2008.10.02
Tough times of '30s recalled
In these days of increasing financial uncertainty, it's worth noting that many Southwest Virginians went through even worse times. In the early 1930s, they and the rest of the country were trying to survive the Great Depression.
Imagine if you can the day word got around that developer John Senter had submitted the low bid to build the new William Fleming High School. The next morning, the builder awoke in his Maiden Lane home in Raleigh Court and looked outside.
"Literally [between] 150 and 200 men were standing on the lot adjacent to his home, in total silence, just hoping for a job," Senter's great-nephew Sam Lionberger recalled Wednesday afternoon, sharing the story his great-uncle had told him years earlier.
"He said he'll never ever forget that scene."
Over the past 75 years, lots of things have changed. Senter's company is now Lionberger Construction. The school he built in the county is now Roanoke's Breckinridge Middle School.
But echoes of the collapsing economy that plunged the nation into despair for a nearly a decade are being heard again. That's sending shivers through some folks who remember it.
"I'd hate to see that come back again," said Al Holland, 91, of Roanoke. Born in 1916, he was a teen when the stock market crashed in 1929, triggering the Depression. "If it's any way we can get a stop on this ... " Holland said of the free-falling economy, his voice trailing off.
As politicians in Washington scramble to stop an economic calamity, Holland was one of four elderly Southwest Virginians who took time this week to recount memories of an era that marked their lives.
One told accounts of her father's customers paying him not with cash but with food and other crops. Another recounted a nomadic life as his father crisscrossed the country looking for work, and yet another remembers standing in a Roanoke milk line.
Lionberger was born in 1940 after the Depression. But when his father graduated with a civil engineering degree in 1932, no jobs were available. He landed a job with the Civilian Conservation Corps, one of President Roosevelt's economic recovery programs.
"Fortunately, I don't think we're anywhere near that," Lionberger said, comparing the current economic situation with the Depression. "There are more safeguards now. But people who went through that period, they have a common tendency to be very frugal."
Emily Stuart of Blacksburg was a young girl in Douglas, Ga., in the early '30s. To this day, the retired YMCA director, now 88, watches her budget closely.
In 1930, Stuart was 10 when the Depression tightened its grip on the nation. She recalls childhood Christmas gifts that consisted each year of a book, a doll and fruit.
"I just remember the devastation of it all," she said.
Stuart remembers the days when people knocked on her family's back door, asking for something -- anything -- to eat. Her mother always managed to find something.
Her father owned a hardware store, so he was a mainstay for farmers who needed seeds and other supplies. Often, they couldn't afford to pay him. Many couldn't pay with money. They didn't have it.
"They brought in food. They'd bring in ham. ... He would let them buy on credit."
In 1933, Stuart's brother was accepted into Duke University. But her father didn't have money to send him. Stuart said right before her brother was supposed to leave, one of her father's customers came to the house.
"I've been owing you," the man told Stuart's father, and gave him a bale of cotton. That helped cover her brother's tuition for that fall; he graduated from Duke four years later.
Stuart's husband, Bob, 90, moved from La Crosse, Wis., to North Carolina then back to Madison, Wis., while his father pursued different textile mill jobs. The family landed in Lafayette, Ga., where Bob Stuart graduated from high school.
"Every year in high school, I was making new friends," said the retired Virginia Tech professor. "The family was preoccupied with survival."
By Depression standards, Holland's family fared relatively well. His father, a blacksmith for Norfolk and Western Railway, never lost his job. His stay-at-home mother occasionally took in laundry. His parents' garden was "their stopgap."
But Holland was not immune to the Depression. He remembers the Red Cross flour giveaway and the lines for milk.
Now 84, Bob Hale remembers standing in the milk line once. He was a preschooler, about 5 or 6. His mother was a schoolteacher, and his father was in a wheelchair. He had three siblings.
"Mama really had to take care of all of us. In the summer, she'd go up to Connecticut and do day work."
Like others around them, the Hales made do and everybody chipped in. Young Bob would do odd jobs. Often, his pay was pop bottles. He'd redeem them for 2 cents. His mother would go to the market at closing time. A vendor might be a few potatoes short of "a peck," so he would give them to her.
Many meals didn't include meat, and his mother did a lot of canning, Hale said.
"You were poor, but you really didn't know," said Hale, a retired musician. "This is the way it was. So you didn't think about it."
Holland sees some distinct similarities in today's crisis and the one of his young years.
"People were taking money out of their account," he said of the Depression-era run on banks. "It's almost running simultaneous with right now."
He chuckled. "I called this morning to check on my money. They still have some in there for me."
EVERY single thing Marx prophesied has come TRUE. Every last thing. Capitalism DIED in 1929 (whether you want to admit it or not) because of nothing but pure GREED, just like 'Ol Karl said it would. 90% of the corporations in existence today would be gone tomorrow if not for GOVERNMENT CORPORATE WELFARE, which, by the way is borne on the backs of the WORKING taxpayers. There was never "communisim" in the USSR as Marx envisioned communism. It was STALINISM and it was as different as night and day from true "communisim". This country will be far, far, better off if the present Congress dosen't insist on raping the taxpayers and just let the market find it's own level and cure itself. Pouring more taxpayer money into Wall Street will do NOTHING but build another house of cards, CERTAIN to fall again. The ONLY politicians that will support this bill are those that have been BOUGHT AND PAID FOR. They ALL need to go up against the wall. B. Hussein Obama or John McBush either one could have already WON the election if they had just said "No, this is wrong, it dosen't help the PEOPLE", but the didn't, because they BOTH have been BOUGHT AND PAID FOR. Just like ALL the rest.
So if there are still those of you out there FOOL enough to waste your time "voting", write in Darlene Burcham for Congress. We KNOW the present Congressman can't count above 10, because that's the number of years he said he'd limit himself to, and all the talking heads on TV are telling people about some number of 700,000,000,000. We can't expect a person who can't count above 10 to begin to understand that. So....elect Darlene!!! Since she likes to shut things down when she finds "mice", just imagine what she could do with all the RATS she'll find in DC!!! Can't you imagine 'Ol Ding-A-Ling shutting down the whole guv'mint because of RATS??? hahahahaha Write her name in folks!!! It'll be the cartoon of the century!!!!
Comment by Karl Marx was RIGHT — October 2, 2008 @ 3:31 pm
I'm not sure what the point of this article is? Shanna maybe you can enlighten me. Do you REALLY think we are close to something like this again? I just recently got a loan for $10,000 for new windows. Do you know why?
I got a loan because I am a SOLID candidate for a loan. I can pay it back Shanna.
I think an article about (A) WHY our "leaders" in Washington have allowed/caused this to happen would be more appropriate given that the election is so near.
Can you tell me the origin of this mortagage debacle? Try looking into Fannie Mae. (B)Look and see who started this failed quasi-governmental organization. (C) Who ran Fannie Mae and where are they now?
Please tell us who (D)defended the solvency and "strength" of Fannie Mae only three years ago.
Also, could you please report to us who (E)actually WARNED us that, due to Fannie Mae's instability, this mortagage and financial crisis could happen?
Better yet, here are the answers.
(A)Social Engineering and kickbacks, greed.
(B)The Clinton Administration
(C)Franklin Raines, now a "housing" advisor for Barack 0bama, he drove the company into the ground and walked away with $90 million.
(D)Barney Frank and the Democrats ""These two entities—Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—are not facing any kind of financial crisis," said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."
(E)John McCain, co-sponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005.
Look it up.
This column is what we in journalism call "a good read." Plenty of national writers have written about the points you raised, which is why you were able to google them. No one has written about Al Holland, Emily and Bob Stuart and Bob Hale and their experiences. That's why I did it.---s
Comment by Tom — October 2, 2008 @ 3:36 pm
You"borrowed $10,000 for windows" because you were "SOLID candidate"? Not really. A "SOLID candidate" would have paid CASH, or waited until they could, and told the money lenders to stick their silly interest rates where the sun don't shine. There's nothing SOLID about borrowing money. Unless you mean it shows a SOLID lack of discipline and common sense.
Comment by Percy Kution — October 2, 2008 @ 5:53 pm
Tom:
I'm voting for McCain, but I thoroughly enjoyed what was intended to be a discussion of individual perceptions of the current crisis. And I'm pretty nervous about the current situation myself, despite having confidence that I'll personally be able to weather the storm, and that I won't need help from any bank to do it. But I worry about small businesses and the low to middle income families and people who have to work a half day just to be able to afford to get to and from work. And I'm interested, too, in hearing what the Great Depression was from the good folks who lived through it. How Shanna finds all these folks is beyond me.
Comment by Mike — October 2, 2008 @ 10:29 pm
Understood folks. I didn't mean for my post to come off as harshly as it did. I just think that in times like these, economically and politically, we should refrain from screaming Depression loudly or writing a "good read" story such as this that may create the same response.
The media and the Democrats have screamed for two years now that we were in a recession. The fact is, our economy was NOT in one. If you tell people lies long enough they start believing them. I will say again, the paper should do some real journalism and trace this "crisis" back to its origin.
As far as me being a SOLID candidate...clearly I meant for a LOAN, unlike the Fannie Mae candidates that clearly were NOT. Don't believe the hype, the banks have money to lend. That was my point.
Do you really expect this country's stock market to plunge 700 points, the major Wall Street banks to tank and no references of the Great Depression be mentioned? As for your concerns about journalism, in addition to the daily report, last week's Horizon section was entirely about the origins of the Wall Street meltdown. I won't get into the particulars of my job, but generally it is to write about local issues and put a local face on national issues. I did that.---s
Comment by Tom — October 3, 2008 @ 2:21 pm