2009.04.10
Arrest Order for Civilians Yelling Insults
Last week, an Iraqi Army commander ordered his battalion of Soldiers to not respond with insults or physical force when civilians yell insults at the Soldiers. Instead, he ordered his Soldiers to arrest the civilian on the spot. As Americans, my team was shocked to hear this order. The notion of an American Soldier making arrests on the streets of downtown Roanoke for yelled insults is laughable.
In the States, members of the armed services are barred from making arrests. More specifically, the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 forbids any military involvement in domestic law enforcement. American citizens are guaranteed the writ of habeas corpus, protecting them from unlawful arrest, except during periods of martial law, such as in Hawaii after the bombing of Pearl Harbor from 1941 to 1945.
An American Soldier should ignore any insults from civilians. Showing no response is the only high road.
In the past months, I have received numerous insulting messages. The writers called me a ‘baby killer’ and compared American Soldiers to Nazis who murder and waterboard the innocent under the guise of orders and the U.S. government:
“shame on you who have supported it...and remember soldiers.when you die Gods gonna say...Why did you kill..and when you say Cause George Bush told me too.It wont save ya man.....it wont save you..Lets see what was that commandment..Oh yea.thou shalt not kill right?? Govt. cant absolve you from what youve done!”
Whereas I did not respond to these insults, the situation in Iraq is quite different.
As my team got over the initial shock, we began to understand the precarious situation of the Iraqi Army.
When an Iraqi Army vehicle drives through a neighborhood, the Iraqi Soldiers cannot ignore a man who brings them discredit, publically yelling that they are a “fake Army.” When Iraqi Soldiers search a car at a checkpoint, and the owner starts yelling insults about the Soldiers’ mothers and sisters, the Soldiers cannot accept this disrespect. The situation is far beyond egos.
The security situation is fragile and the Iraqi Army must preserve peace and quell disturbances. Honestly, arrest and brief detention is far better treatment than what would have ensued under Sadaam’s regime.
The Iraqi commander ended his order by reminding his Soldiers that the Iraqi citizens that they see every day are their brothers and cousins with extremists intermixed.
Let me ask you something soldier boy.If a country took over the US..for our own good as we did Saddams regime...Would we welcome them?I dont think so ..wed fight till we killed every occupying SOB.Any forces that cooperated would be traitors wouldnt they.....Like the torres in the Revolutionary War..when the Iraq soldiers cant tolerate dissent.theyre just like Saddam..In the end,mark my words...the day we actually leave.and i doubt we ever will,another strong armed leader will take over..the Iraqis we killed in the at least 100s of thousands and our own losses will be for nothing..Are the Iraqis better off.No way....Weve killed off their families.....the loved ones cant be replaced.....we will be hated for decades....increasing the threat of terrorism not decreasing it..Why do you think our own soldiers are commiting suicide in record setting numbers?Its because of what theyve seen and what theyve done..Wise up man.wake up and smell the coffee.buck the military propoganda and see reality..lest you end up homeless or suicidal like many of our vets today!
Comment by bobby — April 10, 2009 @ 8:40 pm
Well this bobby is an idiot. Never been in the miliary and dosn't understand the oath we take when we enter the service. I am retired Navy and a disabled Vet. Lucky for me I never had to pull the trigger on anyone (but would have if I needed to). Thank you for being a man and standing up for your country. I beleive everyone should be required to spend 2 years in the military, and those not physically able should be required to work 2 years in some sort of community service. This would turn this country around by changing the attitudes of entitlement. We as citizens must be willing to serve our country for the greater good of our country and it's citizens. Thanks Kevin
Comment by Kevin — April 11, 2009 @ 10:30 am
Because of the current conditions I can understand the Iraqis exercising a little more control over the population. Of course as Americans it's a bit of a distasteful concept to us, probably more-so to those of us too young to have experienced WWII. But some extra control may be necessary for them to ensure that small pockets of violent persons do not erupt into larger problems.
It would be my hope that while the population may recognize this, they look forward to a day in the future where they work to remove these controls. However, again, that's the American way of thinking. This is a different country and different culture. They'll work towards a system that works for them.
Comment by Ed S. — April 11, 2009 @ 7:39 pm
Bobby is obviously sadly misinformed and has not had the priviledge of government service. While representing the U.S.in several foreign countries, my husband and I have come to realize that our efforts may not have made that much of a difference with the current regimes of those nations. However, we introduce democratic concepts that are especially attractive to the young people who want to know more about Americans--even if their elders are not as enthusiastic. It takes generations to change the way people think and Capt.Connaroe, the example of your team and dedication to service will be remembered. It may not happen immediately, but change will come and the Iraqis will be better off because of your efforts.
Comment by Patricia Alaniz — April 11, 2009 @ 8:59 pm
Kevin,
I could not agree with you more. Mandatory service of all able-bodied Americans could have quite positive effect on our society. It would be my pleasure to hear more about your time in the Navy.
Patricia, thank you for the encouragement. We have seen the Iraqis, especially the younger generation, mimick us in our time here. Even in small ways, like how they try their hardest to make their uniform like ours, even if they do not understand why we do the things that we do. Change is coming.
Ed, you are so right. A decent Iraqi solution for their problems is 100 times better than a great American solution.
Comment by Rich Connaroe — April 12, 2009 @ 1:37 am
Capt. Connaroe, I do hope you know how proud the majority of Roanokers are of you and all our soldiers. Especially the ones in harms way and risking so much. While a few insults (soldier boy - hahaha that made me laugh) and erroneous claims probably doesn't phase you, I just would like you to know that your safety and success means a lot to your readers.
Comment by LarryS — April 12, 2009 @ 6:46 pm
yea introduce democratic concepts by killing.Great idea..The facts arent misinformation.indeed you are ignoring the facts...remember the excuse by the Nazis at Nuremburg..."We were just following orders" as they murdered Jews just as we murdered Iraqis..To serve one leaders purpose..
As far as a mandetory service today..lol...there would be riots in the streets.
Comment by bobby — April 12, 2009 @ 8:52 pm
Thanks for the encouragement, Larry. I appreciate it. And you are right. I am unfazed.
Comment by Rich Connaroe — April 13, 2009 @ 11:26 am
I guess I should not have thrown that insult out there, it just makes the people that don't understand what it is to serve god and country worse. I know too well, as my sister is one of them. She dosn't seem to be able to bring herself to understand the full meaning of what it means and takes to serve your country. She dosn't agree me about the 2nd amendment, or that this country is heading in the wrong direction at this time. I joined the Navy at age 29, with a wife and 2 children. Yes I was the oldest one in my company at boot camp. At first I joined at a time when I needed a job with benefits for my wife and children (got tired of being layed off from Norfolk Southern). Talk about a drop in pay, but my family had health insurance. A man makes decisions that are best for his family. I almost joined the Navy out of high school, but decided to go to college and then met my wife and started a family. But I always felt I should have served my country in some way. The rest of my family thought I had lost my mind. My wife fully understood, and my children have had experiences that have enriched thier lives in many ways. They understand the what it takes to keep this country free and what it means to be proud of our armed forces. I was a shipboard firefighter and stationed on the aircraft carried USS Saratoga during the gulf war. I watched as we lost the first plane and pilot in that war, they are still looking into what happened to him (Hank Speicer). I had a wife and children to take care of so I put my ax to the grind stone and made E-7 within 8 years, not bragging, just shows how determined I was to make a good life for my family. Too many people today in this country have a sense of entitlement and "are willing to trade liberty for the promise of a little security, they deserve neither" (not sure who said that, but I like it). I also know how hard it can be being in the service with a commander-in-chief that is too far to the left, (Bill Clinton, what a nightmare, in so many ways). Morale can plumment at times when they say or do certain things. k So keep your chin up and carry on, and keep making us here at home proud of all of you guys and gals and all you do to keep us safe. Thank youfor you service to this great country. Kevin
Comment by Kevin — April 13, 2009 @ 11:39 am
Bobby's just being a troll and doing what trolls do best: Trolling. We have people like Bobby because America is truly free. We are truly free because we were willing to fight for freedom. Our willingness to fight overseas to support freedom maintains our right to complain.
In short, Bobby is one of the causes for the Iraq War. So when he is looking for a scapegoat for the trillions of Iraqi war dead, he needs to find a mirror and point at himself.
Comment by Henry — April 13, 2009 @ 11:51 am
'bobby,'
You sure know a lot of 'facts' for a 15-year-old.
Do your parents know that you are using the internet?
Comment by Ronald — April 13, 2009 @ 2:34 pm
The quotation mentioned by Kevin: ..."are willing to trade liberty for the promise of a little security, they deserve neither" was said in other words by Benjamin Franklin.
Comment by Devon — April 13, 2009 @ 4:38 pm
Press on Rich!Press on and make it home safely >>Bless you guys over there. While some of us can be critics to you all over there While others @ home in their house sitting on their couch getting fat> i' Promise i'll never do that Be safe God Speed
Comment by Mark — April 14, 2009 @ 12:27 pm
God bless you and thanks for your service. And I hope none of the insults you mentioned came from the editorial staff at the Roanoke Times.
Comment by Charlie Shield — April 15, 2009 @ 7:27 am
The entire insurgency was like a kettle of boiling water. And AQI was the burner. Take the kettle off the burner and it stops boiling.
Bobby,
You are really off your rocker to compare our forces to the Nazis. Insane.
Comment by Hater of Bobby — April 15, 2009 @ 10:02 am
I think that the Iraqi position on insults is worse than laughable. Originally, or forefathers had great concern about misuse of the military domestically, and permitting the military to arrest civilians who “insult” them is dangerous, and a slippery slope. I agree with your position that “showing no response is the only high road.” Additionally, the writer (singular, at least here), who insulted you here doesn’t have his facts straight, or his understanding clear. I don’t care much for discussions that descend from intelligent discourse to name calling, or those that take it there.
As to habeas corpus, in my opinion, it doesn’t protect only “American” citizens. The body of the constitution outlines the powers of government, and its limits. Repeal of Habeas Corpus is a restriction on government, at least in this country, that “shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.” Habeas applies to “all persons”, not just “the people”. (See Boumediene v. Bush)
Habeas has been suspended, as you noted, and also during the Civil war with congressional approval. The appropriateness of that action is still questioned. In any case, it doesn’t protect against “unlawful arrest” – it merely provides a hearing, and possibility of release from false imprisonment.
I do agree with your comment that “arrest and brief detention is far better treatment than what would have ensued under Sadaam’s regime” - and even in this country there are criminal prosecutions for disruptive speech, although untruthful and insulting speech is generally left to civil action. It would be interesting to know more, at some point, about how those arrested are treated during and after the arrest.
Comment by RHW — April 27, 2009 @ 8:53 am