2009.07.31
Friday open thread
But seen from out here everything seems different. Time bends. Space is boundless. It squashes a man's ego. I feel lonely. That's about it. Tell me, though. Does man, that marvel of the universe, that glorious paradox who sent me to the stars, still make war against his brother? Keep his neighbor's children starving?
How are you seeing things today?
RSS feed 
Just when you thought it was safe
Krakatoa!!!!!!
"13,000 times the power of the atomic bomb that annihilated Hiroshima"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1203028/Will-Krakatoa-rock-world-Last-time-killed-thousands-changed-weather-years-deadlier.html
If this thing busts a cap, it will end all the talk about Global Warming. Very cool pics.
Comment by Henry — July 31, 2009 @ 9:07 am
When is Yellowstone supposed to blow?
Comment by Ed S. — July 31, 2009 @ 9:23 am
Agreed very cool pics.
With all the back and forth banter on this blog... all the friction between dems and reps in this area... all the political stalemating for this area regarding High-speed Internet being brought to rural areas, roads/bridges needing repaired, etc... can anyone argue that we are blessed to live in probably one of the mildest, safest areas in this country and most likely the whole world? Hardly any worries about deadly tornadoes, hurricanes, damaging earthquakes, volcanoes, winds laden with impurities, extreme high temps, extreme low temps, ultra long periods of drought...
We are indeed blessed to be in this area and i would raise an ice water, old english 800, bud light, daquiri, diet coke and say cheers to everyone on this Friday.
Comment by Marked Man (Mark) — July 31, 2009 @ 9:24 am
In the last two weeks, I've had about six calls from the Roanoke Times asking me why I won't subscribe to the paper.
Could someone please explain why the Roanoke Times has to be so aggressive and annoying when we clearly don't want to subscribe?
Comment by Jack — July 31, 2009 @ 9:36 am
From what I've read and seen in documentaries, Krakatoa would be a minor headache compared to a Yellowstone eruption...and it's apparently re-loading since GPS sensors have shown that the land beneath is rising, albeit slowly. It will probably be long after humans have ceased to exist before it goes off again, many thousands of years from now. Though, according to its eruption history, it's a bit overdue now.
Comment by Other John — July 31, 2009 @ 10:00 am
Yellowstone is the cover story on National Geo this month. Before reading my issue I had had absolutely no idea of the seismic history out there.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/08/yellowstone/achenbach-text
The maps detailing the area that would potentially be effected are impressive.
Comment by Kristen — July 31, 2009 @ 10:35 am
"It will probably be long after humans have ceased to exist before it goes off again, many thousands of years from now. Though, according to its eruption history, it's a bit overdue now." - OJ
Thats the same philosophy that global warming advocates use... Its probably getting warmer all over the earth, it may affect us in the future. Though, according to history, the temperature has risen and fallen over periods of time.
Comment by Marked Man (Mark) — July 31, 2009 @ 10:54 am
That temperatures have, and will continue, to be affected by natural cycles such as solar and volcanic activity does not somehow mean that the rapid increase in the concentration of CO2 and other greenhouse gases like methane since the advent of the Industrial Revolution does not have an impact.
Comment by KevinL — July 31, 2009 @ 11:00 am
I thought the GW advocates have said the sky is falling and doom is imminent?
Comment by Other John — July 31, 2009 @ 11:10 am
Good information on reasons NOT to like Obama's healthcare plan...
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/13158
Comment by Jack — July 31, 2009 @ 11:18 am
The best reason to oppose government healthcare reform can be seen in the cash for clunkers program. Don't get lost in the debate that it may or may not have been money well spent, just look at the simplicity of the plam. It involves one buyer, and one seller in its purest form. It was outlined in written form to dealers and involved over 400 pages of information. It officially launched about a week ago and it is now shut down ("Suspended" as they say) because they do not have any idea of how much money has been used or how much is committed to on behalf of buyers. Dealers claim they are NOT getting their money because of complexities in filing the paper work as well as getting access to the system to do so. Now, do you still feel they can run a health care system with all the complexities or physicians, hospitals, labs drug providers and the matrix of other medical care providers? Some probably do, I suppose, but to respond to a question raised by another poster on another subject, some people are just stupid!
Comment by Al — July 31, 2009 @ 12:23 pm
In the last two weeks, I've had about six calls from the Roanoke Times asking me why I won't subscribe to the paper.
Could someone please explain why the Roanoke Times has to be so aggressive and annoying when we clearly don't want to subscribe?
Comment by Jack — July 31, 2009 @ 9:36 am
-------------------------
Jack, most likely because it is a liberal rag that only prints items for dems, they even stalk you at kroger to buy the thing..no thanks, I only post, I read real news on fox
Comment by pammala — July 31, 2009 @ 1:32 pm
"I thought the GW advocates have said the sky is falling and doom is imminent?"
Comment by Other John
OJ, you've mentioned what you call AGW "alarmism" before. Could you elaborate on that?
I haven't seen any. But I try to get my information from reliable scientific sources; maybe you're reading other things?
I see plenty of alarmism from the AGW deniers, always claiming that efforts to stop it will destroy the economy, put people out of work, give too much power to the government, etc., etc. -- where do you see alarmism on the other side?
Comment by Ed H — July 31, 2009 @ 2:04 pm
yeh once krakatoa goes off, and the weather changes for several years and people die from it, I can hear the shout now,
it was bush's fault
we caused it by driving suvs
it is because we breathe out carbon dioxide
omg get us govt healthcare quick !!
Comment by pammala — July 31, 2009 @ 4:41 pm
Ed H, I see the alarmism on the pro-GW side by the folks saying if we don't imediately curb our industrial activity and use of fossil fuels that sea levels will rise by several feet this century, flooding out all big coastal cities, islands, and most of Florida...that all glaciers and ice caps will melt, that weather patterns will become even more extreme, that food will become more scarce and wars will become more prevalent over resources, etc. Sounds fairly alarmist to me. I don;t side with either extreme, I think they're both equally foolish. The truth is probably in the middle both in terms of what we need to do, and what will actually happen.
Comment by Other John — July 31, 2009 @ 4:54 pm
pammala, your last line is right on the money. If Krakatao goes off again like the last time, a lot of people will be needing a lot of government assistance.
On the other hand, it would give us a few more years' breathing space to deal with global warming -- which, thanks to the Bush-leaguers, we'll probably need.
Comment by Ed H — July 31, 2009 @ 5:10 pm
Other John,
Those predictions you "accuse" the GW side of making, are all likely true. That's not alarmist. It's alarming.
Comment by Ed H — July 31, 2009 @ 6:29 pm
hmmmm ED H..earth has been cooling slightly since 1999 and darnitall, who was in office..could it have been.... the Bush leaguers??
Comment by BUD — July 31, 2009 @ 7:53 pm
Ed, I'm not accusing anyone of saying those things, they said them. It would only be an accusation if perhaps they didn;t...but they did, I'm simply relaying what they've said and condensing it. I think it can be debated whether or not all of those 'alarming' things will actually happen. People used to live near the peaks of the Alps at one point back in the early 1000's, but were forced out by glaciers during the Little Ice Age. Before the LIA, northern Europe was a lot warmer than it currently is, and was very agriculturally productive. The problem I take with the GW crowd is they use doom and gloom tactics to try and wrestle additional control over the people by scaring them into thinking that overnight, Florida is going to be underwater, and instantly, all polar ice will melt. It will take many, many years to happen, and seeing as how we can't still conclusivly prove what causes it, since to my knowledge no industrial production was going on around 1000 that could account for that periods warming...it would appear that humans have endured, and even prospered when the earth was warmer. Perhaps rather than devoting efforts to scaring folks into compliance, we ought to focus on determining the impacts of a warmer climate and ADJUST our lifestyles to fit them, rather than try to prevent GW since we have never, not once, been able to control what the planet does to us. I have no problems with clean energy, driving smaller, fuel-efficient cars, using transit, and other pollution cutting methods, I think we need to do them now. What I have a problem with is the cult-like attitutdes of the GW pushers and how they've exxentially created a faux-religion out of it. Beautiful technique they came up with, I'm just waiting for the Green Bible to come out.
Comment by Other John — July 31, 2009 @ 10:36 pm
Other John,
While there may doubtlessly be some persons who treat it like a faux religion, concern about global warming is firmly based in science. If the likely scenario was a 1 or 2 degree celsius warming, then I'd agree that adapting to changes would be the best alternative. However, the likely changes in climate, up to 5 or 6 degrees celsius warming, through 2100 will take the climate far outside of what human civilization has experienced. The observed effects of warming to date, such as the summer retreat of the Artic ice sheet, have been at or beyond what had been regarded as worst case scenarios in earlier predictions. And, as models have been refined, their predictions of warming have increased. Perhaps human civilization and the natural environment could adapt to those changes without major disruptions, but I would rather we not have to find out.
Comment by KevinL — August 1, 2009 @ 8:10 am
"I'm not accusing anyone of saying those things, they said them. It would only be an accusation if perhaps they didn;t...but they did"
"we can't still conclusivly prove what causes it, since to my knowledge no industrial production was going on around 1000 that could account for that periods warming...it would appear that humans have endured, and even prospered when the earth was warmer."
Who are you, and what have you done with Other John?
I mean, the Other John who once bragged to me that he thinks scientifically.
You haven't been paying attention to what the scientists are saying about global warming. You got all those ridiculous exaggerations and distortions from anti-GW propagandists.
No, we can't control the Earth's climate. That is why we have to stop tampering with it. You can't control a stick of dynamite either, but that's no reason to let your children play with one.
Please, try and get it into your head that current global warming is MAN-MADE. It has absolutely nothing to do with the naturally-caused climate changes of the past. And just because the human species survived those changes, you think nobody suffered from them along with other species that went extinct? Think again.
Comment by Ed H — August 1, 2009 @ 2:42 pm
I think we will have to agree to disagree with the causal effects, Ed. I do have a scientific mind, and I've seen enough evidence to make me think that perhaps there are more factors at play than some folks would like to admit. I think it is foolhardy to base huge monetary programs aimed at fundamentally altering our way of life, our economy, and our future on computer modeling, when there have been some serious questions raised about their accuracy and the quality of the data being provided to power the models. I've long argued that we need to work with what we know, without a doubt, to be true. That is, we know that fossil fuels release large quantities of particulates and pollution gases to the environment. Many of those gases, such as sulfur dioxide, are particularly bad due to causing acid rain and other quantifiable, verifiable problems. Mining or extracting those resources leaves massive scars on the land, such as from mountaintop removal or construction of drilling platforms. Spills of those raw materials are particularly devastating when they happen in populated areas or sensitive environmental areas. With much of our oil resources being located in the Middle East and Venezuela, places where the US is not so loved, it is foolhardy to continue down the road of oil use because we depend upon and fund our 'enemies' to fuel our economy. Not only is this unsustainable, it's stupid. We also know that at some point, these resources will become more scarce, or more cost-prohibitive to mine or use. Therefore, we absolutely need to develop solar, wind, geothermal, ocean current hydro, fuel cells, bio fuels, and other sustainable, renewable sources of energy to power our economy, our cars, and our homes. I vehemently disagree with the GW crowd and what they believe in, but I absolutely agree that the things we need to do are largely the same. I just want us to base our foundation for changes in irrefutable facts, which I do not think global warming caused exclusively by man can be considered at this point, in order to get everyone on board because GW has become far too political and divisive for it to ever get a consensus to being about the needed changes to keep our country safe, prosperous, and on the forefront of innovation.
Comment by Other John — August 1, 2009 @ 4:10 pm
The reason that efforts against global warming have become "political and divisive" in the US is because those who do not want action, for whatever reason, have spread and the media has covered supposed doubts about the base hypothesis which simply do not exist among the scientists who are studying this issue. This controversy about the basic facts is not an issue in other first world nations; the proper policy response, of course, is a matter of significant debate. While, again, natural factors like solar cycles have and will continue to have an impact on climate, they cannot explain the observed warming over the past few decades at least.
Comment by KevinL — August 2, 2009 @ 8:07 am
The amount of acid rain we have gotten this summer here is ridiculous. It seems that every day it rains around here, and with the global warming, it makes it nearly unbearable. Why, Friday afternoon at 1pm in downtown Blacksburg, it was already 70 degrees, believe it or not!! Here at the end of July even!! I mean, think of the difference in temperature from the ice age until now in blacksburg. It must have went up a hundred or more degrees. We have to stop this madness. Its possible, at this rate, that in 5 years, it may nearly be 70.1 degrees in Blacksburg in July.
I thought global meant all over the earth?
Comment by Marked Man (mark) — August 2, 2009 @ 3:46 pm