March 11, 2007
Comment on Trejbal's column
Shedding light on concealed handguns
By Christian Trejbal
Today is the start of Sunshine Week, the annual week in which we reflect on the importance of open government and public records. To mark the occasion, I want to take you on an excursion into freedom of information land. We're going to find out who in the New River Valley has a concealed handgun permit.
Read more.
Comments
[March 11, 2007 9:15 AM]
Scot ShippeeFor those law abiding citizens like me who don't appreciate our full names and addresses (whether they are former addresses or not) being posted online, let me me also "illustrate the open government process"
CHRISTIAN J TREJBAL
675 SCHOOL LN
CHRISTIANSBURG, VA 24073
Now that the playing field is leveled, I would like to add that the freedom of information act is a necessary evil, posting personal information on the internet as a "Sunshine Week Gift" is not.
[March 11, 2007 9:42 AM]
Jack AndersonExcellent article!
Now we know. With just a little research a reporter can find personal information and a newspaper will publish it, mistakes and all.
Lots of people will be busy today. Violent criminals will find out who to avoid in the neighborhood. Burglars will be making lists of where burgle handguns. Gun owners will be calling their legislators to change the law to keep the information private or maybe they will even demand the gun laws be repealed all together. Wouldn’t that be terrible. What kind of State would let any law abiding citizen carry a concealed handgun without government permission? What kind of violent crime rate would ensue. Oh, right! Vermont’s like that. And, Vermont has almost no violent gun crime.
A very busy day and only 23 hours.
Thanks for abusing the First Amendment to support the Second.
[March 11, 2007 9:47 AM]
Kevin LightThanks for posting this list. Now criminals can print a list of possible cars with addresses that may have handguns in them. Good job. I guess more people will have to carry on their person now. Did you ever think if someone is really that nosey they would find out for themselves. You just don't seem to think before you print your articles. I for one do not appricate my name being on your site.
[March 11, 2007 10:00 AM]
Leigh HendersonEach and every week I become more disappointed in the Roanoke Times for giving Trejbal a stage to, yet again, "slam" the citizens of the New River Valley. Do you read his work before it is published? Do you even care that his writing is a constant slap in the face to the people in this community?
Explain to me what gives him the right to make assumptions that people who have concealed weapons permits are violent? To insinuate that our locally elected public officials might becomes violent or worse, if annoyed at a public meeting?!!
Trejbal, take a look at some statistics on where guns used in crimes typically come from. Feel free to educate yourself.
[March 11, 2007 10:04 AM]
ElizabethI have to agree with Scot: posting this personal data is an unacceptable use of it. Being no expert in the FOIA, I would guess that data gained through it can be used for your personal amusement or research, or for some business/legal purpose. Posting the names and addresses of people who have committed no crimes (as far as we know) is misusing the data. The police department that posted the names of offenders is one thing: those people had broken the law. A newspaper posting the names AND addresses of people who've done nothing but get a gun permit is NOT the same.
[March 11, 2007 10:22 AM]
C. TrejbalJack, you should direct your anger about mistakes in the data toward the state, which maintains shoddy records. We should expect better from our officials.
[March 11, 2007 10:32 AM]
C. TrejbalDuring my research for this column, I took a close look at crime rates and related data for concealed carry states vs. non-concealed states. (The NRA lists 10 states as having unacceptable concealed carry laws.) That information did not make the column because there was not space and because it was only tangential to the fundamental theme of the column -- open government.
Here, in brief, is what I found using FBI data.
Overall violent crime rates are slightly lower in concealed carry states. For several specific classes of crime, however, the rates are considerably higher in concealed carry states, notably rape, aggravated assault, property crimes, burglarly and theft.
Also, in concealed carry states, police are twice as likely to be feloniously killed.
But, as I said, I'm not arguing for or against concealed carry or guns in general here.
[March 11, 2007 10:33 AM]
Daniel"We're going to find out who in the New River Valley has a concealed handgun permit."
Well. CONCEALMENT has pretty much gone down the tubes now, hasn't it. I have to agree with post #3 in that Mr. Trejbal's article has likely made it easier for crooks to find out which houses may have handguns on-site. I am greatly disappointed in Mr. Trejbal's having made this information so much more easily accessible to those who might abuse it.
Regarding post #1: good job, Mr. Shippee.
[March 11, 2007 12:27 PM]
David VannI suppose since it's public information and available on the net, we should obtain the authors home address, phone number and SS# along with those of the editor and staff of the paper and publish that information on the internet. After all, why not? We might want to send them Christmas cards or know where they live so we can keep our children away from them. Let's start working on it.
[March 11, 2007 1:13 PM]
C. TrejbalBefore releasing the holders of concealed handgun permits, the state police strip out social security numbers. Information provided is Name, Address, Issue Date, Expiration Date and Jurisdiction (the circuit court that issued it).
[March 11, 2007 2:59 PM]
vashooterCHRISTIAN J TREJBAL
675 SCHOOL LN
CHRISTIANSBURG, VA 24073
Just in case someone missed it.
Thanks for upsetting my wife. She has a concealed weapon permit to protect herself, not so you could publish it online for criminals to see.
Concealed handgun permit holders and sex offenders???? Your a class act, way to abuse the first amendment while trying to strip us of the second.
[March 11, 2007 3:44 PM]
WebsterThe previous posts have made good points. Publishing such a list of concealed carry permit holders makes that list far too easy for criminals to find and abuse.
Honestly, if a crook had to go to the courthouse or the State Police to request this information, he or she would be far less likely to do so. But now that the information is so readily obtainable to the anonymous individual, it's easy for any goon to go to the library, get on the Web, and prepare his or her new hit list.
Is Trejbal using his First Amendment rights? Sure he is. But just like those who want to exercise their Second Amendment rights, he should temper that use with a heaping dose of responsibility.
I think the effects of this particular exercise were not well thought out, and I believe Trejbal has done once again what he appears to do very well: stir up controversy. I also believe he has done a disservice to the entire intent of CONCEALED carry.
[March 11, 2007 3:45 PM]
Will R.I suppose that Mr. Trejbal would have no problem having any available piece of public information from his life published in the newspaper?
The problem with the mainstream media today is that they have forgotten the difference between "can" and "should". There are a great many things we can do that are legal but just not right. The Roanoke Times has with this article proven that they are no better than the rest of the mainstream media.
I for one will no longer spend my money on a publication with such low ethical standards. In addition, the company where I am employed has advertised in the Roanoke Times in the past, I am in a position to see that this will not happen again. Clearly 3,826 concealed carry permit holders in the New River Valley mean nothing to the Roanoke Times as newspaper buyers, maybe advertising dollars mean more.
[March 11, 2007 3:49 PM]
C. TrejbalI find it interesting that I'm willing to put my name on something that I know some people will not like. Yet so many of my critics lack the courage to identify themselve. Kudos to Scott, Jack, Kevin, Leigh and David.
On another note, shouldn't knowledge that you are armed scare away the criminals? That used to be an argument for why people should be allowed to carry, but now it seems that carrying is dangerous somehow.
[March 11, 2007 4:02 PM]
JoshChristian,
I was wondering what you thought about a registry identifying gay men being made available to the public, given there is now evidence to support the claim that there is a link between sexual abuse of boys by gay men.
Evidence has shown eighty-one percent of sex crimes committed against children by Roman Catholic priests during the past 52 years were homosexual men preying on boys.
That seems at least as great a public danger as people owning handguns. I just wanted to get your thoughts on this. Would this be as reasonable as publishing the weapons list?
[March 11, 2007 4:07 PM]
DaveGee Christian, great job. I wonder if it makes you feel any safer that the criminals now know that you DO NOT have a permit. Works both ways.
I think the Roanoke Times was incredibly irresponsible publishing this list. If you were so concerned about 'open government' why didn't you publish a sex offenders list?
It's time the state enacted laws prohibiting these yahoo journalists with an agenda from publishing lists of names and addresses of citizens who have done nothing wrong. You just put a lot of people in potential jeaporady...hope you're proud of yourself.
[March 11, 2007 4:09 PM]
C. TrejbalJosh, though I don't agree that you've produced any actual evidence, we can play the hypothetical.
Yes, if the government maintained a list of gay men, I would favor it being subject to open records laws. That said, I'd oppose the creation of such a list.
[March 11, 2007 4:14 PM]
C. TrejbalDave, there is already an online database of sex offenders in Virginia. It even has a nifty interactive map. You can play with it here.
And, as you know, criminals now know I don't have a concealed handgun permit, not that I don't have a gun. Those are different things. Plenty of people own guns without having a permit to carry them concealed.
[March 11, 2007 4:15 PM]
JoshChristian,
I will gladly share the link that supports my claim about the link between gay men and the molestation of boys.
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040227-111236-5901r.htm
So why on earth would you oppose the creation of such a registry identifying gay men. Don't you believe families deserve to know where gay men live so they can protect their young boys?
[March 11, 2007 4:17 PM]
C. TrejbalJosh, I have no interest in following you off on this unrelated subject. If you have something substantive to add to the conversation about concealed handgun permits, feel free to do so.
[March 11, 2007 4:24 PM]
Dave"And, as you know, criminals now know I don't have a concealed handgun permit, not that I don't have a gun. Those are different things. Plenty of people own guns without having a permit to carry them concealed.
"
I'm willing to bet that you DON'T have a gun in your home...yet.
Why are you so afraid of people carrying "concealed"? You do realize that in the state of Virginia open carry is completely legal (and legal without a permit)? It aggravates me that I've gone through all the hoops and red tape to get a concealed permit and you benefit from the potential protection that I provide.
CCW holders are some of the most law-abiding citizens there are - and one would think you'd be happy to know that we've all been background checked and have no criminal records. If you're trying to stir up the BS about felons having permits (a la Florida) then you need to do a little more research and see that the judicial system was the cause in Florida.
I've forwarded this article to VCDL (Virginia Citizens Defense League) - I'm sure they'll be more than pleased with your "expose".
[March 11, 2007 4:36 PM]
JackWell, Christian you have written a great article. Youve allowed us to see that you do not have a CC permit.
Why is that? Couldn't you pass the backgroud check. Are you a convicted felon?, wife beater?, drug addict?
not a US citizen, dishonable discharge from the military? Christain, you and my neigbors dont need to fear me. They need to fear those that can't pass the Virginia state police background check.
There are other advantages to having a carry permit besides carrying a gun, but I'm sure you not aware of the current legislation concerning this topic.
[March 11, 2007 4:45 PM]
C. TrejbalDave, I have written nothing in opposition to concealed carry. It is the law in Virginia, just as it is the law that those records are open.
Jack, I have never applied for a concealed carry permit, though if I took the required class, nothing in my background would disqualify me.
[March 11, 2007 4:48 PM]
BobChristian: Your response to many rings hollow. Did you know that the mortgage info on your house including taxes, payment, loan info and past ownership is all public record? So is your unlisted phone number. It's all public record. The same public record you like to apply to permit holders we can now apply to you. I know you don't mind. Sunshine is a good thing, right? We've only gotten started. I'm sure there are plenty of parents who would want to know if they were living next door to a reporter. Never know what those pesky reporters are up to. Well, thanks to the internet, public records and concerned gun owners, now they'll know and be able to sleep better at night. Join with me Christian, sunshine is good.
[March 11, 2007 4:59 PM]
David Troy HinaMr. Trejbal,
Thank you for making my name and address, and the fact that i own guns, available to all.
Sir, are you familiar with the definition of "concealed"?
That means no one knows about it, it is hidden!
What is your address Mr Trejbal? You have shown the world mine, show the world yours.
Your stats on crime in CCW states are wrong. Not sure where you are getting them from. Provide us with a link to your FBI crime stats vs. CCW states and non CCW states. We only have to look at our Nation's Capitol, where guns are banned-period(unless locked up, disassembled, and no ammo present)to see that violent crime exists, predominantly, in areas, with strict gun control.
You are wrong about CCW and should educate yourself. Try an NRA CCW permit course, and some range time.
With respect,
David Hina
CHP Holder
[March 11, 2007 5:01 PM]
DaleMr. Trejbal,
A number of law abiding citizens go to a good deal of trouble and expense in order to obtain a concealed carry permit. This process is, in fact, considerably more involved than getting your drivers license (and if you think firearms are more dangerous than cars you really need to do some research). We could, quite legally, forgo that time, expense, and governmental investigation and simply open carry as we please. This is perfectly legal in Virginia.
So why do we bother with all of the hoop jumping?
Because "Bill of Rights" topics seem to get people worked up (on all sides of the matter). In consideration of that, some firearms owners prefer to be much more discreet in their actions. Also you may consider CCW permits as a compromise between those who believe in the Bill of Rights (especially the 2'nd Amendment) and those who think only duly authorized agents of the state should be armed. Isn't compromise supposed to be good?
It appears that you do not feel that compromise is good since your article simply blows the lid off of any attempt at discretion. You may truly believe that "the people have the right to know" but I have to ask you WHY do they need to know?
The people you have "uncovered" are law abiding citizens who have been "vetted" by the state via a background check, and who have spent their own precious time and money to go through an OPTIONAL (they could just open carry) process of training and authorization that is supposed to lessen tensions for everyone concerned. That these people have gone through all this bother AND PASSED should make you consider them MORE trustworthy not less.
That you don't understand this is, at best, terrible ignorance and at worst smacks of prejudice and yellow journalism.
Would you post a list of names and addresses for persons known to be gay? (people might want to know.) Would you post a list of names and addresses for persons returning from military service? (people might want to know). The point is that nobody, in any of the examples, has committed any crime so I wonder again WHY you would feel the need to spotlight any of them.
Sincerely
Mr. Dale V. Hawley
[March 11, 2007 5:03 PM]
david hinaSorry Christian,
Per my previous post asking you to make you address public...
Did not realize you had already posted your address.
David Hina
[March 11, 2007 5:09 PM]
David HinaRegarding "Sunshine Week"
Might have been a better idea to "out" Child molesters, rapists, murderers living amongst us , rather than law abiding CCW holders.
Did you know that as a CCW holder we are required to go through finger printing and an extensive backround check?
Maybe during "Sunshine Week", you should point the light on a more appropriate target.
David Hina
[March 11, 2007 5:11 PM]
MarkYou haven't written anything in opposition to concealed carry, excepting treating CCW holders as if they had some social stain. We wouldn't wear a scarlet letter for you, but thats' okay - you've exposed our shameful sin.
If you aren't bright enough to figure out why gun owners wouldn't want their names and addresses posted in a public forum, I won't spell it out for you.
There are ramifications to this schoolboy stunt that likely go further than you intended. Sucks to be us, huh? I'm sure those consequences were completely unintended, right?
Glad you support widespread public exposure of personal information, Mr. Trejbal. Quite a few talented people, in many fields, now have incentive to assist you with that.
[March 11, 2007 5:24 PM]
Pissed off in StaffordIf I point my gun at someone I am guilty of placing their life in jepordy...
You have done the same with your 'pen' and yet you do not see the harm.
Giving out information to allow criminals to make shopping lists is just plain stupid, but may be the RT has just joined the ranks of the supermarket tabliods - its not about news, it is about sales, shock value, and how you can push your agenda.
[March 11, 2007 5:44 PM]
Rusty Shackleford : →http://www.vcdl.orgIf I am burglarized and my firearms are stolen, both you and the Roanoke Times will be hearing from my attorney. You Liberals hunt out judges that will give your ilk favorable decisions, I shall do the same.
Educating you to the benefits will do no good, you are set in your ways. Just take note of the happenings to Jim Zumbo, that is the power gun owners have.
[March 11, 2007 5:51 PM]
Bob CavalcanteJust because a lot of things are "public" doens't mean they should necessarily be compiled and published. Before, it was necessary that anyone wanting to find out that info had to do the leg work themselves, pay the costs and that alone was a deterrent to all but the most serious inquiries. Now, along comes a few reporters with "savior" complexes thinking they've done the world a service, when all they've actually done is the legwork for the true criminals.
We need to change the law to protect this information from being published.
Since America is the most litigious nation in the world, I wonder what would happen if a criminal is proven to have used this handy list in the commission of a crime?
[March 11, 2007 5:51 PM]
Patrick RMr. Trejal,
I am curious what facet of "open government" you are trying to celebrate here; all you've done is find a group of people with clean criminal records and valuables in the home, then publish their addresses for all to see.
What have you shown about open government?
[March 11, 2007 5:53 PM]
Bob CavalcanteOh, by the way, Christian. Have you ever heard of the Virginia Citizen's Denfense League (www.VCDL.org)?
You will!!!
[March 11, 2007 6:05 PM]
EdWait, Christian, don't shut off Josh too quickly. Tell us honestly here, what is the article/issue about?
First sentence in the article: "Today is the start of Sunshine Week, the annual week in which we reflect on the importance of open government and public records. "
Later: "To *illustrate the open government process*, I set out to acquire permit lists for the New River Valley." (emphasis mine)
But in re: to Josh's question on open government lists, "Josh, I have no interest in following you off on this unrelated subject. If you have something substantive to add to the *conversation about concealed handgun permits*, feel free to do so."
Was the article misleading in that it purported to be more about "open government" than the specific instance of concealed handgun permits?
Let's just be honest here. You found a way to poke some people in the eye through the use of something completely legal, and possibly even a bit controversial. In fact, you knew it would be: "I can hear the shocked indignation of gun-toters already". Many other pieces of the article further confirm your distaste for those that may carry concealed for protection.
So, is the article about open government and records? If so, let's talk about Josh's more than fair question that relates the "open government" to potential dangers of releasing some of that personal info. It should be obvious from the response here that people feel that is a genuine topic of discussion.
Other than that, I assume that the article was simply a taunting jab with a stick...which is fine. You have the column and that's your business. Of course, that's uncharacteristic of someone trying to bring a touch of class to the region (going back to Nov 2006, "Southwest Virginia is for haters").
[March 11, 2007 6:16 PM]
on the listWonderful. After years of moving around, not having a phone or bills in my name, and such so as to conceal my location from a group of rather nasty hoodlums, I find my name and address on this site along with the fact I have a concealed handgun license. Yes, they could have used FOIA to get it if they somehow thought to check gun permits. But now all they have to do is Google. Oh well, I guess it's time to move again. Thanks a lot Mr. Trejbal.
And, no, the knowledge that I'm armed will not scare them away. They'll just set an ambush like when they nearly killed me before. Or do a drive-by shooting.
[March 11, 2007 6:21 PM]
St. RemyMethinks Josh in his deliciously understated way just delivered a howitzer shot of a dig while making his point at the same time.
[March 11, 2007 6:22 PM]
Jesse KlintMr. Trejal,
We appear to be neighbors. I hope you checked your list so that you are aware of who you have living around you? I know I sure wish I had a list of reporters who live near me so that I can be better informed.
You have done the citizens of this area a great disjustice by writing such dribble.
[March 11, 2007 6:26 PM]
Dustin EwardFlorida (where I live), and other states, have often adopted private databases of Concealed Carry Permit holders for exactly this reason. Clowns like Mr. Trejbal seem intent on doing as much harm to people he doesn't like as possible.
No mention of the fact that one can Carry Openly with no permit at all. If you're irritated by the behavior of immature socialist brats that want to destroy the lives of everyone who disagrees with them; get rid of your permit and just carry openly.
I, personally, find the idea of asking permission to do soemthign that is supposed to be a Human Right, to be downright Treasonous. The fact that such a list exists to begin with is just sick. It's only use? To give Imperialists a way to oppress and harass people they don't like.
Way to go Mr. Trejbal. Fortunately, we're better people than you are, and won't suggest that the Press be regulated and/or harassed for exercising it's rights as you do to us.
I would still request that this 'reporting' agency respect We the Peoples' privacy and recognize that publishing this list does far more harm than good. then again, I suppose that was the hole point, eh?
We Floridians learned this problem and took care of it a few years ago. Sadly, we had to endure over 20 years of prejudice and harassment before it was rectified. Hopefully, Virginia will learn quicker.
Stripping out the SSN is pointless. Identities (and guns) can be stolen with far less.
[March 11, 2007 6:32 PM]
LIVID IN MONTGOMERY COYou have just put a lot of us in jeopardy by posting our names and addresses. YOU NEED TO BE FURTHER EDUCATED ON WHAT CONCEALED MEANS!!!!!
First off, we are legal law abiding citizens who have had criminal background checks and a lot of us fingerprinted, so where do you get off making us out to be the bad guy? There are a lot of us who have had extensive training and we all stress the safety aspect of firearms. You need to take one of the local courses to see to what extent the law abiding concealed carry permit holders have to go throught to get their permits.
As far as I am concerned you have ABUSED THE FIRST AMENDMENT by writing your article as you have put a lot of innocent people in jeopardy.
YOU ARE EGNORANT OF THE FACTS!!!!!!
[March 11, 2007 6:46 PM]
Dustin EwardHe is not ignorant. His mis-information is intentional and deliberate. He and the publishing agency are fully aware of the damage this does to the people they don't like. That is the very reason they do it.
Anti-freedom activists love to assist the criminal element whenever possible. They are, after all, one and the same. Helping gangs find people they have attacked/assaulted in the past, is WAY at the top of their list of things to do. This is one of the many ways that they do it. Psycho Ex's with restraining orders LOVE people like Mr. Trejbal. And he knows it. His kind is all too common among our once free nation.
[March 11, 2007 7:05 PM]
Dustin Eward : →http://www.opencarry.orgPosting again just to add the URL to my name.
Visit http://www.opencarry.org and http://www.packing.org, we don't bite.
I've been planning a trip up to VA just for the experience of being in a State that still recognizes (at least a few parts of) the Constitution as Law.
Lets have an Open Carry Parade right down the middle of Mr. Trejbal's street. Ha! :-)
[March 11, 2007 7:06 PM]
Keith Light JrIt is one thing to have open records, should any of us want this information all we have to do is ask for it. It's another all together to publish it for everyone to see for no reason other than you have a column and can. Abuse of office is a slippery slope my friend.
Since you have looked into violent crime, take a look at Washington DC. An absolute ban on firearms of all kinds, one of the most violent cities in the country. Maybe a little conceal/carry would do them some good? I know your answer already, but lets see how native NRV's feel.
[March 11, 2007 7:14 PM]
AustenThis article seems to exist only to frustrate some of the good people here in Virginia.
In case you don't know, Christian.. this IS anti-gun of you. Singling out any community and writing sarcastically about their beliefs shows a lack of respect for their views. It definitely puts you on one side of the fence, and certainly not on the same side as the people who have replied here.
[March 11, 2007 7:19 PM]
John PapianouNot too bright, all the people who can't defend themselves have been identified.
For the gutsy criminal looking for guns this genius tells them were to find them.
Is this guy comparing SEX OFFENDERS with LEGAL GUN OWNERS?
[March 11, 2007 7:40 PM]
WellmanWell I guess I can use my last name and you or a criminal can guess which one it is.
You asked; if we are armed what do we have to worry about? Well let's see. Virginia only allows us to conceal one weapon which has to be a handgun. Now we are out of the house shopping and the other guns are sitting at home.
Some meth head uses your nice little list and breaks into our house.
Are you prepared for any deaths that might follow your article? Any gun stolen will end up in a felon's hands. I pray to God this does not happen, if it does I hope you can live with yourself.
[March 11, 2007 7:52 PM]
Jim Mullins : →http://www.wvcdl.org/Thanks to you:
1. Every criminal in search of guns & ammo will know exactly which homes to hit.
2. Violent criminals planning their crimes in advance will be able to determine with greater certainty whether their intended victims are armed.
3. Criminals seeking retribution against witnesses who have tried to get away from these thugs and have sought to protect themselves by obtaining a CHP may now be able to locate and attempt to attack these individuals.
4. Maybe Virginia (and my home state of West Virginia) will finally join the overwhelming majority of states that have closed public access to CHP records to protect the privacy of law-abiding citizens who merely seek a legal means of providing for our personal protection.
BTW, although I am merely in law school and not a lawyer yet, I cannot imagine any sane lawyer would have told you that publishing the full street addresses of CHP holders online was a good idea. When the dtaabase you have made available online for anonymous public access is used to perpetrate the types of crimes described in paragraphs 1-3 above, do not be surprised when the lawsuits start pouring in.
[March 11, 2007 8:01 PM]
Sharon S.Sir, you state in your article that some people have a CCW to protect themselves against a violent ex-lover, but then see fit to publish their addresses? Who are you trying to HELP with this information?
[March 11, 2007 8:12 PM]
FernChristian,
I don't feel it is a responsible use of the information gathered. Concealed carry is something most choose to keep as a personal secret, for those situations we all hope never happen to us or loved ones. The records are public for many of the reasons stated in your article, but pushing the information to print just because the FOIA works... well, seems asinine.
[March 11, 2007 8:13 PM]
Carl BMr. Trejbal:
I have some ideas for future articles and lists to go with them:
- repeat domestic violence offenders
- felons convicted of carrying a firearm
- rapists
- convicted of assulting a police officer
Perhaps parrents would like to know if the parrent driving their child home from school is on one of these lists...
[March 11, 2007 8:17 PM]
Not Wanted to be foundThanks. I've moved twice to get away from a violent ex. Now I have to move again. I really appreciate you publishing my address. Gee, thanks.
[March 11, 2007 8:23 PM]
Concerned in CburgYou people have to be some of the most ignorant people I have heard of. I hope your News Paper gets what it deserves regarding this issue. I want be buying your Newspaper anymore. The guy that has took this upon himself has ruined his career I bet. You people have put alot of people in jeapordy.
[March 11, 2007 8:25 PM]
MichaelThis reporter with a self importance left wing liberal agenda. Please post his earnings, DOB and SSN and see how he feels. This idiot should know that there are law enforcement officers, bodyguards, and women who have been stalked who also have handgun permits. I would like to see him fired!
[March 11, 2007 8:39 PM]
Kyle ConcordYou, sir, may have just endangered the lives of a significant portion of the population. I know it is easy to sit there smug in your office sipping your 8$ latte and playing journalist, but this kind of thing is for keeps. People get a CHL for a variety of reasons, and some of the reasons is that they witnessed crimes or were themselves victims and have people who would like to see them dead.
I can't even believe this. You disgust me.
[March 11, 2007 8:40 PM]
Matt TaylorTrejbal, you idiot. You just put in danger a lot people who will now get burgularized by individuals who cannot purchase a firearm in a legal fashion.
Just because someone else made a mistake and the data is not well guarded is not an excuse for you to abuse the data. It's still wrong for you to publish it regardless of your pathetic rationalizations.
For once, just once, think of someone else instead of just your pathetic job.
[March 11, 2007 8:41 PM]
MooreTrejbal you're a worm. Either that or you are just too thick to realize what you have done. Either way you've done damage to law-abiding citizens for some shock value.
As I sit here looking at my carry permit that I am turning in this week (I live in the NRV) I'm livid that you targeted an already over-scrutinized group of Americans. You exposed people who have already been under the microscope just to use their 2A right. You've done no good here.
Don't forget to update and repost the list in a month or two. Another law-abiding, non-felon, US Citizen, Honorably Discharged Veteran, former LEO will be on the list for you to expose for giggles.
I'll be sure to call your boss and explain how happy I am with your excellent reporting. I'll make sure others do as well. I'll never spend another dime on The Roanoke Times as long as you work there.
[March 11, 2007 8:41 PM]
ToddOnce again, another liberal hit piece by someone mentioning law-abiding gun owners and sex offenders in the same breath. Good job there champ, be prepared for lawsuits if anyone comes to harm because of your irresponsible action.
[March 11, 2007 8:42 PM]
Matt G.Whats next?
Are you going to force all Jews to wear the Star of David?
Oh wait, that was tried before too.
Thanks for making me and my wife's personal info public. I'm sure now if our house is broken into because of your little vain attempt at a publicity stunt you will be hearing from my lawyer.
[March 11, 2007 8:44 PM]
Ron WamplerYet another reason never to trust "journalists"
They will sell you to the first bidder.
[March 11, 2007 8:57 PM]
Craig DilleyTypically what happens is that when enough of your outlet's advertisers threaten to pull out - these lists vanish.
Violating regular people's privacy is one thing - but the people that pay your bills? That's a wee bit different.
Good luck on your next career!
[March 11, 2007 8:58 PM]
GaryMr Trejal:
Your article came up linked on a firearms forum that frequent. I was delighted to see someone helpfully posted your personal information to their response. It was also delightful that this information was also posted at the firearms forum as well.
You might be able to push this same tired anti-gun agenda in the pages of your newspaper but this is the internet, where your readers can do more than write a "letter to the editor".
You're dancing on a worldwide stage here sir, and don't be surprised if a large portion of your audience doesn't appreciate your agenda driven tripe.
[March 11, 2007 9:01 PM]
David M. FortierPosting such information was really in nobody's best interest except for the author and his agenda. You really should have thought before you did such a stupid thing.
David M. Fortier
Field Editor
Primedia Outdoors
[March 11, 2007 9:02 PM]
CliffSo now that you think it is a good idea to post everyone’s (including mine) who possesses a Virginia CHP? There could be many reasons someone has a CHP, from a battered wife to someone who has a high risk job to the average citizen who refuses to be an easy victim. There are many form of public record that can be posted, and I find it surprising how inconsiderate you are of others security. Trust me; if someone comes to my house to try and steal my weapons or harm my family, you are going to be right on top of my list of individuals responsible for it. I now have you full name and address and it will go on any report of crime on my property.
Do you feel it is OK to post anyone’s name and address (including yours) that exercises their 1st Amendment rights? If not, then why should everyone know who is exercising their 2nd Amendment rights?
I would also like to know why you are trying to vilify one of Virginia’s most law abiding groups of individuals?
By the way I am retired military combat veteran and currently becoming a Law Enforcement Officer and will continue to put my life on the line to defend the citizens lives and rights of this great Nation (including your’s) even though you think I have no right to privacy. I wonder how that makes you feel?
[March 11, 2007 9:04 PM]
EliIts a damn shame your dont seem to care about child molestors or illegal immigrants. But God forbid someone carry a firearm for protection.
Maybe you should be more concerned about criminals and less concerned about those who wish to defend themselves from those criminals.
I see our liberal indoctrination camps are working full steam ahead, and you've taken the bait hook line and sinker.
[March 11, 2007 9:18 PM]
Kevin LightI have sent Bill OReilly a email. I hope others will join me.oreilly@foxnews.com
[March 11, 2007 9:20 PM]
Paul FraserC. Trejbal, You say time and time again you are not speaking for or against Concealed Carry, yet if you read your article the tone and language you use is specifically designed to cast a bad light on citizens who chose to exercise their PROTECTED RIGHT to keep and bear arms. You hint that if you make a person with concealed carry angry they might hurt you. You equate them to sexual offenders. I think that it is absolutely ignorant on your part as a journalist to think that the readers are so stupid they won't see what you write between the lines.
As far as Josh's argument about the list of homosexuals, you chose not to address, it is exactly the same type of thing as a list of concealed carry people being published. It is as much a persons right to be homosexual as it is a persons right to carry a firearm. So maybe you should take a moment and explain why a list of homosexuals is different. Aside from the cop out that you'll give that there are no licenses for homosexuals.
[March 11, 2007 9:24 PM]
CultureJammerhttp://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum7/HTML/027351.html
Criminals are already discussing how to use this. Way to go.
[March 11, 2007 9:25 PM]
Xrlq : →http://xrlq.com/Christian, your snotty article and your gross invasion of law abiding citizens' privacy requires one of two actions:
1. Explain what the hell kind of good it was supposed to do for anyone other than the violent ex-lovers some CHP holders were trying to get away from (and whose violent exes now know where they live) or
2. Admit that you are an irresponsible jerk who has no business being a journalist.
[March 11, 2007 9:28 PM]
LarryThis is irresponsible reporting at its worst. Just because the information is available from the State doesn't mean it should be published online. You've just made the jobs of criminals looking for places to steal guns very easy. Thanks.
[March 11, 2007 9:31 PM]
JohnYou guys and gals are wasting your "breath"; you have Christian's address, he likes sharing things in public, so go visit him and discuss this issue in person. I am sure he would like to have as many of you as possible to his place or work at any time ya'all feel convenient!
YOU have nothing to be ashamed of - you atleast have the cajones to make your security your OWN responsibility - unlike many like Cristian who depend on others to keep him safe. Be open, be noisy and boisterous, and HAVE FUN - its Sunshine week!
[March 11, 2007 9:31 PM]
DaleThrough your efforts to "manufacture" news where their was none (appealing to unfounded fears), you have endangered the property and safety of untold numbers of citizens; however, there is a way, Mr. Trejbal, that the citizens of our fair state can avoid making your list. They can "open carry" which does not require a permit and is legal in Virginia. How would that sit with your liberal editors knowing that you contributed to that cause.
[March 11, 2007 9:39 PM]
Name Withheld this timeJournalists have fought for years to keep informants personal info a secret, and you wish to expose law abiding citizens to all sorts of bedlam.
You proved you are no journalist, no friend of law abiding Americans, and scum in general.
Someone will be hurt by your reckless publishing of this info, I just hope the brunt of responsibility goes full circle to where it belongs, you.
[March 11, 2007 9:45 PM]
Barent K ParslowSadly, while you think you've done a great thing (and equated people with a background check to pedophiles in the process) it isn't so. Likely your choice to do this can put somebody at risk.
Once upon a time I was responsible for and the only access to a sizable number of government owned fully-auto weapons. I was threatened and told to get my CHP and did. Having that CHP, unknown to the possible assailants, made me more secure. It made those who might have been threatened by those weapons I safeguarded more secure. I don't suppose you considered that.
But there is the opposite result as well. Anyone not appearing on the list is an easier target for the criminal. I think that you think that criminals, particularly stalkers, can't read, can't use a computer and can't plan past their current meal. I hope you're right but that's not my experience.
Some people foolishly believe that everything that can be said must be said. Sometimes, it is better to keep your mouth shut even if you can say something, even if you have the knowledge to accurately report it. There is always somebody ready, willing, and able to take advantage of the blabber-mouth.
I might also add that you managed to insult a large number of people when you imply, without substantiation, that CHP holders can't manage their emotions sufficiently so that others must be cautious around them. In fact, I think the statistics bear out that there are more criminal acts by police officers than by CHP holders in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Perhaps you could research that.
My name, correctly spelled, is provided so that you can avoid me if you so choose.
Sincerely,
Barent K. Parslow
SFC, USA Ret.
[March 11, 2007 9:47 PM]
Bill JacksonI believe that all newspaper reporters addresses and personal information along with police officers should be made public so that they can also be open to harassment from deranged lunatics. It is not anybody's business where a gun permit holder resides. I would also like to see driver's license information made public and I know that won't happen. Virginia is far safer than Maryland and a lot of it is the bad people may get shot by a good person in Va.
[March 11, 2007 9:50 PM]
WiLYou say you did this so that you could show how nice open information is...not about gun ....what ever guns were the issue..cant say if it a personal issue or a political issue wuth you...you want the ratings...and while the information is open to anyone you just made it easier for the dumber criminals...just because you have a hammer does not mean you should treat everything like a nail...I hope your proud...and I hope nothing ever bad happens to you...but if something ever does...I hope a ccw holder is there to save you...
[March 11, 2007 9:50 PM]
Bruce GarrisMr. Trejal,
What a low and despicable exposé you have written removing the word “concealed” from CCW. You have demonstrated the difference in the criminal element and respectable citizens in that criminals will not be on this list you obtained with no effort at all. You have performed no service of value for any citizen of this state, but you have provided an invaluable service for the uninformed criminal element of locating available guns and ammo – right in their neighborhood.
If you were truly a “working” journalist you would locate the names and addresses of:
Criminals in possession of weapons
Operators of crack and drug houses
Lists of things that would be of value to the police and respectable citizens.
Or, if you want to continue on your current path you could run an exposé on people who do not have an active alarm system, people who leave a door key hidden outside of their house, and people who are infirm. Oh, I know a good one for this line of “trash” journalism, the names ages and addresses of all children in the state. All of those lists would provide useful list for your “special group” of intended readers.
[March 11, 2007 9:51 PM]
W HoalSince you are going to all the trouble to identify this group of people and imply that there may be a risk involved with these persons being in the neiborhood I wonder if you could publish info as to the number of crimes the folks have been involved in. I would also like to know the number of times a concealed weapon has been successfully used to stop a crime. I must say that I think this is a one sided hatchet piece.
[March 11, 2007 9:52 PM]
Ryan W.Mr. Trejal,
You have put 135,789 individuals at risk by broadcasting their addresses to the world. I can't fathom the number of people you have infuriated buy you lack of tact and Moral Values.
Your Paper made an error in judgment by letting this article out, as well as hiring you as a "Reporter" I hope you never have to hide from someone who wishes you harm. Your options are now limited due to your irresponsible actions.
You lost a lot of future business for your little newspaper. The repercussions from your actions have only begun.
This will be the last time I have anything to do with the Roanoke Times.
[March 11, 2007 9:53 PM]
M LawyerNo need to repeat all that has previously been said except to agree that Mr. Trejal is an irresponsible, self-serving idiot. Certainly, the Roanoke Times could, with a little effort, find smart and responsible writers. Thanks for the motivation to make the largest contribution I've ever made to the NRA. The old adage about biting the hand that feeds you applies. I suggest that readers of the Roanoke Times take their subscription and advertising dollars and contribute them to an organization that won't "bite" them.
[March 11, 2007 9:53 PM]
Kevin R.Considering the fact that the CHP holders are the law-abiding citizens in the Commonwealth of Virginia, comparing us with sex-offenders is ridiculous! That registry exists to citizens can keep themselves informed of those who break the law, not those who follow it.
[March 11, 2007 9:54 PM]
Aaron G. SwordWhat a sorry thing to do in the name of news. This alleged reporter can't think of anything better to report on than this? With all of the real news that is out there for anyone who cares to find it, it amazes me that you pick this tired topic, that has been done before. You aren't breaking any ground here, step off your high horse and get a clue. It's no wonder with stunts like this, that this paper gets worse and worse with each passing day.
Great job giving the criminals out there a hand too. You seems to think that CHP holders are the bad guys, and yet you help the real bad guys?
It's sad that you felt this was appropriate, and more so even that the meager Roanoke Times leadership went along with it.
[March 11, 2007 9:55 PM]
Herb S.Mr. Trejbal,
It appears as usual that those that are on the anti gun rights side tend to slant the stats of free states verses police states.
CHP holders have had background checks and in some cases fingerprinted and are law abiding citizens. Please search for and post the statistic that shows where CHP holders are the perps in these cases from the FBI data you have researched.
Let's post all the criminals names and addresses in our areas so that we are able to know who we are working with, carpooling with etc...
Respectfully,
H.S.
[March 11, 2007 9:57 PM]
Jim PayneThis another example of an educated idiot trying to make a name for himself at the expense of others!!!
I suggest you use your talent reporting about people like you!
[March 11, 2007 10:00 PM]
Dave from IowaShed a little light on Christian Trejbal.
So this philosophy major from MN (excuse me, Cleveland & Oregon)
http://www.philosophy.umn.edu/people/Alumni/gradalumni.html
has decided to set up shop in Virginia and tell everyone just where they are going wrong...
http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/trejbal/wb/91155
and not only that he is telling the rest of the country they don't know WTF they are talking about, especially when it comes to comples things like taxes and such...
http://linderfairtax.house.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=InNews.View&ContentRecord_id=87&State_id=0&Issue_id=0
Of course his pals agree...
http://openthegovernment.org/article/articleview/195/1/14?TopicID=
So let's go with this free info thing. How do the Trejbal's of Cleveland feel about junior playing Mr. Information?
http://www.zabasearch.com/query1_zaba.php?sname=Trejbal%20&state=OH&ref=$ref&se=$se&doby=&city=&name_style=1
This shouldn't be a shock as Cleveland newspapers have already published lists of CCW permit holders.
What's this you say?
Christian is mooching off someone else's idea?
10-4
The Jayson Blair of Roanoke has done gone and made a name for hisself by ripping off another papers shtick.
Bravo!
Hey, if it sells papers... do this, pick up this Sunday's edition and let ALL the advertisers know tha you don't take kindly to having your personal info printed up in the paper they advertise in, and the advertisers will pay the price by losing customers.
Papers are on the ropes anyway, and the last thing they need is some wingding playing junior crusader with their customers.
Vote with your wallet, it's the only thing that papers care about.
[March 11, 2007 10:01 PM]
JackSimply put, you endangered the lives of thousands of people. I'm hoping that the lawsuits fall on you like rain. Mine will be one of many, I'm sure.
[March 11, 2007 10:04 PM]
JayTrejal should be fired.
[March 11, 2007 10:05 PM]
RLBYou are equating legal concealed handgun permit holders with child molesters? You must know by now that ALL CHP holders are vetted by the FBI. They are the most law abiding of the law abiding.
You have done a great disservice to the legal CHP holders in the state of Virginia.
God forgive you if this leads to an attack because you put the info out there.
Right now EVERYONE needs to call their legislator and urge a law to not permit such abuse. Exercising your second amendment right is not a crime.
[March 11, 2007 10:06 PM]
Gary JeterI am deeply offended by the decision of the newspaper to publish an online list of the personal information of Virginia's law-abiding citizens in the form of a supposed expose' of concealed handgun permit holders.
Criminals have no right to know whether I hold such a permit, let alone where I live!!!
Is it the intention of your newspaper to provide criminals with information of where they might go to steal a gun?!!!
Mr. Trejbal's scurrilous action in posting this list must be remedied. I expect the Roanoke Times to apologize to Virginia's law-abiding citizens for this terrible insult.
[March 11, 2007 10:06 PM]
Turner AshbyLet's publish online the government listed names of all elderly who receive government social security checks to close out Sunshine week. Then, let's publish the government database of names of all those receiving medicaid. These are open knowledge sources.
[March 11, 2007 10:06 PM]
PaulMr. Trejbal,
Thanks for making the job of the criminal easier. Why don't you just print out the list and drop it off at the county jail. What are you thinking? Jeopardizing the safety of others to prove your own point is reckless at least. I wonder how many suits will follow once it is determined that you facilitated a burglary of a residence - or worse! A sad day for "journalism" in VA!
[March 11, 2007 10:09 PM]
Vinny TI am appalled that the Roaanoke Times has allowed this guy to publish such a story. The can of worms has been opened my friend, A public apology is now in order.
[March 11, 2007 10:09 PM]
Brian CIf the idea of law-abiding citizens in the NRV carrying concealed handguns makes people like the author worried, just imagine how he'll wet his panties when he learns that the NRV is full of legal machinegun owners!
Machinegun registrations are considered to be privileged tax documents, so the faint of heart will just have to lay awake at night worrying that his next door neighbor may own one.
Sweet dreams Mr Trejab
[March 11, 2007 10:11 PM]
Mike AustinNow that you have made your own personal point by comparing legal ccw permit holders to registered convicted sexual predators,
PLEASE PRINT THE LIST OF NAMES AND ADDRESSES OF THOSE REGISTERED CONVICTED SEXUAL PREDATORS!
Only then will you have done something worthwhile.
P.S.: If you ever are in trouble and I can help, please introduce yourself so I can reholster and go about my business!
[March 11, 2007 10:13 PM]
Walt LMr Trejbal,
The folks that obtain the permits do it legally and have a background check. The criminals who go around shooting,robbing,killing cops as you stated and raping do not obtain permits to carry concealed! They do it regardless of the laws, regardless if the entire country banned guns completely. Since you want to be a respected journalist, why not do some research,produce a list of law abiding citizens, who have obtained a permit, then suddenly cracked and when on a shooting rampage.
[March 11, 2007 10:16 PM]
Not ApplicableChristian,
This has to be one of the most irresponsible things I have ever seen. I am currently away on business but my wife and two young kids are home without me and my handgun to protect them from someone who might use this list maliciously. I implore your site to take this down now. I will hold you and the roanoke times personally responsible for any malicious use of this list. I hope the courts will too.
[March 11, 2007 10:18 PM]
RandyPapers here in Ohio pulled this same type of stunt after being explicitly warned by the Legislature. They earned a new law restricting their access to the CHL database here. Hope the Virginia legislature is taking note.
So tell me, are you going to do anything with this info other than try to intimidate others from getting a CHL? Like maybe use it to see if a shooting suspect has a CHL? Odds are the majority won't, but highlighting that fact would undermine your obvious agenda with this article, despite your disingenuous invocation of the sacred First Amendment.
This was a grandstand play for a cheap shot at CHL holders and gun owners in general, your smarmy "disclaimers" in the article notwithstanding.
Government should operate in as transparent mode as possible, and journalist do have a role in keeping them honest. But stunts like this only undermine support for your legitimate role in society.
[March 11, 2007 10:18 PM]
GregTrejal,
I certainly hope that you do not apply for a CCW Permit, I do not believe that you posses the morals required for such responsibility. Those holders you have singled out in our great state are citizens with the up most morals. Doing something so foolish and without disregard for others is purely socialistic. I certainly hope that the Roanoke News will pay attention to what appears to be happening. God help the Commonwealth of Virginia.
[March 11, 2007 10:20 PM]
Rusty Shacklefordwhy don't you publish a list of names and addresses of criminals who were let out of jail after serving light sentences for committing guns crimes?
[March 11, 2007 10:20 PM]
Mike WrightI wrote this "gentleman" personally, and received the response that I expected. I will not reprint it as I, unlike others, have some respect for people's privacy.
Legal or not - posting this list was WRONG. The analogy to a "shopping list" for criminals is a valid one.
It's high time people stopped standing for these sorts of things. Gun owners - don't go to the back of the bus! Gun owners are not second class citizens - and it's about time we make our feelings known.
My wife always looks at me funny when I say the liberals are mentall ill. Not so much now. This proves my point.
Molon Labe!
[March 11, 2007 10:20 PM]
Kevin K.Isn't it ironic that the 2nd Ammendment guarantees the 1st.
Mr. Trejal, your "I'm one of the Sheeple" t-shirts is on its way.
[March 11, 2007 10:20 PM]
Harlan MI live in CT, am a member of VCDL and follow the 2A activity in VA very closely. I see no good reason why the names of CCW holders in VA should ever have been published. Unlike sex offenders, CCW holders have committed no crime by obtaining a permit. The publishing of the names is irresponsible journalism at it worst. The scoislist newspapers in New York do the same thing to people, most of whom do not even have a carry endorsement (they can only possess at home, target practice or hunt). These persons who decide to carry or obtain a permit are just exercising their rights. If they carry openly, someone might notice that they are carrying. If they are carrying concealed, no one may ever know or even care. As a journalist, I think it would be in the better interest of the readership to shed light on the morons whom are coming over here to blow up our families. That is news. CCW holders addresses is not.
[March 11, 2007 10:21 PM]
Dusty MeadorDear Mr. Trejbal,
You are just telling the criminals who the easy prey is. I'm not going to put the screws to you like some of these other opinions have. I'm going to ask you this-
Are you on that list?
If I was a bad guy looking for an easy target, your list will be of invaluable help. I can now pick out families, such as yours. If the name isn't on your list, then my chances would be better that there aren't any guns.
Do you feel safer letting the bad guys know who may NOT be armed?? How well will you sleep at night knowing you just led the bad guys to households that are most likely unarmed??
Because of idiots like you, I tell all my friends to get a permit whether they have or want to own a gun!!
I guess common sense isn’t a consideration to Editors when they hire Reporters. You just endangered more non-permit holders than you did permit holders, in my opinion.
[March 11, 2007 10:24 PM]
JamesThis is unbelievable. An Orwellian invasion of the privacy of those he doesn't agree with.
I'm simply stunned at something so irresponisble from someone who values his own agenda more than the privacy and safety of some of *the most law abiding citizens in Virginia* I'm stunned that this is a newspaper in AMERICA doing this.
Open Government does not mean open access to citizens.
Freedom of Information does not mean Freedom of MY information.
I'm cancelling my weekend subscription to this newspaper.
[March 11, 2007 10:29 PM]
DonThank you for your irresponsible journalism. I will be cancelling my subscription to the Roanoke Times and doing my small part to ensure the newspaper is not rewarded for outright stupidity.
There are many good reasons for having a CHP. Mine is simple. When I go to the range to sport shoot, if I have my gun in a bag, it is concealed, and without a permit I am breaking the law. The alternative is to put my gun on my dash in plain sight. Is that the alternative you would like!
[March 11, 2007 10:36 PM]
ChrisWow,
Thanks for putting my family and I at risk of burglary.
Would you post a list of women who have had abortions? Well, it's legal to have an abortion. What about a list of folks who are of a particular religion?
Concealed Carry License holders have gone through a background check and training yet you classify CCW holders as child molesters. You have posted a list of folks who are good citizens and who are willing to protect themselves and (hopefully) those around them, why is this news? The fact that the Roanoke Times posted this database means that it is willing to go to extremes to force their agenda on others and truly MAKE NEWS.
You and the paper are putting law abiding citizens at risk for NO GAIN other than page hits. You all should be ashamed.
[March 11, 2007 10:40 PM]
BrianYou Mr. Trejbal are what politicos call an issue-weasel. You have a point to make, and who cares if making that point gets people hurt or attacked, just so long as you get to make your point. Why don't you go and publish each and every security weakness at nuclear power plants for terrorists? Why don't you list all the playground addresses for pedophiles. Your smug little editorial was obvious with its intent, to make it known you don't agree with the right of people to carry and own guns.
Guess what Einstein, for every young lady who wanted to escape an abusive husband and had to get a gun to protect herself. . .you just gave that abusive husband a roadmap to his ex's home. What you've done, is tantamount to putting a gun into the hand of rapists, murders and abusers and driving them to our homes.
I'd normally say that any harm which results to CCW owners from your list being published would be blood on your hands, but I honestly think those words would be wasted on you. I'm willing to bet you don't see a thing wrong with placing innocent people in harms way. THAT is what is truly sad. Your ego and your desire to make a point are more important then peoples safety and their lives.
I honestly hope that nobody does get robbed, or their homes broken into, or murdered or raped. Had I published that list and my action cause somebody to suffer any of the above, I’d feel horrible and incredible responsible for their deaths.
But hey, so long as you get to make your point and see your editorial in print. . . right?
[March 11, 2007 10:40 PM]
MaxI cannot believe how irresponsible you are! An open and vigorous debate on all political issues, including our second amendment rights to keep and bear arms, is part of our American culture and is the foundation upon which our wonderful democracy was founded. But, what you have done is not to invite an open debate. Rather, what you have done is to publicly disclose personal information of individuals who did not come willingly to the table. What harm might you have created, not only to those of us in western Virginia, but across the entire state? How many calls might we now receive from others who hold such liberal left wing attitudes? How many knocks at the door might we now receive? How many of us may now be potentially harmed by your irresponsible actions. While I abhor your actions and hold you in the highest levels of contempt, as an agent of the Roanoke Times, my anger in having my personal information shared in such an unprofessional and thoughtless way is equally shared with it. As a consequence of your reckless actions (and the complicity of the Roanoke Times in allowing the database to be published) and agreeing with others who have posted, tomorrow we will cancel our subscription to the Roanoke Times. While the action of one will not “break” the paper, perhaps if all those identified by you did the same, a greater financial consequence on the paper may be felt.
[March 11, 2007 10:41 PM]
On the ListWould you please pull the website down? Enough damage has been done. Or you can wait till the lawyers start calling in the morning. I don't know your age but your obviously not old enough to realize actions have reactions. And you better have the stomach for what you started.
Rory in Toano
[March 11, 2007 10:42 PM]
Edward D JohnsonAs a retired police officer, I cannot tell you how excited I am that you have seen fit to publish my full name and address for all to see. Yes, I have a concealed carry permit. Yes, I have had criminals I helped send to prison tell me when they get out, they have plans for me. My family has also been threatened. Now, thanks to you, it is easy to use my name to find out exactly where I live. Your thoughtfullness will be appreciated by the criminals.
[March 11, 2007 10:47 PM]
Not surprisedI've never heard of you until now. I only read a little of "Southwest Virginia is for Haters" before I lost interest. Most people aren't "haters", but will respond when poked. True "haters" strike out unprovoked at views different than their own, then try to hide behind something legitimate when caught. This article proves you for what you are. You are no different than the child who pulls the wings off flies. There is hope though as most grow out of it. For now take heart that you live in a time and place that tolerates your pokes as well as it does.
[March 11, 2007 10:50 PM]
Christopher Smay : →http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n195/Thor_Grim/8-5-06005web.jpg"On another note, shouldn't knowledge that you are armed scare away the criminals? That used to be an argument for why people should be allowed to carry, but now it seems that carrying is dangerous somehow."- Mr Trejbal's words
Concealed weapons do nothing to "scare" anybody, if they are concealed as they should be. Concealed Weapons are not to be brandished in order to scare or frighten. CCw permit holders are only to present/draw a weapon to protect life in the most dire circumstances, and then only when there is no other choice or exit available.
Comparing law abiding citizens with sex offenders, and implying that somehow these people are the ones to "watch out for", as in at the city council meeting, is preposterous, unfair, and just wrong.
Someday, you may get mugged, or worse, and wish someone with a concealed weapon permit was there to save you.
[March 11, 2007 10:51 PM]
Robert PoseyMr., you missed the point of concealed carry. Before, the bad guys had to guess or think that anyone could be carrying, now? Thank you for your thoughtless and the possible endangerment of a lot of law abiding citizens. This is not a case of the FOIA or the first ammendment for that matter but just bad, poor, or the lack of sound judgement. For whatever reason this posting was to be about, it does show you and the news media that you repersent a light that is not flattering. Just keep in mind, you may have woke another sleeping giant.
[March 11, 2007 10:54 PM]
JeffYou are a real piece of work. Sharon S. made the connection: Thanks to you any victim of life threatening (could be spousal) abuse who has moved to get away from the problem then received a CC permit to protect themselves or their family should the unthinkable arise, now has to move again or live in abject fear. Hopefully they can "get gone" before their abuser catches up with them again. By then you'll be ready to put out some updated records, huh?! Good going Bozo. I hope noone is hurt because of your mental disorder (fear of inanimate objects).
Oh and if I were part of the 98% of Virginians that aren't legally armed when away from my house I'd be extremely ticked that you just let any criminal adept at using the internet know who's NOT armed.
You don't deserve to be a part of this community. Hint, hint.
[March 11, 2007 10:56 PM]
Joe Milkor : →http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum7/HTML/027351.htmlhttp://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum7/HTML/027351.html
Yep here are some scumbags in a forum devoted to "bad ideas" and criminal activity hashing out the points of how to use a CCW permit list to rob and steal. Way to go, idiot.
"Every now and then a newspaper will publish a list of concealed carry permit holders under the guise of "free information." Oddly enough, they don't seem to publish lists of DUI offenders or sex offenders, but that isn't my concern.
Obviously no one would be dumb enough to rob someone face to face when they are likely to be carrying a gun, but it would make a very good shopping list. Some locations don't allow concealed weapons, forcing them to leave it in their car. If you spot their license tag outside one of those locations, a quick smash and search could pay off very well. Also, identifying them out and about would mean you're safe to make a run to their home and go in to see if there are any guns inside."
[March 11, 2007 11:00 PM]
Jay MoranI also sent the following as email to the writer:
"Mr. Trejbal:
I have to say that I disagree with your posting of the CHP database in such an easy to search format on the Internet. I don't particular care if folks know that I concealed carry a handgun. I do care about folks being able to get a list of homes in say Winchester that are very likely to have handguns within and start watching them to see when they are empty and should be burgled.
Again, I disagree with your choice to publish the database, but hopefully more folks will work to make Virginia like Vermont and no longer require permits to concealed carry. Of course that wouldn't be needed if the government could legally keep the information safe from liberation via the FOIA.
Have a good evening,
Jay"
He replied with a cordial note saying that he felt the proper place to take up the discussion was with the state legislature.
[March 11, 2007 11:01 PM]
Jim MartinIt's a good thing that CCW'ers are not as dangerous as you have made them out to be. Why would you do this? You compared CCW'ers to child molesters and rapists and you wonder why they are mad at you. Could you pass the background check? These are some of the most law abiding people in your state.
[March 11, 2007 11:03 PM]
Chris P.I would like to thank you for making public the fact that my father who, after the passing of my mother, lives alone, is a CHL holder. I especially appreciate your efforts to make his home address, which was unpublished, a published one. The public has a right to know this, after all.
Also, a friend, a teacher who was the victim of a violent sexual assault and now chooses to lawfully carry a concealed weapon [not on school property], probably appreciates the easy access you have given past and future assailants to her home address. Should I go into the possible professional ramifications she might now suffer? How about the fact that her present employers can now view her with suspicion? How about the fact that her technologically-savvy students, as well as their parents, now access to what should have been private information and could use it as leverage against her?
Finally, I wish to thank you for serving as a recruitment tool for the VCDL (Va. Citizens' Defense League) at the Roanoke Gun Show this weekend. Smarmy little nebbishes, such as yourself, have long provided ammunition (please excuse the double entendre) for those who seek to preserve and maintain the one right that guarantees all others.
I'll be finishing up law school in a while and will be moving back into the area to set up practice. I would like to say that I cannot wait to make you my special hobby, but you won't be writing for this paper for very long.
Take care, buddy, and thank you so much for your tireless practice of and dedication to the art of yellow journalism.
[March 11, 2007 11:04 PM]
Mike WilsonPut driver's license and addresses online. That should be public record as well. Is it not? And if not why? Stalkers *need* this information!
[March 11, 2007 11:05 PM]
James GriffinNot only are Mr. Trejbal and The Roanoke Times pipsqueaks in journalism land, they're gonna get real journalists furious! Real journalists responsibly use open government records to do a difficult job, and live in terror that some wanna-be journalist will abuse the system. Inevitably, the result is legislation closing more public records. As happened in Florida a few weeks ago when similar abuses of the open public record on concealed carry permit holders occurred there.
I’ll guarantee that The Roanoke Times managing editor has already had to field irate calls from the big guys and gals in real journalism land. I expect those callers are not so polite as to begin the conversation with “You BOZO, do you have any idea how badly you are going to injure computer aided journalism – and all journalism - in this state?” To the Bozos in pipsqueak journalism land, I’ll give you a hint. If you folks ever manage to talk to a real journalist, when they refer to CAR in journalism, they may not be talking automobile.
Also, to the pipsqueaks in journalism land: enjoy your exercise in sunshine week. Because of your irresponsibility, any further sunshine weeks will be severely curtailed.
[March 11, 2007 11:08 PM]
SusanTrejbal abuses the intent of Sunshine laws in the furtherance of his personal agenda. For shame.
Perhaps what we really need is a public registry of journalists and editorial writers; maybe they should all be fingerprinted, backgound-checked, and tested before being allowed to exercise their First Amendment rights.
Roanoke Times, you are a disgrace to the good name of journalism everywhere.
[March 11, 2007 11:09 PM]
Wade BarnhillThere may be a freedom of information. There is also a limit to the use of that information which you have crossed. We will see how smart you really are.
[March 11, 2007 11:11 PM]
SDSAmazing that a "journalist" would print such a list of private information. Although it may be legally available your printing of it has not legitimate purpose other than to show your bias against lawful gun ownership and/or carry.
If you were truly intent upon deterring crime or serving the public interest wouldn't a list of deviant sex offenders have been more appropriate?
I suppose in the end the community is pretty much aligned on the fact that our children should be protected from sexual predators so that list would not have been as controversial and therefore you would not have gotten the readership that this obviously biased and prejudicial article has.
You should be ashamed of yourself for hiding behind the mockery of doing this in the name of public interest and safety.
[March 11, 2007 11:13 PM]
Lenny CutlerThanks for letting the world know about my carry permit.
I suspect you have done a great service...because now 130,000 plus folks are indignant at your attempt to make a name for yourself.
You have exposed an issue that no one has focused upon.
Gun Permits data should not be published without the consent of the Permit holder.
No law currently exists to stop what you did, but guess what...that will quickly change.
I suspect your bravado will have an impact that you never foresaw.
[March 11, 2007 11:14 PM]
Frank AChristian,
First of all, you need to change your name. Your actions do not reflect Christian principles at all.
Secondly, are you out of your little pea-sized mind? How would you like it if another irresponsible "journalist" took a list of names and addresses of people who had purchased jewelry, appliances, electronics, and other expensive items from department stores & other sources and posted it on the internet with YOUR name and home address on it?! Do you have a wife and children at home right now, Christian? Will they be together when one or more strangers decides to go "visit" your home on School Lane? Will you be there to "protect" them? Do you even HAVE the ability to protect yourself and your loved ones? Could you protect yourself out of a wet paper bag? Or will there be only one person at home when they decide pay their "visit"? Who will it be? Who do you care about most? Least? What could happen to them? These are the things that might incessantly go through the mind of a person who already became the victim of a serious crime.
My home in Virginia (at the time) already got broken into once as it is. Almost all my valuables were stolen long before you posted your list for all to see. The perpetrators even looked through numerous personal photographs of the people I care about and I. Are you attempting to help these criminals because you feel sorry for them, Christian? I wish I still lived in that house so I could sue you in the event the house gets broken into again.
I sincerely hope, on behalf of the law-abiding (and government background-checked) citizens on the list you published, and for your pitiful sake, that no innocents get hurt or killed during a home invasion or car break-in, or by a stolen firearm as a result of your actions.
The Veterans Administration got into serious trouble for ACCIDENTALLY losing a multitude of veterans' personal information. And you PURPOSELY give out personal information for all to see? To endanger law-abiding (and government background-checked, mind you) citizens? I can't believe you call yourself a journalist.
Semper fidelis,
F
GySgt, USMC
P.S. You've already done enough damage. I don't need to post my full name and address all over again. You have my email address in case you can come up with an intelligent reply. I seriously doubt it.
[March 11, 2007 11:15 PM]
ConcernedMr. Trejbal,
You write in your article "About 2 percent of Virginians, 135,789 of us, have concealed handgun permits". I note the use of "us" as an inclusive of 135,789 CCW permit holders. Yet you respond in post #23 " Jack, I have never applied for a concealed carry permit". Now sir, I ask, which is it. Would you please clarify the inaccuracies in your statements? I would think a professional reporter such as yourself would be a little more careful in the printed word they put forth.
[March 11, 2007 11:18 PM]
W.T. Marx, Sr. : →http://www.freestatebailbonds.comI am a licensed and registered bail bondsman in Virginia. Anyone wanting my info can find me on the DCJS website… or even on my business website. My business phones and “mailing addresses” are readily available but not my home address for obvious reasons. I have a carry permit by necessity; it is part of my business. When you are in this type of business, you do not get stupid and advertise your home address… even if it is public knowledge… you leave it alone. My family resides in my home and although I am not the least bit concerned about my safety, the safety of my family is foremost in my mind. You have shown a large amount of irresponsibility by publishing permit holders with names and addresses. This may be public knowledge but for you to publish this information to satisfy your column needs can be quite dangerous to persons who make a living and try and keep their families safe and separate from their clientele. Many of the permit holders are very likely in the security or law enforcement business and even though their names are available to the public, these persons do not go around advertising their home addresses. There is an old saying that you obviously are not aware of… “Just because there’s a right… doesn’t make it right.” You have the right of free speech but it is against the law to yell “fire” in a theater. Can you figure that out?
[March 11, 2007 11:21 PM]
C. S. JohnsonAn ill-considered posting reflecting no credit on its author or his newspaper.
[March 11, 2007 11:23 PM]
MikeMr. Christian Trejal
I want to thank you for your article: Shedding light on concealed handguns. You and your editors seem to overlooked that there are responsibilities in exercising your first amendment rights. By your papers posting of CHP holders you have endangered the lives of my family and possibly some with criminal intent now that you have provided them with my name, address and as a source for a handgun. I have a 24/7 military job and am forward deployed. Now my family must obtain and install handgun safes; loosing the readly availability of a handgun for protection and requiring additional protection for my other arms.
Upon my return I intend to seek reembursment from you and your paper for these expenses. Maybe the VCDL, NRA, even the ACLU may have put you out of business before my return .
I look forward to your future coordinating and posting of these FOI lists, EG. estimated incomes of over $250,000, houses over $1,000,000, and not on your list of CHP holders etc.
Please e-mail me on your future articles and lists you intend to publish of citizens exercising their rights.
[March 11, 2007 11:25 PM]
JohnMr. Trejbal, why do you think because convicted sex offenders are listed in an online mapping database I should be as a law abiding citizen? Are you saying by meeting all the requirements to have a concealed weapon I'm in the same group as child molesters?
[March 11, 2007 11:25 PM]
KenYou have hurt a lot of innocent people and helped only those with bad intent. Just because you can does not mean you should.
[March 11, 2007 11:25 PM]
Norman T. TrzaskowskiIt's a shame that fools like Christian Trejbal, and the Roanoke Times can use the constitutional right of free speech to abuse the constitutional right to bear arms. It proves that just because one can write, it doesn't mean one can think!
Comparing law abiding citizens to sex offenders is wrong just plain wrong. Let me explain why, I'll use simple words that even Mr. Trejbal and the Roanoke Times might understand. Sex Offenders have been convicted of a crime (that means they are bad). Having a gun permit is not a crime even in Roanoke (that means that people can legally own one). See that wasn't so hard was it?
I would hope that common sense would make the Roanoke Times to remove this list from it's web site.
[March 11, 2007 11:29 PM]
MikeLast September my income figures and address of employment were published in the Examiner. Now my legal status as a ccw holding gun owner and my home address in your news.
Reporters publish this private and personal information and put families at risk of all levels.
This is not good use of freedom of press.
You and your fellow "reporters" place law abiding families in danger and you should be locked up for your abuses!
This is inexcusable!
I suppose you will now sell my email address!
[March 11, 2007 11:30 PM]
Goaltender66What in the world is wrong with this "newspaper?!?" Doesn't it have a functioning senior editor? How could something like this even be considered in the abstract to be marginally appropriate, let alone actually done?!?
I also like the little dig that Trejbal tried earlier in this thread when he said "so many of [his] critics lack the courage to identify themselve[sic]." Hey...maybe that's because if they identify "themselve" somebody will look up their names in your handy database. Or is it *that* hard to think beyond the immediate consequences of your actions?
This organization should be ashamed of itself for allowing something like this to happen. VA CHP holders are not the problem. These are the people you *want* to have carrying guns. The problem is with self-important "journalists" with an axe to grind enabling criminals to do their dirty work for them. Never mind the innocent people who are put at risk with this, right Trejbal? As long as it sells papers it must be OK.
I'm saying here and now I'm joining any class action suit contemplated and I encourage others on this list to do the same. I further encourage laws making future conduct like this a felony.
[March 11, 2007 11:31 PM]
Chuck NesbyThere ya go, again... Whining!
No one is asking you to voluntarily go through the background checks that law-enforcement officers also voluntarily submit to for purposes of obtaining a CCW permit. Thorough records check, finger print checks with the FBI, some checks even include personal visits to one's residence in the case of Class-II or III permits! Somehow, these background checks and familiarity with firearms, whether one is carrying them or not, makes CCW permit holders a threat comparable to Al Qaeda in Mr. Trejbal's and the newspaper editor's perspective.
I assume their list also includes all the law-enforcement officers also licensed to carry concealed on-duty, off-duty, and undercover as they must logically pose the same threats if one follows the newspaper's line of reasoning.
I'm also sure they have done their research and found supporting data illustrating that most criminals that illegally use firearms must have gotten a CCW permit and passed the rigorous background checks to obtain and carry their weapons. Their research must also be repleat with certified, trained, thoroughly checked CCW holders as being those least to be trusted with a firearm or a permit to carry one! Why else would they want the public at large to coward in fear of law-abiding, honest, well-qualified, good citizens?
I can't thank the newspaper enough for telling the bad guys who all the good guys are that might have cause to someday deter them from criminal acts.
Thank you Mr. Trejbal. With Americans like you, the rest of us Americans just became easier targets for Al Qeada, terrorists, and criminals who will identify and avoid us while preying on those least likely or able to defend themselves.
I'm relieved to know that your house is a "Gun Free Zone." By the way, would you please hang a large sign on your front door so stating so that everyone can know that there are no firearms at or in your residence. It will make all concerned (especially Mr. Trejbal) feel much safer!
[March 11, 2007 11:32 PM]
Nector RiosMr. Christian Trejal, what were you thinking? Thanks to you and your newspaper, the criminal element within 50 miles has a nice shopping list of where to steal guns from. What were you thinking? Are you big enough for an apology and removing your legal liability from the net?
[March 11, 2007 11:33 PM]
Lawrence Marlowe SudduthDSM-IV Definition
Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a lack of regard for the moral or legal standards in the local culture. There is a marked inability to get along