The Roanoke Times: RoundTable

Comments

# 1

[June 26, 2008 9:02 AM]

Henry

Another beautiful day in Blacksburg. I went walking yesterday, basking in warmth and security knowing I was safe from the Sonic Drive-in thanks to the Town Council. It was a great feeling knowing I was safe from reckless human debris hurtling towards culinary suicide in their polar bear killing trash heaps. There were no greasy loudspeakers spewing ear-shattering litanies of deep-fried hunks of murdered animals. The air tasted oddly of freedom.

# 2

[June 26, 2008 9:29 AM]

Blue John

Henry for President!!

# 3

[June 26, 2008 9:47 AM]

DaJuan Hayes : →http://www.sovo.com

I've often heard it said, by those who oppose giving Gay couples the right to marry, that Gay couples can have a lot of the rights married couples have if they just hire a lawyer and draw up a few legal agreements. But as the letter below illustrates, it isn't all that simple. The letter writer, Stephen, is in an online newsgroup I belong to. Stephen wrote of his own experiences:

"In 1993 my partner died, I came home after the memorial service to find the doors on our house bolted shut and the windows boarded up by his family. The police would do nothing. The Judge would do nothing. Even though I had a will, the family contested it and won. I ended up with absolutely nothing. I don't even have a picture of my late partner. My only saving grace is that my own furniture and most of my personal possessions were in storage, otherwise I would have had to start my whole life over. Financially there wasn't much there after his long illness, so the inheritance was of little concern to me.

"But....

"You think a medical power of attorney will give you the rights to see your partner in the hospital? WRONG. I was told by a doctor, then a hospital administrator that while I had the authority to make medical decisions for him, that did not give me unlimited rights to visit him as a spouse would have. I was given long enough to "assess his condition" and to give medical direction, then I was told to leave. My attorney went before a judge to stop that madness and the judge sided with the hospital.

"No, in this society you cannot overcome the legal issues by doing wills and power of attorney documents. It just doesn't work out like it would seem to on paper. These documents are only as powerful as a potentially homophobic judge will enforce them. I want to be able to marry so that these rights and responsibilities are cast in stone and not open to interpretation."

# 4

[June 26, 2008 9:48 AM]

terry

It’s another beautiful day in Roanoke. I went for a walk on my 15 acres knowing it will never be filled with polygamists or married homosexuals. It was so refreshing thinking about how many tax dollars I give to a government operated by two fair, cooperating, level-headed and, most importantly, non-hypocritical parties. I was thankful of all the things I can’t do on my property since these two parties are good enough to steer me clear of danger. I just wish they would protect me more. Maybe they’ll take more of my money and tighten the hug. Maybe they’ll get a few more ideas from the Bible and implement them. Yep, it sure is great losing freedom.

Note: apologies for any grammatical errors.

*Such profound statements are almost beyond comment and should only be taken at face value. Terry’s is indeed one of them. –Will
X 2 – Blue John

# 5

[June 26, 2008 10:21 AM]

Ed S.

Heller affirmed. (Don't have the details yet)

# 6

[June 26, 2008 12:10 PM]

HERB KREBS

Ok for all you people sitting on the fence deciding who to vote for. Please see this from Obama's own mouth.
From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.

# 7

[June 26, 2008 12:21 PM]

Dan Radmacher

Herb,

That quote is inaccurate and taken out of context. Here is the full passage from the book:

"In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

# 8

[June 26, 2008 1:35 PM]

Henry

This is interesting. Is the Obama campaign booking Al Sharpton or CNN?

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/06/25/is-senator-obamas-camp-booking-cnn

# 9

[June 26, 2008 2:20 PM]

HERB KREBS

Dan,
as I read this it has some context. That Barack will do nothing to protect this country from terrorists. Whatever nationality, by this statement he is willing to stand with the terrorists before he stands with his own countrymen. This to me is treason. The first priority of any President is the saftey of the citizens that elected him to office, No matter what tactics are used to protect the citizens. This would never have happened during WWII and did not start until the hippies and 60's generation got control of this country and started taking it down the wrong path.

# 10

[June 26, 2008 2:34 PM]

Dan Radmacher

Herb,

Obama is talking about standing with citizens of this nation who also deserve protection. He is not standing with terrorists, but innocent citizens of this nation who fear the type of hysteria you voice will lead the nation to shameful acts like the internment of patriotic Japanese-Americans during World War II.

Protecting citizens "no matter what tactics" is the real road to treason. To paraphrase Franklin, those who give up freedom for security deserve neither.

# 11

[June 26, 2008 4:01 PM]

HERB KREBS

I will be willing to give up some freedom if it means not having another 9/11. Do you feel the same or it doesnt matter if we do or dont. 3000 peaple died then and it was someone's brother, sister, father , mother..etc..if this can be prevented again then i say by all costs do it. If we are afraid of gov't intrusion to me then they have done something wrong to warrent it.
As for rounding up immigrants I am not for that. Except for illegals. Our law is just that our law. Why am I not allowed to Kill, rape or anything because it is against the law. Obide by our laws..legally or get out. Yes round them up. As for Obama i feel once muslim always muslim.He wont pledge alligence, stand behind our military or protect our borders, neither will Mccain. I can tell you this if elected he will be the most protected president ever.

# 12

[June 26, 2008 4:12 PM]

Dan Radmacher

Herb,

You are a variable font of misinformation. Obama has never been a Muslim. He does say the pledge of allegiance (and even holds his hand over his heart while doing so). And he even, gasp, wore a flag pin in his lapel while campaigning in West By God Virginia.

As to your first point, I've seen no evidence thus far that sacrificing liberty has made us any more secure. The FBI has wasted countless man-hours chasing down weak leads from warrantless (in both senses of the word) wiretaps.

# 13

[June 26, 2008 4:34 PM]

Other John

I could care less if Obama was actually a Muslim...I don't like his policies. And besides, his actual policy stances are not pro-Muslim in most ways anyway, if you actually know a thing about Islam and what it truly means. I would gladly vote for any Muslim candidate provided their views aligned closely with mine...and that goes for any candidate, regarless of race, religion, ethnicity, gender, or anything else. Too bad that many people out there simply look at a physical condition of a person and judge on that, and not the content and quality of who they happen to be and what they stand for.

# 14

[June 26, 2008 4:38 PM]

HERB KREBS

Ok Dan. I like the West by God Virginia.Dan, Obama went to a Muslim school in africa, how can you say that he never was. At one point he had to be. As for FBI wasting hours, how can you say that. We havent been attacked. That should be evidence enough.
All I can say is If we are attacked under the Democratic watch. and they get rid of patriot act you will see a up roar and fight in this country you have never seen before. Then I can unfortunatlly come back and say
'Told You so". If that happens how you guys going to feel then.

# 15

[June 26, 2008 4:42 PM]

Henry

Dan

Herb is goofing. Don't fall for that Muslim nonsense.

Guess who is next under the Obama bus

Presidential candidate Sen. Barach Obama (D-Il) has just hired David Noble to head his Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender (LGBT) voter outreach program.

Noble will last a week. He worked for the lobbying arm of the NGLTF. They were active in some efforts that will hurt the Obama campaign.

# 16

[June 26, 2008 4:57 PM]

Dan Radmacher

Herb,

Sigh. It was Indonesia, not Africa. And it was a public school, not a religious school. CNN thoroughy debunked this notion shortly after it started making the rounds.

And all I can say is, what if we are attacked before Bush leaves office, having sacrificed liberty and privacy. How would you feel then?

There was no attack on American soil for eight years between the first WTC bombing and the second. The absence of an attack is no evidence that we made a good bargain in trading liberty for the illusion of security.

# 17

[June 26, 2008 5:00 PM]

Josh

"Obama has never been a Muslim"

Let's see. From the LA Times:

"His former Roman Catholic and Muslim teachers, along with two people who were identified by Obama's grade-school teacher as childhood friends, say Obama was registered by his family as a Muslim at both of the schools he attended.

That registration meant that during the third and fourth grades, Obama learned about Islam for two hours each week in religion class.

The childhood friends say Obama sometimes went to Friday prayers at the local mosque. "We prayed but not really seriously, just following actions done by older people in the mosque. But as kids, we loved to meet our friends and went to the mosque together and played," said Zulfin Adi, who describes himself as among Obama's closest childhood friends.

His mother often went to the church, but Barry was Muslim. He went to the mosque," Adi said. "I remember him wearing a sarong."

"At that time, Barry was also praying in a Catholic way, but Barry was Muslim," Dharmawan said in Obama's old classroom, where she still teaches 39 years later. "He was registered as a Muslim because his father, Lolo Soetoro, was Muslim."

Bugs have eaten Obama's file in the school's archive, said Vice Principal Hardi Priyono. But two of his teachers, former Vice Principal Tine Hahiyari and third-grade teacher Effendi, said they remember clearly that at this school, too, he was registered as a Muslim, which determined what class he attended during weekly religion lessons.

"Muslim students were taught by a Muslim teacher, and Christian students were taught by a Christian teacher," said Effendi, who, like many Indonesians, uses only one name.

So regardless of Obama's spin and that of his unquestioning acolytes like Dan, the fact remains, Obama was a Muslim and was brought up Muslim.

# 18

[June 26, 2008 5:40 PM]

Josh

Link for my previous post from the LA Times

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/bal-te.obama16mar16,1,7181735,full.story

# 19

[June 26, 2008 11:27 PM]

AJ

Josh,

The idea that a person would be labeled as a Muslim or a Christian or anything else because he had Muslim or Christian teachers and religious instruction in elementary school is laughable. What Barrack Obama was registered as by a parent 30 years ago is absolutely irrelevant. The article you refer to indicated that his step-father was Muslim, so he was registered as Muslim.
Seems to me it was only a few days ago that you admonished those who responded to the Pew survey as Catholics “if you do not attend Mass and you do not believe in the teachings of the faith, you are not representative of practicing members and are not entitled to represent yourself as such in polls." But you think that Obama’s being labeled as Muslim as a child by his parents or school officials, for the sake of custom or expediency, is relevant to his personal religious convictions as an adult.
If you are trying to introduce faith-based fear into the fray based on such tenuous reasoning, you are grasping at straws. Smacks of desperation, if you ask me.

# 20

[June 27, 2008 8:10 AM]

Henry

If his father was a Muslim, then he was considered a Muslim. But it doesn't matter because he isn't a Muslim now.

I used to be a Cub Scout. That doesn't mean I am a Cub Scout now.

"having sacrificed liberty and privacy"

Oh geez. You sound like one of this conspiracy nuts claiming the jackboots are ringing in the streets to take the gun owners to the secret concentration camps. Lost liberty. What a hoot! I bet Dick Cheney is poring over my file right now.

# 21

[June 27, 2008 8:37 AM]

Dan Radmacher

Henry,

The executive branch was able to grab an American citizen, declare him an enemy combatant and hold him incommunicado in a military brig for years without ever presenting evidence that he had done anything wrong. And the administration claims it has the authority to do that again.

The executive branch engaged in massive collection of private communications without even cursory judicial oversight, and Congress just essentially granted it immunity for those actions.

Yes, we have sacrificed both liberty and privacy for the illusion of security.