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2009.11.03

"You think you can drive a car and change the world? It doesn't work like that!"

"Maybe not, but it's the only thing I know how to do and I gotta do something."

What do you gotta do today?

Posted at 07:15 by The Roanoke Times Editorial Board | Category: Open threads | 96 Comments

96 Comments »

Come on America....do your thing.....VOTE!!! (legally)

I hear ACorn types are up their old tricks again in JOISEY. More absentee ballots requested than in the last presidential election in Camden area...

3,000 ballots set aside because signatures don't match the one on file..
Dem party lawyers say these ballots should be counted and NOT disqualified by the signature alone....imagine that. Look for a "few late precincts" coming in from Trenton about 11:30 tonight. Do they have Indian reservations in JOISEY??

Comment by BUD — November 3, 2009 @ 8:03 am
http://www.roanoke.com/columnists/stowe/wb/222092
From Michael Stowe's article rebutting the accusation that the RT put Deeds picture intentionally above McDonnell's thus making sure Deeds would be above the fold of the newspaper on the front page...

"That decision on which candidate's photo to place on top was made based on the candidates last names, not their political leanings."

Then a couple lines later...

"That also explains why Republican John McCain's photo sometimes ran above Democrat Barack Obama's photo during last year's presidential campaign."

Hmmm... because only SOMETIMES the letter 'M' comes before 'O' apparently, right?

Comment by Marked Man (mark) — November 3, 2009 @ 8:34 am
Just read with tear filled eyes,that wonderful article on the So Ro attempted abduction. These three young men sound so wonderful. And coming from a country with so much violence, surely they are not "responsible" even if they did it. AND after their time is served they will probably be deported to countries where they may be killed for having fled. Oh my, will someone please step forward and stand up for them? Why better yet, this sounds like a case for the RT to take to the state department and get a presidential pardon. With all the liberal butter the Times spreads, you must have some favors coming.

Comment by Al — November 3, 2009 @ 8:37 am
Just left my polling place and noticed not a single Creigh Deeds sign among all the others.

Have the Dems already admitted it's a lost cause?

Comment by Patrick — November 3, 2009 @ 8:43 am
@3 idiots didnt get near enough time in jail....

Comment by pammala — November 3, 2009 @ 8:46 am
What do "I gotta do today"? Why do my part, the same as everyday except that today I also have the privilege of sending President Obama and Congress a clear and concise message that their message of hope was false and their change is unwanted.

Comment by Richard S. — November 3, 2009 @ 9:12 am
@3 Yeah Al, say, why doesnt everyone who has planned and tried to execute a murder/kidnapping/robbery just say that they never intended to hurt anyone, their ancestors endured some sort of abuse, and that they just wanted some money so they could 'have a little something'??

Wonder if everyone would then get off so easily?

Comment by Marked Man (mark) — November 3, 2009 @ 9:12 am
@1 typical Republican. Claim fraud before the election even starts. I remember Virginia Republicans whining and moaning about election fraud -- when there was never any evidence of fraud in Virginia. Typical victim mentality of the Repubs.

Comment by gdad — November 3, 2009 @ 9:35 am
@3 Al finding liberal slant where none exists. Sad, sad, sad.

Comment by gdad — November 3, 2009 @ 9:37 am
What's really sad in this case is that Turk said "it was one of the most difficult cases he has had in 37 years". WHAT! It was apparently pretty cut and dried. Maybe we will have courts that no longer administer the law, but render decisions with evolutionary and socially responsible thinking, fitting the model of contemporary social views. Actually, maybe this trio would find a place in the current administration overseeing immigration reform. BO already has a house full of criminals on board.

Comment by Al — November 3, 2009 @ 9:39 am
Notice that Richard S. is still unable to explain why, if conservatism is so strong in Virginia, McDonnell felt like he had to run as much more moderate than he really is. The truth is, a radical right-winger like McDonnell cannot be elected in this state is he runs on his true beliefs. He has to fake it, basically lying to the voters.

Comment by gdad — November 3, 2009 @ 9:47 am
On election Day, I thought I'd point out some the pinko commie stuff the ACLU supports.

--The ACLU pushed to make sure Virginia changed its rules so that absentee ballots get to our troops in time for their votes to be counted. It also supports counting the ballots if they're late because a registrar didn't get them out in time. They will be monitoring the 16 registrars who were late this year.

--The ACLU helped get rid of the Election Board rule that disallowed political buttons or clothing in a voting area. Now if the ACLU was REALLY American, it would have made sure that only truly patriotic clothing and shirts and buttons for REAL American candidates were allowed.

--The ACLU is reminding people that if you forget your voter card, you don't have to go home and get it. You can sign an Affirmation of Identity form and prove your identity later. In pointing out this actual Virginia law and trying to FORCE poll workers to follow it, the ACLU is proving that it supports fraudulent voting.

--The ACLU pushed to make sure that college students are able to vote with ease. The ACLU then had the gall to actually publicize these expanded voting rights on campuses. Shameful. Wanting as many eligible Americans to vote as possible is just un-American. As GFK will tell you, only land-owning people with an education level that meets his specifications should be allowed to vote.

--The ACLU told Gate City school administrators that students who dislike the ACLU should definitely be allowed to protest the ACLU. How un-George Bush-like of them. If the protest is actually allowed, the students should be penned in "free speech zone" far from the school.

What commies.

Comment by gdad — November 3, 2009 @ 10:02 am
@11 I would put it similar to Obama. I believe the reason is called Politics. You say whatever, whenever to get you elected.

Comment by Uptheriver — November 3, 2009 @ 10:20 am
gdad #11

I'll let the ballots case today do the explaining for me. Compared to President Obama and the Democrat majority in congress McDonnell is definetly a conservative.

Comment by Richard S. — November 3, 2009 @ 10:23 am
From the Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/03/AR2009110300371_pf.html

"Turnout was light, and interviews with voters at several Northern Virginia precincts showed little sign of the blue tide that swept Virginia a year ago, when the state played a pivotal role in the election of Barack Obama as the nation's 44th president. Instead, many voters said they were distressed about the direction the country seemed to be taking under Obama's leadership, and would vote for Republican candidates in part as a way to slow the pace of change."

Comment by Marked Man (mark) — November 3, 2009 @ 10:25 am
#12 Your comment makes what you say "pinko commie" all the more discredits you. This is the kind of stuff we use to hear years ago. We have moved on since then and we have a new President. If you guys still want to pull your own GOP party so far to the right then you might wake up to find the next election not in your favor.
Remember Mr. Dito head himself the ACLU argued that his privacy should not have been compromised by allowing law enforcement examination of his medical records
Commies? You guys need to get in the present time.

Comment by Bill Hudson — November 3, 2009 @ 10:35 am
Gdad-

"He has to fake it, basically lying to the voters."

0bama did it. Fair is fair. Oh and by the way, Virginia is still more conservative than liberal.

Have a nice day!

Comment by T Witten — November 3, 2009 @ 10:36 am
11 NOW who's whining...LOL too easy!!!

Comment by BUD — November 3, 2009 @ 10:38 am
Also gdad allow me to explain it this way. You can only vote for the people running. McDonnell is, in my opinion (which after all is the only thing that matters when I cast a ballot) the most conservative of the two candidates for governor. He more closely represents my beliefs and core values.

Comment by Richard S. — November 3, 2009 @ 10:39 am
@ Bill # 16

I believe gdad, who is a fairly liberal fellow according to his posts, was being sarcastic with his 'pinko-commie' label. As you read his post further, he argues in favor of the ACLU, not against it.

Comment by Mike — November 3, 2009 @ 10:49 am
#20 Point made and I for one am glad the ACLU is around. I may not always agree with them but they are vial is our American way of life.
By the way, the polls were light here in Moneta this morning but people do have to work.

Comment by Bill Hudson — November 3, 2009 @ 11:01 am
Bill H, that was sarcasm. Conservatives always seem to complain about the ACLU while ignoring the truly good stuff they do.

Comment by gdad — November 3, 2009 @ 11:18 am
@21 I agree Bill Hudson, last year there were so many more people who do not work turning out at polls...

Comment by Marked Man (mark) — November 3, 2009 @ 11:18 am
Richard S, seems to me Obama pretty much ran as a liberal. Tell me which of his current policies he hid or suddenly became more radical on.

Comment by gdad — November 3, 2009 @ 11:19 am
#22 Yes very true as always it always seems thing always go to the center in politics in this county. That is why the GOP is having one heck of of time in being driven way too far to the right. As Va. might go to the GOP this time it remembrance of someone yelling (they like to do that) and drinking while they do not noticed that there is a small hole in the boat, well who cares right? Keep sinking the GOP, it is not such a bad idea.

Comment by Bill Hudson — November 3, 2009 @ 11:37 am
@25 ~ you forgot to mention Fixed Faux News Noise. You were on a hot streak.

Comment by Uptheriver — November 3, 2009 @ 11:51 am
@Bud #1: I hear ACorn types are up their old tricks again in JOISEY. More absentee ballots requested than in the last presidential election in Camden area...

3,000 ballots set aside because signatures don't match the one on file..
Dem party lawyers say these ballots should be counted and NOT disqualified by the signature alone....imagine that. Look for a "few late precincts" coming in from Trenton about 11:30 tonight. Do they have Indian reservations in JOISEY??

Bud, this is just the usual noise and nonsense Republicans put up all the time around elections. Somehow, nothing ever seems to come of any of it. You got anything of substance to back any of those allegations?

Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 3, 2009 @ 12:03 pm
#26 Ok, well how about right wing hysteria of fear mongering,GOP taking points (far right wing that is),keeping the Republican Party ideologically pure,imbiciles attacking President Obama for anything, and instilling a McCarthy like references to communism, socialism, liberal thinking, (remember the 50's) kind of network.*
*Please keep in mind the paranoia of the far right can go to some strange places, so this list is incomplete.

Comment by Bill Hudson — November 3, 2009 @ 12:06 pm
"Bud, this is just the usual noise and nonsense Republicans put up all the time around elections"

Kinda like the Dems whining about voter "intimidation" while they send the New Black Panthers out to stand guard at the polls.

You guys (RTEB) are really showing your true colors. Not that we didnt already know.

Comment by T Witten — November 3, 2009 @ 12:14 pm
Dan ... biggovernment.com from 11/1/2009 will corzine allies steal the election?

Comment by BUD — November 3, 2009 @ 12:15 pm
27 Dan,
"Bud, this is just the usual noise and nonsense Republicans put up all the time around elections. Somehow, nothing ever seems to come of any of it. You got anything of substance to back any of those allegations?"

About the same amount of baseless accusations of voter fraud Democrats screeched about in 2000 and 2004. No evidence whatsoever. You guys sayin' this stuff with a straight face? LOL.

Comment by Suzie — November 3, 2009 @ 12:23 pm
@Bud #30: Dan ... biggovernment.com from 11/1/2009 will corzine allies steal the election?

Bud, here's the description of the "author" of the post you cite: "Capitol Confidential are anonymous sources in the halls of power at the federal, state, and local levels."

The site itself appears to be the product of a conservative Washington Times columnist (I know, I repeat myself).

That's some solid substantiation you're offering, Bud.

Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 3, 2009 @ 12:32 pm
The developments in NY 23 are very instructive. They prove conservative candidates prevail and "moderate" Republicans are really Democrats, and therefore not trustworthy.

This totally annihilates all the "advice" Demorats dispense on how the GOP should go with moderates and throw "the right" overboard.

Comment by Suzie — November 3, 2009 @ 12:33 pm
If the Dems are so innocent of voter fraud, why do they scream every time voter ID is brought up?

Comment by Patrick — November 3, 2009 @ 12:38 pm
Every 16 years, the cycle repeats. Every 16 years, we get a new Democrat disaster, followed very quickly by buyer's remorse. In 1960, 1976, 1992, and 2008, we elected green incompetent Democrats and quickly regretted it.

Voters either don't remember or are too young to remember the last Democrat disaster each time, then have to learn or relearn the hard way.

Comment by Suzie — November 3, 2009 @ 12:51 pm
@Suzie #33: Rabid conservatives took a solid Republican seat with a right-moderate candidate, hounded her out of the campaign in favor of a far-right ideologue who doesn't even live in the district. Though the district has voted Republican since the 18th century, the Democrat is within 5 points in the latest polls.

Yeah, that's the path Republicans ought to take.

If they want to wander in the wilderness forever.

Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 3, 2009 @ 12:52 pm
#35 Your using the word green incompetent bring to mind the face of baby Bush. The guy really got us in a mess but we are working on it.
By the way you should just hear what baby Bush use to say, go to u-tube, really funny stuff, it really is.

Comment by Bill Hudson — November 3, 2009 @ 12:59 pm
@ Dan #36:

How was the Republican a Republican in anything but name. Scozzafava was for the stimulus bill, pro-cap and trade, and said she would vote for the healthcare plan. Why on earth would a Republican vote for her when there is a real Democrat on the ballot?

How is this any different than the far-left pushing Lieberman off the Democratic ticket three years ago? It would be so refreshing if the RT would sometimes apply the same standard universally.

Comment by Mike — November 3, 2009 @ 1:01 pm
Right moderate candidate??? man who knew??..she was so RIGHT MODERATE she quit the race and endorsed the democrat!

Comment by BUD — November 3, 2009 @ 1:06 pm
Dan,
"Moderate-right" LOL. Can you name any conservative position Scozzofava held? She was a liberal and proved it by endorsing the Democrat Owens after dropping out. It speaks VOLUMES about the people's wishes when a conservative third-party candidate can come in late, and force the liberal Republican out of the race.

And again, to correct you as I have to do frequently on this topic, there is no such thing as a "far right ideologue"; not when the majority of Americans agree with them on the majority of issues.

Comment by Suzie — November 3, 2009 @ 1:06 pm
37 Bill,
Yeah. Let's examine the "Bush mess". 14,000 DOW. 4.9% unemployment. A clear plan and victory in a middle-east war. 30 straight quarters of economic expansion. People would love to be in the "Bush mess" again.

Comment by Suzie — November 3, 2009 @ 1:12 pm
As much as the right would like to cast today's election as a referendum on the president, it is actually a litmus test of the Republican party. The election in upstate New York is the one to watch. Can the party be hijacked by the likes of Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin? Will millions of moderate Republicans suddenly find they have more in common with Democrats? Does the far-right fringe actually believe they have majority support? George W. Bush decimated the Republican brand, the teabaggers will finish the job.

Comment by Art Hill — November 3, 2009 @ 1:23 pm
#40 You are contradicting yourself. On one hand you say there is no such thing as far right ideologue and yet someone from your own party get pushed out by outside money because she does not tow the far right wing party line.
You are outside the mainstream and that is not a bad thing as long as your numbers do not grow.
Just a look this summer at those nuts the tea baggies.

Comment by Bill Hudson — November 3, 2009 @ 1:29 pm
#41 No, we will not like to be in that mess again, that is why the GOP loss remember? Your statement clear plain and victory in the middle east is just plain funny. You should read some,do do not take my word ,take it from the folks who were on the inside.
“You continue to pursue a failed strategy that is breaking our great Army and Marine Corps.-General Batiste-speaking of years with Bush
"Anything that doesn't fit into the political appointees' ideological, theological or political agenda is ignored, marginalized or simply buried,"- Dr. Richard Carmona former surgeon general appointed by President George W. Bush

Comment by Bill Hudson — November 3, 2009 @ 1:42 pm
@42 ~ Is that the MSNBC teaser?

Section 23 is my hometown section of NY and is insanely democrat with liberal ideaology. It would be a pretty serious knock on Obama and liberal's doors if Hoffman won, which I doubt he will. It's the same ole as expected if the democrat wins.

To phrase it another way. If Hoffman won it would be as shocking as Vermont flipping Republican..

Comment by Uptheriver — November 3, 2009 @ 1:48 pm
@Uptheriver #45: Section 23 is my hometown section of NY and is insanely democrat with liberal ideaology. It would be a pretty serious knock on Obama and liberal's doors if Hoffman won, which I doubt he will. It's the same ole as expected if the democrat wins.

Seriously? The "same ole as expected" if a Democrat takes the seat for the first time since the Civil War? Doubtful.

Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 3, 2009 @ 1:57 pm
@45 Sorry, Uptheriver, but you are simply incorrect. New York's 23rd Congressional District is a Republican stronghold. The Republican in recent elections has taken two-thirds or more of the vote. That the Democrat is even competitive this year speaks volumes.

Comment by C. Trejbal — November 3, 2009 @ 1:58 pm
#45 No, I do not think that was a teaser of MSNBC. Your GOP is going way to the right and that is why some in your party is trying to bring it back to the center.
But as to NY, if you were around in the early 70's it was the Clearwater project that helped clean up that dirty river, so thank a liberal when you get a chance,it will not hurt.

Comment by Bill Hudson — November 3, 2009 @ 2:03 pm
@ Dan and Christian:

So if a district that traditionally goes to one party is close in this election means that there's a trend afoot, how do we fit CA-10 in? That is a Democratic stronghold with a Republican coming close. Is that the same as NY-23? Is NY-23 the same as CT's Senate race in 2006 when Lamont pushed Lieberman out from the left?

Again, folks, let's try to apply some consistent standards rather than logical gymnastics in order to fit in with our own world view.

Comment by Mike — November 3, 2009 @ 2:07 pm
Mike, you call 10 points "coming close"? Really?

Someone's engaging in logical gymnastics to fit the facts to their worldview, but it's not me or Christian.

Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 3, 2009 @ 2:13 pm
"New York's 23rd Congressional District is a Republican stronghold" - C. Trejbal 11/3/2009

"Obama wins NY-23 52-47" Congressional Quarterly Politics 11/08

http://innovation.cq.com/atlas/district_08

Never let the facts get in the way, fellows

Comment by Mike — November 3, 2009 @ 2:15 pm
Yep, and despite that, according to your own link, the Republican took the congressional seat (which is the election we're talking about here, you know), 65-34.

Sounds like a Republican stronghold to me.

Oh, and need I mention again: The seat has been held by Republicans since the Civil War.

Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 3, 2009 @ 2:20 pm
@ Dan #50:

Closing the gap from a 34 point margin in CA-10 last year to a 10% margin this year would be consistent with closing the 29 point margin in NY-23 to the 8% gap that currently separates the Dem and independent today.

The whif of desparation.

Comment by Mike — November 3, 2009 @ 2:32 pm
42 Art,
It's an invention of the left that most Republicans don't share the views of Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck. Again, and for the 50th time, most of America agrees with those three on all the major issues; abortion, gay marriage, 0bamacare, and tax cuts over more spending. The liberals are the extremists. 0bama is a far-left extremist. Keith Olbermann is a far-left extremist. The RTEB are far-left extremists.

I have to laugh as the left tries its best to marginalize Limbaugh and FOX news while their ratings continue to soar, mopping up all liberal comers.

Comment by Suzie — November 3, 2009 @ 2:49 pm
"Yeah, that's the path Republicans ought to take.

If they want to wander in the wilderness forever."

Do you REALLY think the GOP is going to take advice from a LIBERAL DEMOCRAT JOURNALIST?

Really?

I mean, I know you have their best interest at heart Dan. Of course you do!

If ANY one of the GOP candidates win today...it is because they attracted moderates and independents.

Comment by T Witten — November 3, 2009 @ 2:58 pm
@54

It's an invention of the left that most Republicans don't share the views of Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck.

Au contraire, we hope they do.

Comment by Art Hill — November 3, 2009 @ 2:58 pm
My faith in Virginia and America is being restored today. I was starting to think the trolley was off the tracks, that America had too many gullible non-producers calling the shots.

Hopefully this painful detour onto the precipice of socialism will serve as a warning that will last for decades. I think independents have snapped out of it, are embarrassed they were hookwinked last year, and are determined to make it right.

I really wish there were a mechanism in our constitution by which we could remove a disastrous president after one year if enough citizens acknowledged their grave error.

Comment by Suzie — November 3, 2009 @ 3:01 pm
#47, Does that mean Goodlatte's district is a Republican stronghold based on your criteria? Didn't Jim Olin hold that seat for 10 years?

Huh?

Comment by Bob H — November 3, 2009 @ 3:04 pm
Mem>"Yeah, that's the path Republicans ought to take.
If they want to wander in the wilderness forever."

Going the strong conservative route is apparently working pretty well in blue-state Virginia, so your advice means so much, Dan. LOL.

Comment by Suzie — November 3, 2009 @ 3:14 pm
It's not just me guys. Even conservatives - ooh, they must not be real conservatives - think the radicals are making a huge mistake:

In the case of far right conservatives who think that they can turn their meager numbers into a ruling majority all by themselves, the disconnect from reality would normally call for an intervention - except they reject anything from anybody who doesn’t agree with them 100%. Nor can they seem to grasp complex political realities that would complicate their simplistic, ignorant view that their idea of what constitutes a “conservative” reigns supreme all across the land.

Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 3, 2009 @ 3:22 pm
#60 Well put, yes in a way they have to always be right 100% of the time. It says so in their play book. They have a scrip to go by and if someone goes off the page they start to say the nuttiness things like:
Obama is not an American citizen
Re-education camps for young people, where young people have to go and get trained in a philosophy that the government puts forward and then they have to go to work in some of these politically correct forums.
The nut Larry Sinclair who wanted us to believe the President involving gay sex and murder.
Is Obama the Antichrist? Some really think so, it says it in the bible wow these people come out so some crazy stuff.
Obama was an "Indonesian Muslim" and a "welfare thug. Do they think the FBI might of check that one, oh that's right they are with the government, they're in it too.
Did Hugo Chavez fund the Obama campaign? Via fixed network.
There must be more and I am sure you from the way right will find something.

Comment by Bill Hudson — November 3, 2009 @ 3:39 pm
No live blog today from Deeds headquarters?? Wonder if Deeds will have an inauguration party and plan for 5 million people (even though only about 800,000 will actually show up)??

Comment by Marked Man (mark) — November 3, 2009 @ 3:49 pm
@46 ~ Since the Civil War? Am I reading this wrong? I see quite a few democrats and for the record let me clarify a little better. If the Hoffman's idealogue wins in that section of NY Obama has something to fear... I have lived here for five year's now and can tell you, that Virginia and New York are two different worlds in terms of politics. I had no idea what conservative was until I moved here. That part of New York... Mainly Oswego, Plattsburgh, Watertown, Adirondacks (the places I have lived and know quite well) is highly liberal in their views.
Dede, fit like a glove into those views, not the views of conservatives or republicans. Like I said, it would be as insane if Vermont flipped republican (also living there).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York's_23rd_congressional_district

See 1843 - Present.

Comment by Uptheriver — November 3, 2009 @ 4:02 pm
60 Dan,
Correct. Rick Moran, blogger of the site you linked is a moderate, not a conservative. His piece appear frequently in the Moderate Voice blog, which is a big fan of his. I keep asking you WHY we should care what moderates or liberals think about conservatism.

Comment by Suzie — November 3, 2009 @ 4:05 pm
If Hoffman wins, it will be a win for CONSERVATIVISM not the GOP. Likewise, with McDonnell.

Thats what really bothers/scares you libs isn't it.

So what if NY 23 is a GOP-run district since the Civil War...as Uptheriver said, people up there are LIBERAL for the most part. Those running the show were liberals, RINO's.

Hoffman's victory would signal a massive defeat of the liberal (Scozzafava,Owens,0bama) philosophy.

THAT is what bothers you. You all actually thought that everyone was cool with 0bama's liberal, STATIST policies. Well, we'll see tonight.

NJ is too corrupt to wake up from their nightmare. They will stick with Corzine.

NY 23 might go to Hoffman...BIG win!

VA is definitely going for McDonnell...the experiment is over.

Comment by T Witten — November 3, 2009 @ 4:11 pm
#63 As to Vermont you might be waiting a very, very long time.Thanks the heavens for Bernie Sanders.

Comment by Bill Hudson — November 3, 2009 @ 4:11 pm
#65 your comment as to the experiment is over, well, we are just getting started. There is another 3 years and maybe another 4 more years. And yes conservatism is with the GOP that is why there is so much infighting right now with that party.

Comment by Bill Hudson — November 3, 2009 @ 4:20 pm
@Uptheriver #63: Well, redistricting makes it difficult to nail down, and I'll admit I had just taken the word of the many journalists and pundits who have been saying the district has been held by Republicans since the Civil War. The truth is a bit more complicated. As you can see from the map, a good chunk of the current district indeed has not been represented by a Democrat since the 1850s. Some portions of it were represented by a Democrat as late as 1978.

As the page linked above says, "Almost two-thirds of the population of the current district (62%) live in territory that has not elected a Democrat since 1890 or earlier."

In any case, the district is clearly a longtime Republican stronghold.

Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 3, 2009 @ 4:25 pm
While were getting our knickers twisted looking for meaning in elections that are not even over yet, what do people think of the two gay rights referendums on the ballot.

In Washington (state) voters will decide whether to uphold a same-sex domestic partnership law passed be the legislature that gives all the rights of marriage except the name.

In Maine, voters will decide whether to reject a full same-sex marriage law.

The most recent polling I saw prior to election day showed both siding with the same-sex couples.

Comment by C. Trejbal — November 3, 2009 @ 4:32 pm
#60,

Dan, this sounds like a little disingenuous on your part. You are a confessed LIBERAL. Therefore, why the preoccupation with what conservatives are doing, especially if they are going the wrong direction?

Very dubious of this......

Comment by Bob H — November 3, 2009 @ 4:33 pm
The reason why conservatives, and liberals for that matter, ought to care what moderates and independents think is that those in the middle often take views that are liberal for some issues and conservative for others. If either side comes off as too extreme on the issues for which those in the middle disagree, they won't support that side. I used to lean Republican years ago, but the more noticable tilt toward the religious side has turned me away from voting Republican, even though there are numerous point I agree with the party on. However, I likewise have trouble with the Democrats because of some of the hardline stances that party has taken, so I never really have any candidate that I feel is worthy of my vote. Generally, I'm able to find a third party candidate that comes close, but considering that 3rd parties are about as relevant today as owning a BetaMax player, it doesn't do a whole heck of a lot. I generally tire of trying to figure out the least worst option of the candidates running, because it seems as though neither party has the competence to nominate a person capable of doing the job for which they are campaigning. Maybe some of the tough conservative rhetoric has pulled some folks from the middle ground over, but it's driven folks like me away as well. Fundamentally, i don;t think the country is really all that different today than it ever has been, I think it all comes down to who can motivate the voters best and garner the best turnout from their core. And this go round, the Republicans and McDonnell have done a much better job than Deeds and the Democrats, and I suspect they will be rewarded with a clean sweep. I don't like that outcome, but I never was convinced that the Democrat ticket showed themselves to be ready or capable of doing the job needed.

Comment by Other John — November 3, 2009 @ 4:36 pm
@48 - It's not my GOP party. I am registered as an independent. I will say the past 5 years have taught me I'm more conservative than liberal, but I'm certainly not far right, to add I didn't vote for Bush either time if that helps.

Comment by Uptheriver — November 3, 2009 @ 4:37 pm
@72 "I didn't vote for Bush either time if that helps."

And we won't hold that against you.

Comment by T Witten — November 3, 2009 @ 4:48 pm
@Bob #70: Bob, I am a liberal, but I am not a partisan. And I am not an ideologue. The worst thing that could happen to this nation, I believe, would be an extended period of one-party rule, whether Republican or Democrat. I also believe that the increasing political polarization and the disappearance of moderates from both parties (but especially the Republican Party, which has been in purge mode for some time) in Congress has been a wretched development that makes good government much more difficult to achieve - especially when the true believers on the Republican side don't believe good government is even possible.

I believe in reasoned debate about ideas and policies. We're seeing less and less of that in Congress, and that trend will only accelerate if extreme conservatives take over the Republican Party. I want to see good ideas coming from both parties, from liberals and conservatives - and third parties if they can gain traction. Then I want the best ideas to win.

Both parties today are only concerned about power - either keeping it or getting it back. Neither is serving this nation well.

I want to have a better choice of candidates than we had this time. I want to be able to endorse Republicans in good conscience.

I doubt you'll believe any of this, Bob, since you don't believe anything we have to say here. But it is true.

Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 3, 2009 @ 4:49 pm
@71 Agree 100% on the first two sentences.

Comment by Uptheriver — November 3, 2009 @ 4:52 pm
The teabaggers should ask themselves just who is behind this
Fox-led campaign to destroy the Republican party? Scozzafava's defection to the Democrats is a dire warning of things to come.

Comment by Art Hill — November 3, 2009 @ 4:56 pm
@ Dan #68

"In any case, the district is clearly a longtime Republican stronghold"

How so? The district, as currently drawn, voted for Obama over McCain by a 5% margin.

Comment by Mike — November 3, 2009 @ 4:59 pm
I remember years ago down in Hampton Roads, we had some party moderates down there that garnered a huge margin of support from folks from a wide spectrum. There was a somewhat conservative Democrat in my home district. He was pro-choice (which probably was why he was a Democrat), but he was very strong for the military, veterans affairs, gun rights, and helping the business community. As a result, he usually got in the neighborhood of 70% of the vote, easily. There were also some republicans down there who were srong supporters of the business community and the military, but who held less staunch social views and sometimes supported higher taxes when the need made sense. I don't think any of them are still in office now, they either retired or got beat by hardline partisans in the years since I left. Unfortunately, as Dan mentioned, the intermingling of partisan ideology with the 2 parties has hurt the middle ground, who sees both parties as too extreme for what they believe. Sometimes, there may be a candidate we can support, but most often I don't like any of them. I think we've had the 2 party system for too long, and need to have some other parties emerge to help be the voice for people who don't like the Democrats or Republicans. It would either help keep them more honest and on task, or it would divide the power even further away from one group controlling the show and force greater cooperation among competing groups of people to accomplish legislative agendas. As we've seen in our recent history, one party rule at all levels of the government has been disasterous, regardless of who that party has been.

Comment by Other John — November 3, 2009 @ 4:59 pm
Art - You have it wrong the Tea Parties are a dire warning to the pols of things to come. As will Hoffmans election in NY23.

Comment by Walker — November 3, 2009 @ 5:11 pm
OJ we didn't have one PARTY rule, we had one POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY rule. And that philosophy was GROW DC's power and influence...We have grown the feds power in education, security, social spending, military etc etc. Thank God Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Bush, Hastert, Lott have overplayed their hand because the nation is awakening..at least I hope so.

Comment by BUD — November 3, 2009 @ 5:39 pm
#71 Other John,

You know, back when I voted for Nixon, I wasn't really much on the Republican/Democrat party stances, I just voted for who I felt would do the best job of giving me the least amount of what I didn't want.

Same when I vote Reagan the first term ( I didn't vote the second term) Then Bush, then Clinton, then Gore.

By the late 1990's I was really becoming turned off by the "Give us everything" stance of Republicans, with the ideology first, what's good for the country second posturing, which has only gotten worse over the last decade.

When I Voted Holton, Godwin, Dalton, Coleman, Baliles, Wilder,Allen, Beyer,Early and Kaine, Party was irrelevant. How they advised they would handle the issues I felt affected me were more important.

Some won, some lost.

Today is no different.

Comment by joe Mostowey — November 3, 2009 @ 6:00 pm
#79 I hope you tea party takes over the GOP and then you will have done the work for us. Because this nut might win in Va. does not mean a mandate on the rest of our nation, just means your party is moving too far to the right.

Comment by Bill Hudson — November 3, 2009 @ 6:07 pm
You people act like something's changed since 1980. It hasn't. Social conservatives were the only Republicans to national elections then, and it's the same today. The notion of the "far right" taking over the party is a creation of the left. Most Americans, let alone Republicans hold the same views the "far right" does, meaning the "far right" doesn't exist. I don't know why nobody sees this.

Comment by Suzie — November 3, 2009 @ 6:29 pm
#83 There you go again it's now a creation of the left? You might want to hear some from your own party. It is NOT the same party, in no way.
There are reports coming in from NY where the cops had to be called in because some 200 out of towers pro-life folks are getting a bit out of hand at the polling station.
The far right is I am afraid very much here. Look pass your nose and you can see it.So yes something has change but I guess you do not see it.

Comment by Bill Hudson — November 3, 2009 @ 6:43 pm
Bill, Your definition of the "far right" consists of over 150 million people, then. Quite a fringe group, isn't it?

Comment by Suzie — November 3, 2009 @ 8:42 pm
Suzie Wrote "Bill, Your definition of the "far right" consists of over 150 million people, then. Quite a fringe group, isn't it?"

You do realize what those numbers mean?

It means that Obama was elected by a majority of "Far Right" Voters.

Comment by joe Mostowey — November 3, 2009 @ 9:36 pm
Joe 86, Uhh, no it doesn't. It was mostly a different set of people voting for 0bama. The country has 305,000 million people.

Comment by Suzie — November 3, 2009 @ 10:08 pm
Dan #32..keep shooting the messenger..you can't disprove what was reported. I didn't pull that lame stunt with YOUR site.

Comment by BUD — November 4, 2009 @ 7:01 am
Bud, I asked if you could substantiate your allegations. You attempted to do so by citing an anonymous source from a right-wing blog.

I merely pointed out that fact.

Sorry if that bothered you.

And, apparently, the vote stealers didn't do a very good job, did they?

Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 4, 2009 @ 7:20 am
@Mike #53: Closing the gap from a 34 point margin in CA-10 last year to a 10% margin this year would be consistent with closing the 29 point margin in NY-23 to the 8% gap that currently separates the Dem and independent today.

The whif of desparation.

Let's see. How did that turn out? Oh, yeah. The Democrat won in New York, beating the ultra-conservative. Conservative activists cost Republicans a seat in Congress. Good job. Oh, and that race in California that Mike thought would be so close? The Democrat won by more than 10 percent.

A whiff of what?

Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 4, 2009 @ 8:54 am
@ Dan #90:

I realize you are upset about the results from last night (an 18% victory for an 'ultra conservative' (RTEB label) and a 26 point swing from last year's race at the top of the ballot in VA), but let's not get testy.

Most news organizations pointed out at the time President Obama tapped John McHugh to be the Secretary of the Army that one of the motives for doing so was that NY-23 could be flipped. While you have mistakenly said that NY-23 has been staunchly Republican since the Civil War, the historical record shows that Pres. Obama carried the district by 5 points a year ago, Mike McNaulty (D-NY 23) held it as recently as 1993, and an underfunded political novice *improved* upon the percentage McCain received just 364 days ago.

You go ahead and hang your hat on the fact that in NY-23 a Democrat won by 4.5 points in a district where Pres. Obama won by 5 points last year.

The great thing is that other news organizations will help paint the more realistic national picture, which accounts for a 26 point swing in VA (along with a sweep of statewide office holders) and that a deep blue state like NJ, which voted for Obama at a 57% clip in 2008 just elected a Republican Governor. Thankfully, the front page of the RT will have the syndicated version of those news agency's stories.

Comment by Mike — November 4, 2009 @ 9:25 am
@Mike #91:

The point you miss when you talk about a Democrat holding it in 1993 is that the district was redrawn between then and 2003, almost completely. Take a look at the Wikipedia link you cited above, but look at the components of the district and how the counties covered by the district have changed:

1913–1919
Parts of Manhattan
1919–1969
Parts of The Bronx
1969–1971
Parts of The Bronx, Manhattan
1971–1973
Parts of The Bronx
1973–1983
Parts of The Bronx, Westchester
1983–1993
All of Albany, Schenectady
Parts of Montgomery, Rensselaer
1993–2003
All of Chenango, Madison, Oneida, Otsego
Parts of Broome, Delaware, Herkimer, Montgomery, Schoharie
2003–present
All of Clinton, Franklin, Hamilton, Jefferson, Lewis, Madison, Oswego, St. Lawrence
Parts of Essex, Fulton, Oneida

The district represented by a Democrat in 1993 is completely different than the one that voted yesterday - and the on that voted yesterday consists of a population the majority of which hasn't voted for a Democrat since the Civil War.

Oh, and sorry if my first post came across as testy. I didn't intend it that way.

Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 4, 2009 @ 10:11 am
Dan:

I don't think I cited a wiki page; I used CQ.

And fair enough on the portions of the district point (I based my comments on your comment in post #52 "Oh, and need I mention again: The seat has been held by Republicans since the Civil War.").

The issue I see with calling NY-23 a Republican bastion is that Obama carried it with some ease last year, and he picked up McHugh as SoA in part because the district was in play (not an uncommon play by new presidents of either party). I suppose we just put different weight on the importance of the results in the district.

Sorry if I misinterpreted your tone in #90. My guess is that we were both up fairly late last night watching returns roll in and up fairly early to comment on them.

Comment by Mike — November 4, 2009 @ 10:19 am
Sorry, Mike. You are correct. That was Uptheriver@63. But the point stands: The composition of the district has changed dramatically through redistricting, and the point about the counties now represented by the district leaning heavily Republican for generations - the anomaly of Obama's win there notwithstanding - is valid.

Anyway, NY-23 is a small part of what happened last night, but I remain convinced that Republican activists will be making a mistake if they think going hard right is the answer to the GOP's problems.

Comment by Dan Radmacher — November 4, 2009 @ 10:28 am
Dan 90
"Let's see. How did that turn out? Oh, yeah. The Democrat won in New York, beating the ultra-conservative. Conservative activists cost Republicans a seat in Congress"

Putting the conservative in the race was an excellent move because Scozzafava would vote for the 0bama agenda anyway, including 0bamacare (assuming the bill even comes to a vote). Having a Republican vote for it would have provided Democrats with political cover. Now it's just another Democrat, and his term will last exactly one year.
In addition, a great message was sent to all Republicans, and that is, they had better pick candidates in tune with the majority of Americans, instead of Democrat-lite "moderates".

Comment by Suzie — November 4, 2009 @ 10:35 am
Hoffman will be back. Look how close it was after, what, a two week campaign?

Owens can have the spot for a year.

Does anybody know why this spot was available in the first place? Hmmmm? Anyone?

Comment by T Witten — November 4, 2009 @ 10:59 am