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	<title>Comments on: Roanoke Police "Wanted" list online: Too much information, or not enough?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/2009/05/14/roanoke-police-wanted-list-online-too-much-information-or-not-enough/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/2009/05/14/roanoke-police-wanted-list-online-too-much-information-or-not-enough/</link>
	<description>Data Delivery Editor Matt Chittum dishes on the freshest, juiciest, hottest and oddest data available in the DataSphere, roanoke.com's home for search-it-yourself databases.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: TScottW</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/2009/05/14/roanoke-police-wanted-list-online-too-much-information-or-not-enough/#comment-432</link>
		<dc:creator>TScottW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 13:06:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/?p=436#comment-432</guid>
		<description>Argis,

Paranoid?  What do I have to be paranoid about, I have a gun???  Just because some choose to protect themselves does not make them paranoid.  Does having a security system make one paranoid?  How about a cell phone to call the police?  

Also, it really did not come down until Christian's home address and the editors home address hit every forum in the country.  Thanks to the Public GIS system.  I always thought that had more to do with it then all the out rage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Argis,</p>
<p>Paranoid?  What do I have to be paranoid about, I have a gun???  Just because some choose to protect themselves does not make them paranoid.  Does having a security system make one paranoid?  How about a cell phone to call the police?  </p>
<p>Also, it really did not come down until Christian's home address and the editors home address hit every forum in the country.  Thanks to the Public GIS system.  I always thought that had more to do with it then all the out rage.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/2009/05/14/roanoke-police-wanted-list-online-too-much-information-or-not-enough/#comment-430</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 02:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/?p=436#comment-430</guid>
		<description>I like how Jeff suggests that the people outed by the gun database were "law abiding citizens," yet the people on that wanted list are not.

Matt's point is valid - we have no idea what these people are charged with. And for that matter, even if they are charged with a crime, they might not be guilty. So until they have a trial and are found guilty, they're still law abiding in society's eyes as well.

I hate how many Conservatives can't argue a point while conceding another. Yeah, The Roanoke Times' Editorial Board screwed up by posting the list, even if it was public.  But to say they "didn't have much of a problem" simply isn't true, because they took the list down and apologized for not considering the ramifications.

Also, Jeff suggests that somehow The Roanoke Times would be responsible if someone burglarized the gun owners house. Um, how about holding the potential burglar responsible?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like how Jeff suggests that the people outed by the gun database were "law abiding citizens," yet the people on that wanted list are not.</p>
<p>Matt's point is valid - we have no idea what these people are charged with. And for that matter, even if they are charged with a crime, they might not be guilty. So until they have a trial and are found guilty, they're still law abiding in society's eyes as well.</p>
<p>I hate how many Conservatives can't argue a point while conceding another. Yeah, The Roanoke Times' Editorial Board screwed up by posting the list, even if it was public.  But to say they "didn't have much of a problem" simply isn't true, because they took the list down and apologized for not considering the ramifications.</p>
<p>Also, Jeff suggests that somehow The Roanoke Times would be responsible if someone burglarized the gun owners house. Um, how about holding the potential burglar responsible?</p>
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		<title>By: Argis Regin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/2009/05/14/roanoke-police-wanted-list-online-too-much-information-or-not-enough/#comment-429</link>
		<dc:creator>Argis Regin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 13:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/?p=436#comment-429</guid>
		<description>Ha ha. That was SO FUNNY when the concealed carry list was published. You start off with a group of already paranoid people who feel they need to "pack heat" to survive, and then shine a spotlight on them by revealing their identities!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha ha. That was SO FUNNY when the concealed carry list was published. You start off with a group of already paranoid people who feel they need to "pack heat" to survive, and then shine a spotlight on them by revealing their identities!</p>
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		<title>By: Me</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/2009/05/14/roanoke-police-wanted-list-online-too-much-information-or-not-enough/#comment-428</link>
		<dc:creator>Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 17:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/?p=436#comment-428</guid>
		<description>... nope wasn't here. Maybe next time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>... nope wasn't here. Maybe next time.</p>
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		<title>By: Me</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/2009/05/14/roanoke-police-wanted-list-online-too-much-information-or-not-enough/#comment-427</link>
		<dc:creator>Me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 17:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/?p=436#comment-427</guid>
		<description>LMAO... I think my ex-wife Elizabeth Caldwell is on that list!!!!

Life WIN.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LMAO... I think my ex-wife Elizabeth Caldwell is on that list!!!!</p>
<p>Life WIN.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Chittum</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/2009/05/14/roanoke-police-wanted-list-online-too-much-information-or-not-enough/#comment-426</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Chittum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 14:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/?p=436#comment-426</guid>
		<description>I should add that I completely defend the right of our editorial department or anyone else to publish what is without question public information. At the same time, people in my position need to make prudent decisions about publishing such a huge database. It's not a publish or don't publish decision necessarily, though that is always the first consideration. You can delete key fields -- a precise address, for example -- and still get information before the public. In the case of the concealed carry permit database, I don't think any level of editing short of not doing it would have diminished the outrage of gun rights advocates. I think the mere fact of it drove the outrage -- and not surprisingly so. These are people who, after all, want to own and carry a gun in secret. Their secret was suddenly out -- or at least it was more out than they were accustomed to. 

But people who do very common things like buy and sell property, obtain concealed carry permits, and other things that create a paper trail of records that are unquestionably public should remain mindful of that fact. You can go in the DataSphere right now and get a great level of detail on every property parcel in Roanoke, including the owner's name, the price the paid for it, who sold it to them, it's square footage, and more. Go to the Roanoke GIS, and you can get even greater detail, plus a photo.

True, there's a difference between a record being public and it being public AND easily accessible from any computer on the planet.

But given the march of technology in both the mass media and in the governments which maintain public records, it seems to me that public information is likely to become more easily accessible, not less, regardless of the level of outrage. That's certainly been the trend so far. If that wasn't the case, a job like mine that depends upon it wouldn't exist.

So as a citizen, what do you do? Get used to it? Raise hell and try to change it? Or in some instances, like concealed weapons, does that activity just go underground? That's certainly a possibility, that people will begin to keep things off the books to keep them secret. That's a risk of public information and the kind of transparency we value in this country. We like our government to be open so we can see what our government is up to, but open records don't just cut one way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should add that I completely defend the right of our editorial department or anyone else to publish what is without question public information. At the same time, people in my position need to make prudent decisions about publishing such a huge database. It's not a publish or don't publish decision necessarily, though that is always the first consideration. You can delete key fields -- a precise address, for example -- and still get information before the public. In the case of the concealed carry permit database, I don't think any level of editing short of not doing it would have diminished the outrage of gun rights advocates. I think the mere fact of it drove the outrage -- and not surprisingly so. These are people who, after all, want to own and carry a gun in secret. Their secret was suddenly out -- or at least it was more out than they were accustomed to. </p>
<p>But people who do very common things like buy and sell property, obtain concealed carry permits, and other things that create a paper trail of records that are unquestionably public should remain mindful of that fact. You can go in the DataSphere right now and get a great level of detail on every property parcel in Roanoke, including the owner's name, the price the paid for it, who sold it to them, it's square footage, and more. Go to the Roanoke GIS, and you can get even greater detail, plus a photo.</p>
<p>True, there's a difference between a record being public and it being public AND easily accessible from any computer on the planet.</p>
<p>But given the march of technology in both the mass media and in the governments which maintain public records, it seems to me that public information is likely to become more easily accessible, not less, regardless of the level of outrage. That's certainly been the trend so far. If that wasn't the case, a job like mine that depends upon it wouldn't exist.</p>
<p>So as a citizen, what do you do? Get used to it? Raise hell and try to change it? Or in some instances, like concealed weapons, does that activity just go underground? That's certainly a possibility, that people will begin to keep things off the books to keep them secret. That's a risk of public information and the kind of transparency we value in this country. We like our government to be open so we can see what our government is up to, but open records don't just cut one way.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/2009/05/14/roanoke-police-wanted-list-online-too-much-information-or-not-enough/#comment-425</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 04:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/?p=436#comment-425</guid>
		<description>Good point made by Jeff. Good point made by you and confirms Jeff's point.  The editorial staff of the Roanoke Times is off base. I am surprised that sooo many in the editorial deptartment could be acquired in one organization.  Extreme preemployment screening?  Just a thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point made by Jeff. Good point made by you and confirms Jeff's point.  The editorial staff of the Roanoke Times is off base. I am surprised that sooo many in the editorial deptartment could be acquired in one organization.  Extreme preemployment screening?  Just a thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Chittum</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/2009/05/14/roanoke-police-wanted-list-online-too-much-information-or-not-enough/#comment-423</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Chittum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 23:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/?p=436#comment-423</guid>
		<description>Jeff, I'm probably wasting my breath by pointing out this distinction, but the concealed weapons permit database was published by our editorial department, which is a completely separate operation from the news department, where I work.

Fred, in defense of the St. Pete Times, the developer of the mugshots site didn't defend it as journalism. Rather, he said newspapers are in desperate times, and doing thing like the mugshots site just to drive traffic and help make money ought to be part of the equation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, I'm probably wasting my breath by pointing out this distinction, but the concealed weapons permit database was published by our editorial department, which is a completely separate operation from the news department, where I work.</p>
<p>Fred, in defense of the St. Pete Times, the developer of the mugshots site didn't defend it as journalism. Rather, he said newspapers are in desperate times, and doing thing like the mugshots site just to drive traffic and help make money ought to be part of the equation.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred McDuff</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/2009/05/14/roanoke-police-wanted-list-online-too-much-information-or-not-enough/#comment-422</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred McDuff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 22:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/?p=436#comment-422</guid>
		<description>Funny thing is that a big PDF list from the police website isn't going to be seen by a lot of people, and it would seem that having those names in front of a lot of people would be the payoff when somebody says "hey, my roommate is wanted by the cops!". So it's a good public service for that information to be out there, but hardly "journalism" to run them in the paper. But is everything that runs in the paper "journalism"? Newspapers are also the repository of information of interest to the public, right? Paid obits aren't journalism, nor are The Latest Line point spreads, etc. Maybe just put that stuff online in a non-sensationalized way and help the police reach the audience they're looking for. 

Now mugshots are a different story. The Tampa paper's defense of their product as "journalism" is laughable. It's a very slick implementation of the kind of things sites like Muggn.com and The Smoking Gun are doing, but it's still train-wreck voyeurism. Present the data on arrest demographics and it's journalism. Draw eyeballs to funny mugshots and it's just guilty fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny thing is that a big PDF list from the police website isn't going to be seen by a lot of people, and it would seem that having those names in front of a lot of people would be the payoff when somebody says "hey, my roommate is wanted by the cops!". So it's a good public service for that information to be out there, but hardly "journalism" to run them in the paper. But is everything that runs in the paper "journalism"? Newspapers are also the repository of information of interest to the public, right? Paid obits aren't journalism, nor are The Latest Line point spreads, etc. Maybe just put that stuff online in a non-sensationalized way and help the police reach the audience they're looking for. </p>
<p>Now mugshots are a different story. The Tampa paper's defense of their product as "journalism" is laughable. It's a very slick implementation of the kind of things sites like Muggn.com and The Smoking Gun are doing, but it's still train-wreck voyeurism. Present the data on arrest demographics and it's journalism. Draw eyeballs to funny mugshots and it's just guilty fun.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/2009/05/14/roanoke-police-wanted-list-online-too-much-information-or-not-enough/#comment-421</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 22:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/datasphere/?p=436#comment-421</guid>
		<description>The Roanoke Times didn't have much of a problem publishing the names of law abiding citizens, who passed a background check, and received a permit to carry a concealed gun. In fact their addresses were published too, just in case any actual criminals wanted to know where a good house to burglarize for guns was.

But the names of people wanted for committing actual crimes, that's too far?

Gimme a break.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Roanoke Times didn't have much of a problem publishing the names of law abiding citizens, who passed a background check, and received a permit to carry a concealed gun. In fact their addresses were published too, just in case any actual criminals wanted to know where a good house to burglarize for guns was.</p>
<p>But the names of people wanted for committing actual crimes, that's too far?</p>
<p>Gimme a break.</p>
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