Wednesday letters
Congress and Americans in today’s letters to the editor.
Pick of the Day: The evolving order is no bad thing
Cal Thomas’ column of March 13, “The sound of inevitability,” laments the growing acceptance of same-sex marriage.
He suspects it is inevitable, due to “a growing number of Americans abandoning the source of morality and goodness,” which is “a book found in most hotel room drawers.”
In multiple places, the Bible endorses the institution of slavery. It endorses genocidal war. There are many people mentioned in it who have multiple wives and concubines, and from cover to cover, the Bible says not a word against polygamy.
There is not a word in favor of equal rights for women, for freedom of religion or for representative government. This country was founded in rebellion against a divinely anointed king.
Have Americans abandoned the “rules for living and social order” laid down in the Bible? Yes, for some time now.
JOHN B. HODGES
BLACKSBURG
March 20, 2013 - 6:10 AM
Mr. Hodges…Would you now like to reveal to us the beliefs of the Koran ? For some reason, liberals won`t dare speak of the Muslim HATE for the west, but will attack Christianity. Liberalism is truly proving itself to be the party of INTOLERANCE. On display for all to see. Thanks, Mr. Hodges, for bringing this out in the open…..Again.
Mr. Hodges needs to understand and distinguish the Old and New Covenants, the teachings of Christ from Mosaic Law.
If Islam were the majority religion in this nation, I am certain we would all “dare to speak” of it. We don’t “dare to speak” of the Catholic/Protestant, Israeli/Palestinian, Sunni/Shia, Christians/Fundamentalists conflicts all that often either.
In your indignation that we will not tolerate bigotry, does it ever occur to you that the “attack” in this issue is FROM Christians not on them? Just like women, racial/ethnic minorities, the disabled, and religion, we no longer believe it is tolerable to discriminate against homosexual couples. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and every other kind of religion will just have to learn to live with our moving on. Again.
Let’s see, Awood, Mr. Hodges was addressing Cal Thomas’ column. We know that Cal objects to same-sex marriage on Christian grounds so Mr. Hodges talks about the Bible and Christian beliefs. Did Cal refer to the Koran in his column? If not, why would Hodges bring that up?
@Awood, the Koran/Muslim faith does not directly impact our laws in the way Christianity does. As a result Mr. Hodges chose to point out the fact that Christian biblical law/moral code should have little to do with how we create laws. I’m sure if Sharia law was the issue that Mr. Hodges would point it out. Your attack on Liberalism being the party of intolerance is completely off base, as it is I can point to many articles pointing out the atrocities being done in the name of religion across the globe.
Furthermore, Liberalism is not a party…nor does it mean what you think it means. In some instances when capitalized it is defined as “a movement in modern Protestantism emphasizing intellectual liberty and the spiritual and ethical content of Christianity” that is from Websters. It can also mean, when capitalized, the principles and policies of a Liberal party. However, it is not a “party.” Just as Conservatives are not a party.
@89Hoo, There is plenty of hypocrisy and violence in the New Covenant and the Old is used quite often by Christian groups to validate or invalidate ideas as they see fit.
when xtians go a-gay-bashing, they move seamlessly from leviticus to the epistles, tis true. its all the word of god, right? cant pick and choose.
NW, it is sadly true that many abuse in the name of Christ. But it is important to recognize that Christ’s me covenant replaced the punishments and rituals of the Mosaic Law. Christ condemned stoning and persecution, and preached that only love of Him would gain Heaven’s reward.
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So anyone who bashes gays or anyone else is actually subverting Christ’s teachings not following them. Those who haven’t read them Christ’s teachings, choose to misunderstand and misrepresent them, or haven’t accepted Christ as the promised Savior are not acting in His behalf.
do “christs teachings” include the pauline epistles? just wondering cuz that’s where one find a lot of the weird stuff
That so many still have a religious taboo on homosexuality and same sex marriage is simply a testament to the power of hate IMO.
If you look at the Bible, and take it all in context to what is happening, it condemns adultery and fornication outside of marriage many, many times more than it even mentions same sex activity. When it mentions same sex activity, it is in the context of being wanton and promiscuous, like adultery. The Bible never mentions same sex activity in the way that same sex couples commit and love each other like a marriage so even if I wanted to, I would be misapplying the Bible message to condemn that. Also, even with all that emphasis, up to and including being stoned for adultery, virtually every religion accepts it and allows divorce and remarriage without a blemish or a peep. I am saddened that the taboo of same sex love and marriage is based in hate and judgement but it clearly is. Read it in context and explain how it is not? You can’t.
Well, weird is in the eye of the beholder, but I don’t recall anywhere that Paul, or any of the apostles, speaking on behalf of Christ, condoned persecution of homosexuals or other sinners. Bring them to Christ, yes; condemn the sin, yes; persecute, stone, harm…no. Just like with other sins.
9 – you are absolutely right in that Christ does not rank order sins – adultery is no more or less worth condemnation than theft, which is no more or less worth condemnation than lying (bearing false witness), which is no more or less worth than murder, which is no more or less worth condemnation than homosexuality…in the eyes of Christ. Obviously a civil society must, in order to maintain order, rank order crimes, which may or may not be the same things as sins…we can all point to things that are crimes (speeding, for example) which do not violate God’s law, and things that violate God’s law (okay, homosexuality) which are not crimes (any more).
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But even as Christ condemns certain sins – including promiscuity, and theft, and murder, and homosexuality, he does not sentence those guilty of the sins to stoning or any such earthly measure. Since he does not rank order sins, to stone one sinner for one thing would sentence all sinners for all sins…since it is a basic tenet of Christianity that we are all born into sin.
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Christ does not teach punishment, but love, and the introduction to the sinner of Himself. In this way, there is always eternal hope for all sinners, irrespective of the sin, and irrespective of the crimes they may have committed here on earth, and irrespective of the earthly punishment.
#10 Should those who round off the corners of their beards or reap their fields to the very edges be “brought to Christ” as well?
Even if I agreed with what you said 89Hoo #11, basing our laws and their “rankings” on the Bible would have adultery and promiscuity just as “egregious” as homosexuality both in our laws and out hearts. And we all know that is not how it is. It is not justified to keep only the same sex marriage and commitment as forbidden. Not by the Bible and not by humanity IMO.
Not sure what an “out heart” would be, so let’s pretend that reads “our hearts”, as it should.
#9 – Good points. The Bible mentions homosexuality only about six times. More than 2,400 times, it talks about the need to care for the poor, support widows and orphans, and ensure justice. Those references are found throughout both the Old and New Testaments, so this must be regarded as a major theme of the entire Bible. Focusing on homosexuality and abortion as important issues for Christians is like staring at the speck while ignoring the beam.
12 – yes, NW, Christ died for everyone, even those who trim their beards and reap their fields as Leviticus prescribed. What His new covenant did was replace the rituals and laws of Moses as a condition for eternity with God with acceptance of Christ (while maintaining the foundation of the Ten Commandments). Doesn’t mean one COULDN’T reap and trim, etc., if he chooses, as long as a) he doesn’t think that will win his reward, and b) he accepts Christ as the Savior.
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13 – which is the reason our laws are NOT based on those that Christ taught…isn’t that what the 1st Amendment is for? The basis of our laws – roughly, natural law, if you will – is echoed in societies, civilizations and faiths throughout history, as many have noted. Essentially the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule; all societies and societies have based their laws on some version or equivalent, both as a basis and as a matter of practicality.
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Besides, God’s reward, and His judgement, transcends the terrestrial political boundaries. His reward is not of this world, so his judgement is not of what we do in this world except to the degree that it reveals – to him – the content of the heart. There are Christians in parts of the world that are unbelievably hostile to Christianity, and there are non-Christians in parts of the world that claim to base their laws in Christ.
#16 replace Mosaic law while maintaining it as a foundation … I’ve got whiplash.
17 – well, then slow down; it ain’t hard.
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The 10 Commandments (you know, prohibitions against murder, theft, lying, loyalty to God…the same basic foundations of most civilized societies) formed the foundation for Mosaic Law, and all the ceremonies, and sacrifices, and all that. God expected His followers to do all that stuff (the ceremonies, rituals, sacrifices, etc) to prove their loyalty to Him.They also included man punishing his fellow man for sins and transgressions against God. God recognized, though, the burden that placed, and promised to provide a new covenant that didn’t require all that.
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Christ’s New Covenant was the fulfillment of that promise. God still expected man to follow the 10 Commandments (you know, prohibitions against murder, theft, lying, loyalty to God…) but no longer required the onerous penalties, punishments, ceremonies, etc. Instead, accepting and following Christ is all that’s required.
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Of course, not everyone accepts or accepted Christ as the promised covenant.
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So those who ascribe to Christianity the Old Testament punishments are misdirecting their anger, as Christ does not teach that, and anyone who has read and who truly Christ would not stone homosexuals or adulterers etc.
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Similarly, those who support Old Testament-style punishments for transgressions against God are NOT following Christ’s teachings, even if they think they are.
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I would guess they are misreading Christ, do not understand that the new testament replaced the old, or may be those of the Jewish faith who never accepted Christ. That includes the televangelists of the world who claim that natural disasters are God’s punishment. God doesn’t work that way (any more).