2008.12.19
Roanoke bad market for pro sports
I was amused last week to read in The Roanoke Times that Chris Connolly, the new general manager of the Roanoke Civic Center, said "there's a market for a sports team in Roanoke." No, Mr. Connolly, there isn't. I know you've been working in Canada, sir, so let me fill you in on all the minor-league teams at the Roanoke Civic Center that have lost money. There is no market for hockey, as a string of failed teams showed. There is no market for basketball, as the NBA can explain after bleeding red ink with the Dazzle. There is no market for football, as the failure of the Steam showed. The civic center is no place for pro sports, unless you can find owners who like bankruptcy. -- Mark Berman
RSS feed 
Funny the Roanoke Express always had a following and while I wasnt in the area for the Vipers so I cant speak on them however the net seems to disagree with your assumptions. There is a decent following for hockey in the area contrary to what you might think. While recently living in Henry county I would have much prefered to come up to Roanoke to a game then go down to Winston Salem to watch the Cyclones play. If this area can support Baseball and can support College Hockey then stating there is no market for hockey is narrow sighted at best. The demographics of the RV have changed significantly even from when I lived in Pittsylvania county back in the mid to late 90's and was coming up for Express games even then. Years ago I might have believed you and even maybe agreed but now I have to politely disagree and believe that hockey could survive in the Roanoke Valley again and be supported by a decent fan base that wouldnt cause bankruptcy. (rumor already has it they were and are working towards possibly a 2009-2010 team in Roanoke for the SPHL)
Comment by DJ — December 19, 2008 @ 4:49 am
Reading his unrealistic expectations makes you wonder if Global Spectrum has research Roanoke's market at all.
Comment by Valerie — December 19, 2008 @ 8:26 am
Yes, There is a market here. That has been proven. With the right ownership the Express were booming. Remember when every Friday or Saturday night they were packing in 6,000-7,000? I remember them drawing over 5,000 on weeknights. The problems started when the original ownership changed and fans started leaving. It also doesn't help that the Roanoke Times and all the local sports news are not aware of any sports that aren't coming out of Blacksburg. The last few years the Express were here, they were buried in the sports pages. If they were even there at all.
Comment by DN — December 20, 2008 @ 8:37 am
Hockey failed because the ECHL overexpanded and the Roanoke ownership group imploded. Richmond and Greensboro lost their teams, as have many Southern cities since the late 1990s. Put Roanoke back in a true regional hockey league -- like the ECHL used to be -- and hockey can succeed.
The NBDL ... or NBA Development League ... or D-League (what an apt name) or whatever they call themselves this week, is a joke. None of the original teams exist, the Westward migration will probably end when the league drowns itself in the Pacific, and, basically, nobody cares. We already have minor-league basketball around here, it's called the ACC.
Arena football? You can't be serious.
Comment by Rob B. — December 21, 2008 @ 10:41 am
And with an attitude like that, we'll never see another sports team here. It was the so-called "fans" like yourself that led to the teams leaving.
Comment by P. Kelley — December 21, 2008 @ 7:54 pm
I loved the ECHL back in the 80's and early 90's. Growing up in Hampton Roads, it was a great league with a lot of good regional rivalries, and very good competition. It was always fun to watch when the Express or Richmond Renegades would come to the Scope since they were in-state teams. I completely agree that the expansion of the ECHL doomed the league and many of its teams. They had a very good product that the fans loved, and messed with the formula by expanding westward. Now the ECHL has teams so widely scattered that the league can barely function. The Admirals moved to the AHL, but there are absolutely no regional rivalries for a team in Virginia since the league is mostly in the northeast. As an avid hockey fan, I would love to see minor league hockey games again, and it would be even better if there were some compelling games to watch. As it is, the ECHL did an awful lot to kill the local/regional interest in minor league hockey, and only a few teams with larger fan bases have managed to survive. Even with the Admirals, which has a much larger market to draw from, the fan base has dwindled substantially because the closest rivals are in Pennsylvania, so it's not feasible to make a road trek to an away game like it was in the old days of the ECHL. And with the NHL relegated to the VS network where they can barely draw ratings higher than Scooby Doo re-runs on the Cartoon Network, it will be a while before hockey can make any sort of a comeback in a local or regional sense...mainly because there's so few people even following the pro teams. But getting back to Roanoke, there is a reasonable market for a team, if it's the right kind of team. Corporate dollars aren't going to be there though, which has been the achilles heel of most small market teams...which is why it's great that the Avalanche/Red Sox have been around for so long and seem to continue doing well. A nice venue helps too, and I don't think the Civic Center does good enough a job.
Comment by Other John — December 22, 2008 @ 9:03 am
No, "Pat" (I get the old ECHL reference!). It's incompetent leagues (ECHL, NBDL, AF2) with inferior product and poor leadership that doomed those franchises. If you're going to blame Roanokers for the failure of those leagues in this market, then you have to blame the fans in every other city where those leagues failed -- that pretty much covers the entire Southeast and a good chunk of the Midwest. (See below list from wikipedia of defunct AF2 teams; it's the only time you'll see Roanoke compared with Hawaii!):
The following is a list of teams that, at one time, played in the af2.
* Baton Rouge Blaze (2001)
* Lafayette Roughnecks (2001)
* Lincoln Lightning (2001)
* Roanoke Steam (2000-2002)
* New Haven Ninjas (2002)
* Augusta Stallions (Augusta, GA) (2000-2002)
* Carolina Rhinos (2000-2002)
* Jacksonville Tomcats (2000-2002)
* Tallahassee Thunder (2000-2002)
* Pensacola Barracudas (2000-2002)
* Mobile Wizards (2002)
* Fresno Frenzy (2002)
* Richmond Speed (2000-2003)
* Norfolk Nighthawks (2000-2003)
* Charleston Swamp Foxes (2000-2003)
* Rochester Brigade (2001-2003)
* Cincinnati Swarm (2003)
* Greensboro Prowlers (2000-2003)
* Hawaiian Islanders (2002-2004)
* Laredo Law (2004)
* Columbus Wardogs (Columbus, GA) (2001-2004)
* Wichita Stealth (2001-2004)
* San Diego Riptide (2002-2005)
* Macon Knights (2001-2006)
* Alabama Steeldogs (2000-2007)
* Bakersfield Blitz (2004-2007)
* Everett Hawks (2006-2007)
* Laredo Lobos (2007)
* Fort Wayne Fusion (2007)
* Cincinnati Jungle Kats (2007)
* Louisville Fire (2001-2008)
* Lubbock Renegades (2007-2008)
* Texas Copperheads (2007-2008)
* Austin Wranglers (2008)
* Daytona Beach ThunderBirds (2008)
Comment by Rob B. — December 22, 2008 @ 10:01 am
Well, the population isn't big enough for an NBA, NFL, or MLB team. I don't think the population is big enough to support minor league baseball unless it's at the smallest level. Let's face it: does anyone anywhere want to see minor league basketball? I wouldn't blame Roanoke sports fans for not wanting to see that. Is the problem the people of Roanoke, or the sports being offered to them: they certainly support Virginia Tech football well, and are willing to travel to see that.
Comment by Nelson — December 22, 2008 @ 3:28 pm
Just a side note. the SPHL Is functioning and its essentially a regional league with teams in W-S, Richmond, Fayetteville NC, Knoxville, Huntsville AL, Columbus GA. And as I mentioned before the SPHL has been and still is rumored to be considering Roanoke as a site for a team and it could be the answer to the above statements about need for a regional league. As for the ECHL the merger with the old UHL didnt help any. the ECHL has tried and still is trying to be the 2nd tier Minor League in Hockey (as the claim to be AA Hockey) to AHLs (AAA Hockey) the problem is and I agree the far flung nature of a National setup is not viable the AHL suffers as well. What they need to consider doing in hockey is much like baseball and split things up regionally or something similar. Theyve even started doing like inter league series or games to determine national champs (such as the brickhouse classic in AAA baseball between the Intl and PCL champs) something similiar might be an idea for hockey to consider as for the NDBL laugh who cares.. and the ineptitude in Arena Football is really sad. a perfectly viable product that has gotten national tv even now with 20+yrs of history and now they cancel the season not due to a labor dispute like the NHL but because the league is like a hydra with everybody out for themselves instead of the survival of the league as a whole. I do believe Roanoke can support sports teams heck they get huge turnouts for the Avalanche and I know plenty of folks who trek to Lynchburg as well the South Central SW VA region has 500k people which is bigger then some cities with major profesional franchises so dont give me theres no fan base but I also think VT gets blamed too much for taking away coverage too
Comment by DJ — December 23, 2008 @ 2:35 am
the sphl would be perfect to put a team in roanoke. the reginal rivals would bring back memories of richmond hampton roads roanoke games. maybe with the right people running the team (does anyone know pierre paiemant &john gagnon phone numbers ? ) and with FRONT PAGE support from the newspaper a roanoke sphl can make a go of it. if not put the team in blacksburg & then i know the team would get front page support.
Comment by david wheeler — December 23, 2008 @ 9:40 am
You sir are a fool. There is a POTENTIAllY Great market in Roanoke for a sports team. It was not the pro teams that failed, but the management behind them that failed. Every team that was previously hosted by the Roanoke Civic center was poorley mis-managed and was not promoted well at all. As for the NBADL Basketball team, they did not go bankrupt my ill-informed friend. They (along with Fayetteville, NC) were the only 2 teams left that were still owned by the NBA. At the end of there last season, they were sold by the NBA to a group of private investors. The new owners (from Bakersfield, CA) chose to move that team from Roanoke to Bakersfield. The Dazzle my friend did not go bankrupt and was semi-successful and dearly missed (but could have been promoted better and even more of a success).
Comment by Jeremy Robinson — December 23, 2008 @ 9:51 am
I agree with the comments above that an SPHL team could be successful in Roanoke. I doubt that attendance would match the Express at their peak, but an average of around 2,500-3,000 per night would be realistic for a well-run team. The Salem Civic Center may be a better venue for an SPHL team than the Roanoke Civic Center.
Comment by Kevin — December 23, 2008 @ 6:40 pm
Hockey it the only sport with potential at the moment.
Basketball or football might work later on down the road, but hockey is the one sport Roanoke has shown to support the most/best.
I think it could thrive here once again, but a lot of it lies on how the management and promotion is handled.
It has to really be pushed ot get this area back in it again.If it's done wrong then it will last a year or two and then fade out again.
Since sports haven't had much success at the civic center, try something different.
You know, like booking bands people will see!
Crazy concept, I know.....
Comment by Rigby — December 24, 2008 @ 1:50 pm
Have no idea if pre-season pro games still travel - but that sort of thing is a more likely draw than repetitive minor league games on a random schedule. Having worked civic center concessions for non-profits - weeknight events are dogs regardless of the sport. Loved the VT/Carolina hoops game many years ago - folks will pay to see something more marquee in nature. Not only in sports, but the city ought to look at the Civic Center's seating and event-style capacity. We seem to be off the promoters' radar with bigger venues down the road in Carolina and with JPJ now open in Cville. Hoping Global can at least get the Star City in the mix with promoters since they manage quite a few venues in metro areas larger than ours. Still miss hockey - but rarely ever went during the week and know the civic center wouldn't like to book all the weekends up with hockey.
Comment by Janie O. — December 24, 2008 @ 3:40 pm
Reckon Dr. J is up for bringing the Virginia Squires back to Roanoke?
Comment by Fatboy — December 24, 2008 @ 8:57 pm
I do NOT think that there will EVER be a viable (money making) professional team in Roanoke ever again. The fans in Roanoke are way too fickle and hoard their money. They usually read the paper and decide what to do. If Katrina Waugh says that ticket prices are too high at the arena for Hockey, the sheeple stay away in droves. The Civic Center is, and always has been very poorly mismanaged. They drive up the prices on everything... The city wants a cut on concessions AND get the tax from it... The city council is still fighting over Victory Stadium, and it's been gone for like 4 years!!! They should have built the downtown ampitheater to get concerts and sporting events... but Roanoke City Council is too damn stupid to see the city dying before its eyes... and I hope it does...
Roanoke is one of the only cities in the US to have over 1000,000 in population and NO 4 year college within its boundaries. There is NO INFLUX of young people. NONE!!! The only people returning to Roanoke are the ones going to take care of their dying parents, or the younger parents guilting the kids to come home. Roanoke is a sh*thole. No wonder Ukrop's can't survive... nobody wants to go more than 1000' out of their way... because THEY ARE LAZYASS ROANOKERS!!! PATHETIC!!!
Baseball survives in Salem because it is a good product, and youth are there to support it. Roanoke College may not be VA Tech, but it helps keep the youth vitality of the area going...
I'm done. Just look at the fact people... Roanoke sucks in every way possible... in fact, they are thinking of more ways to do it.
Maybe the Art Center will help... but don't hold your breath.
Carl Correll
Christiansburg
Comment by Carl--Norm — December 25, 2008 @ 11:39 am
does anyone know for sure if the sphl is considering putting a team in roanoke please reply
Comment by david wheeler — December 28, 2008 @ 12:16 pm