2009.07.02
Editorial: Oversight for consumer finance
Consumer financing needs added oversight
Any worry concerning choices should be about making them fair and transparent.
The Obama administration proposes creating a Consumer Financial Protection Agency with broad powers to regulate any lender in an industry whose products range from mortgages to credit cards to payday loans. "This agency will have only one mission -- to protect consumers," Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner wrote in a statement Tuesday that coincided with delivery to Congress of a 150-page proposal to change the way the lenders do business.
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Just what we need. More Government!!! They do such a wonderful job with the VA, social security & medicare. Now they are making cars and overseeing credit cards which means they would oversee themselves. YIKES.
Comment by TScottW — July 2, 2009 @ 2:39 pm
Your opinion of "the government" notwithstanding, what exactly do you believe those served by the VA, Social Security and Medicare would do without those programs, TScottW?
Comment by Sandi Saunders — July 2, 2009 @ 3:02 pm
It's funny when people get so irate at the government stepping in and scream and shout about how poorly they will run things....let me just say that the possibility of government stepping into anything would never even come up if that industry(or whatever the issue is at the time) ran well on its own.
Comment by HCS — July 2, 2009 @ 3:17 pm
like I said before, if you read the disclosures, pay attention to their rules and follow them, there should be absolutely no problems with credit cards or loans. i have had many, many loans and credit cards and never, not one time, have I had a problem with billing, disputes, fees or anything...dont y'all know how to use those things???
Comment by pammala — July 2, 2009 @ 4:05 pm
and we certainly do not obama's nose in that business sector either...
Comment by pammala — July 2, 2009 @ 4:06 pm
let me just say that the possibility of government stepping into anything would never even come up if that industry(or whatever the issue is at the time) ran well on its own.
Comment by HCS — July 2, 2009 @ 3:17 pm
HCS...and thank you for that common sense break. The government isn't trying to fix what isn't already broken.
Comment by Kristen — July 2, 2009 @ 4:31 pm
Thanks pammala, I am sticking with Elizabeth Warren on the consumer issues. I realize Obama is the head of the snake you all want to eradicate, but for the record, there are a LOT of live noses in this effort, although I will be forever grateful to the dead ones who contributed if that makes you happy.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — July 2, 2009 @ 4:50 pm
I have never been able to understand why some people hate government regulation of business. I can only guess that it interferes with their plans for getting wealthy. Why else would someone complain about government requiring a level playing field for business and it's customers?
While we are at it pammala, what sector of business do you think it would be permissable for Obama to stick his nose into?
Comment by allen bunch — July 2, 2009 @ 6:30 pm
none
Comment by pammala — July 3, 2009 @ 10:03 am
"....let me just say that the possibility of government stepping into anything would never even come up if that industry(or whatever the issue is at the time) ran well on its own."
You're correct, HCS, but I wonder...how many problems are encountered by those businesses due to government regulation?
Comment by Patrick — July 3, 2009 @ 10:20 am
"....let me just say that the possibility of government stepping into anything would never even come up if that industry(or whatever the issue is at the time) ran well on its own."
You're correct, HCS, but I wonder...how many problems are encountered by those businesses due to government regulation?
Comment by Patrick — July 3, 2009 @ 10:20 am
Correct Patrick. In most cases it is government that caused the problems for the businesses in the first place. All we need is to expect personal accountibility from people. That is not going to happen under the obama admin.
Comment by Jim W. — July 3, 2009 @ 11:43 am
"You're correct, HCS, but I wonder...how many problems are encountered by those businesses due to government regulation?"
Do people institute governments to protect the people or to protect the businesses?
Comment by allen bunch — July 3, 2009 @ 11:58 am
Patrick, you cannot be advocating for no government regulation can you?
Comment by Sandi Saunders — July 3, 2009 @ 12:13 pm
No, Sandi...I know that would be impossible. But we've all seen some absolutely stupid government regulations that hinder the workforce, haven't we? How many companies have gone under because they had to spend TONS of time trying to comply with ridiculous standards set forth by some government bureaucrat who really doesn't know squat about the business?
Comment by Patrick — July 3, 2009 @ 1:01 pm
Patrick, unless those businesses were run by incompetent people, my answer is none. I expect that it is easier to blame government regulations for your business failure than admitting that you either expected to not be caught or you were not capable of doing business within the parameters all others have as well. That is not a fair argument against regulation. Onerous is an eye of the beholder call and to some that is the excuse used for refusing to follow the rules.
The more likely problem is that regulations need to be fairly and consistently applied and enforced. The economic mess we are in is NOT the fault of regulation it is the fault of relaxing and reversing regulation.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — July 3, 2009 @ 1:46 pm
JimW...
With regard to your post #11...Do you believe that just because Obama is President of the United States, people in general have less personal accountability?
Please enlighten us all with how you have arrived at that conclusion. Personally, I take that as an insult as the degree of responsibility with which I live my life hasn't wavered since I learned the values that my parents instilled in me. If anything, the older I get, the smarter my parents become (and they've been gone for 26 and 9 years respectively).
Comment by Will — July 3, 2009 @ 3:08 pm
What the country needs is a Used Car Buyer Protection Act where the federal government can help me negotiate with unscrupulus used car salemen to be sure that I get a fair deal on that "creampuff" that was a "one owner vehicle used only for in a suicide pact, look , you can still see the lipstick on the tailpipe."
Comment by wayne p. — July 3, 2009 @ 4:03 pm
Sandi, it's not a matter of competence, but a matter of complying with government regulations that make your job difficult...if not impossible.
How many times have we seen OSHA step in and fine the owner of a company for not having some ridiculous safety device in place? Yes, safety is
important, but if installing the safety device makes it impossible to do the job, what do you do? You go out of business because of the regulation...not because of incompetence.
Comment by Patrick — July 3, 2009 @ 4:20 pm
Patrick, your wild accusations have gone too far. If you just want to show my ignorance or insanity this badly, just call me names and be done with it. Please name me a job OSHA requires such unreasonable safety measures for that make the job impossible to do. Please name me a ridiculous safety device they require as well. No business is going to like filing taxes, applying for licenses, performing the training and certifications that are required, having the safety devices on hand and in good working order that might seem to detract from the production and profits (not to mention costing money) but that is a sorry excuse not to be in compliance or fault the need for those regulations. Please back up your assertions about the regulations, OSHA and safety devices.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — July 3, 2009 @ 4:42 pm
Holy smokes, Sandi, calm down! Wild accusations? What wild accusations?
Case in point: A friend owned a company that made backpacks. One of the OSHA requirements was that guards be placed on the sewing machines to prevent the operator from getting their fingers near the needle. Unfortunately, the size of the guard prevented the piece from being sewn together properly. Therefore, compliance with the OSHA requirement was impossible, and rather than be fined over and over again, my friend called it quits.
I'm sure there are others out there who can provide similar stories.
Comment by Patrick — July 3, 2009 @ 6:04 pm
Sandi,
As a Veteran of our fine US Military and a husband to a disabled vet, son to a disabled vet (not to mention numerous other family members) I can tell you first hand how bad the government can do a job.
As a tax payer I can also tell you how bad they do at social security, medicare and everything else they seem to touch. No matter which party touches it.
Our government is too big in my opion. I know your opion is not mine and that is fine. However, when will too big be for you? How much of a nanny state do you want?
Comment by TScottW — July 3, 2009 @ 8:31 pm
How about it Patrick, do you think ROPS cabs are rediculous safety devices? How about back up alarms, are they rediculous? After taking a good look at the situation, most people would say that both of those are worthwhile safety devices.
Just one problem. Why did most companies not go to these devices voluntarily? There is no question about it, they save lives and limbs. Why did the big bully, OSHA, have to step in and force companies to install these devices? Could it be that companies and a lot of people think a few dollars are more important than a few people?
Comment by allen bunch — July 3, 2009 @ 8:42 pm
Allen, I have no clue what ROPS cabs are, so can't tell you what I think. Do back up alarms prevent a job from being done? No, so to use them as an example is pretty sad.
While many companies do try to bypass safety and need OSHA to step in, many companies step back, look at safety, and take it upon themselves to beat OSHA to the punch.
You are missing my point. Sandi said that in her opinion that government regulations do not hinder business, and that any business that fails due to regulations is due to incompetence. That's incorrect and I pointed it out to her...before she went nuts.
Yes, some government regulations are necessary, but many are not and kill businesses because of it.
Comment by Patrick — July 3, 2009 @ 9:06 pm
TScottW, thank you and your wife for your service, and I mean that.
I am not sure how your service or that of your family makes you especially more knowledgeable about telling me "...first hand how bad the government can do a job". My nephew left the Marines just last year, I am not as stupid as you want to think. I have not disputed that the government has, can and will do things wrong, any bureaucracy will. I do however opine that the military and veterans would not be better off if the VA was run by the private sector. I have the same opinion of the USPS, Social Security and Medicare. The private sector generally has ONLY the profit margin in mind and frankly there are some things too important for that mentality.
This great expanse of government that is being bemoaned is not a bigger danger to me than the unbridled worship of greed, the celebration of massive wealth and the ability of many to completely ignore or purposely forget the parts of our society who are not so blessed and the parts of our society working harder and harder for less and less. The disparity was not sustainable and not enough has trickled down. This is an overwhelming time and the Conservative mantra of the individual sounds good but since it also led us here, I flinch at those reaching for more.
I believe that much of this new government "intervention" will not remain. I believe that the Obama administration is trying to rebuild the economy without the massive pain that came with the last huge crash and "The Great Depression". Do I believe every attempt was the best decision, of course not, but I respect the intent and pray that some of the solutions work for the betterment of our society. This economic crisis is also a crisis of values. A crisis of what this country IS and what this country is meant to be. An Oligarchy? NO. A Dictatorship? NO. I know many preach that God wants us all to be rich and successful and many have done well, but too many are left behind. We need, and need desperately, a true Democratic Republic. A true representative government. I am sorry if you think the country has just this year, left the rails. For many of us this train crashed long ago. We have felt disconnected from the people who are supposed to be representing us for many years. We have long questioned the decisions and the attitude of the leaders who are making decisions for us. In my opinion, if we are going down (which I do not fear but realize it is possible) we will go down fighting FOR each other and I can handle that failure. I may not end up on the "winning" side, but I feel I am on the correct side. In no event will I be more afraid of the gangsters on my street than the gangsters on Wall Street; more afraid of armed criminals than powerful zealots; more afraid of a government appointed czar than a CEO.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — July 3, 2009 @ 9:43 pm
Patrick,
In Virginia, VOSH and insurance carriers have stricter rules than OSHA. Allen hit the nail on the head in paragraph two of his post #22.
Comment by Blue John — July 3, 2009 @ 9:45 pm
Patrick, I am sorry about your friend, but the reality is that backpacks are still being made every day so that particular safety device is not too onerous for the rest of them. Wanting to ignore a safety precaution in order to make your product is not an acceptable practice IMHO. You justified to Allen: "Sandi said that in her opinion that government regulations do not hinder business, and that any business that fails due to regulations is due to incompetence. That's incorrect and I pointed it out to her...before she went nuts." First, I did not go nuts and I still feel your accusations about OSHA making business impossible were wild ones. Second, I never said that regulations or safety requirements were not a hindrance. You asked "How many companies have gone under because they had to spend TONS of time trying to comply with ridiculous standards" I answered none. You came back with "...if installing the safety device makes it impossible to do the job, what do you do? You go out of business because of the regulation...not because of incompetence." The example you gave for your friends business was not a fair representation of an egregious or ridiculous safety device being required, surely you know that. There is a difference in requirements being a pain, possibly even a hindrance in some specific aspects, but your argument for ridiculous safety devices or regulations running someone out of business has not been evidenced. My passion for a safe and unintimidated work force backed up by OSHA, VOSH and common sense may make me wrong in your eyes, but it does not make me wrong. ROPS, Roll Over Protection Systems are yet another important safety feature required for construction vehicles and equipment and an important advance for worker safety. However you feel about government regulation and safety requirements, they came about because it was cheaper and easier for business to not have them in place, but infinitely harder and more dangerous for workers. Are there some regs and safety requirements that seem ridiculous, sure there are and those you can find and rail against to your heart's desire. But please keep the baby while losing the bathwater, for all our sakes.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — July 3, 2009 @ 10:55 pm
Sandi, yep, backpacks are still being made...mostly overseas, along with many other products that were once "Made in the USA".
I gave you an example of what I was talking about...sorry if it wasn't good enough for you.
"Wanting to ignore a safety precaution in order to make your product is not an acceptable practice IMHO."
My example was NOT a case of wanting to ignore a safety precaution...it was a case of being physically unable to make a product due to the size of the required finger guard. RIF.
For you to say no businesses have ever gone under because they didn't want to spend time trying to comply with government regulations is ludicrous. How do you know?
How many companies have moved their operations overseas because of government regulations?
"Patrick, your wild accusations have gone too far. If you just want to show my ignorance or insanity this badly, just call me names and be done with it."
How was I trying to show your ignorance or insanity? And BTW, I've NEVER called anyone here names...ever. Nor will I.
I'll leave that up to you.
Comment by Patrick — July 4, 2009 @ 1:30 am
"Allen, I have no clue what ROPS cabs are, so can't tell you what I think. Do back up alarms prevent a job from being done? No, so to use them as an example is pretty sad."
You miss the point entirely. Simple, cheap, entirely reasonable and necessary safety devices that do not prevent a job from being done are rejected out of hand by GREED.
"Yes, some government regulations are necessary, but many are not and kill businesses because of it."
I do not know of any businesses that have been killed by regulation, but I would like to. By looking at those situations and learning from them we should be able to decide on a reasonable and necessary amount of regulation.
How about telling us who should decide what is necessary regulation?
Comment by allen bunch — July 4, 2009 @ 2:50 am
Safety regulations are all that keep us from being China, where no manufacturers are hampered by regulation and they're free to put arsenic in the toothpaste at will.
Comment by Kristen — July 4, 2009 @ 9:30 am
I think I'll just go teach a pig to sing.
Comment by Patrick — July 4, 2009 @ 9:44 am