fund all sorts of things and not raise the deficit, he will get the same revenue from the wealthy by giving them tax cuts, he will help the middle class by not helping the middle class and he will not stop student loans, he will restore the 716 billion to Medicare as he repeals but replaces “Obamacare” and he will lower the deficit and cut the debt! Fantasy, as pure and as well delivered as PT Barnum could ever dream. Elmer Gantry lives!
Romney was literally a wind up toy wound too tightly. He was bursting with factoids and studies and “stuff he learned” and has created. He ignored the moderator and the questions to give his speeches. He was positively frightening. Do not accuse liberals of falling for Obama’s promises ever again, you are running Santa Claus!
Romney destroyed Obama in last night’s debate. Best line from Romney to Obama, “I’ve been in business for 25 years and I didn’t understand a thing you just said.”
Without a teleprompter, Obama says a lot, but really says nothing. The meltdown on MSNBC after the debate was very entertaining.
One lesson I’m sure President Obama learned last night was he probably shouldn’t have used John Kerry for a debate coach.
The Boston Globe published a story earlier this week explaining how Romney turned around his gubernatorial campaign to win in Massachusetts in 2002. He became more aggressive in debates and with negative ads and started taking more shots at his opponent personally rather than relying on surrogates. I think we saw some of that same strategy last night.
http://articles.boston.com/2012-10-02/politics/34209618_1_mitt-romney-romney-adviser-republican-gubernatorial-nominee
“I’ve been in business for 25 years and I didn’t understand a thing you just said.”
Hilarious.
From what i’m reading, Romney most certainly won on aggressiveness, which is what the challenger has to do; he won on denying he’s in favor of some of what he’s been campaigning on all along; and he won on demonstrable lies. Obama has to really go after the guy next time.
I’m still going to vote for Obama, but he got took to the woodshed last night.
Hopefully, Obama was playing a little rope-a-dope and will come out swinging in the next one.
11. Point out one personal attack from Romney…..just one.
And to be fair, President Obama did not lob any personal attacks at Mitt Romney either. Both men were actually very cordial to each other.
Romney came across as energetic and prepared, Obama seemed angry and aloof. Clearly, Obama does not like debating. He appeared more as a wonkish professor, lecturing the people. While Romney looked at Obama, Obama made constant eye contact with the floor. Seeing Obama off teleprompter shows the real man.
In the end, people cannot afford 4 more years of Obama’s wrecking the economy and promoting Socialism.
That is why I think Romney will win in November.
the stumbling, bumbling, part time whitehouse dummy was shown the door last night!
6 – nice spin there…you know that look on a child’s face when he’s caught with his hand in the cookie jar? That’s how Obama looked last night.
And I’m betting you didn’t care too much about the specifics of Obama’s “hope and change” platitudes four years ago.
Up to now, the media has covered for Obama. He has not had to face tough questions and criticism of his policies. He’s not used to it – and that was evident in his performance last night.
For once, I’m thankful that the media has coddled him over the years. It has served to show the sharp contrast between the polished, produced, media-created “everything to everyone” candidate that they have promoted over the years…and the stripped-down, empty suit that many of us knew he really was four years ago.
I think the right wingers watch more MSNBC than liberals. If you like fantasy politics, Romney is your man. There is no other way to look at it. I cannot believe that the right wing here has chided me so often over Obama’s lack of substance, Obama’s lack of a plan, Obama’s lack of details, Obama’s lack of solutions and then is head over heels for a man offering fantasy, deception and tricks that will “do” nothing. It is laughable, except it is too important to be laughed at.
Fact Check called him a “serial exaggerator”. Yes, that is surely the winning argument.
No, Radmacher…obama was looking down in shame and was being schooled …and that is what obama looked like…a little boy…It was really interesting when obama got that involuntary cheek spasm…. He was exploding inside and the whole world saw it…Your messiah got his butt spanked by a much more capable man. ALSO….EVERYONE must see the Movie `2016`..IT IS A MUST SEE !!!!!
You can keep on claiming that Obama was “the loser” but it is NOT presidential to be so aggressive, forceful and dishonest all in one evening as Romney was. Romney will not gain from his performance. He has only opened up new questions, new lines of controversy and new policies he can never implement or make work. Romney won, like McCain won, for naught.
13. gdad, Romney answered each one of Obama’s criticisms with at least 3 counterpoints for each one. Romney was concise and provided detail. The President actually talked 4 minutes longer than Romney during the debate, but spoke in generalities and circles. If I’m not mistaken, the next debate will concern foreign policy. Obama does not come out of the gate very strong on that topic.
22. Sandy if Romney was dishonest as you claim, why didn’t Obama call him on it? What you call aggression I see as Passion. Obama showed zero passion last night. He appeared as if he wanted to be anywhere but Denver last night.
20. “I think the right wingers watch more MSNBC than liberals. If you like fantasy politics,….”
Actually Sandi, Fantasy politics is why I do sometimes watch MSNBC. I knew it would be an especially interesting spectacle after last night’s debate. Maddow seemed to be in shock, Matthews eyes were red and watery and it looked like Ed Shultz and Al Sharpton were going to have a stroke.
I think it is safe to say that Obama did not present himself as we’ll as he did when he was a candidate for president. He clearly was off of his normal eloquent and capable speaking manner.
That being said, Romney came off as being a starry eyed candidate with all of these grandiose promises and commitments that, I believe, he has absolutely no way of delivering.
I firmly believe that every new president has (and moderators, please forgive my characterization of this, but I don’t think there is any other way to put it) an “oh sh*t” moment when they sit behind the desk right after the inauguration.
Reality hits that they now have to work with petulant congressmen and senators on both sides to try to get anything done. All the promises made during the campaign go right out the window.
Until we can get people in Congress that legitimately want to solve problems and are not afraid of being one termers, nothing is going to be accomplished because special interests and lobbyists keeping their hands and the hip pockets of those that are supposed to serve the needs of the public.
It makes no difference if Obama was looking down to make notes or not, on TV it looked like he was not paying attention and just wanted the debate to end.
It was obvious that Obama was playing prevent defense trying not to make a mistake and just sitting on a lead. The result has been he just lost his lead and the whole world was watching.
On the foreign policy debate, Romney has the advantage now that Obama’s Middle East policy has come unravelled since Benghazi and now that al Qaeda has made a terrorist attack on America killing Americans and Obama did not provide adequate security.
No more dancing on Bin Laden’s grave and singing “al Qaeda is on the run” for Obama!
Both candidates for sure pressed the honesty virtue last night. But I can tell you for a fact that Obama lied straight up when he said “I cut taxes on small businesses 18 times!”.
I own a small business and you would think that at least one of these 18 tax cuts would apply to me…….nary a one ever made it to my balance sheet. The reason? They don’t and have never existed.
@27 JohnR…
If a failure to provide proper security is a prerequisite for defeat if a sitting president, then how do you explain W’s re-election in 2004 after his failure to keep the country secure on 9/11?
Your analogy just doesn’t square other than head bobble at its best.
JimW…your characterization of MSNBC is spot on for last night. Clearly, all were in shock at Obama’s failure to deliver; however, that being said, I don’t look for the same mistake twice. Romney and foreign policy are not two things that have mixed particularly well over the course of his campaign. As I said earlier, I think they all have that OS moment once the inauguration OS over and it happens with foreign policy as much as it does with domestic policy.
“The second topic, which is you said you get a deduction for getting a plant overseas. Look, I’ve been in business for 25 years. I have no idea what you’re talking about. I maybe need to get a new accountant.” Perhaps Romney should – because Obama was right and he was wrong. You do get a deduction for moving a plant overseas. Romney certainly knows that. He’s moved enough plants overseas, after all.
http://www.politifact.com/rhode-island/statements/2010/nov/21/sheldon-whitehouse/whitehouse-says-companies-get-tax-break-moving-job/
“He clearly was off of his normal eloquent and capable speaking manner.”
IOW, he was off his trusty teleprompter and David Axelrod-penned speeches. Without them, Obama is a different person. That became more evident than ever last night…though many of us have known that all along.
@28 Christian posted this during the debate. Take a look and see if your business qualified for any of these tax cuts.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/07/barack-obama/barack-obama-claims-credit-least-16-tax-cuts-small/
26. Will, I disagree with your characterization of Romney but the rest of your post was right on.
The liberal Roanoke Times seems to be running for cover!
#26 – “That being said, Romney came off as being a starry eyed candidate with all of these grandiose promises and commitments that, I believe, he has absolutely no way of delivering.”
Sort of like Obama back when he was campaigning, right Will?
@28 NU Scott…
Perhaps you should research a little…
From the 2009 stimulus, the Affordable Care Act, and other legislation:
• A new small-business health care tax credit.
• A tax credit for hiring unemployed workers in 2010.
• Temporary extension of bonus depreciation tax incentives to support new investment.
• 75 percent exclusion of small-business capital gains, for stock acquired in 2009 and 2010.
• Temporary expansion of limits on small-business expensing.
• Five-year carryback of net operating losses, available through fall 2009.
• Reduction of the built-in gains holding period for small businesses to seven years, from 10, in 2009 and 2010.
• Temporary small-business estimated tax payment relief.
Tax provisions in the 2010 Small Business Jobs Act (both The Agenda and the I.R.S. have published summaries):
• 100 percent exclusion of small-business capital gains, for stock acquired in late 2010 and 2011.
• A further increase to the expensing limit to $500,000 for 2011 (in 2012, the limit falls to $139,000).
• A further extension of 50 percent bonus depreciation through 2010.
• A new deduction for health care expenses for the self-employed in 2010.
• Tax relief and simplification for cellphone deductions.
• An increase in the deduction for entrepreneurs’ start-up expenses in 2010.
• A five-year carry-back of general business credits in 2010.
• Lower penalties for failing to report listed (that is, abusive) tax shelters.
Since then, the president has added two more tax cuts to the list, according to a Small Business Administration spokeswoman, who supplied an update:
• Increasing bonus depreciation to 100 percent for 2011 (from the Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization and Job Creation Act of 2010, the compromise law that keeps the Bush income tax cuts in place through this year; for 2012, bonus depreciation falls to 50 percent and then expires).
• Tax credits for hiring veterans, ranging from $2,400 to $9,600 (from the Veterans Opportunity to Work to Hire Heroes Act of 2011).
If you we’re unable to manage your business in such a way as to take advantage of those…I’m not sure why that’s Obama’s fault.
“Virtually every time Mr. Romney spoke, he misrepresented the platform on which he and Paul Ryan are actually running. The most prominent example, taking up the first half-hour of the debate, was on taxes. Mr. Romney claimed, against considerable evidence, that he had no intention of cutting taxes on the rich or enacting a tax cut that would increase the deficit.”
There’s no question about this. The man on the podium acted MUCH more moderate than the one on the campaign trail.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/04/opinion/an-unhelpful-presidential-debate.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper
29…Will, I do believe that Obama will try to come out swinging in the next debate. I am also sure that Romney is anticipating that as well.
This is simply precious……
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/gores-blames-altitude-obamas-debate-woes_653613.html
I’m really looking forward to Obama trying to defend his horrible foreign policy.
@35 Michael…
I think I affirmed that in my previous post but thanks for trying to clarify a point already clearly made.
@38 JimW…
Without a doubt, both sides will be prepared. I think the second debate will be more “entertaining” if you will than what last night’s was.
@34…Thomas
How so? They’ve provided a forum on which we can dissect the debate? I’m certainly not running for cover as I have nothing to run from…but I don’t speak for the RT. they are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves.
@39…JimW
That’s pretty lame…I’ll have to agree with you on that.
If this were a football game, I’d be kicking Obama’s tail hard in practice starting today. He disappointed me to say the least.
@40…Micheal
By your standards perhaps.
So apparently Romney’s best lines of the night were lies and this makes you happy because? Oh of course, your lies are better than ours. Silly me.
Bain Capital actually helped corps move overseas and you think a man “in business 25 years” did not know there was a tax deduction for the expenses of that move? Really?
Gee it is gratifying to see how you all have changed your votes after the debate. I have no idea why Obama let Romney skate on lie after lie and exaggeration after exaggeration, but the fact remains that is what Romney did.
You all have spent 4 years complaining of broken promises and the failed policies of Obama, and now you cannot wait to vote for Romney who is literally lying (or seriously deranged) on virtually every subject. He cannot do what he says on any of it. Makes perfect sense.
41…Will, yes, after last night Obama will be on a mission.
39 – As is this:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/ken-shepherd/2012/10/04/msnbcs-ed-schultz-pulls-race-card-explain-weak-obama-debate-performa-0
I wondered how long it would be before that angle was played…didn’t take long.
I don’t blame Obama, having to debate a fantasy and made up points is hardly worthy of anyone’s time and certainly not any respect. He should have borrowed Reagan’s line, “There you go again”, on a couple of the whoppers at least.
Romney showed what he is made of and it is ugly. You vote for him, as you were all going to do all along, but do not think that the jabs and barbs about his fantasy plans will go unnoticed from the people who have had to listen to you whine about Obama for 4 years.
With lies and fantasy the size he was cranking out, this will be fun.
From New York Magazine -Jonathan Chait
“Romney won the debate in no small part because he adopted a policy of simply lying about his policies. Probably the best way to understand Obama’s listless performance is that he was prepared to debate the claims Romney has been making for the entire campaign, and Romney switched up and started making different and utterly bogus ones.
From The Daily Beast: “Romney Won and the Truth Lost” by Michelle Goldberg
From Mediaite: “Rocky Mountain Lie: Mitt Romney Lost Debate In The Only Way That Doesn’t Matter At All” by Tommy Christopher
From the Rolling Stone: “The First Debate: Mitt Romney’s Five Biggest Lies
The truth behind that $5 trillion tax cut, pre-existing conditions and more” by Tim Dickinson
From San Francisco Chronicle: “Debate check: Lies and half-truths outed” by
Drew Joseph, David R. Baker and Joe Garofoli
Yeah, they’re all just sore losers, nothing to see here. You are us in 2008 and after all the guff, that is the bottom line. You will soon find, winning isn’t everything.
If you have seen a 2012 Teleprompter(Model#2344-BO) and a team of speechwriters, please contact the White House, CNN, or MSNBC for instructions.
#45 – My favorite so far, ToR, is Al Gore blaming the altitude. Watching the Libs come up with excuses for Obama’s poor performance is great fun!
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/gores-blames-altitude-obamas-debate-woes_653613.html
46…Yep, liberal media calling Romney a liar carries a lot of credibility with me……NOT.
45….Yes, MSNBC is the best sit com on television after the Big Bang Theory.
48 – Yes, I saw that in JimW’s #39, and earlier today as well. Coming from a charlatan like Gore, it’s no surprise. The only real surprise, is that he didn’t find a way to tie MMGW into it!
Par for the course – blame anyone and/or anything except Obama himself. That’s been the liberal MO for the last 4 years, why should it change now?
Their fantasy, made-up candidate is being exposed for what he really is – without his teleprompter and his pre-prepared speeches/talking points, merely an empty suit.
In June I was camping near Denver at over 13,000 feet altitude with my brother. I had no problem debating my brother on the attributes of Jack Daniels vs. Johnny Walker. So Obama should have had no problem debating Romney at 5,280 feet.
OK, let’s see what the right wing pundits are saying?
“Now fluency is not the same as perfect honesty: Romney had his share of bogus lines (the promise to cut the deficit by cutting funding for PBS was the stand-out) and dubious arguments (the distinctions he drew between Romneycare and Obamacare were technically true but frequently misleading) and frank evasions of important issues (his various pivots to the center, tellingly, didn’t include saying anything about how to help the uninsured). ~Ross Douthat
That will have to do, I do not visit or scour right wing media.
Maybe the altitude problem made Obama feel less than snappy, but what made Romney lie? Any news on that yet?
Speaking of “fantasy” and “made up” in regards to Obama, in the same thread as Romney’s debate performance is pretty funny. You obviously have nothing against fantasy or made up plans when it is your candidate. Why the double standard.
Maybe YOU can explain Romney’s dishonesty?
@53 @54 – Maybe it’s the same thing as the President?
54 – Back at you…Obama sure made up a lot of stuff 4 years ago to get elected, didn’t he? Liberals, including Nancy Pelosi, simply dismissed them as “campaign promises” that he shouldn’t have been expected to keep. Remember that?
So why the double standard, indeed…
54….Obama has a track record of “Fantasy and Made Up Plans.” If re-elected, you know without a doubt that you will get more of the same. I am voting to give Romney a chance. If he turns out to be the empty suit that Obama is, then he should not get a second term.
#6 Mr. Radmacher, how many straws left in your hand after that grab?
Not sure about you, but in a live debate viewed by 60 million for the presidency…..if I could write down lies I might take the occasion to point them out.
Today, back on the stump, with canned speeches (written by others) and his security (teleprompter) blanket….with no opponent in front of him & no questions or follow-ups….the great orator returns.
In short, when the meat was on the table, Obama was exposed as an empty suit.
As to the tax cuts & deficits/revenue, etc. Romney made it quite clear several times that; A. after (reduced) credits & deductions, remaining lower tax rates will encourage marginal growth & B. such marginal growth will result in expanding the tax base and thus tax revenues.
Macro 101, tax revenues are equal to tax base X tax rate. The key to reducing our deficit & debt is to increase economic growth & investment, resulting in jobs & multiplier affect.
Tax rates & codes can be tinkered with, but the key is growth & expansion of the tax base.
#30 Mr. Radmacher, you are (IMO) purposely confusing standard business cost deductions, with some (non-existent) specific deduction for sending business overseas.
Moving costs are deductible, from A to B (or C).
It never fails, it is hell when we do it and heaven when you do it. Un-be-lievable! Principles, schminciples…Thanks for playing.
It was clear last night who is intelligent and who is in over their head. Obama is not used to having to defend himself, as the media coddles him and defends his every move. He also missed his teleprompter. Never has the Roanoke Times editiorial board criticized a move by Obama, or questioned any of his broken promises.
Aren’t all plans “made up?” If you plan to do something that hasn’t been done yet… aren’t you just making up an idea of something that you want to do?
Reading the meltdown here has been entertaining today.
It is clear who suddenly thinks lies don’t matter.
Romney thinks it is so awful how Obama lied to become President that he has decided to do do the same.
Romney thinks it is so awful how Obama promised things he could not deliver so he has decided to do the same.
Romney thinks Obama’s tax plans are so awful, he got himself an awful tax plan too.
Romney thinks Obama’s foreign policy is all wrong, so his is going to be all wrong too.
Romney thinks Obama’s immigration policy is so wrong, he is going to keep it.
Romney thinks Obama’s energy policy is so wrong, he is going to keep i.
Romney thinks Obama’s jobs plan is so awful, he is going to keep it.
I think they were separated at birth.
Funny, isn’t it, how instead of admitting Obama blew it last night, it’s now “LIES! LIES! LIES! IT’S ALL LIES!”
I’m seriously concerned about the mental health of some when they find out Obama is out of a job next month.
And just wait till Paul Ryan puts a beatdown on Joe Biden!!!
Obama thought the Bush tax cuts were so wrong, he still kept them.
Obama thought keeping Gitmo open was so wrong, he still kept it open.
Obama thought Bush’s debt increase was “unpatriotic”, yet he took it even further.
I could go on…but what’s the use?
Obama got schooled last night. Plain and simple. He was exposed as the empty suit many of us knew he was 4 years ago. Even a liberal PBS moderator couldn’t save his butt last night. And watching the liberal meltdown today is priceless! Cue up BB King…because “The Thrill is Gone”!
Thank God we don’t have another John McCain running this time. I was afraid Romney would be McCain round two…but last night showed that will definitely not be the case!
64..Actually, one has failed at those things, the other wants a chance at it.
58 – “Today, back on the stump, with canned speeches (written by others) and his security (teleprompter) blanket….with no opponent in front of him & no questions or follow-ups….the great orator returns.
In short, when the meat was on the table, Obama was exposed as an empty suit.”
And there you have it folks…the amazing multiple Obamas! Which one will show up next? Depends on the audience and the situation.
When obama has a plan for anything let us know…Middle East ablaze…Killed tens of thousands of jobs by declining the Keystone pipeline…Spent our $$$ for solyndra so that he could reap the `remainder` in the form of campaign donations…Jobs ??? Who are you kidding….8.1 % …who was it that said he would have the unemployment #`s to 5.4% in 3 years ? Oh, that was obama…Jobs ? What a joke…In case you haven`t figured it out saunders, obamas ideology is BIG GOVERNMENT…which means he doesn`t want any jobs..Duh ! LETS ALL SIT BACK AND CONTINUE TO WATCH THE LEFT COLLAPSE.
The leftist policies have been failing the American people for years…Its all coming to a head for them…obama is sucessfully destroying the Democratic party and none of them can even see it .
Well Mr. Doto…
I’m not sure what rock you’ve been living under for the past 50 years or so but the real world has experienced the ups and downs of both parties.
Most recently, we’ve had to endure the failed policy of the repeal of the Glass-Stegall Act of 1934 by a Republican Controlled Congress of 1999. It seems that every time the Republicans are in office, we’re left with a mess to clean up in the following term after they are out of office. Can anyone say Savings & Loan debacle of the late 1980′s?
Please don’t paint your side as being all roses because simply put, it just ain’t so. I know the Democrats have their warts and I’m not afraid to point them out.
As we have been trying to help you see for years now in some cases, being “beaten” with lies is not the same as being defeated with the truth. If Romney, the devout Mormon could have won with the truth, or even some version of it, he would have done so no doubt, he is a person who appears to believe honesty is important. That Obama chose to lie on so many important points mattered to you all and now that Romney has done so, it has completely become acceptable. The lies and the hypocrisy are literally too much to take from people who have been preaching at me since 2008!
If Romney had straight up told the truth and beat Obama fair and square that would be a whole other story. Romney made that choice and you will have to live with your hypocrisy. So stop talking about Obama’s failures when Romney is hot on his heels.
TheOtherRick….
So you’re saying that Obama is the only president and/or candidate to use speech writers and prompters?
Have you been living under the same rock as Mr. Doto?
@51,
Who won?
74 – No…that’s not what I’m saying, at all. Not sure where you got that notion…
Of course all candidates and Presidents use the teleprompter and prepared speeches. I’ve never claimed otherwise. However – compared to previous Presidents and most other candidates, it’s much more obvious when Obama is on, or off, the prompter. He sounds like two completely different people.
Anyone who denies this, and the fact that Obama alters his speech patterns depending on the demographics of certain audiences…would be the one who resides under said rock.
I’m confused. Does the debate winner have to compete on November 6 or is he already the winner of the US Presidency, i.e., are we still going to have an election 6 November? I assume Romney’s bonehead statement on the 47% is now negated. Although 48.01% is nearly equal to his number who all knows that 48.01% of 211,492,000 individuals aged 15 or higher earn $25000 or less in a year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States). These people still get to vote, right? I don’t think they lost that privilege last night.
#51 & #75…..nobody won. The event was called for lack of interest.
Beefeaters with real (quinine) tonic water & fresh lime.
(But, I have not had one for 30+ years now). As James Dickey said many years ago, we were great friends for years but I had to say good-bye.
75…my brother did…lol
“Maybe YOU can explain Romney’s dishonesty?”
I’ll take that task, just as soon as YOU explain OBAMA’s dishonesty.
Looks like the dems are taking it pretty hard. I guess this is just more of that tolerance they’re famous for.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/04/14220157-pa-student-who-wore-romney-shirt-teacher-told-me-to-get-out-of-the-classroom?lite&ocid=vt_fbmsn
Obama is as capable as Romney without a teleprompter, as he proved quite nicely when he handed Republicans their hats at their retreat in Baltimore in 2010:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5vOMIN673A&feature=relmfu
Oddly enough, they haven’t invited him back.
Many in the middle class don’t realize that Obama is refering to them as the Medicaid class, eventually forcing them to become HIS Medicaid Nation.
“The dems” did that Chuck #81? Could you maybe cast a wider net with your insults? And FYI, it is actually liberals who are known for tolerance, plenty of Dems are as redneck, backwoods, bigoted as the right wing.
The debates on TV viewed by 50M people are purely a visual event! It doesn’t matter what was actually said but how each appeared and acted.
Who looked in command, not what was said. Who could rattle off facts, right or wrong. Who had the right body and eye movements. And who didn’t stumble with an obvious mistake, that is the proverbial “gaff”.
This round went to Romney.
If the next round goes to Romney, the game is over. This is the age of TV where appearance is everything.
#84 – “And FYI, it is actually liberals who are known for tolerance…”
Yep, tolerance is indeed the face of Libs…unless you disagree with them, then the claws come out.
#85 – Actually, John, the next round is for the VP slot.
No doubt the left is already writing their excuses for Ryan making Biden look like a fool.
Then again, Joe does a pretty good job of doing it to himself and doesn’t need help from anyone.
@ Dan #82
“82.Obama is as capable as Romney without a teleprompter, as he proved quite nicely when he handed Republicans their hats at their retreat in Baltimore in 2010:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5vOMIN673A&feature=relmfu
Oddly enough, they haven’t invited him back”
It might be because there were a *lot* more Republicans just a few months after the President ‘handed them their hats’, and they probably didn’t have enough seats left in the room to bring him back.
The truth of the matter is the dems are in panic mode.
The reason Obama did not bring up his attack mode lies is he knew Romney would knock them back in his face….negating his M.O. of such ads, 2-1, in swing states.
The panic mode is not just from the clobbering of last night, but the realization that regardless of any “get tough” facade by Obama in the next debate, with the lies & cover-ups of this administration in the past three weeks, the necessity from his failed foreign policies, he will fare no better in the next.
As to the Ryan/Biden debate. Really?
I take nothing for granted, but this election has turned. Or maybe it’s the altitude.
Sorry The Other Rick…my comment about the use of teleprompters should have been focused on Jim Lucas.
My apologies!
Let’s try that again. Last night’s debate. Spike and Mitt.
Obama’s greatest failure was he failed to delivery the knock out blow in his closing statement. That should have been rehearsed and scripted for several knock out left hooks and not have left his opponent standing. He had any number of issues that could have been delivered as such. Let’s face it, this was no time to be playing Mr. Nice guy. I felt embarrassed over his seemingly not knowing what to say with his rambling, closing statement.
I don’t know why President Obama was so calm and aloof, but that seems to be his state of being. I did not want a “passion” fest, I wanted as close to the truth as politicians can get. Both were less than forthcoming but allowing Romney his blatant lies with no more than the casual notice and mild reproach was too much. The “low effort” voters who do not know and will make no effort to know better, may well decide he was not lying based on the lack of confrontation and that is bad for the nation.
I do not think it changed any minds. I cannot fathom being this far into the race and being undecided. That is just a strange concept to me.
93…why is it always lies if Obama disagrees with it? As for being calm and aloof, Obama looked anything but “calm” in that debate. Nice spin effort though.
JimW, no spin, visit the fact checkers for yourself. Romney’s lies had nothing to do with Obama “disagreeing” with him and his “win” had everything to do with Obama not calling him out; although as many times as he would have had to do it, it would have shortened the debate by an hour. Romney knew he had to lie to win, he proved he is not above it, again. No need to keep pretending it was anything else.
I’m not sure debates ever change minds, but I think the goal is to energize an ambivalent base, people that would not ordinarily vote. If voters think their candidate doesn’t have a shot, they may not bother voting, but a solid debate performance might change their minds.
In that regard, I think Romney won the first round, but I think the important thing for Obama is to perform well during the last debate, the one closes to the election.
In terms of the substance of what they said, neither said anything that would change the mind of someone confirmed one way or the other. Certainly nothing that would change MY mind.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-mocks-romney-getting-tough-big-bird-165202158–election.html
Yeah, Obama’s pretty tough, witty and articulate as long as he has a night for his handler’s to think up a response, a teleprompter to regurgitate it back to him and no one else on stage to respond.
If that debate energized people it was the Dems who have been resting on our laurels and expecting Obama to win easily.
Chuck, how long has it taken the Romney on that debate stage to show up? Well over 8 years. Just sayin’.
Speaking of showing up late, it took Romney 17 days to acknowledge the brain drain that allowed his 47% remarks… he has gone from “…”not elegantly stated.” Now he’s calling them “just completely wrong.” Guess he saw a light somewhere in between. Or maybe realizes that was the moment he lost this election for good?
#99 – Or maybe he realized he was wrong and was man enough to admit it?
Unlike you-know-who who constantly blames someone else for his problems.
98 – that may be true, Sandi.
Oh sure Michael, I am sure that is it.
98 – Sandi, the debate Romney has always been there. From a conservative perspective, he always has talked a good game…when he had to portray himself as a conservative. In the way he governs, though, his actions invariably are more statist, big government and neoCon than the debate Romney.
Which is why all the conservatives who actually believe him (this time it’s different!!) are setting themselves up for disappointment. The CPUSA/Dem Partiers, though, will still argue that he’s not big government enough, though the State will continue to grow, and rights will continue to erode.
The perils of trying to be everything to everyone, I guess.
Beyond shadow of a doubt, we have got to figure out when politics became about “trying to be everything to everyone”, which is impossible, and when it became about creating wealth for some at the expense of others too while we are at it. There is only harm in it.
Theodore Roosevelt
The last great Republican
“…At every stage, and under all circumstances, the essence of the struggle is to equalize opportunity, destroy privilege, and give to the life and citizenship of every individual the highest possible value both to himself and to the commonwealth.
…this means that our government, National and State, must be freed from the sinister influence or control of special interests. Exactly as the special interests of cotton and slavery threatened our political integrity before the Civil War, so now the great special business interests too often control and corrupt the men and methods of government for their own profit. We must drive the special interests out of politics.
…The absence of effective State, and, especially, national, restraint upon unfair money-getting has tended to create a small class of enormously wealthy and economically powerful men, whose chief object is to hold and increase their power.“
Your pal at zerohedge has some good points too.
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-09-11/lies-damn-lies-and-disappearing-middle-class
“In conclusion, the middle class is not “disappearing.” It’s becoming weaker, poorer and struggling to maintain its identity. Government action that has helped lower income groups (transfer payments), and rewarded the wealthiest (tax structure, tax breaks), is sucking life energy from the productive middle and upper middle classes.”
I’m not sure how long it took debate Romney to show up Sandi. I didn’t realize he ran in 2004 though? My question is, how long will it be be before the 2008 campaign’s PRESIDENT Obama shows up? He’s been in office for three and half years and still no sign of him.
ps – If today’s jobs numbers are any indication, Romney isn’t the only one whose numbers don’t add up.
Would you consider the government itself a special interest?
@86 Michael…
And conservatives are any different? Don’t make me laugh! They want to amend the Constitution just because me and my partner would like to be in a civil union with each other in order to receives the same civil rights as our heterosexual counterparts.
Don’t sit there and tell me how damned delicate and compassionate members of the Conservative party are…that dog simply won’t hunt, buddy!