Monday open thread
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What’s on your mind today?
March 18, 2013 - 6:06 AM
March 18, 2013 - 6:06 AM
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Thursday, May 23, 2013
THE ROANOKE TIMES
I am curious as to the reaction of regular posters on this site:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_CYPRUS_FINANCIAL_CRISIS?SITE=VAROA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Any chance it could happen here? Why or why not? What can someone do to protect his property from government seizure?
Yes it could happen here and something similar has been considered by Congress and the Treasury Dept.
Don’t think for a minute that your 401(k)s aren’t on the table as a part of the solution for lack of revenue. It is estimated that as much as $3 trillion is held in 401(k)s.
That money is just sitting there and the government would love to get its hands on some of it even before the retiree begins to draw it out. Some would like to tax that money, you can guess which party!
Read More At Investor’s Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/112812-634984-401k-on-the-table-for-fiscal-cliff.htm#ixzz2NvZEBZ3D
I do not believe that our government, at any level, has the authority or the right to confiscate even a dime of anyone’s money in a bank, unless for tax liens; however, anyone who thinks they will be able to run to the bank and withdraw their money should a panic start, will be in for a very big surprise. On any given day, few if any banks have the cash on hand to cover the money on deposit with them. Capitalism 101
Certainly 401k money being played in the stock market is vulnerable without any government touching it. Been there, done that.
We are not Greece, we are not near to being Greece and we will not ever be Greece.
On two threads in particular…..and a slightly more general one, how many watched/heard the CBS news this (Monday) evening?
On their coverage of the student at U of Central Florida, as they spoke to the found gun they initially called it a “semi-automatic rifle”. I literally took relief & said out-loud; “CBS got it right”. 30 or so seconds later, with an earplug in his ear, from the same reporter it became; “an assault rifle”.
Once again coverage of the newly “elected” Pope rapidly transcended into implications of his complicity in Argentinian right wing torture & death squads.
The general media, very much represented by CBS….will not let 30 seconds transpire without falsely pushing their anti-gun agenda…..and cannot stand the choice of whom they label a “conservative” Pope.
#3 IMO, wrong from beginning to end.
The federal government has “the authority” to do whatever it wants. It can be stopped in retrospect perhaps by the SC & the voters….if they are still “allowed”.
Ceasing peoples’ property & wealth is exactly how they operate (plus now printing bogus money).
You acknowledge there is no real money in the banks….but state we are not Greece. (?)
“Capitalism 101″? Please explain. And please explain your issue & implication as to “capitalism”.
@1 Any chance it could happen here? There is no physical reason (such as the law of gravity) why it couldn’t so yes there is the chance although minimal.
Will it? I doubt it. Why? Don’t know. Just doesn’t seem to be in the cards. Things aren’t that desperate at least not yet.
What could you do about it? Nothing really at least by yourself. I guess if you’re paranoid, you could withdraw your money and put it in a home safe or something. Or you could transfer it out of the country to Cyprus like the Russians have done.
But it wouldn’t break my heart to hear of the government taking the deposits of some foreign criminal organization. They do it now in fact. You can have your assets taken if you contribute money to organizations considered to be terroristic. We’ve frozen bank assets of other countries before.
It seems the biggest problem is the general Cypriot population is probably misinformed of what’s going on. Sort of like how Americans tend to be against the Inheritance Tax because they think it will apply to them when in fact it’s really only effects a minority of the population.
@2 John R., I’m stupider for having read that link.
That groups sounds like an Astroturf organization much like how the Tea Party got started.
Sandi, fractional reserve banking is not really a component of Capitalism 101, at least not the free market variety (though the bankster/crony part of crony capitalism endorse it fully as a way to get rich off of other peoples’ money). Keynesians and Socialists (basically any proponent of central banking and fiat money) endorse fractional reserve banking as an inflationary measure (they call it “flexibility”) so they can spend more than they bring in.
Jim Lucas #5 IMO, you do not have the knowledge to decide if I am “wrong”.
The federal government does not have “the authority” to do whatever it wants”. It never has had that “authority”. That would be anarchy. We have a Constitution and we have laws. We are much more likely to suffer due to a Wall Street decision than a White House decision in such a scenario. The widespread panic and anger would never be worth whatever motivated the need for such a step. I do not yet understand fully the Cyprus matter as I have not studied it, but that too seems to have been blown out of proportion. (Imagine that).
The government does not seize people’s money or property without cause and a process.
I do not “acknowledge there is no real money in the banks” and that is not what I said! And no, we are not Greece.
“Capitalism 101″? Please explain”. Seriously, you need me to explain why our money is not just sitting in a vault at the bank? Really?
#9 Sandi, you are correct that the federal government does not have the power to do what it wants.
However the current attitude of Obama and the Dem Congressional leadership is that if it can be enacted either by executive order or legislation, the Constitution be damned.
Examples are Obama’s unconstitutional appointment of 3 NLRB members that continue to make rulings. Another is Sen. Feinstein’s and the senate Dems proposed anti gun legislation, knowing full well most, if not all, would be struck down by the current Supreme Court. The Dems know that if passed, it may take years for it to reach the Court.
They just don’t care about the Constitution!
Pretty sure fractional-reserve banking predates the Fed, 89Hoo. There is no “free-market”, not the one you mean anyway.
Of course fractional reserve banking pre-dates the Fed. So does central banking in general. So does banking in general. So do crooked bankers, even those sanctioned by the state.
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The practice of spending for their own benefit that which they were entrusted to safeguard goes back about just about as far as man does. While it’s not the oldest sin in the world, theft is likely not much younger.
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And thank you for pointing out that there is no free market. I’ve been saying that for years, pretty much anytime anyone blames the free market for any ill. How can the free market be to blame when there is no free market?
Using that metric John R, quite a few Presidents have not cared about the Constitution! “Arms for Hostages” ring any bells? Who declared War on Grenada?
I still maintain that playing with other people’s money is Capitalism 101.
14 – but if you maintain that stealing other peoples’ money is Capitalism 101 than I would submit that you do not understand free market capitalism, though you DO have a good grasp of crony capitalism (Keynesianism). As I have explained to Scott M, crony capitalism is to free market capitalism as European football (soccer) is to American football…same name, entirely different game.
I said nothing about stealing? Where did stealing come into the discussion?
Keynesian economics is not “crony capitalism”.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/cronycapitalism.asp
Capitalism 101 encourages investment not just letting money sit in a vault. It is really just that simple.
Sandi, I know you said nothing about stealing, but that is at the base of fractional reserve banking. Allowing bankers to do something with YOUR money besides hold it for you. That means they may not have it if you want it all – as you said above. That’s theft in any other world, but crony capitalism in Keynes’ world (aside from being inflationary).
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Investment is fine, as long as you do it with your own money, and when I give money to you (let’s say you’re a bank) and just ask you to hold it for me until such time as I want it back, it’s still NOT your money. And for you to take it and invest it, is theft.
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If I want mine left in a vault, if I want my money to just sit there, that’s my prerogative. If I want it invested, I’ll do it myself.
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So we are all on the same page, I’m talking about demand deposits – basic checking and savings – and not other instruments, such as CDs, IRAs, etc.
Of course they will “have it all” when you want it, the only problem would come if everyone or most everyone came in for ALL of their money on deposit at the same time. The FDIC, regulations and oversight keeps the system honest. You are trying to make it look like something it is not IMO.
If banks could not use the money on deposit to make loans and service the accounts of customers they would not make money and the economy could not function.
If you want your money in a vault, buy one and put it there. No one has taken that option from you.
All things considered, I think we have a save and secure system that no one should fear, certainly not losing your money in it. Investing on the other hand, you could gain or lose a fortune in a moment.