Comments on: Weekend open thread

By: Christina Nuckols

Christina Nuckols — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 20:34:06 +0000

Let’s keep it down to a dull roar. Thanks.

By: Michael

Michael — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 18:45:16 +0000

No need to wonder, Sandi…we understand you just fine.

By: Sandi Saunders

Sandi Saunders — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 16:35:26 +0000

Maybe if I did not have an "allergic reaction to letting people keep their own money", or if I could only "understand conservatives as well as conservative understand liberals", if it wasn't all "hogwash" to me since I have "no realistic idea what those who favor tax cuts want", I would be nicer to everyone here. Doubtless because I spend all of my time saying you are "a racist that hates poor people", I have trouble trying to "Stay with the times" and I should just admit that someone's "belief...is beyond ridiculous" instead of asking if they comprehended what is the root of the problem. Or maybe if I quoted the CBO when it suited me, then said they had a "bad habit of looking at the future through rose-colored glasses" when it did not, if I substituted workers for households, and tax cuts for spending, I would not seem so cynical and wonder if people comprehended what I was saying.

By: Sandi Saunders

Sandi Saunders — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 15:23:00 +0000

Guilty as charged.

By: Sandi Saunders

Sandi Saunders — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 14:18:59 +0000

Not only have wages not kept up, but the jobs we are “creating” are too often in the service and minimal income area.

http://www.nelp.org/page/-/Job_Creation/NELP.DecliningWageGrowth.pdf?nocdn=1?nocdn=1

You cannot bemoan the taxes not paid by these workers without recognizing why and it is not just because they were given tax breaks, it is because they are not making enough money to sustain themselves and taking more of what they do not have enough of is not the answer.

By: Sandi Saunders

Sandi Saunders — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 14:13:57 +0000

Why would you be "skeptical" when your own link concludes: "The fact that, adjusted for inflation, wages still remain almost 14% below what they were 40 years ago, despite a doubling in productivity, is a national disgrace. It is one of the roots of the increase in multi-income households, in higher levels of indebtedness needed to maintain consumption levels, and of the sharp increase in inequality we have seen over recent decades."

By: Michael

Michael — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 14:06:08 +0000

#49 – “Tad touchy there, Michael?”

Not at all, gdad. Just pointing out how the discussion always winds up with a certain someone questioning the intelligence of others.

It never fails.

By: Brian Lindholm

Brian Lindholm — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 13:39:31 +0000

To #48 (Art Hill): And increasing contributions is unfair to the young, who will have to part with a greater portion of their paycheck (for purposes of funding Social Security) than anybody ever before them. And will they receive more generous benefits as compensation for their increased sacrifice? Nope. Benefits would have to stay the same for the math to work.

Don’t you think we’ve dumped enough debt on the heads of today’s younger citizens without hammering them further by demanding more payroll taxes?

By: Brian Lindholm

Brian Lindholm — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 13:32:57 +0000

To #45 (Sandi): Ah, I see what you’re getting at. I was looking at “fraction of tax filers” paying, as opposed to “fraction of workers” paying. I concede the point.

However, the question remains: Why are so many fewer filers/workers paying income taxes today than paid in years past? There are two potential reasons that come to mind:

[1] The Bush/Obama tax cuts, combined with increased exemptions, credits, and deductions. I submit that this is the key driver, as there have been numerous warnings that a great many of the working poor will once again pay income taxes if we go “over the cliff” and restore all Clinton-era tax rates.

[2] People earning less. I’m more skeptical of this one, as real wages have risen 3.5% over the past 12 years: http://middleclasspoliticaleconomist.blogspot.com/2012/03/basics-real-wages-remain-below-their.html. Sadly, that’s 3.5% total, and not 3.5% per year, but nevertheless, real wages have risen slightly since 2000.

[On the other hand, interest income earned by seniors on their savings has been absolutely devastated by the Federal Reserve's efforts to keep mortgage rates artificially suppressed. But is this enough to explain an additional 16% of tax filers not having to pay income taxes? I doubt it.]

By: gdad

gdad — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 13:18:04 +0000

#47 “And here we go…insulting peoples intelligence.”

Tad touchy there, Michael?