2009.04.29
Specter's shift
For Thursday we are planning to write about Pennsylvania Sen. Alren Specter's shift from Republican to the Democrat and what this means for the Republican party.
The Virginia GOP should pay attention.
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NO they should cheer!
Comment by BUD — April 29, 2009 @ 12:35 pm
Specter always seemed like one of the less conservative Republicans anyway, so I'm not surprised. It seems like in both parties, the less extreme elements are having a hard time finding a place to fit in. With the Republicans, Specter is just the latest. The most notable moderate Democrat who changed as the party went in a different direction was Joe Lieberman over the Iraq war and military support issues, of which he leans right on, against the general grain of the DNC. I know for myself as a moderate, I don;t find either Party particularly appealing.
Comment by Other John — April 29, 2009 @ 12:43 pm
Welcome aboard!
Specter always seemed reasonable and fair minded.
Comment by Blue John — April 29, 2009 @ 12:43 pm
Specter is reasonal and fair minded....ergo completely out of step with today's GOP. The NYT has a list of quotes from different people about this switch, and Olympia Snowe's was very telling. She basically says that the GOP 'tent' is getting so small there's not going to be room under it left for anyone.
Specter might not be the last one the Democrats bring over.
Comment by Kristen — April 29, 2009 @ 12:51 pm
Snowe is a GOP senator from Maine.
Comment by Kristen — April 29, 2009 @ 12:51 pm
The Republican Party should not be taking advice from a liberal Democrat newspaper. That's like the Democrat Party taking advice from a journalist like Rush Limbaugh.
Comment by Henry — April 29, 2009 @ 12:51 pm
I agree Henry...the Republicans should continue to listen to Rush et al and all their usual sources of wisdom and advice....after all, that's what got them into the great position they're in today!
Comment by Kristen — April 29, 2009 @ 12:57 pm
This was a sweetheart deal. Specter is about...Specter. I will guarantee that he did this getting assurances from the DNC that he would not face opposition for the democratic nomination for the seat. He has saved his hide, and that is all he cares about, not party affiliation. It happens. Check Jefferds and Nighthorse.
BTW, RTEB, Lieberman is an independent. The DNC threw him under the bus a while back. The score is 59-40-1 right now. I am sure HE hasn't forgotten what happened to him.
Specter should go back to being a James Bond nemesis. At 79 and having been part of the Washington problem for all these years, isn't it time of more of a change than just party affiliaiton?
Comment by BobH — April 29, 2009 @ 1:11 pm
If you want to be nit-picky, BobH, you might count again. The party tally in the Senate after Specters switch is 57-40-2. Both Lieberman and Bernie Sanders are independents, though both caucus with the Ds. The last seat, of course, is currently unoccupied thanks to Norm Coleman being an idiot.
Comment by C. Trejbal — April 29, 2009 @ 1:21 pm
Snowe has an editorial in the NYT today. Granted it's just another "liberal newspaper" that the Republicans should ignore....but interesting reading none the less. Snowe's a Republican.
Comment by Kristen — April 29, 2009 @ 2:06 pm
Yeah Christian, Coleman is an idiot for fighting over 280 some votes, after all that is less votes that VPOTUS Gore was fighting about (all the way to the Supreme Court) in Florida in 2000. And we all know how brilliant Gore was and is.
Coleman challenges less votes and is an idiot. Double standard....
Comment by BobH — April 29, 2009 @ 2:16 pm
Snowe's a liberal Republican.
Remember, Specter said last month that he would never leave the Republican Party. Something caused him to leave and it wasn't political differences. There hasn't been any shifts in the party positions in the last month. Specter heard footsteps and those footsteps belonged to Congressman Toomey.
Comment by Henry — April 29, 2009 @ 2:30 pm
So BobH, did you support Al Gore's effort to have every vote counted and then counted and then counted for 5 months in Florida, or is Coleman special?
Comment by Sandi Saunders — April 29, 2009 @ 2:33 pm
Isn't it funny that the only way for someone to "save their hide" is to become Democrat...it's quite telling if you ask me.
Comment by HCS — April 29, 2009 @ 2:37 pm
Sandi,
I don't support name calling of any kind. I object to any former senator being called an "idiot". I only point out the double standard, which is obvious, Coleman is an "idiot" to the RTEB because he is a Republican challenging a 280 vote margin election, and Gore was not chastised whatsoever for pursuing the Florida recount all the way to the supreme court.
The difference is that, constitutionally, a president has to be sworn in on January 20th. That doesn't apply to Senators.
Name calling is childish and double standards lead to the demise of newspapers.....
Comment by BobH — April 29, 2009 @ 2:44 pm
Henry is right, Spector, in spite of being a fairly loyal and dutiful soldier, heard the footsteps of the Republicans eating their own in a blind attempt to unseat him after a 29 year career because he was not zealous enough or far enough to the right. They literally drove him away and then want to blame him for leaving. I think that he made the best decision he could if he wanted to keep representing the people in PA. Toomey would probably have beaten him in the Primary (what with all that hard right money) but Toomey would have lost in the General and that is the only one that matters to Spector. Like Lieberman (we got poked in the eye but good on that one) he found a way around his own party's machinations. Good on him.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — April 29, 2009 @ 2:56 pm
Apologies to Sen. Specter for spelling his name wrong.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — April 29, 2009 @ 3:04 pm
Snowe's a liberal Republican.
And it's comments like that that illustrate precisely what Snowe's talking about. Pretty soon there will be 10 (maybe) politicians left that fit under the GOP "big tent". As a democrat, this poses no remote concern to me. If I were a Republicans, it sure would.
Comment by Kristen — April 29, 2009 @ 3:06 pm
Kristen and Sandi,
You need to be reminded of not so distant history: Bll Clinton and a democratically controlled congress was the best thing to ever happen the the GOP. Bush and a Republican controlled congress was what brought the Democratic party back from the depths.
What do we have now?
Comment by BobH — April 29, 2009 @ 3:16 pm
You could have said the same thing about the Democrats when Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman left the party. Shoot, Joe was a VP candidate for the Democrats. Wasn't the tent big enough for him?
Comment by Henry — April 29, 2009 @ 3:17 pm
You keep believing that BobH #19. Time will of course tell and then the pundits from both sides will write the books on it.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — April 29, 2009 @ 3:21 pm
Bob, it wasn't just Bush and a GOP controlled congress. It was Bush, the GOP controlled congress, AND how badly things hit the skids DURING that period that handed the House, Senate, and White House back to the democrats. Obama ended up being a fabulous candidate and McCain a relatively weak one, but given the national mood Obama could have won being a lot less fabulous. And that's more due to Bush than any other factor.
Comment by Kristen — April 29, 2009 @ 3:23 pm
Lieberman actively and loudly campaigned for McCain during the election. Besides showing an astonishingly tin political ear, and really poor self -preservation skills, his lack of loyalty to the party that had MADE him a VP candidate not so long ago was sickening. Obama's a nicer guy than I would have been...I'd have yanked his committee chair in a heartbeat after that nauseating display.
Lieberman doesn't have the stones to become a Republican...he'd never get elected from Connecticut as one.
Comment by Kristen — April 29, 2009 @ 3:31 pm
Kristen,
So you are an expert? I don't claim to be. I just point out the obvious. And, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I am sure Bush is the reason that Air Force one caused a NY emergency, and I am sure it was Bush who messed with BHO's teleprompter messing up his speech the other day.
The times that the samw party contolled legislative and executive branches of government have been short in duration through the 220 year history of their existence. Averages are against you.
Every dog has its day. Enjoy it, and hope for it to last. But, chances are, it won't. History is a good indicator.
Comment by BobH — April 29, 2009 @ 3:34 pm
Kristen, you go girl, you are correct on all counts!
Comment by Sandi Saunders — April 29, 2009 @ 3:38 pm
Gee BobH...you're giving Bush credit for even more catastrophies than even he's capbable of creating.
I haven't seen or heard anything that connects Obama to the 747 incident over NY.
As far as one party rule goes...it's historically been a bad thing and I think will probably be even worse given the sad state of politics today. I frankly would prefer to have the Executive side with one party and the Legislative side with the other. As far as the Judicial side, frankly I think they ought to be limited to 8 year terms and then hit the bricks.
Comment by Will — April 29, 2009 @ 4:01 pm
GEE I seem to remember the DEMS throwing LIEBERMAN out in a primary in CONN.--what revisionism!!
Comment by BUD — April 29, 2009 @ 4:09 pm
Gee, that was the year the Democrats retook the Senate, which means Lieberman's loss was hardly a sign of the Democratic Party becoming more marginalized.
Comment by Dan Radmacher — April 29, 2009 @ 4:13 pm
BobH, I understand your frustration (we have been there, remember?) but:
1: "We" do not have absolute power, who has had such? For some, even a tiny amount of power corrupts absolutely.
2: No one blamed Bush for anything he did not have a hand in and saying ridiculous things won't change that.
3: Same party control is not really all that big of a deal when people feel things are clicking, they even had to amend the Constitution when someone was TOO popular once.
4: Our "dog" has been just as hated, just as vilified and just as unfairly maligned (and everyone here knows it) so we know well what is coming. That does not negate the history we have made nor the savoring of it for a while yet.
5: History is a good indicator, I agree. Success breeds success. People are fickle and whiny too. If we had howled and held protests after W won his second term (stabbing us through the heart) what would you have called us? I know you don't believe in name calling, but I give you permission.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — April 29, 2009 @ 4:16 pm
No Bob I'm not an expert. I also don't believe the sort of magical thinking that claims that one party control automatically leads to the other party ascending.
"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" is a nifty quotation, but that's about it. I would not claim that corruption was the main problem with the Bush administration.
Comment by Kristen — April 29, 2009 @ 4:24 pm
BUD, I plead guilty to partisan, but a revisionist I am not. I cop to what I own and I expect others to do the same.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — April 29, 2009 @ 4:25 pm
Dan,
Lieberman lost?? We have Senator Ned Lamont?
Comment by BUD — April 29, 2009 @ 4:52 pm
Lieberman lost the primary, Bud. Isn't that what you were talking about?
Comment by Dan Radmacher — April 29, 2009 @ 4:57 pm
There were (are) people who believe Bush knew about 9-11 beforehand and even orchestrated it. Some believe he caused the Hurricanes and the brudge collapse. Heck, Pelosi tried to blame the bridge collapse on it. He would have had to have been a Sperman to have caused all that he was blamed for.
Kristen,
I am glad you don't feel Gonzalez was corrupt. Therefore the few replacements that were made in the Attorney General's offices didn't really need to be investigated. And that Cheney wasn't with his stock holdings.....
Comment by BobH — April 29, 2009 @ 5:05 pm
The democratics are hardly the party of all inclusion, remember if you are pro-life and do not worship at the altar of abortion you are not welcome.
Comment by Mary — April 30, 2009 @ 7:36 am
The republicratics are surely the party of inclusion, if you worship at the altar of their God, their Corporations, their tax incentives and their 'remember your place politics', you are welcomed.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — April 30, 2009 @ 9:21 am
Sandi who exactly is their God? Remember corporations provide jobs, can you spell that three letter word? If you don't like tax incentives then send all your income to Washington DC.
Talk about remember your place politics, have you even watch the commentary from the liberal media regarding the tea parties, even your president mentioned it last night with a hint of contempt in his voice. It is the democratic party that will not tolerate any other opinion or view than the party line. Has this president ever been asked a question of substance from the press?
President Obama can not take critical evaluation of his policies, when was the last time a president and his staff attacked private citizens for their views? Only this president has, remember Joe the Plumber? Arlene Specter is now in the party where he belongs and I thank my God for that choice!
Comment by Mary — April 30, 2009 @ 9:39 am
"Remember corporations provide jobs."
Okay, I'll play along. Where are those jobs. I know people who are looking for work. Seriously, contrary to what our egocentric friends on this site believe, most people really want to work.
Comment by allen bunch — April 30, 2009 @ 10:13 am
Good question Mary, do you know? I know it is not my God, that is all I know for sure. I have never seen Jesus as a politician, but in my heart, I am certain he was not a Republican. Very little of his teachings ring as 'right wing' to me.
Of course Corporations provide jobs, or more precisely, many provide incentives to shut up, do as you're told and MAYBE keep, your job. Who is the FIRST to take a hit in a downturn? Is it the CEO making mega $ or the lowly worker bee? When you have to be bribed to do the right thing I lose my respect for you in a hurry. I can spell lots of words, Mary. Brainwashed comes to mind.
Have YOU ever heard the hate filled, divisive, insulting, derisive commentary from the Conservative media? I watched the hateful signs, mean and dishonest speeches at many of the TEA Parties with shock and horror, the contempt was well deserved. My President did another fantastic job of answering the questions he was asked and promising to do his best again last night. I realize that 8 years of Bush is a hard act to follow but over 60% still approve so I can handle the other 40% wailing. Maybe he should have tap danced and refused to answer questions since that is more what you are used to.
Democrats tolerate other opinions just fine, it is hate filled vitriol that we will not tolerate and that is not going to change.
John McCain and Sarah Palin set Joe the Plumber up and when he proved to be a self aggrandizing idiot, they conveniently left him hanging in the wind. Maybe you should try to put the blame where it belongs on that one. When private citizens speak out they get pummeled, ask Cindy Sheehan.
Sen. Specter proved that politicians take their career as a calling and he chose not to be sacrificed for the 'right wing' if he can help it. His move took courage and conviction and that is what this country needs a lot more of.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — April 30, 2009 @ 10:34 am
Sandi I guess you do not watch MSNBC or you do and all the hate speech there is okay as long as it is not about your guy. It was Obama who approached Joe the Plumber not the other way around. Specter is a hack politician who will do anything not to have to leave DC. He is in his 80s and is not going to go get a real job at this stage of his life. He is a coward and an opportunist. If he dislikes the republicans direction then why did he not stick around and fix it? The republicans nominated McCain a moderate not a right winger and he lost big time. Remember it is Obama whose cabinet and other political appointments are filled with ex-corporate people, ie. lobboyist who made millions off of failing companies who have been given taxpayers money to bail them out. Did you feel the same way when Joe Liberman left the democratic party? Oh, the hate speech that was directed his way from the left. You and I have a real difference of opinion on what courage and conviction is, Specter is not it.
Comment by Mary — April 30, 2009 @ 1:14 pm
I'm not quite sure what all the teeth knashing and back biting is about here folks with regard to Sen. Specter. He has openly said that he didn't want his 29 years in the Senate to come down to the decisions of the Republican Primary Electorate in PA. I don't think he's hiding any agenda nor do I think he's being disengenous in his position.
I've watched him over the years and found him to be a lot like another Republican Senator that I have a great deal of respect for...that being former Sen. John Warner. Sen. Warner quite often spoke up and out of step with mainstream Republicans. I seem to remember him telling Oliver North that he had no business attempting a senate run from Virginia. I'm delighted to this day that he did.
It's not Senator Specter's fault that the Republican party has marginalized itself to nothing more relavant than a circus tent (and a small one at that). Sooner or later, they will have to look at themselves in the mirror to see where the problems really rest.
As far as hate filled speeches and rhetoric, I was listening to the House of Representatives member from the Winston-Salem, NC area as she spoke against the recent Hate Crime Legislation and in particular her blatent lies about the Matthew Shepard murder. For someone of any reasonable intelligence, this woman lacks every degree of credibility imaginable and then some. I was appalled to listen to her and wondered afterwards what rock she had been hiding under for low these many years.
That's what is killing the Republican Party. Don't look outside your ranks...look inside.
Comment by Will — April 30, 2009 @ 2:09 pm
Mary, you and I have a real difference of opinion on everything so far, courage and conviction are just the tip of this iceberg. You cannot complain about Liberal hate speech then defend Conservative hate speech, any more than I could vice versa, I defend neither.
It was not Obama that approached Joe the innocent plumber and your revisionist take will not change that. Joe the opportunist saw a chance to get in front of a camera and a desperate McCain camp pounced and used him mercilessly and they got no mercy in return, as I said, it happens every time. Obama did not pick some innocent bystander and malign him and the world knows it.
Sen. Specter made his choice, whether to face certain defeat from a party he has served or take a chance on a party that maybe can save his career and let it end on his terms, for a man his age, who has seen history, fought cancer and who believes he still has some important work to do, that takes courage and conviction. I did not like what Joe Lieberman did but I realize that our party machinery was trying to do the same to him, he only chose to run as an Independent and he still caucuses as a Dem, he just supported John McCain, which again, I believe took courage and conviction even as I disagreed with it.
Obama's cabinet and administration (like all before it) has people from Washington and industry insiders because who else knows the ropes better, and who is lining up to serve during such a crisis? Did Bush's ties to Big Oil and Cheney's ties to Halliburton trouble you? The poor and lobbyists...
I agree that McCain was a moderate and a sensible one I thought. If he had picked a better running mate, I believe the nation would have chosen him to get us out of the Wars and restore integrity if nothing else. His choice was wrong for most Americans, then he bungles the financial mess and he paid the price for it. I respect him still and refrain from cheap shots.
I am sorry you feel I am your enemy. I respect that you believe what you say and if you had stated your support for Bush or Republicans in general without the insults, I would have respected that. I know very well that President Obama is not a comfortable fit for everyone. I endured 8 years of discomfort just like yours. Despite what you might think, I do not look for fights or attempt to brow beat anyone who is not already doing it.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — April 30, 2009 @ 2:11 pm
How about it, has anyone out there figured out where those corporations are that are providing jobs?
Comment by allen bunch — April 30, 2009 @ 2:15 pm
Allen the Roanoke Times has a four page listing of jobs. Let your friends know. Jobs also can be found in every major daily across the state. As well as monster.com. Good luck!
Comment by billyoboy — April 30, 2009 @ 2:22 pm
Advance Auto Parts is hiring too right in our own backyard.
Comment by billyoboy — April 30, 2009 @ 2:23 pm
Kind of sad when we have to think of Senators serving their party. It would be so much better if they would do the job they were elected for and serve their constituents.
Comment by Jerry W — April 30, 2009 @ 2:42 pm
Good point, Jerry W, but are you saying we are all duped or are you saying we look at it wrong. Barney Frank catches a lot of insults here and yet he keeps getting elected. Kennedy, Specter, Murtha, McCain, Byrd, Stevens, & Thurmond to name a few long served pols, their constituency must have felt they were being served, No? The party is served when the constituents are served or they do not get re-elected it seems.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — April 30, 2009 @ 2:55 pm
I'm not sure that we're all duped. We're certainly stuck choosing between the lesser of two evils. The minimal number of voters who actually participate in the process kind of tells me that a lot of folks may have accepted the futility of people trying to govern themselves within the rigid framework we have to deal with.
Comment by Jerry W — April 30, 2009 @ 3:13 pm
billyoboy, help me out here. I have been checking out these job listings you mentioned. Why can't I find pay scales for these jobs. I guess there is a first time for every thing but, I have never applied for a job with no idea of what it paid. Also, having trouble finding anything close to home.
Comment by allen bunch — May 1, 2009 @ 2:48 am