2009.09.11
Friday open thread
And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
What aren't you listening to today?
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I'm heading up to DC this weekend to participate in the 9-12 Project. Everyone have a good weekend.
Comment by Jack — September 11, 2009 @ 8:40 am
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32790058/?gt1=43001
Joining the dark side... Radmacher, Trejbal you guys next?
Comment by Uptheriver — September 11, 2009 @ 8:45 am
Good luck, Jack. I hate I had to miss it. They called me two months ago to work at the event and I thought I had the weekend booked. It turned out to be free. Now it is unfree again. I just saw an update from some people there. It should be a big event.
Comment by Henry — September 11, 2009 @ 9:07 am
That song always makes me laugh. I had a friend in school who thought the line was "ten thousand people eating corn."
So I am not listening to incorrect lyrics today.
Comment by Lisa — September 11, 2009 @ 9:11 am
Have fun, Jack! I wish I could make it!
Comment by Patrick — September 11, 2009 @ 9:42 am
@2 -
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32790058/?gt1=43001
Joining the dark side... Radmacher, Trejbal you guys next?
Comment by Uptheriver — September 11, 2009 @ 8:45 am
"He's trading a much bigger paltform for more time on the air." Huh? Last I heard, Fox's rating are WAY better than MSNBC.
Comment by Patrick — September 11, 2009 @ 9:45 am
Cash for Clunkers rip off:
A "clunker" at 15 mpg and 12,000 miles per year uses 800 gallons a year of gasoline.
A new car at 25 mpg and 12,000 miles per year uses 480 gallons a year.
The average clunker trade should reduce US gasoline consumption by 320 gallons per year.
Supposedly 700,000 clunkers were destroyed so that's 224 million gallons / year.
That equals about 5 million barrels of oil.5 million barrels of oil is about 25% of one day's US consumption of oil.
5 million barrels of oil costs about $350 million dollars at $75/barrel.
So the tax payers spent $3 billion to save $350 million.
How good a deal was that? Cash for clunkers was just sop for the UAW and ObamaMotors.
ObamaCare is next.
Comment by John R — September 11, 2009 @ 10:01 am
Jack, I'll see you there!
Comment by Uptheriver — September 11, 2009 @ 10:06 am
#7 -
Jonh R - Thanks for the eye opening numbers. This program was a failure on so many levels it was ridiculous. Could this be a harbinger for future programs?
Comment by Walker — September 11, 2009 @ 10:10 am
I don't know what I'm not listening to today, but I do knw what I'm not seeing...any mention on this website of today being the 8th anniversary of 9/11.
Comment by Patrick — September 11, 2009 @ 10:10 am
John...
Your calculation is only looking at one side. Have you stopped to consider the impact that the $3 Billion had on the other side?
How many people were returned to work or for that matter got to stay at work? I believe GM called workers back. I believe Hyundai called workers back. Tell those folks how bad that investment was.
Comment by Will — September 11, 2009 @ 10:12 am
Amen Patrick - That would only lend support to the fact that Bush policies have kept us safe for as long. 8 Years ago Wow - My generations "I will always remember what I was doing when...- my 29th birthday as well. My prayers go out to all the heroes and victims of 911, I will also pray for the souls of the cowards that pulled the trigger.
Comment by Walker — September 11, 2009 @ 10:23 am
Patrick...
9/11 is and will be forever remembered just like 12/7/41. It wasn't the most beautiful day in our history. Sometimes, the wounds of the day can heal without too much fanfare but people can still remember and honor those that were lost in their hearts.
Comment by Will — September 11, 2009 @ 10:25 am
"Hyundai"
The South Korean company?
Cash for Clunker did put a lot more debt on people. It was a sucker's game. Not only did you incure debt by buying an overinflated new car, you will have to pay taxes on the money you received for the clunker.
Comment by Henry — September 11, 2009 @ 10:31 am
Moving money from one sector to another is not economic growth. The government created a temporary artificial market.
The government is doing the same with the housing market by keeping interest rates artificially low and paying first time home buyers $8 thousand.
The economy needs real growth, best accomplished by tax cuts.
Comment by John R — September 11, 2009 @ 11:05 am
Henry...
Yes Hyundai. They have a pretty large manufacturing plant in Montgomery AL. Kia is opening a new plant just on the AL/GA border on I-85. Mercedes has a fairly large plant in Bessemer, AL just to give you a little flavor of the manufacturing going on.
One more thing Henry...I didn't see anyone holding a gun to anyone's head forcing them to buy a new car. You say the car's prices were "overinflated". Exactly how did you come up with that?
If you notice, the general public has been reducing their credit/debt exposure over the past year. I think perhaps more financially secure people took advantage of the program than you would like to admit.
Comment by Will — September 11, 2009 @ 11:09 am
Pro-abortion violence kills pro-lifer
http://www.lifenews.com/state4409.html
Comment by Henry — September 11, 2009 @ 11:20 am
Sad story, Henry. Wonder if we'll see this story anywhere else?
Comment by Danny — September 11, 2009 @ 11:53 am
What sort of weirdo "protests abortion" outside of a high school? Precisely what was THAT supposed to accomplish?
Comment by Kristen — September 11, 2009 @ 12:13 pm
#13 - Actually, Will, 9/11 will not be remembered the same as 12/7/41. When speaking of that date, people have no problem saying it was the Japanese who invaded Pearl Harbor. However, when speaking about 9/11 (if speaking about it at all), people refuse to say it was Islamic terrorists who attacked the U.S.
Why is that?
Comment by Patrick — September 11, 2009 @ 12:41 pm
Who refuses to say that? Islamic terrorists attacked the United States on Sept. 11, 2001. That's an established fact. No one refuses to say so.
Comment by Dan Radmacher — September 11, 2009 @ 12:46 pm
Uptheriver... look for me. My buddies and I will have our empty holsters on. Two buddies are driving up from Florida right now and we're all going together.
Comment by Jack — September 11, 2009 @ 12:47 pm
#21 - OK, Dan, then where's the front page story reminding people of what happened 8 years ago, who attacked us, and to remain vigilant?
Comment by Patrick — September 11, 2009 @ 12:56 pm
Patrick...
I don't have a problem saying it. I don't think anyone does.
Comment by Will — September 11, 2009 @ 12:56 pm
Walker...
I just wish Bush's policies had kept us safe prior to 9/11.
Comment by Will — September 11, 2009 @ 12:58 pm
Patrick...
Have you done a survey to see how many newspapers across the country have run front page articles about 9/11 today?
Comment by Will — September 11, 2009 @ 1:04 pm
#25 - Will, don't you mean you wish Clinton's policies had kept us safer prior to 9/11? Bush was only in office 8 months when 9/11 happened.
Obama has been in office the same amont of time, yet everything that's happened since he took office is a holdover from Bush.
Comment by Patrick — September 11, 2009 @ 1:06 pm
Most of the stories will be tomorrow, actually, reporting on the commemorations held today.
Comment by Dan Radmacher — September 11, 2009 @ 1:06 pm
#26 - No, Will, I have not. I only know what I don't see here.
Comment by Patrick — September 11, 2009 @ 1:07 pm
#28 - "Most of the stories will be tomorrow, actually, reporting on the commemorations held today."
Better than nothing, Dan. Too bad a reminder wasn't done today.
Comment by Patrick — September 11, 2009 @ 1:08 pm
Patrick,
Our Nation page was largely devoted to 9/11. It's not as if the newspaper ignored it.
Comment by Dan Radmacher — September 11, 2009 @ 1:10 pm
@ Will #25
"I just wish Bush's policies had kept us safe prior to 9/11."
How many of GWB's policies were in effect in September, 2001? Very few political appointees were confirmed, and not many of his policies were in place at the time of the attacks. Even with new laws in place to ensure a smoother transition (passed in response to 9/11) and a very friendly Senate, many of President Obama's second level positions remain unfilled. Even as we debate healthcare, the person who will likely be in charge of implementation, the Director of CMS, has yet to be named.
I really don't see what feasable policies GWB could have implemented that would have prevented 9/11.
Comment by Mike — September 11, 2009 @ 1:11 pm
The first thing I saw when I turned on the TV this morning was the "ground zero" site. All networks were covering the date and while I do not yet know if anything is in TRT, I think it is hardly fair or decent to pretend that everyone is ignoring the sad anniversary nor is anyone pretending that some other strange entity attacked us that fateful day.
That fateful day when the experienced, hit the ground running, we know all there is to know crowd in DC still had their heads in their heady mandate to govern without actually paying any attention to their supposed "strong suit". Why on earth would ANYONE think former Congressman, Secretary of Defense, and Chief of Staff now VP Cheney, Attorney General Ashcroft, Paul Wolfowitz, former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld or any of the other very "defense" experienced government guys in office for 8 months should be up to speed on the security of the nation and the chatter in the world? Why bother, the world had changed for the better, right? Of course the Clinton team had NOTHING they could tell this bunch, nothing at all.
We can talk all day long if you are willing to be honest.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — September 11, 2009 @ 1:20 pm
#31 - "It's not as if the newspaper ignored it."
Puttin git on the Nation page instead of the front page was about as close as you could get, though.
Comment by Patrick — September 11, 2009 @ 1:24 pm
#1 - Jack, I'm sure Obama is going to love seeing thousands of people standing up for what they feel is right.
Oh, wait. He's bugging out of town, isn't he?
Comment by Patrick — September 11, 2009 @ 1:30 pm
The bus from Roanoke today for DC was filled with twos and twos of people...about 20 made it! If thousands are going to be there, they'll be coming from somewhere other than roanoke.
Patrick, I'm not sure what news you hear and read, but there's zero doubt about who attacked us on 9/11 and where they were from, and what their religion was. Why you're confused on the point, I don't know.
As for it not being on the front page...it was 8 years ago and hardly front page news. The two wars we were thrust into as a result are more worthy of front page coverage.
Comment by Kristen — September 11, 2009 @ 2:46 pm
@36"The bus from Roanoke today for DC was filled with twos and twos of people...about 20 made it! If thousands are going to be there, they'll be coming from somewhere other than roanoke."
Why because a bus wasn't full? People have cars. I'm driving.
Comment by Uptheriver — September 11, 2009 @ 2:55 pm
#36 - Kristen, how do you know how many people made it from Roanoke? Were you standing around watching the bus in envy, wishing you had the intestinal fortitude to travel to DC and stand up for your beliefs like they are?
And yes, it is a national rally. To clear up YOUR confusion, that means people are coming from all around the country.
By the way, the rally is tomorrow, so you have plenty of time to start thinking up ways to make fun and ridicule the attendees.
Comment by Patrick — September 11, 2009 @ 3:05 pm
#36 - Kristen, " As for it not being on the front page...it was 8 years ago and hardly front page news."
I can only sit here, sadly shaking my head, and thank God there are people in our great country who think otherwise.
Comment by Patrick — September 11, 2009 @ 3:19 pm
@27 and @32
Mike and Patrick...I clearly mean Bush. He had the NIE briefings that clearly indicated plans were in the making. He fiddled away the time in Crawford and then sat in that classroom like a deer caught in the headlights of a car.
His teams were briefed. I'm pretty firm on this that he could have done more before hand than after.
I pretty much feel the same way about FDR and 12/7/41.
Comment by Will — September 11, 2009 @ 3:44 pm
40then sat in that classroom like a deer caught in the headlights of a car.
oh yes running screaming from the classroomroom yelling 'we're being attacked; would have been so much better.
W
Comment by pammala — September 11, 2009 @ 4:14 pm
will I hope I have misunderstood, you dont think like van jones and think bush had anything to do with 9/11 do you?
Comment by pammala — September 11, 2009 @ 4:15 pm
the sound of silence....
Comment by pammala — September 11, 2009 @ 4:17 pm
There is another bus that leaves for DC in the morning...a lot of people didn't want to or were unable to do the overnight so I expect there will be a lot more on tomorrow's bus.
Comment by VT Hokie — September 11, 2009 @ 4:29 pm
I know several people that left yesterday and had hotel reservations weeks in advance...smart move.
Comment by pammala — September 11, 2009 @ 6:35 pm
#40 - Will, I know you mean Bush. I was merely making a comparison how everything Dear Leader has to deal with now is always Bush's fault.
Comment by Patrick — September 11, 2009 @ 7:42 pm
Sorry Pam...
I had to head to the chiropractor. I messed up my back over the weekend and now just got in from mowing the lawn.
No, I don't think W intentionally had anything to do with 9/11; however, I think he and his national security team ignored a lot of information in the NIE that should have raised a lot of attention.
I didn't say that I wanted him to run screaming from the classroom. I wanted a mature and reasoned approach from the man. And for the most part, I'd say W did a pretty good job once he got over his shock. Unfortunately, his good work didn't last long until his distraction with Iraq engulfed him.
Comment by Will — September 11, 2009 @ 7:47 pm
Clinton passed up several chances to get Osama.
The only time Clinton got tough on bin Laden was in 1998, in the midst of the Lewinsky scandal, when he needed a big media distraction. Clinton deserves his share of blame for failing to take out bin Laden when he had the chance.
Comment by John R — September 11, 2009 @ 9:56 pm
Actually, Patrick, I'll be at Tech tailgating before the Marshall game and having a great time with a fun group of people. The last place on earth I'd want to be is in DC surrounded by a bunch of middle-aged losers roaming around the Mall clutching their teabags.
Huh. Tech game. Teabaggers. Tough choice!
Comment by Kristen — September 12, 2009 @ 8:18 am
For that matter JohnR....
What about Bush 41? We were in the first Gulf War. Why didn't he do something about him?
Comment by Will — September 12, 2009 @ 8:25 am
#49 - Kristen: "Actually, Patrick, I'll be at Tech tailgating before the Marshall game and having a great time with a fun group of people. The last place on earth I'd want to be is in DC surrounded by a bunch of middle-aged losers roaming around the Mall clutching their teabags.
Huh. Tech game. Teabaggers. Tough choice!"
I'm not surprised a bit, Kristen, that you would place personal entertainment in front of your countries well being. Have fun while "middle-aged losers" fight to save our country.
How pathetic.
Comment by Patrick — September 12, 2009 @ 9:23 am
Kristen - You are the perfect example of the 'me' generation who would rather tailgate (on Daddy's dollar probably) while others fight for your freedom.
Comment by BrianH — September 12, 2009 @ 10:28 am
If this were some left-wing rally, complete with professional, paid "protesters", the few thousand there would garner enormous attention in the media. The Evening News would have focused on the preparations last night, and coverage would be all over CNN over the weekend. Heck, if Cindy Sheehan and her five followers could get massive coverage, imagine how 10,000 at a DC rally would do. But, you could have a million grassroots teabaggers in Washington mounting the most important protest of our generation, and the media would act like it never happened.
Comment by Suzie — September 12, 2009 @ 11:00 am
Tech? Hope you are using your 2nd ammend. rights!!!
Comment by mike — September 12, 2009 @ 11:22 am
Patrick #51: "Have fun while "middle-aged losers" fight to save our country."
You are certainly fighting, but do not mistake your partisan and IMO suspect fight for anything remotely resembling a fight to save our country! Our country is on the right path for the first time since W took office 8 long hard years before 2009! The fight we are in is to wrest control (and we have) from those who seek to control, manipulate and maintain the status quo to serve only those deemed "worthy" by like minded losers. The real America spoke in November and the whole world heard us LOUD AND CLEAR.
Yes Suzie, if this were a legitimate protest for valid reasons the coverage would have been widespread. Not to worry, your network will carry the water, no sweat. They have nothing else. If you manage to get a million misguided losers to come to DC for this "protest", I will cry for what this country could have been, yet again.
Comment by Sandi Saunders — September 12, 2009 @ 12:32 pm
If this were some TEABAGGING rally, complete with professional, paid "protesters", the few thousand there would garner enormous attention in the media.
Fixed your typo. Just checked CNN, what a protest! All 2000 of them, guess they were there for the free beer and brats.
Comment by Art Hill — September 12, 2009 @ 1:48 pm
Suzie, did the groups last rally get better news coverage?
http://www.shorpy.com/node/5572
Comment by MrRational — September 12, 2009 @ 1:54 pm
Today I'm making a committment to better use my time. It used to be fun and enjoyable to come on these boards and engage in debate and discussion over the issues, even when it got contentious, because at least the tone was moderately civil most of the time. But, as I have read through the comments the past few days since returning from a road trip to New York and taking time away from here, most of what I see is sniping, snarky language and negativity from people on all sides of the spectrum, and it's just not worth wasting time here any more. So to everyone whom I've had a chance to talk with, it was nice while it lasted. I'm signing off the RT blog for the last time. I'm getting back to my work on this beautiful Saturday, and then I'm working in the garden putting my energy and effort into creating something beautiful.
Comment by Other John — September 12, 2009 @ 2:13 pm
lots of diversity and equal opportunity celebrated on the college football field
Comment by waynep — September 12, 2009 @ 2:44 pm
I just read that Dick Armey was the organizer of the DC rally. Need I say more?
Comment by Blue John — September 12, 2009 @ 5:59 pm
Patrick...
Why don't you middle aged folks sign up for the military and really do some good. The blustering and screaming in DC won't accomplish a thing except to make a mess of the city.
Comment by Will — September 12, 2009 @ 6:18 pm
John Says:
"Cash for Clunkers rip off:
Supposedly 700,000 clunkers were destroyed so that's 224 million gallons / year.
That equals about 5 million barrels of oil.5 million barrels of oil is about 25% of one day's US consumption of oil.
5 million barrels of oil costs about $350 million dollars at $75/barrel."
John, your math is way off. 224 million gallons of gas translates to over 11.5 million barrels of oil. You are assuming that a barrel of crude oil becomes a barrel of gasoline. But it doesn't. There's these things called refineries. They exist to refine crude oil into various products, including gasoline. Your Standard barrel of crude oil (42 gallons) only produces on average 19.4 gallons of gasoline. 224M/19.4 = 11.546M barrels at $75/bbl that is $865 Million Dollars. You're off by over 100%,
So yeah, Considering you didn't even factor in the refining factor of crude oil to gasoline, I imagine theres a lot of other ancillary costs you aren't factoring in either to balance the cost of the cars traded in versus the amount saved and the amount improved on the environment etc...
Sorry to burst your little bubble there.
Comment by scott — September 12, 2009 @ 6:42 pm
Kristen #49
I can't exactly picture you at a game. Football doesn't seem like something liberals would like. You know, men in uniform, simulated war, competition, scorekeeping, excellence.
Comment by Suzie — September 13, 2009 @ 9:28 am
#61 - Will: "Patrick...
Why don't you middle aged folks sign up for the military and really do some good."
Actually, Will, I already spent 20 years in the military. How about you?
Comment by Patrick — September 13, 2009 @ 5:00 pm
#61 Will - Actually, Will, the city was pretty clean after the rally was over...unlike marches conducted by others previously.
Comment by Patrick — September 13, 2009 @ 6:42 pm
Patrick...
Remember DADT?
Comment by Will — September 13, 2009 @ 7:14 pm
#66 - I sure do. Clinton's sorry effort at resolving a serious issue.
Comment by Patrick — September 13, 2009 @ 7:32 pm
@Patrick #65.. Yeah, I heard someone asking on CNN (yeah, I know) this morning about the "mood" at the protest yesterday and he said it was probably the calmest group he's ever seen.
He was asked if it resembled a "tailgate party" with all of the hoorah going on.. He said it was actually quite a bit calmer than a tailgate party.
It was a good time... I've heard estimates from "tens of thousands" up to "2 million" people.
The metro was insane yesterday and there were a lot of people. Hard to guess numbers from my vantage point... but the 1.5 - 2 million estimates weren't unbelievable.
Comment by Jack — September 13, 2009 @ 8:09 pm