2009.11.08
Sunday's column: Don't tarnish market jewel
If you've watched the gradual evolution of Roanoke's downtown market area over the past 30 years, you're aware of a dramatic change for the better.
The market was once a best-avoided and gritty part of town infested with drunks and prostitutes drawn there by beer joints, greasy spoons and at least one adult bookstore.
Today, it teems with customers and vendors who sell inexpensive meals, fresh food, flowers and handmade soap, jewelry and other arts and crafts. There's also a grand hotel, a striking Taubman Museum of Art, the O. Winston Link Museum and some "nice" restaurants, too.
National magazines tout the market as a historic jewel. That publicity, no doubt, draws out-of-town visitors.
But they're not the only ones crowding its sidewalks on weekdays and Saturdays.
Valley residents flock there, too. Many of them are apartment dwellers who are part of Roanoke's continuing renaissance in downtown living. The market's rebirth was a prime driver of that.
In short, the 30-year evolution has created a place that's worthwhile for both visitors and Roanoke Valley residents.
But big changes are coming, and they can have far-reaching consequences for the short- and long-term future of downtown.
Read the rest of the column here.
Dan,
For the first time I see you are in touch with reality! Of course we all know that the Roanoke City Government is not! Trust me it is inevitable the City Market is due to be runied by the upcomping face lift.
I have fiends from out of state that love to visit the market. I tell them of the new plans for this area and they ask why. As with any property we must maintain it up or it will fall down or become "Rat" infested.
The new art center is strugling to survive. One reason is the real art is our City Market and the vendors that offer great food and service. This is what most of us enjoy most in life. Roanoke should stick to its "Roots" and keep this geart area as it is. A face lift will not hurt if we don't forget histroy.
Keep the pressure on this one!
Comment by al milton — November 8, 2009 @ 9:35 am
Yes I agree we must not tarnish this Historical area...When I was a child my Grandmother would come to market from her farm in Troutville to sell vegetables,that was the little cash they received as they basically fed and housed themselves by working the land..
Later in life I was part of the workforce that literally turned the market area around and brought it back to life.
I think that the projected 2 yr project is way too long..and will hurt vendors and store owners who are already in a financial pinch.
Our Council seems to have a problem with either doing nothing or going overboard.As a remodeling guy myself I feel the the Market Building could be renovated for way below the projected cost and way faster than 2 yrs.I never understood why our Council can never just" take bids and hire someone" to do these projects.Always have to pay a bundle for all these studies when that money could be applied to the project itself.For example one contractor told me he could build an adequate ampitheatre in the $100,000 range instead of multimillions.
Another concern I have is that so many of the people involved with this Project..including Downtown Inc. and even our own City Council are not from Roanoke and may not have the nostalgia we natives have for our beloved market..We definitely dont want as similar fate as Dans hometown..
Lets make sure to contact our leaders as this work progresses and make sure that the integrity of the City Market remains intact..
Comment by Tony — November 8, 2009 @ 9:48 am
Seems to me some kind of temporary accomodations could be made for the vendors of the the Market building. They wouldn't have to be the fanciest place but certainly meet all the health and building code requirements. The white elephant Heronimous building could easily be turned into a temporary 'Market Building Food Court' IF ROANOKE CITY was willing to make it happen
Comment by Tim — November 8, 2009 @ 11:05 am
I think The Famers market has already been badly tarnished.The architexture of the art museum is so out of place it ruins the feeling of a farmers market and most of the down town area. I think a movie theater would have fit very nicely.
Comment by Jim Stevens — November 8, 2009 @ 11:48 am
It's old. It's dirty. It is a thing of the past not worth the effort. The food was just about as bad as one can get ANYPLACE in the world, except possible some Asian roadside vendors selling cooked cat meat. A bull dozer could fix it in less than a day and that's all the city can afford anyhow. TEAR IT DOWN!
Comment by Al — November 8, 2009 @ 6:51 pm
Dan,
It would have been more accurate if you said, " Nobody will ADMIT that they want this to happen to Roanoke, of course". Most of those monkeys have hidden agendas and even the dimmest prehensile would be smart enough not to come right out and say, " I think the Market Bldg would be better off with a bunch of chains in the there." These are people with no understanding of the intrinsic charm of our home grown vendors. They have no appreciation of history and no interest in our local history.These are the people who visit Colonial Williamsburg and think it's just like going back in time to colonial Williamsburg. They probably think a visit to Busch Gardens Olde Countrye is just like going to Europe and I can drive to it!
Comment by Dick Howard — November 8, 2009 @ 7:23 pm
Hey Al.stick it,stick it stick it stick it,stick......stick it where the sun dont shihine!
Comment by Tony — November 8, 2009 @ 9:22 pm
Folks, the level of discourse is plummeting.....
Comment by Dan Casey — November 8, 2009 @ 10:10 pm
Al, you obviously don't know much about food. There's some good stuff in the market building. Maybe not gourmet level, but good golly, not bad either. And tear it down? Yeah. let's just bulldoze Roanoke history. Great idea.
Comment by gdad — November 8, 2009 @ 10:14 pm
"Folks, the level of discourse is plummeting....."
And on a Sunday night....
Comment by Blue John — November 8, 2009 @ 10:20 pm
Are we talking about the market building, or the entire market area?
Personally,I like the building although I don't eat in there much. I think some visible signs that it's been even slightly renovated - and made to look excessively clean - would attract more people down there for lunch. As it is, I know when my kids go on fieldtrips downtown they eat at the Market Building and it seems to be busy during the day.
Bulldozing won't help - eventually any building will get dirty and unattractive if not maintained well enough.
Comment by Kristen — November 9, 2009 @ 7:18 am
gdad: Hard to figure why you say "obviously I don't know much about food". I have years of experience eating. I have survived and may even be a tad overweight. My food experience are as good as any. What I don't like is dirty rat/mouse/roach/fly infested eateries. More over, I don't like to spend renovation dollars when replacement dollars come in at 30% of the renovation cost. That equates to waste of taxpayer funds, which I don't like either. Save history? Just because it's old does not stand the test of salvation by renovation. PH and WF high schools were old but equally unworthy of renovation. VS was old but also way beyond reasonable approaches to renovation. Nope, TEAR IT, TEAR IT, TEAR IT, TEAR IT down!
Tony: Stick what where?
Comment by Al — November 9, 2009 @ 11:51 am
I'm torn on this. I LOVE the older feel of the market building, but I agree that it is essentially un-restorable at this point. It seems like it would be stupid financially, then again I havent seen any of the plans to do it.
I think an open/air, covered market would be cool. A la Portland's Saturday market. They could rent out lots to vendors/people who want to cook/sell/perform, whatever people want to do.
Half of the area could even be grass!!! Hmmm...maybe an open-air structure near the SIZE of the market building with an huge opening in the center to allow sunlight in. A courtyard perhaps. Vendors on the outsides.
One end of the structure could ALSO serve as a stage for outdoor music events. Just ideas.
Comment by T Witten — November 9, 2009 @ 3:29 pm
Given the option to renovate or demolish... I would vote for renovate every time.
We have become such a disposable society. Tear it down, you say. Well, what if everyone felt that way? I dare say the Paul Revere House, the Wren Building at William & Mary, the State House in downtown Boston, the White House, the Smithsonian Institution, and most of the historical buildings in New England would not longer exist. In their places would be ultra-modern, energy efficient structures that hold no historical signifigance.
In my opinion, an old building isn't just made up of boards and plaster and bricks. Whether it's a public building or a home, there are remnants of every living spirit that passed through the place. From the builders and artisans who worked every day driving nails, forming decorative plaster pieces, and hanging tin ceilings, to the first mother who walked the floors of the two-hundred year old home, with her crying baby or, in the case of the market building, the first customers who spent their hard earned money buying meat and vegetables from the vendors there.
When I was little, I lived with my grandparents, a stone's throw from Mill Mountain, and we would walk to the market every Saturday morning for meat, eggs, vegetables, and fish. I remember the subway tiles on the walls of the vendor stalls, aging hams hanging from the ceilings, and the smells of fish and dirt and hard-working farmers.
Yes, I would still have those memories long after the building is gone, but my future grandchildren would never be able to step foot in that building and say, "My grandmother came here with her grandmother when she was little." They wouldn't be able to touch the door frames and know that their ancestors had passed through those same doors and walked the same floors.
Maybe it's something only us sentimental preservationist types can understand.
Comment by Lynda K — November 9, 2009 @ 5:46 pm
Lynda: I actually love historical structures. Williamsburg, for example, but the blood of histroy that flows through those buildings you mentioned is nothing like the simply past of an old "market" like the one in question. Nothing of any significance every occured in this structure. Nothing of any significance can be linked to this structure. It's simply an old building that has outlived its usefulness and become far to expensive to keep and no matter how much sentiment anyone may have, that is by and large a matter of personal feeling for your connection to the past and days that are gone. There is another GREAT issue to consider. Many really historical structures are renovated and maintained through the effort of private foundations or other "non-public" means. So if you want to contribute the millions for the renovation, fine, charge on. But do not stand by the issue where the public (ie Roanoke City) is going to use their (public) resources (some of MY money) to keep you in touch with some old door frame.
Comment by Al — November 9, 2009 @ 7:39 pm
Unrestoreable..... your a moron..
Comment by tony — November 9, 2009 @ 8:47 pm
The city of Roanoke was chartered in 1884. The city Market Building was completed in 1886 and has been the heart of the City of Roanoke for over 120 years. I would have to disagree that "nothing of any significance" ever happened there. No, it isn't a grand structure. No one famous ever lived there. Maybe no one famous ever entered there. But It was THE place to be, when Roanoke was young.
The Market Building was the center of the public square. In fact, the very first Roanoke neighborhood was located right around the Market Building.
It was center of everything. People gathered there every day. Folks got their news there. (there was no radio or TV to tune into) Folks bought and sold there. (there was no Kroger down the street)
If ANY building in Roanoke has the right to be saved because of its historical signifigance, it should be the City Market Building.
Comment by Lynda K — November 10, 2009 @ 2:06 am
Lynda: I actually do respect you view and will admit it is sad that the city simply does not have the resources to do what some want done. I sort of like taking the path of the contrarian which either pulls out the best or worst of people. The best in your case, the worst in the case of Tony. The issue is easily summarized by looking at the capital project needs of Roanoke. Put everything on the list, then prioritize it. The market simply comes it too far down the list and with a city that is in debt over its eyeballs, there is no way to qualify spending that much money for this project. You also make another interesting observation. Really, is any buildings in Roanoke worth saving? Put the cost on the scale of reason and I find it an easy answer. Here we are nearly five years after the public revelation of just how AWFUL the school system is and we still have graduates with the mentality of Tony...or maybe that's simply "drop-outs" rather than graduates! So, lets get our priorities in order here. Invest in education. It remains the only worthy persuit. TEAR DOWN the market building. That would accomplish a couple of needed objectives. First, it could slightly expand the desperately needed parking. Secondly, it would send these greasy spoon eateries into the past and at the same time provide interest in the renovation or development of other buildings and retail space around the market area. If they are so good, they can pick some other unoccupied structure (of which there are many) and relocate there. The real gain for the market area is the geographical expansion.
Oh yes, just one comment for el dan-o. You clearly allow those who agree with you (Tony the idiot, for example) to slander and slam those who do not. Just another example of why I hold those in your profession in such low regard.
Comment by Al — November 10, 2009 @ 3:03 pm
I do not think that Tony is often in agreement with Dan and he quite often insults me as well. We can always count on Tony. Dan is too lenient when an insult obviously has no "probative" value to the discussion and sometimes not even a point at all. Look out Al, we are agreeing again. Get tough Dan!
Comment by Sandi Saunders — November 10, 2009 @ 3:28 pm
I think it should be renovated - Keep the shops and restaurants below and maybe add a theatre or condos upstairs. Look at what happened recently to the eyesore that was the Verizon building on Franklin Road. I wont go so far as to say it looks great, but it is definitely improved. Not sure what went on inside - but it looks like a simple application to the outside structure made a world of difference. I know the Market bldg is much older and in need of structural and internal repair, but come on how hard could it be. Maybe if they sold the building to Ed Walker something great would happen. The guy is singlehandedly rejuvenating downtown.
Comment by Walker — November 10, 2009 @ 3:46 pm
Good grief Sanders! I have invested two days in trying to make someone angry and now you come along and destroy my enthusiasm for doing so. It's just not fair. AND you say Tony often insults YOU. Gee, maybe I was wrong about Tony. He may be my kind of a guy. So while I'm sort of mellowed out (a very brief life experience) I'll say you are probably a good person....somewhere deep down in that liberal heart...just terribly misguided but none the less worthy of being converted. I'll predict you vote straight R next election. As to Walkers comment's above, I would be happy to see any private developer come in and undertake the renovations. Unfortunately, they would also surely be granted "tax incentives" for doing so. Guess where "tax incentives" come from. But at least the formula for doing so shows an overall beneficial effect for the public, so come on Mr. Walker. But you know, he has lunch regularily with Lady D. I see them toolin' about in his white Lincoln Town Car and I'm just not sure that she is not something of a lame duck right now. Don't know if she swings enough weight, figuratively speaking, to get it done.
Comment by Al — November 10, 2009 @ 5:15 pm
Walker...
As for the Verizon Building... did you happen to drive by and see it after they had torn off the old granite siding? There is a beautiful, old structure underneath. It is replete with art-nouveau carved window frames and such. It's a shame it was recovered.
Comment by Lynda K — November 10, 2009 @ 5:59 pm
Al, "The Market Building has no Historic significance". It appears to me by your comment that the education system has been in shambles for quite some time. Centers of towns ie the Market building are of considerable Historical value to the history of Roanoke and its visitors and residents. Centers of towns were and are social meeting spaces,commerce spacesand entertainment spaces. It represents an era when businessess and business men and women directly served there customers with a hand shake a hello and some conversation. Conversation about the goods being sold, family, politics. Centers of towns connect people in the immediate community with each other as well as visitors from other areas. Malls/and suburbia are what destroyed these centers of communities in this country. Gee isnt Tanglewood wonderful. The more important question is WHAT IS THE PLAN/CONCEPT ? WHO is the FACE behind the decision. HOW AND WHY do they feel that THE PLAN is the answer. By the way Joni Mitchell wrote a song that addresses your thoughts for the Building. "Big Yellow Taxi" . You may want to listen to it.
Comment by H2o — November 12, 2009 @ 8:15 pm
H2o,
Big Yellow Taxi:
"...but you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.
They paved paradise, put up a parking lot."
One of the best and wisest verses ever written. Go Joni!
Comment by Dan Casey — November 12, 2009 @ 8:30 pm
Take paradise and put up a parking lot.was gonna say that myself...yea get tough Dan....cant have any points of view with no "probative value"..I dont think any opinion or statement should get through without the rest of the blogs approval..
Comment by Tony — November 12, 2009 @ 9:35 pm
Al, my favorite curmudgeon, I appreciate the consideration and the kind words, but the day I vote even one R is the day I surrender the voter card. John McCain was the last man I almost fell for and just look where that would have got me! I do not vote "the man". I am a Liberal. I am a Democrat. And I consider that the best choice there is for now. While I cannot recite the platform by any means, on every issue that matters to me, Democrats come the closest to the mark. When my inner prude and anti-social voice tries to speak, I repress that sucker fast! Alas, our love is not to be Al. We will have to survive on the occasional and odd spontaneous agreement to carry us through. But you will always be my favorite!
Comment by Sandi Saunders — November 12, 2009 @ 9:38 pm
Are there two Tony's or does he have two avatars? What gives?
Comment by Sandi Saunders — November 12, 2009 @ 11:11 pm