2008.12.18
Vendors, officials need to listen
In the constant back and forth, mistrust and miscues between Roanoke officials and vendors over the future of the City Market Building, it's a little difficult this season to gauge who's been naughty and who's been nice.
So in the spirit of good will toward men, is it too much to ask the two sides to show a little compassion toward each other as Roanoke tries to hash out how to proceed with downtown's signature building?
The vendors are hurting economically, and who among us can't sympathize with that? But to demand answers from city leaders "before Christmas" about things for which there are no answers yet is unrealistic.
Vendors need to be open-minded enough to accept and appreciate that this is a communitywide endeavor and that lots of voices will be in the mix -- not just theirs.
On the other hand, city officials might not have the answers the vendors crave right now, but they have an obligation to better communicate with these mom and pop business owners.
City leaders can provide reassurance to rattled vendors -- and the community -- by being open and forthcoming with what they know.
Monday, City Manager Darlene Burcham shared some general details for how the market building process will proceed, and Wednesday, Assistant City Manager Brian Townsend reiterated those to me in a telephone interview:
n After the holidays, the city will finalize a contract with an engineering and design consultant. Generally, the process will follow a three-step schedule of events.
n The first step will be for the firm to go over the landmark building, which recently underwent sprucing up after mouse droppings prompted the city to padlock it. The "fact-finding" mission will collect data about the condition of the building and its HVAC, plumbing and electrical systems.
n Next, the city will host a meeting so the public can weigh in with what it wants the building to be. In a community meeting earlier this fall, some suggestions hinted at retail and nightlife.
n Based on that information, the consultant then will devise as many as three conceptual drawings of the market building of the future. The public will again be tapped for its thoughts.
n Ideally, sometime in the spring, the consultant will have a final concept, which likely will draw the most popular ideas from each of the three concepts. The staff will present the final concept to city council, along with a cost estimate.
There are other steps after that, of course, but Townsend guessed that the market building project could go out for bid next fall.
These are just plans, of course, and nothing vendors should pounce on as gospel.
But they give everyone a clearer picture. If things work right, everyone will be properly informed along the way.
I would lean more toward the vendors than the city on this. The city has run the building for how long? And how long has it been in pretty dire need of an overhaul? I think the vendors have been good sports about sticking around in the building despite all its problems and they deserve some answers for how things are going to proceed. Without the vendors, the Market is an empty shell of a building that the City has done a fine job of neglecting over many years until finally forced by the VDH to spruce up by having it shut down. I can only wonder how the Market may have fared if it was privately owned and operated, but i can't imagine it would be done any worse than the City has done. I'll give the vendors the benefit of the doubt every time on the Market...they are the ones who have put up money, their lives, and their livlihoods in operating a business there. The City has just been cashing in on the revenues, risk-free.
Comment by Other John — December 18, 2008 @ 12:45 pm
The article strikes me as is less “opinion” and more propaganda or wishful thinking coming from city Manager Burch am and Assistant City Manager Townsend and attests to a lack of research and ignorance on the part of Ms. Flowers on this matter.
The issue is not between the vendors and officials. The issue is between the owners, who are the taxpaying citizens of Roanoke, those whom they have chosen to conduct their business for them (i.e. elected officials) and the hired help.
Unfortunately, elected officials, at least those of previous councils seemed to have been too ignorant or lazy or both to do what they were elected to do. They were content to allow the hired help to not only carry out policy, but set it as well, albeit rubber-stamped by a docile council. We saw this come to a head earlier this year when Councilman Rosen asked to see information, which he had every right to see, and the City Manager, refused to provide it.
I think that issue has been resolved so that when speaking of The City we are referring to elected members of the council. The City Manager and the rest are the hired help whose job it is to care for day-to-day operations and execute policy set by the City Council, something this council seems inclined to do.
Had Ms. Flowers done her homework she would have learned that the Farmers Market Building has been abysmally managed for the past eight years. First there was Avantis, a contract firm with no local presence and some have opined “favored” in the selection process based on I know not what. It did little more than collect rent from the vendors and ignored all problems brought to their attention. To say that Avantis did an incompetent job is an understatement. Subsequently the Farmers Market has been managed by the City’s Economic Development folks, whose mission in life, according to the City’s website, is to “create and maintain a sustainable standard of living and high quality of life for the citizens of Roanoke”. Duhh! Economic Development’s management of the Market Building has been, in my opinion, more incompetent than Avantis.
Since the closing of the Market Building during September, I have had an ongoing Freedom of Information “discussion” with the hired help. The song and dance I have received from them was amateur hour compared to what I saw during 28 years in the Marine Corps. Suffice it to say I remain convinced the building was closed on a pretext in order to accomplish work the hired help failed to adequately plan for despite having 18 months lead time, given that the opening of the Art Museum was the driving factor. Even worst, the hired help are looking for kudos for the wonderful job they did. Well they didn’t.
Excuse me but doesn’t the city have inspectors who should routinely be inspecting the building minor structural damage, and reporting the same to the landlord? What were they doing for the past nine years? As for who should pay for the repairs, o renters routinely pay to put a new roof on the house.
How did the cooking areas suddenly become fire hazards after years of being passed by fire marshals? As for the health inspectors, what were they doing all this time? In my opinion, had the health officials done the fine tooth comb inspections on, say Awful Arthur’s, Cornerstone, 220 and the other “high end” restaurants in Vibrant 24/7 downtown as done at the Farmers Market there would have been an epidemic of closings. Would the tourists have come had that happened? I think not. Would the business owners rolled over and taken it like the market building vendors? Yeah Right!!
Tis interesting that City Manager Burcham, “shared” on Monday some general details for how the market building process will proceed, with Assistant City Manager Townsend jumping in on Wednesday. Keep in mind they are senior members of the Hired Help. I noted that Ms. Flowers article did not say whether Ms. Burcham’s schedule for the building was the Council’s schedule or even if the council was aware, they had a schedule. Gotta tell you as a city taxpayer and owner of the building I sure as heck wasn’t.
Ms. Flowers may not understand the role of “public input” in the process in Roanoke. The way the process works, or has in the past is the hired help decides what it wants to do, gets “citizen input” and had the Council rubber stamp what it wanted to do despite the input. The purpose of Citizen input, here-to-for, has been for show.
Also, I’m curious what the session at Center in the Square last fall, where 90 percent of those attending said they wanted the market to remain the same, despite the reporting, was called if not “citizen input? Additionally, what about the half-vast “citizen survey” Mr. Townsend had conducted by minions standing outside the Farmer’s Market Building for a day or two? The questions were adequate, the administration flawed and the results overwhelming, leave it alone.
Spare me – another consultant is going to tell us what to do? Consultants are people from out of town carrying a briefcase who tell you what to do, collect their fee and when something goes wrong tells youit was because you didn’t follow directions. Being a consultant was the closest I ever had to holding a dishonest job.
What about the $100,000 wonder study done three years ago, by the local boy who hadn’t lived in Roanoke for twenty years and isn’t worth the paper it is written on? Until convinced otherwise by economic necessity, the hired help said Roanoke’s number one priority was palazzo steps by the walkway from Wachovia Bank to the Hotel Roanoke. Yeah Right!
Actually, I’m skeptical that anything is going to happen in the near future. The blunt fact is Roanoke cannot afford to do much more than the immediate and necessary repairs without floating a bond issue and now is not the time to be selling municipal bonds.
However, if I have not made it clear in the history of the market the fact remains, the landlord’s (City of Roanoke) hired help (City Manger and Economic Development) have not treated the vendors well and that is the polite way of saying it. The purpose the Vendors hired a lawyer was to get the landlord to talk to them, which is a not uncommon practice. The council may be getting bad advice or perhaps they are foolish enough to litigate.
Talking would be much better – or does that scare them?
I suppose I should thank Ms. Flowers for the “uplifting” piece of fiction she has presented to the citizens of Roanoke asking us to be of good cheer and come reason together.
Somehow, I can’t quite find it in myself to do it. I think her piece is irresponsible journalism.
Robert R. Craig
Roanoke, VA
Comment by Robert R. Craig — December 18, 2008 @ 3:07 pm
Ms. Flowers doesnt have a clue about Roanoke and neither does the out of City leaders like Burcham ,Mason and others who arent from here..Thats been the problem with the Stadium issue and now this...If theyre not from here...they could really care less about the Cities Historic buildings..I mean if I was from Detroit or Norfolk...why would I care about Victory Stadium or the Market..
Comment by Larry — December 18, 2008 @ 6:02 pm
Larry
Why would anyone care to write about that which no one speaks of? Where is your mega phone, when are you holding your meeting to speak about those historic buildings and stadium issues so we can meet and comment on them?
I guess what I'm saying is why would she bring attention to something when no else has done so.
Or does it take a native Virginian to criticize a city's lack of initiative to do anything, but point fingers and stare?
Maybe we should sit back in our rockers and wait till the cows come home. Besides the first time I saw Victory Stadium it was under about 6 foot of water and someone told me that was a good day.
Try looking at Chuck Lionberger's Stadium Photos. now those are classic.
Comment by Static Lines — December 18, 2008 @ 8:15 pm
As a non native to the area, Larry, I do like Roanoke's historic buildings. I love the Market building and enjoy the vendors that have chosen to operate their businesses there. I also like Victory Stadium and thought it was a great landmark...though unfortunately located in a place that floods on too regular a basis. The problems with both the market and stadium have little to do with non-natives not caring about them and more about the city no taking care of their own assets. There are plenty of local, native folks in the city government, so why those buildings fell into such direpair, I don't know. Part of progress for any city is equal parts of history and progressive vision. Roanoke is long on history but short on adequate preservation of it and lacking on visions for the future. That's a big part of why Roanoke has fallen so far behind other cities that were of similar size back in the 50's. Roanoke has not grown, adapted, or changed through time. It has sat relatively stagnant and the leaders have been all too happy to oblige the people who want progress. It's starting to change now, but it's late in the game. Roanoke has fallen behind other regions in many respects, but all is not lost. There are still many great historic monuments around, wonderful surroundings, a plethora of outdoor activities, an improving cultural side, and expanding higher education opportunities around. TO add a final point, I am from Virginia Beach (Norfolk's neighbor), and like I said, I did care about the stadium and do care about the Market. They were/are Roanoke landmarks like the Mill Mountain Star, H&C Coffee sign, and countless other symbols of the region that help to make it a unique place. Now is the time to begin working on adding to that list though, rather than simply trying to hang on to what's already here and not moving forward.
Comment by Other John — December 19, 2008 @ 10:20 am
I remember as a child and teen in Roanoke some 30 years ago, "The Market" at night had drag queens soliciting customers by walking the sidewalks around the "Market Building" showing what they had to offer. Every crusing high school teen would drive "The Market" on their Williamson Road cruise to take in that sight. Then of course there were the bums who got drunk and passed out in doorways of the businesses at night. The area sort of smelled of urine, I assume due to the bums. I guess all of us from different generations remember this area for different things. My grandfather remembered it when it was a market and up until his death still went to "the market" to buy this or that. My mother loved a bakery that was located in "The Market Building" - their cupcakes "were the best" she declared. She likely kept that vendor in business for much of it's life.
Thanks to the military I now live in Hawaii and come back to Roanoke usually when there has been some "family" matter I have to attend to. My last trip there left me with a terrible sinking feeling. The "Market Building" was built to last and although it was run down during my teen years it never looked as bad as it looked earlier this year. The things wrong with that building aren't lack of maintenance - they are the result of purposeful neglect. The vendors and counsel may be speaking, community involvement may be sought in the near future, but all of this will fail if decisions are made soon and acted upon. Basically everyone is talking - but nothing is getting done.
But what I noted in the above commentaries is no one mentioned the surrounding areas. I was raised on Church Avenue (SE) overlooking "The Market" from across the interstate. The hilly street I lived on had the "claim-to-fame" of having the stone monument that is now located across from the hospital sitting proudly on top of it. The cobble stones that bore a path beside the old Ideal Laundry have been removed and relocated. In raping that neighborhood a horrible decline seems to have taken over the entire area. My last trip to Roanoke I noticed the prostitutes have taken over Campbell Avenue. Drugs are being sold around the railroad tracks entering town from Tazwell Avenue. 4th Avenue area is right down scary with people living under the inter-state bridge just prior to down-town. Town itself looks sad, depleted of energy and spirit. The Williamson Road area has become so ill-paved that teens couldn't cruise anymore if they wanted to. Don't people care anymore? I was raised in the South and taught a sense of "Southern Community". I wonder what that means to the people of Roanoke in this current time.
The "Market Building" must be saved and honored the same as the other historial buildings in Roanoke. But to show it proper respect, attention should also be directed at cleaning up the areas around this building. Southeast always was a rougher side of the city all the way into downtown. But I don't remember it ever being scary. Williamson Road has also become scary. I can't see myself ever walking from downtown to the Civic Center. Even if the "Market Building" is restored who is going to brave the surrounding areas to come downtown? I don't think under current circumstances I would feel comfortable going there at night. There are just too many scary elements - far scarier than the drag queens ever were that seemed to fill that area at night during my teen years.
Come on Roanoke - get it together. Talk, really listen and make some decisions. This area is basically your history. It's my history. Wouldn't it be a shame if "our history" disappeared because people couldn't figure out how to come together as a community and fix this? Your my hometown and I expect more from you then this.
Comment by Mike C. — December 19, 2008 @ 9:29 pm
I live in SE..its not scary at all..as my ex says.."Ive never been more comfortable anywhere in my life"..anyone thats ever lived in a large City can tell you..SE is a piece of cake..
Comment by bobby — December 20, 2008 @ 8:15 am
The fate of the Roanoke City Market Building will be decided using the same criteria as that of the silly "art museum": tax breaks for the wealthy, bribes and kick-backs for city officials.
Comment by Percy Kution — December 20, 2008 @ 10:02 am
I find it interesting that many, Bev Fitzpatrick for example, who were born in Roanoke by an accident of birth and have chosen not to leave the confines of the Roanoke Valley, seem to think they have a "senior" claim on what should be done in Roanoke.
Reading Percy Kution's comment also made me wonder about who Warner Dalhouse's unnamed investors are in the motel being build on City donated land on Reserve Ave. Other members of the Carillion Board of Directors perhaps? Or, who are the 40, yes count them, 40 unnamed business men who support the rejected plan Smiling Bill Carder of DRI presented on behalf of, well whomever. It is interesting to note that none, count them none, of the 40 prominent unnamed businessmen seem to be willing to put up their own money for renovation of the Market Building, just tax credits that may or may not materialize.
However, and here is the real kicker - in the last election, which fortunately rejected Reverend Dr. C. Nelson Harris for Mayor and gave us a re-cycled product and two other new council members, twenty percent of the eligible electorate voted.
This is the council that will decide the fate of Market Building, and as it turns out (attempt to) steer Roanoke during a period of financial austerity.
One can make an argument that despite the noise - the Citizens of Roanoke really don't give a damn. They would rather talk than vote.
Besides we all know those local businessmen are "good folk" because - (fill in the blank) and would NEVER take advantage of (fill in the blank again).
Perhaps with 20 percent of the eligible citizens voting we have what we deserve?
Comment by Robert R. Craig — December 21, 2008 @ 11:48 am