2009.11.02
Monday open thread
"Uno... por favor... How do you say 'banana daiquiri'?
"Banana daiquiri."
What are you trying to say today?
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Sunday morning I was forced to hear a few moments of a Fox "news" interview of Rush Limbaugh while I was eating breakfast in a hotel continental breakfast room. The "reporter" "interviewing" Limbaugh tossed the guy softball after softball. Even when the guy did pursue a follow-up, he listened attentively as Limbaugh spewed his half-truths and unsupported opinions and then moved on.
Wait, I thought it was only the liberal MSM that did that sort of thing when interviewing liberals. I though Fox "News" was balanced and fair and they'd NEVER sit by and let an interviewee go unchallenged. Or so I've been told by conservatives.
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 11:15 am
Watched the same interview and didn't see any of what you describe. How exactly does a person have an "unsupported opinion"? Oh, you must mean an opnion that you don't support.
Comment by Richard S. — November 2, 2009 @ 11:39 am
FOX would never pretent to upset the defacto leader of "das Republican Politburo".
Comment by Will — November 2, 2009 @ 11:46 am
"Unsupported opinion" wasn't the right phrase. I'll think on that. But if you didn't hear the softballs, you weren't listening. "What has Obama done for the U.S. and to the U.S.? Hrumph, hrumph, it's all been TO the U.S. Oh, OK.
Rush is such a windbag.
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 12:45 pm
Saw Obama come to support nasty Corzine for NJ governor. Corzine, a scandalous governor entangled in inappropriate union activities, has raised NJ taxes where property taxes are the highest in the nation already. Corzine has also constrained the NJ fish and game board from operating normally because Corzine opposes hunting. It was kind of sickening to see Obama with his arm around this clown.
Comment by Jim — November 2, 2009 @ 12:55 pm
so what has he done gdad?
Comment by pammala — November 2, 2009 @ 12:56 pm
Then we get Rush calling Obama narcissistic. Rush Limbaugh, Mr. Ego, lecturing about humility?
And then he calls Obama's trip to Dover nothing but a photo op. So who would like to see the pictures of Ronald and Nancy Reagan walking along a row of caskets at Dover? With the press shooting away?
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 1:24 pm
"so what has he done gdad?"
I won't waste my time. You'll simply agree with Rush.
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 1:30 pm
If the Dover thing was not a media event, why were the cameras there?
Comment by John R — November 2, 2009 @ 1:33 pm
So let me see. You saw what you perceived to be bias demonstrated by a main stream media outlet. How'd that feel? Now you know how the rest of the world feels when they are "forced to watch" MSNBC or CNN. The funny part is, while I will never deny Fox's conservative bias, liberals will never admit the clear liberal bias of practically all other MSM outlets, particularly TV and print media. The other funny thing is that, even though they claim to dismiss Fox as unreliable and biased, the left seems to spend an inordinate amount of time paying attention to and then whining and crying about what Fox says.
As for the whole "Republican politburo" reference, that is a good one, particularly considering how offended the left gets if anyone dares recognize that Obama is promoting socialist policies and that the left has spent the last year whining about how it was the unbridled and unregulated capitalism that led the economy into crisis. I guess if you are good at name calling, logic isn't really necessary.
Finally, I saw that Creigh Deeds has, in his latest campaign ad, seized upon the Roanoke Times proclivity to blindly endorse democrats. He cites the Times' quotes about his clear vison for governing Virginia and his "detailed transportation plan." I have asked repeatedly, but no one seems prepared to respond. Could someone please share a few details about this "clear vision" and "detailed plan"? So far the candidate has been unwilling to do so. It would be nice to actually know where he stands prior to election day. He may actually have a good idea or two, but right now no one knows. Good thing he has the Times to offer such catchy political rhetoric, "style over substance" and what not.
Comment by Another Chris — November 2, 2009 @ 1:38 pm
I didn't say it wasn't partly a media event. But you'd have to be a mind reader to know whether that was the whole reason.
Every president I can think of has used the troops -- dead ones, wounded ones, and live, healthy ones -- for media exposure. You can find photos of Bush running with soldiers using artificial limbs. Now I wonder why he brought the media along? Why didn't he just do it in private? Why did Reagan bring along photogs and allow pictures of him walking along flag-draped coffins? Couldn't he have done that in private and honored the dead just as much?
Well, no, not actually. Seeing the president paying respects in whatever way -- whether viewing the dead or visiting the wounded -- is generally though to be a morale booster for the troops and the public. But instead of treating it that way, idiots like Limbaugh and other right wingers want to try to strip away any possible morale boost people might get from it. And they do it not because they KNOW it was nothing but a publicity stunt but because they hate Obama so much they just can't help themselves. And of course Limbaugh needs to continue to make up things in an effort to justify the hundreds of millions he makes.
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 1:50 pm
@8 gee whata nice generalization you got going on there
Comment by pammala — November 2, 2009 @ 1:51 pm
@John R. #9: If the Dover thing was not a media event, why were the cameras there?
I'm sorry, John, which Dover thing are you talking about? Obama's recent unannounced dead-of-the-night visit or Reagan's visit, which included live television coverage and a promo on his weekly radio address?
I like the take of the blogger I linked to: "Any discussion that there's something untoward in the President greeting dead soldiers is wingnut revisionist crap. Kings and leaders have been doing this since time began. It's a sign of respect for the fallen and they do it publicly as gesture on behalf of the people. That these so-called patriots think there's now something wrong with that tells you everything you need to know about their sincerity." (Hat tip to Political Animal.
Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 2, 2009 @ 1:54 pm
#13 wingnut revisionist crap has a certain ring to it. Maybe have right wing,wing nut revisionist. Sounds like a t-shirt.
Comment by Bill Hudson — November 2, 2009 @ 2:04 pm
I'm liberal. I acknowledge that a fair chunk of the MSM leans liberal.
As for Deeds, I can't tell you his "detailed" plan because I don't think he has one. He's run a TERRIBLE campaign. I do suspect he would eventually push to raise the gasoline user fee because that's the fairest and best way to raise badly needed transportation revenues. I wish he had just said that; it couldn't have made things any worse than they are.
Of course McDonnell's transportation "plan" is utter fantasy and won't even begin to solve the revenue problems.
In fact, we now know that until this past weekend McDonnell (and Deeds) had no idea the magnitude of the financial problem he's going to have to deal with. All you no-taxers shouldn't be surprised to see him at least quietly pushing for "fee" increases.
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 2:04 pm
"That these so-called patriots think there's now something wrong with that tells you everything you need to know about their sincerity."
My point exactly, Dan.
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 2:06 pm
So who took the picture, Dan? Who released the picture?
Comment by Henry — November 2, 2009 @ 2:08 pm
I'll tell you what, pammala, why don't you tell me some of the positive things you think Obama has done FOR the country. If you can't think of at least a few, then you've confirmed my "generalization." And, no, I'm not talking about something like "He fired up the conservative base."
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 2:10 pm
#13 - Dan, do you really think Obama's visit to Dover was unannounced? Do you honestly think that the press wasn't alerted?
Comment by Patrick — November 2, 2009 @ 2:19 pm
"So who took the picture, Dan? Who released the picture?"
Why does this matter?
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 2:24 pm
@Henry #17: The pool photographer who accompanied the president, along with a pool reporter.
Most of the ceremony - and Obama's discussion with family members - was closed to the press.
@Patric #19: The press was given minimal notice, as I understand.
How come no one wants to opine on whether Reagan's far more promoted and public visit to Dover was nothing more than a "photo op"?
Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 2, 2009 @ 2:26 pm
@21
How come no one wants to opine on whether Reagan's far more promoted and public visit to Dover was nothing more than a "photo op"?
Because anything before January 20th, 2009 is now "ancient history."
Comment by Art Hill — November 2, 2009 @ 2:33 pm
Patrick, in this context "unannounced" means the visit was not announced to the public ahead of time and in fact was not announced to the media in general. The press pool knew at some point, but probably not very far ahead of time. An "announced" event would have been broadcast to the public ahead of time, much like RR did before he went to Dover.
When Bush or other top brass went to Iraq quietly, it was also called an "unannounced" or surprise visit even though certain press people were alerted and were certainly there to record the event. This isn't a term made up by Obama or the "liberal" media. And it doesn't mean it wasn't announced to anybody at all.
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 2:35 pm
Wow!! Pretty animated for a Monday. Must be all the angst building over the impending Democrat loses on Tuesday. Man I wish I'd have bought stock in Kleenex.
To answer gdad:
The most obvious thing that President Obama has done for our country is to bring to light the vast corruption in congress and the undeniable socialist agenda of the Democrat party and it's members.
Historians will look back to 11/3/09 as the start of the collapse of the Democrat Party as we know it and the rebirth of conservatism in America. Virginia is but the first domino to fall.
Weep not for that wish was but rather for that which should never have been.
Comment by Richard S. — November 2, 2009 @ 2:44 pm
Fair enough, but do me a favor. Don't lump me in with "no taxer" brigade. The simple fact is I am not completely anti-tax. I just like for the taxes to be reasonable, to make sense and to actually go to their intended and necessary purpose. Personally I think doing away with the car tax was a mistake and I have been waiting ever since for a governor, Republican or Democrat, with guts to propose reinstating it. Apparently that person does not exist. However, I so not think raising taxes should be the solution to every issue.
I also don't like the idea of voting for someone who is not willing to offer any ideas or give any details of his platform. He could be truly hapless, or he could be hiding something. I may not agree with everything McDonnell proposes, but I am willing to give him credit for at least being willing to propose something, even if he knows it will be unpopular with and attacked by about half the electorate. So far all Deeds has done his trash McDonnell. He has resorted to the same thing the media and Democrats called dirty pool when it was done against Jim Webb. He has played on fear and tried to rally women and minorities based on a twenty year old thesis. Other than that, what has he said. his negative campaign has backfired and McDonnell's double digit lead seems to indicate that Virginia has realized that despite the Roanoke Times assertion that Deeds is a candidate of substance, very little substance has actually been demonstrated. All that is left seems to be last ditch, partisan attacks and name-calling.
Comment by Another Chris — November 2, 2009 @ 2:55 pm
It would seem to me that the White House would have to wake up a photographer to get them to the event. It's not like one just happened to be following him around. Then they need to get permission to media-ize the event. "Sorry for your loss. Do you mind if the media takes a picture of me saluting the casket for the paper?" Supposedly, they asked all the families and one agreed.
Comment by Henry — November 2, 2009 @ 3:03 pm
#24 Richard S - Perhaps you should watch David Plouffe on Meet the Press before you make such proclaimation. He makes a lot more sense about the Repub Party and what your Right Wing is doing to it.
Comment by Richard — November 2, 2009 @ 3:03 pm
It seems to me that 0Bama and gdad can both silence Fox news and put it in its place by agreeing to meet with the panels on their which he has done on every other news agency it seems.
Gdad, why won't BH0 go on Fox and take them on?
Why doesn't he agree to debate and silence Rush Limbaugh for good? You Libs would love it.
Comment by Bob H — November 2, 2009 @ 3:04 pm
#24 You guys just keep us laughing.But undeniable socialist agenda shows how far out there you guys are.Like I have said before, you are taking the GOP down with you in the long run. Yes, the GOP might win in VA but Va. might be the one of the last hold out to change, not surprised there.
The 8 years of Bush got us here and they had had their day in the sun. That is why the right winger days are gone and over.
Comment by Bill Hudson — November 2, 2009 @ 3:09 pm
I think the difference between Bush and Obama being photographed with the troops is that Bush genuinely cared for the troops and Obama tolerates them.
Comment by Patrick — November 2, 2009 @ 3:24 pm
Richard, S., collapse of the Democrats? Gosh, seems to me I heard not long ago about a "permanent" Republican majority. That worked out well, didn't it?
And tell me, if this is such a huge revival of conservatism, exactly why is McDonnell running as a moderate and hiding his right-wing agenda? Well, because he knows that anybody who runs as a far right-winger cannot win a statewide election in Virginia. Heck, even American hero and true patriot Oliver North couldn't beat a badly wounded Chuck Robb because of his radical views.
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 3:35 pm
@18 he sent troops to Afghanistan the first time he said he would, he has traveled to countries but he has apologized for USA so that really cant be considered, he has not closed gitmo, he has not passed a good, read GOOD health care plan, gee thats it...
Comment by pammala — November 2, 2009 @ 3:38 pm
Bob H, I've already said here that if he's going on other networks, he should go on Fox. He absolutely should NOT debate Limbaugh, no more than Bush would have considered debating some liberal entertainer.
BTW, your use of of a zero instead of an "O" is really childish. Not particularly original, either.
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 3:39 pm
@28 ...I would LOVE to see that interview..rush and obama...man oh man what a riot, I pay
@30 8 years of bush didnt 'get us here'..it started a long time before that, read up !
Comment by pammala — November 2, 2009 @ 3:40 pm
#34 I am sure you would wish that, but it's not going to happen. There are maybe maybe many wishes that the far right might want...but it is not going to happen.
Comment by Bill Hudson — November 2, 2009 @ 3:54 pm
Henry, obviously I do not know how far ahead of time the press pool was notified, but there are members of the pool basically on call 24 hours a day, 365 days per year. Their job is to go at a moment's notice no matter what. I seem to remember that on one of Bush's visits to Iraq, pool members were told they had 45 minutes to get to a plane, and I'm pretty sure they weren't told where they were going or how long they'd be gone. This was for secrecy, of course.
As for the families, I also can't say how far ahead they knew anything. The only real question for them was whether the media could cover the arrival of their child, NOT whether they could cover Obama being there. In fact, Obama met with all the families privately, not in front of cameras or reporters.
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 3:55 pm
@26
11 of the 15 families had declined cameras before the president's visit was announced. The family of a former VMI Keydet agreed to allow photos.
The right should be ashamed for using those who have made the ultimate sacrifice to take yet another political swipe at the president.
Comment by Art Hill — November 2, 2009 @ 4:11 pm
Indeed, Art, it's people like Limbaugh who are using those American soldiers for their agenda. Disgraceful.
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 4:23 pm
Dan,
How can you equate Reagan's Dover appearance with Obama's....Reagan was meeting the fallen troops of the Beirut bombings..it was a HUGE new story?
Obama's appearance WAS the news story. His administration MADE IT ONE and the press fell in line by broadcasting it during prime time news.
Comment by BUD — November 2, 2009 @ 4:24 pm
@39...
And the death of the troops and DEA agents in Afghanistan is not a huge news story? How did the troops that were in Beirut become more important than those in Afghanistan?
Comment by Will — November 2, 2009 @ 4:47 pm
I can see the liberal heads swelling now, ready to explode when the polls close tomorrow. Conservative and Republican are no longer the same thing and haven't been for a long while. The long dark slide into oblivion is commencing for the Democratic party.
Comment by Richard S. — November 2, 2009 @ 4:47 pm
@30...
You have absolutly no basis in fact for such a ridiculous and senseless claim.
Comment by Will — November 2, 2009 @ 4:48 pm
@34...Pam
Why would you want to wrestle with a pig in a mud bog? Generally, the only one who enjoys it is the pig.
Comment by Will — November 2, 2009 @ 4:51 pm
A word before you vote?
Please remember that Bob McDonnell told a reporter -- with a straight face -- when asked if he had ever violated Virginia's sodomy laws, "Not that I can recall."
He cannot be trusted to do what he claims he wants to do for Virginia and Virginians.
Comment by Saintbridge — November 2, 2009 @ 4:54 pm
@35 I know it wont happen, obama is afraid - and he probably wouldn't be allowed to use his teleprompter
Comment by pammala — November 2, 2009 @ 4:57 pm
So, Afghanistan isn't a news story? I've been reading an awful lot about it.
Beirut was a big story whether RR went to Dover or not. He certainly didn't have to go.
Having said that, I support both men going to Dover. As has been pointed out before, it's one way to show respect for ALL troops. It's been done for centuries.
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 4:57 pm
@43 great entertainment value
Comment by pammala — November 2, 2009 @ 4:58 pm
@46 how come only 1 family allowed it?
Comment by pammala — November 2, 2009 @ 5:01 pm
Pammala,
Only one family allowed the press to take pictures - and most made that decision before they knew the president would be there. Obama participated in all the ceremonies.
Back in Reagan's day, the families had no option.
Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 2, 2009 @ 5:03 pm
@24
That's the funniest thing I've heard all day. Thanks!
It's past time the Republicans quit their whining and came up with some realistic ideas instead of simply throwing a wrench into everything Obama.
"The Party of No" label is beginning to stick, where do you think this bright and wonderful conservative groundswell will come from?
@48
Why ask me? Ask them.
Comment by Art Hill — November 2, 2009 @ 5:12 pm
#42 - You're right, Will, it isn't based on fact. It is, however, my opinion. Sorry if you think it's ridiculous and senseless.
Talking to friends who are still in the military, I thank God every day I retired when I did.
Comment by Patrick — November 2, 2009 @ 5:18 pm
@ Gdad #46
"Having said that, I support both men going to Dover. As has been pointed out before, it's one way to show respect for ALL troops. It's been done for centuries."
Amen. RR and BO were (and are) the Commander in Chief and have every right to meet the fallen as they arrive.
Comment by Mike — November 2, 2009 @ 5:18 pm
"@46 how come only 1 family allowed it?"
You'd have to ask them. Privacy, I expect. 11 of the families were asked before it was even known Obama was going to Dover. Their refusals had nothing whatsoever to do with Obama.
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 5:40 pm
And pammala, Obama watched as ALL the coffins came off. It's not like the families banned him from the facility (which they couldn't have done anyway).
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 5:42 pm
So Richard S., why is McDonnell running as much more moderate than he is. If conservatism is so accepted, shouldn't he be running on his extreme right-wing values?
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 5:43 pm
"I think the difference between Bush and Obama being photographed with the troops is that Bush genuinely cared for the troops and Obama tolerates them."
And I always thought mind-reading was fake.
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 5:48 pm
@52 heir refusals had nothing whatsoever to do with Obama.
how do you know for sure?
Comment by pammala — November 2, 2009 @ 5:54 pm
If McDonnell wins tomorrow, (which, in spite of what you may have heard, is not a done-deal) it will once again prove the old adage 'if you throw enough money at something, expect results.'Seems as if every website I visit has a picture of old Smilin' Bob asking for my vote or a picture of a sour-looking Creigh who has been "caught again" at some such nonsense. The Republican obstructionists are looking for any bright spot on the horizon after disastrous losses in 2006 and 2008, and have dumped millions into this "race-to-save-face." Let's keep them in the dark, shall we?
Comment by Art Hill — November 2, 2009 @ 6:05 pm
#40 Will..the point I made was Reagan wasn't the story in going to Dover. The current administration MADE Obama the story in going out to Dover. I regret you can't appreciate the difference.
Comment by BUD — November 2, 2009 @ 6:15 pm
I think the reason 0bama is having trouble with this is because he and his party both have a history of disdain towards the military. It's only natural everybody questions his sincerity.
Comment by Suzie — November 2, 2009 @ 8:13 pm
@57 pammala, if the first 11 were asked before anybody even knew Obama was going, how could their refusals have had anything to do with Obama being there?
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 9:40 pm
@32 pammala, thanks for proving that my "generalization" was in fact the truth. Really pitiful.
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 9:43 pm
@59...Bud
I know that you're not naive enough to believe that the Reagan Administration didn't know how to fully take advantage of a photo opportunity when one arose. Remember, you're talking about the premier Hollywood star in Reagan
But more important...neither you nor anyone else on the face of the planet...save for perhaps Michelle...knows how Obama feels regarding our troops and the feelings of the families during the time he spent with them at Dover that night. Perhaps it was why he did indeed choose the middle of the night to go rather than go during the middle of the day.
Comment by Will — November 2, 2009 @ 10:16 pm
@60...Suzie...
Can you point out a specific "disdain" that Obama has with the United States Military?
Comment by Will — November 2, 2009 @ 10:17 pm
"@60...Suzie...
Can you point out a specific "disdain" that Obama has with the United States Military?"
Of course she can't. It's a "feeling," something that's so very liberal according to conservatives. At least when it applies to things liberals believe.
Comment by gdad — November 2, 2009 @ 11:51 pm
Will...maybe Prez Obama went in the middle of the night because that's when the transport plane arrived.
Comment by BUD — November 3, 2009 @ 6:41 am
61 if all the presidents showed up before you can bet your sweet patootie they knew he was going to show up for the cameras, a fav of himself
Comment by pammala — November 3, 2009 @ 7:10 am
Pammala,
This is the first time a president has shown up during either the Iraq or Gulf wars. George W. Bush could never be bothered with it - with or without cameras.
Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 3, 2009 @ 7:12 am
Just finished watching Obama's campaign manager on the Today Show talking about how the losses the Dems are facing today do not reflect on the President. He actually said that the election results today were insignificant and the most important thing to happen in this election was the NY Republican's traiterous choice to drop out of the election and endorse the Democrat. It seems the Obama media machine is already trying to distance itself from any potential losers and claim victory in spite of the actual outcome.
Thank God today is the last day of listening to the liberals and their lapdog media drone on about how Virginians will be better served by the detailed plans of the candidate who ironically has out forth no plans or details. The last day of hearing about not "choosing style over substance", even though their candidate has revealed no substance. No more deceitful attack ads, empty rhetoric and blindly partisan endorsements. Just 12 more hours and then we can look forward to the predictions of doom and gloom and about how Virginia has regressed 50 years. Gotta love the party of hope.
Comment by Another Chris — November 3, 2009 @ 7:37 am
"George W. Bush could never be bothered with it - with or without cameras."
Yea, sure, president Bush did not care about soldiers killed in battle!
That is the meanest thing I have ever read on this blog! Have you no shame?
Comment by John R — November 3, 2009 @ 7:54 am
68 Bush met privately, was welcomed by the families, he wasnt out for a photo op dan
Comment by pammala — November 3, 2009 @ 8:01 am
@69 losses the Dems are facing today do not reflect on the President
yeh righto
Comment by pammala — November 3, 2009 @ 8:01 am
@John #70: Yea, sure, president Bush did not care about soldiers killed in battle!
That is the meanest thing I have ever read on this blog! Have you no shame?
That's not what I said, John. I said he could never be bothered to witness the solemn ceremony of the remains being brought back to Dover. That's the simple truth - and telling the truth is never shameful.
Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 3, 2009 @ 8:04 am
That is a distintion without a difference as far as I am concerned.
We known how you really meant it! Certainly no impartial observation.
Comment by John R — November 3, 2009 @ 8:21 am
@72...
Rove said the same thing in 01 and 06 when the Republicans were feeling the same pressure. It's the same thing all over again. It's getting to the point that the predictability of politicians is boring.
Comment by Will — November 3, 2009 @ 9:25 am
@66 BUD, if Obama wanted to be there in the middle of the day, you can bet that as commander in chief he could have had the plane schedule changed. Easily.
Comment by gdad — November 3, 2009 @ 9:44 am