Monday open thread
It is impossible to experience one’s death objectively and still carry a tune.
What’s on your mind today?
January 7, 2013 - 6:06 AM
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January 7, 2013 - 6:06 AM
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Sunday, May 19, 2013
THE ROANOKE TIMES
In the spirit of open mindedness and bipartisanship, I offer this article.
I’ve apparently given the wrong impression that I think we should completely disarm our citizens. That is not the case. I’ve argued, getting rid of guns WILL bring down gun crimes. I’m not arguing it’s good public policy. It may be, it may not be. While the gun control debate is worth having, basing it solely on the idea of these mass killings will lead us all into the weeds. And because these types of killings are relatively rare is the reason I’m against arming teachers, having volunteer security guards, etc.
http://www.volokh.com/2012/12/14/do-civilians-armed-with-guns-ever-capture-kill-or-otherwise-stop-mass-shooters/
…So it appears that civilians armed with guns are sometimes willing to intervene to stop someone who had just committed a mass shooting in public. In what fraction of mass shootings would such interventions happen, if gun possession were allowed in the places where the shootings happen? We don’t know. In what fraction would interventions prevent more killings and injuries, as opposed to capturing or killing the murderer after he’s already done? We don’t know. In what fraction would interventions lead to more injuries to bystanders? Again, we don’t know. Finally, always keep in mind that mass shootings in public places should not be the main focus in the gun debate, whether for gun control or gun decontrol: They on average account for much less than 1% of all homicides in the U.S., and are unusually hard to stop through gun control laws (since the killer is bent on committing a publicly visible murder and is thus unlikely to be much deterred by gun control law, or by the prospect of encountering an armed bystander).
Still, people have asked for examples of some shootings in which a civilian armed with a gun intervened and brought down the shooter — so here they are.
Although busting at the seams with loaded guns, I don’t think there has ever been a massacre at a shooting range.
WOW…our property values go down again in Roanoke City. I’ve put 25,000 of remodeling into my historic SE Roanoke home over the last 16 years. Now I guess I’ll have to stay here to gain any profit. I’ll just let Roanoke City pry my door key and shovel from my cold dead fingers. But, I will leave them a note praising them for helping to lower my property value by allowing the boarded up, weed filled houses to remain on my street for years as they commonly do in SE.
JimW, that’s an argument from ignorance.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance
Becca, values also went down in neighborhoods were the grass is mowed and the houses aren’t boarded up.
From today’s Roanoke council briefing on assessments:
About 27,000 notices were mailed today to residential property owners whose assessments have changed. Of those, 2,000 will see an increase. The remainder will see a decrease, mostly about 2 percent. The greatest at 10 percent.
While the number of decreases is much higher than last year (18,000 notices), the actual dollar amount decline in overall assessments is smaller, due mostly to apartments and multi-family dwellings increasing in value.
You can see the highlights of the presentation here.
Becca, if you receive a notice that your value decreased and you do not believe that is so, you can appeal.
Wow, that might be a first, I don’t think I have ever heard anyone complain about a lowered tax assessment. Go Becca! Even I wouldn’t go that far.
#4 – “JimW, that’s an argument from ignorance.”
After reading you comment about cops rushing into shooting situations, Scott, I think I’d be a bit leery of telling someone else they are ignorant.
6 – Luanne – interesting that property values of apartments and multi-family dwellings increased while those of single-value homes decreased. Any illumination of how that happened? Seems like they would all increase or decrease proportionately.
@9 Michael, I realize we have our differences but note I was NOT calling JimW ignorant.
You probably realize what it is but in case you don’t, it simply means not knowing of something isn’t the same as definitively knowing something didn’t happen.
Just because JimW isn’t aware of mass shootings at gun ranges doesn’t mean there have been none. It doesn’t mean there have been any and I don’t know of any either. But if someone knows of one, that shoots his statement down in flames. By pointing out the error in logic, I may have saved him from future embarrassed.
Best wishes.
For instance:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30109090/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/mom-kills-son-then-self-shooting-range/#.UOtB82-_G84
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/shooting-range-video-shows-twins-shot-simultaneously
http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/livingston_county/assault-rifle-brought-to-gun-range-teen-shoots-friend-when-gun-jams
Just like the gun safety videos of the “teacher” shooting themselves or an “unloaded” gun…never say never.
@10 good question, though I don’t know the answer. Briefing did not get into specifics on why apartment values rose other than a passing mention to a value model, and that demand is high for this type of residence.
Assessments are kind of odd in that values for ranches in a neighborhood might remain steady while those of two-stories went down. Assessment values for tax purposes are based on sales data.
One thing hampering the process is the low volume of sales during the last few years.
Before the recession, 1,200 to 1,300 residential properties exchanged hands annually. Now it’s fewer than 500.
The good news is that the number of sales is rising, as is the price; and the number of foreclosures is decreasing. All this probably means that we have hit bottom and values will stabilize and increase in coming years.
I heard a bit of discussion the other day that mentioned that when the housing market is tight rent and rental property values go up and vice versa.
@12 Sandi, thanks for bringing those stories to our attention. It doesn’t happen often but it’s terrible when it does.
14 – that is interesting, Sandi. Can we conclude that the assessment is based not so much on the condition of the property, improvements, etc., but on how much money the government can extract from the owner?
Oh, I am sure each individual assessment is based on both the market at the time and the condition of the property, improvements, etc. Do you believe the market has no bearing here? Since the owner has the right to appeal any assessment and assessments are supposed to be done by professionals, no, I do not believe the market in operation here is the government or how much money they can extract from any owner. But I certainly expect you to.
Good points on the real estate assessment topic. Sandi, idont mind paying a little bit higher. In taxes if I make improvements to my house thats expected. Id rather do that than Lose everything I put into my. property. Its very discouraging. Why even make improvements if your assessment keeps dropping?
17 – incoherent AND snarky. Thank you.
Blaming guns for killings is like blaming the car when a drunk driver causes a fatal accident. The proposed gun law is useless. If somebody wants a certain kind of gun bad enough they’ll find a way to get it. Just ask around, second hand guns are cheaper and sold every day.
Nah, James, the solution to drunk drivers is to ban alcohol. It’s been done before. Worked great.
@20 James, has a gun law been proposed? It’s an honest question. I really don’t know.
#22 – Take a look at what Diane Feinstein is proposing, Scott. Her proposal will instantly create millions of criminals.
Thank you Michael. Maybe I asked the wrong question (I’ve not read Feinstein’s proposed law by the way). I think I meant to ask has any gun restriction law been introduced to either chamber.
I knew Feinstein wanted to introduce some legislation but didn’t know if it had gotten so far that it could be voted on.
Does anyone know?
Nevermind. Found it. It looks like it hasn’t been introduced yet but at her web site she has a summary.
http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons
Oh, 89Hoo? And your #16 wasn’t “incoherent AND snarky”? Is that what you are going with?
Becca, I have no way of knowing your situation or improvements but if they were mainly on the inside, then you would need to ask for a reassessment so that they can be considered which would upgrade your assessment IMO. If they were on the outside and very visible, I would still ask for one, you need to feel comfortable with your assessment since it matters to you. I am sure the City will be accommodating. If not, that matters too. Keep us posted.
During the easy credit boom, many renters became home owners. Rental property values and rents went down. After the easy credit collapse then housing market collapse, many people lost their homes and had to become renters. Also, since the market for home sales was so bad and credit so tight, many buyers stayed or became renters. That, logically drives up rental property values and rental rates. I think they call it something like, the free market.
And yes, I am being “snarky” because there was just flat out no need for #16 and it makes me mad that you do that every time you can. Your fantasy world of the gold standard, balanced budgets and lower to no taxation is not going to happen and if it is so great, there would be nations you could point to as switching and being successful with it. Your admiration for all things Austrian Economics is just as bad as Scott M’s admiration for all things Communist. It is not going to happen and using that to denigrate everything in America has gotten old.
I daresay few people like paying taxes and seeing our representative form of government be representative for only one way, but like the man said, “Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…”
http://richardlangworth.com/worst-form-of-government
Becca, if you obtained a building permit for your improvements then the city would know to figure in those improvements in establishing the property’s value. Unfortunately, though, in the real estate market these past few years, money that you put in to improve your property doesn’t necessarily show up in its value. Consider it a long-term investment, and that the value will rise again. In the meantime, enjoy the fruits of your renovations.
So true Luanne, anyone ever watch that show that decides the “bang for the buck” when homeowners do renovations? It is interesting how some will add huge value and others little to none. Vacant lots, abandoned properties and unsightly areas in a neighborhood do affect values. Not your fault, but it does hurt the entire neighborhood.
Thanks for the suggestions and information! We did improvements inside and out. New gas furnace, New cabinets, granite countertop, refinished the hardwood floors was just one of 10 major improvements. Unfortuantly, only the deck and garage required building permits and isnt visible from the street. Oh well!
26 – apologies, Sandi. My comments in 16 were directed at government agencies. Didn’t realize that included you. Again, apologies.
Becca, sounds like all that you did will make your house more enjoyable for you and more marketable if and when you go to sell it. In the meantime, if your city assessment goes down, enjoy, too, the lower tax bill.
No worries 89Hoo, but in the future, your posts “directed at government agencies” should not begin with “that is interesting, Sandi. Can we conclude…” It will no doubt help my serious impairment of considering myself a government agency. I am sure of it.
34 – yes ma’am.
Not to stir you up again, 89Hoo, but your conclusion in 16 directed at government agencies isn’t quite fair either, is it? The topic was real estate tax assessments in Roanoke. The city does this each year to reflect the market value of properties so that taxpayers pay taxes on no more nor no less than the current value of their property.
If one type of property increases in market value and another decreases in market value, and the taxing value reflects that, how would you reach the conclusion that the taxing body is making a grab for more money? Seems to me that the agency is attempting to make it as fair as possible.
36 – it was a rhetorical question more than anything else, Luann. I had frankly never considered that the trends in tax assessments would follow housing trends, and am not really sure if I am surprised or not (or if I should be). I’m not stirred up…more like thinking aloud.
You don’t think market value is considered in assessments? Really? I thought that was free market 101 – supply and demand.
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/tax/09/calculate-property-tax.asp#axzz2HQj7hLFa
“Basic Valuation Concepts
Value
A main consideration in appraising is to determine a property’s value: the present worth of future benefits arising from the ownership of real property. Unlike many consumer goods that are quickly used, the benefits of real property are generally realized over a long period of time. Therefore, an estimate of a property’s value must take into consideration economic and social trends, as well as governmental controls or regulations and environmental conditions that may influence the four elements of value:
Demand – the desire or need for ownership supported by the financial means to satisfy the desire;
Utility – the ability to satisfy future owners’ desires and needs;
Scarcity – the finite supply of competing properties and
Transferability – the ease with which ownership rights are transferred.”
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/realestate/12/real-estate-valuation.asp#axzz2HQj7hLFa
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/mortgages-real-estate/08/housing-appreciation.asp#axzz1uqxIZ6me
#1zero…’Hoo….people have to live somewhere. In the year of our Obama #5 people cannot afford to buy houses & banks are not lending. Rent goes up thus the value of rental property goes up.