CIS renovations: Updates on the fate of the Roanoke Weiner Stand and a rooftop restaurant
Click to see larger image. Roanoke Times graphic
Arts reporter Mike Allen has a brief update on the $27 million Center In the Square renovations happening downtown, which prompted me to seek updates on the Roanoke Weiner Stand and the planned rooftop restaurant.
The Weiner Stand, a downtown fixture since it opened in 1916, will have to close in May so that construction can continue on that side of the building. The hot dog eatery will be closed for two to three months before it can move into a new location, closer to the CIS entrance, said Weiner Stand manager Tonia George.
The Weiner Stand’s last day open is May 5.
As for the rooftop restaurant, CIS has contracted with Hall Associates to find a tenant. Commercial real estate agent Jim Deyerle told me this morning that he’s in early talks with several national restaurant chains and local individuals who have said they are interested.
A request for proposals says the restaurant will be 4,250 square feet, with an additional 1,756 square feet of outdoor seating. Deyerle said that the floor plans are flexible, with room for one large restaurant or as many as three small restaurants.
There is also room for outdoor seating near the butterfly garden, Deyerle said. The restaurant could use the seating, or it could be a common area.
The rooftop work is scheduled to be completed in 2013.
March 21, 2012 - 9:47 AM
Any projections on how many people will eat at this restaurant?
@89Hoo: Are you asking how many people the space might be able to seat, or how much foot traffic it will see being on top of the building?
I think it could potentially draw some people in because it’s on top of the building. Something new and different, as long as the food is good and not outrageously priced.
It would be a travesty if they were to put a national chain restaurant on top of our CIS
The weeny stand has to be closed for 3 months????? Who’s poor planning led to this fiasco? ole CIS Dr. Jim strikes again
They should put a Green Turtle there!
It doesn’t matter what restaurant/s they put up there, it will flop because it is not at street level, and cannot survive on the few people who visit CIS. The Wiener Stand probably sees more paying customers in a week than CIS does in a year, but now they are making it less accessible from the street for people who want to park at the curb and run in and out for some dogs. The CIS renovations are an albatross that has already caused one business to close, several market vendors to suffer and may result in the loss of a beloved Roanoke icon if the Wiener Stand doesn’t survive. Any more arts & culture types have any big ideas for Downtown Roanoke(Taubman Museum)? Keep them to yourself.
No national chains please. Let’s keep it local!
@7: I agree that the lack of visibility from the street is a problem, not just for the restaurant but for CIS in general. Let’s face it, the CIS building looks pretty plain and boring, and nothing I see in that sketch really changes that when viewing it from street level. The rooftop itself looks really nice, but it can’t attract people unless they already know it’s there. I’d like to see more on what they intend to do to draw people in from the street.
They are going to hire Wanda, the Bag Lady. That will draw folks in for sure!! Might as well she is camped out there everyday now. Do you have any change?
I guess some of the nay sayers on here have never heard of signage. Probably they will stick some kind of overpriced hoity toity cafe up there that will close in six months. Wouldn’t it show local pride if they did something daring, like put the weiner stand up there? It would guarantee success, and the dogs wouldn’t taste of bus fumes.
2 – well, both, I guess. I assume the seating would be based on how many people are likely to wander through there. I think the idea of rooftop dining is a good one, but my experience with museum diners and restaurants is that they are only slightly better than institutional cantina food, and usually overpriced. And there are a lot of good dining options near CIS, that are more convenient, even for museum patrons. For example, the food in the lunchroom at the Smithsonian’s Museum of Natural History (I believe that’s the one I’m thinking of) is average at best, and overpriced. But because of the size of the place, and the location, it’s almost a captive audience; patrons can’t exit the museum and run downstairs for a hot dog, for example.
I don’t know what sort of restaurant Center in the Square is planning on or hoping for.
One thing I thought of: maybe a high-end chain restaurant would actually perform better than a local one in a rooftop location like this? The draw of the recognized brand might help to overcome the obstacle of people having to go all the way upstairs just to check the place out.
Maybe the Weiner Stand should move to the roof of CIS. Now that might attract some folks there!
I have never understood the loathing for national chains on this blog. Any post that even MENTIONS a national chain brings out the haters. Cries of “I would NEVER be caught at ‘X’ chain” or “Ugh, more cookie cutter chain restaurant food!”. They would have us believe we are all lemmings for eating at these stores. I must be a lemming because I find the food at many of these chains not only tolerable but actually quite good! There must, after all, be a reason these ‘chains’ are so successful.
As for supporting ‘local’ that is all well and good. If a local business is good I will support it. But I will not support it just because it is local. Big national chains still hire ‘local’ people, pay ‘local’ taxes and bring revenue to the area where they choose to build.
As for the CIS rooftop restaurant I would say a big name chain (especially one not in already the area) would have a better chance than a ‘local’ business. They have the name recognition and the advertising power to draw in customers.
Local! Local! Local!
Try a little positive thinking, people. Perhaps the sun will rise tomorrow.
$132,560 annual rent with a 10-year minimum lease. Good luck finding a restaurant owner foolish enough to enter into that contract, CIS.
Fingers crossed this works.
The city is stupid to allow the weiner stand to close while spaces sit empty in the Market Building. Give them a three or six month temporary lease and let the hot dog king live!
Once the renovations are complete and the restaurant(s) are up and running are they going to try and rely only on street walk in traffic or a combination of drive in and sidewalk traffic to survive …. Just wondering what the business model for survival on a rooftop will be…… Agree with most folks in not wanting a chain restaurant on the rooftop…………
I was wondering if you could find out when Sumdat Market and Thomas’s Market will be re-opening. They closed at the same time as Little Dipper Cafe and the notice on Sumdat’s door said they would only be closed for 2 months.
@Sandy: I’ll see what I can find out.
@Wilson: How nice it would be if a restaurant could just set-up temporary business in another location, but it just does not work that way. After installing a range hood (thousands of dollars) and building out the temporary space (thousands more), you would never have time to recoup your costs, let alone shut it down months later and start over.
A roof-top restaurant will more than likely be a big flop! Look at Roanoke’s past fiascos. It’s a shame that the weeny stand will have to suffer, and I also agree that the weeney stand should be allowed to operate temporarily from the Market Building. Hate to be so negative, but Roanoke City has a reputation of “messing up” big time on lots of past projects. Taubman, Elmwood Park, Explore, etc., etc. They WASTE more money than any municipality I’ve seen.
For all of you so opposed to a national/chain restaurant, a chain restaurant with name recognition might do better in such a situation. People traveling through and visitors to the Roanoke Valley will visit because it is a name they know and trust, whereas a local restaurant will now have the same name recognition. I am not at all opposed to chain restaurants, I just realize there are some benefits to them as well. If a Ruth’s Chris or similar chain restaurant were to go in that space, it would be a positive attraction for downtown. A few weekends ago I was in Wilmington, NC and located a Ruth’s Chris on my phone, and decided to eat there because I know they consistently offer quality food. In this way a chain restaurant may have more possibility of surviving, especially if it is a sort of “destination” restaurant like a Ruth’s Chris or even a Melting Pot.
@Lorelei… Shhh! You just gave away the secret ingredient!
I personally would love to see the Melting Pot go in up there! Sometimes the Melting Pot locates in unique locations and this would fit the bill. If I remember correctly they were looking for a Roanoke location. I agree with Jean that it would help draw in out-of-towners and visitors in addition to locals which would be a good thing.
Though I couldn’t care much less about chain restuarants in general, I would be glad to have a Chili’s, Cheesecake Factory, Dave & Buster’s, and whatever other big chain restaurants known for their high sodium, fat laden food just so the people here clamoring for them would be happy and stop going on about the quality of their life and the city as a whole suffering because we can’t go get some starchy jalepeno-ranch-cheese popper-tortilla bites with cheesey-ranch-chipotle dipping sauce or whatever.
Wow obviously somebody absolutely adores chains haha. I’m not a huge fan of them either, but it’s a simple business model that seems to work and does normally draw a crowd. If you want a local restaurant to go in there and fail before their lease is even up, that’s ok too. We have great local restaurants in the area like Metro, 202 Market, Horizon Bar and Grill, etc. and I go to those places often. I just personally would not be so opposed to a chain going in if it would bolster the downtown economy.
koi pond+wind turbines+the blue herons coming to eat the koi=another great idea to spruce up downtown roanoke
I, too, considered the trilogy of the koi pond, wind turbines and herons from the Roanoke River. Reminiscent of a failed attempt to rid downtown ledges of pigeons in years past.
C’mon Dylan…there’s just not enough spinach-cheese-artichoke dip out there. We need more.
I hope it’s a local place, and I’ll definitely go…I love eating outdoors, and Roanoke is woefully lacking in ourdoor dining. At Montanos you’re sitting in a parking lot, the ones that have it in the market makes it crowded as heck…I wish they’d block off the market street there and make a nice plaza with lots of outdoor seating European style.
Eating outdoors is one thing, but what is this obsession with “roof top” dining”???
Being very practical, how often is outdoor dining possible? Not too cold, 3+ months a year. Not too hot, another 3 months. Evening thunderstorms. Windy, especially roof top! And then there are just so many tables that are possible in any location.
Abuelos, So-Ro, Anthony’s, Fork in the Alley, and name some more, so our outdoor diners can support these already in place restaurants.
@Steve: From what I’ve seen on the rendering there is plenty of indoor seating enclosed by large windows.
Closing the wiener stand so is the ciy going to pay these folks while they are out of work. John who relies on publc transportation who is going to take care of his family with him being out of work not to mention the others. Roanoke has the WORST planning for construction ther eis. What will happen is they will drive the rent up sky hgh and May 5th will probably be the last day they ever open. All for nothing. They have already drove vendors out and taken away what made the market.
I would like to see a Hard Rock Cafe on the roof top. The restaurant, which is fun, trendy and youthful. Hard Rock Cafe seems to be found in the heart of downtown and in the prime locations. Yet, famous and successful in many cities. I also would like to see a very trendy Mellow Mushroom restaurant like the one in Gatlinburg, TN. I like to see a very cool, fun, trendy and artsy themed restauraunt. Something hip with an awesome theme.
I agree with Jean (re: chain restaurants OK) and Kristen (re: close Market Place and add more outdoor seating). Now re: Weiner Stand. I’ve lived here for four years and went to the Weiner Stand for the first time two weeks ago. And although it was good, it wasn’t that good for me to want to go back. Therefore, I don’t consider it’s closing to be a loss.
I think they should try and get the cheesecake factory. They have a large variety of food on the menu. Roanoke is trying so hard to become something big. My opinion is that they need to beautify and clean up the decay that has taken over the whole Roanoke region. CLEAN UP THE TOWN AND COUNTY and you might be able to attract top notch business’s. The mountains are very nice to look at when driving around but reality is the town is sooo decayed and ugly. It takes team work to make the dream work get the citizens involved in there town and county
I just have to add my 2 cents regarding Center in the Square. As a long time Roanoke native-I remember going to the Roanoke Weiner Stand as a child. I looked forward to my parents taking me there and enjoying the hotdogs. They have been a Roanoke Landmark since 1917. I at one time had a familly membership to the Science Museum. I chose not to renew for the fact that they wanted to just uproot all of the businesses in the building and cause an uproar.
I remember reading in the paper either last year or year before when the news 1st broke about the CIS renovations that the RWS would be moving back where the Wachovia ATM was (to the right of Thomas’ Market). I have noticed when I have driven thru the market that construction is going on at that part of the building. What doesn’t make sense is if the RWS is moving to that part that is currently under construction, why is CIS forcing them to shut down for 3 months? That is stupid on their part.
I feel that Jim Sears is not thinking about what Roanoke citizens want and only about himself. If they are already working on the new proposed location-why let it sit empty for 3 months?
I suggest that everyone complain and botcott all parts of Center in the Square. The Roanoke Weiner Stand has been around alot longer the them and will be here after CIS folds due to bad management and poor decision making.
I am a Roanoke native, a lover of old buildings, and history, and tradition, and I too feel that a national chain (particularly one not yet in Roanoke) may be the best fit for the roof-top restaurant. This is a brand new space without a tradition to honor and it would not be a sacrilege to build something new downtown. A chain has the advantage of name recognition and pockets deep enough to market and advertise. A local enterprise may not survive long enough to find and establish a customer base. I say it’s time to mix some new in with the old and give Roanoke a new dimension.
I am struck by the negative tone of most of the comments on this and other discussions about Roanoke. There are few constructive or new ideas. I am glad that we have people who keep trying in spite of the never-ending criticism.
PS – I’ve noticed comments where Center in the Square and “the city” are treated as one and the same. I believe they are separate entities.
@Mike: Just to clarify, it isn’t the city that’s closing the Weiner Stand because of construction, it’s Center in the Square.
“37.I would like to see a Hard Rock Cafe on the roof top. The restaurant, which is fun, trendy and youthful. Hard Rock Cafe seems to be found in the heart of downtown and in the prime locations.
Comment by Hans — March 24, 2012 @ 9:07 am ”
Hey, I’d like to have one of those, too, but it won’t happen here.
For one thing, they usually set up shop in places where a lot of hard rock concerts actually take place, or where there’s more tourist traffic. Roanoke is mostly a blues, jam/funk band, and acoustic town for it’s bigger shows, be it in larger clubs or the civic center, Jefferson Center, etc. With the exception of a handful of big shows a year here the harder stuff only happens on a much smaller, more underground level in this city.
The bigger concerts happen north and south of Roanoke.
Mellow Mushroom does seem doable though. Been to their Asheville, NC and Charlottesville locations and really liked them both.
In order for Roanoke to become successful and more attractive, Roanoke has to rip down the old and renovate the city center. I feel that offering nice museums and cleaning up the city center will spill over and spread to the rest of the city and attract more out of town businesses. Otherwise, Roanoke will not move forward. It will only be wishful thinking. I too love old buildings, but I also like modern building too. Asheville, NC is much smaller, but the down town and on every street is clean and lively with a small town charm. I enjoy visiting Asheville, because of the great downtown. I don’t mind spending my hard earn money in a nice downtown. I agree that Roanoke is depressing to look it, because it stills has many signs of old dated falling apart buildings. Yet, the mountains are beautiful. I embrace the change for the city. The trendier the city and new mixed with old, attracts younger educated people. Roanoke is still a blue collar town, unlike Charlotte, which attracts very educated people. I’m happy that Roanoke is cleaning up the city center, which is the heart of the city. I think we are seeing some great changes.
I like the idea of Hard Rock Cafe, but I don’t see that coming to Roanoke. I think it will be a overpriced cafe. It most likely will not last more than one year from opening. John ( who is my dad ), does ride the bus when I can’t take him to work. This will be hard on him because he has never taken 3 months off before.
I think a national or regional chain would be best. Hard Rock Cafe is not located in any cities remotely similar in population to Roanoke. The Melting Pot may come to Roanoke, but who knows if this location would interest them.
Mellow Mushroom would be awesome
Thanks for the correction- it is CITS and not the city who owns this project. And I realize that it’s not the city’s place to interfere with an individual’s business/commerce, but the WS is an institution. They wouldn’t let the Regency Room close, would they? And they don’t own that… (VT does). Couldn’t they offer up some temporary space? – or a hot dog cart? lots of empty space retail in the Church Ave garage next to Fire Station #1.
A lot of people just don’t understand how things work in this world… for one, CitS is doing what they have to do to renovate; people complain that it was worthless to visit in the past and then in the same sentence complain about them trying to make it better. They absolutely cannot renovate with businesses occupying the spaces; the businesses have to move for a little while so the work can be done. Unfortunately, it is much harder to move to a temporary space than people realize; they cannot move into their future space that isn’t complete yet for obvious reasons and the market building is owned by a completely different company/organization. As nice as it would be of them, they are not required in any way to offer up any of their space for these temporary tenants while they are still in the process of trying to find permanent tenants.
Also, this really has nothing to do with the directors of CitS being selfish at all… they are trying to make a positive impact on the community, and sadly not everything is always going to work out perfectly. (Example, read above; it’s impossible to renovate an occupied space.) Construction almost never happens on a perfect timeline, and they also have to work according to budgets, laws, and codes; historical tax deadlines and other things are factoring in as well.
Also, participants on Envision Roanoke (http://envisionroanoke.com/) have expressed their desire for rooftop dining. Has anyone here ever been to a city with a rooftop restaurant and actually dined there? It’s a nice experience, and just look at the views you’d have up there! Locals, as well as out of town guests, would probably love to dine there, and I’m sure there will be a way to dine without admission to the museums. Just think of how this dining option will benefit our economic development; tourism and relocation efforts will have another great thing to use to draw people in.
On outdoor dining, did anyone see this list of outdoor dining options in Downtown Roanoke? http://downtownroanokedri.blogspot.com/2012/03/spring-is-in-air.html What a list! How can anyone complain about the various options we have?
Sometimes I think the people who complain the most about downtown don’t even actually go downtown. Yes, there are things to improve upon, but think of how far we’ve come in just the past ten years! Get involved and try to find a way to actually help downtown become better, or just move along.
Well said, Emily.
Emily makes some great points. Well said, Emily. Personally, I eat downtown all the time. I eat in the market building, Corn Beef & company, Formosa & 202 market. I love going downtown Roanoke, Va. Yet there needs to be more. I do not work downtown and I live in Floyd County. I’m looking forward to a much needed improvement of downtown Roanoke. I spend plenty of money downtown Charlotte NC, Asheville, Richmond, Baltimore and DC, eating in cool/trendy restaurants. Roanoke is so behind on the times. The city is working on bettering this town and we certainly need to have some cutting edge Restaurants and museums here. Yes, a roof top restaurant will be a great draw for many people far and wide. It’s time for Roanoke to be a bit trendier. The new center in the Square is going to be a great interactive center attraction.
Agreed and well said Hans. Roanoke is stepping up and all these back woods people that are trying to stop growth and national chains need to get over it. We complain about why our kids do not stay in Roanoke. WELL THERE YOU GO!! BRING ON THE UPSCALE RETAIL AND YOU WILL SEE PEOPLE START LOOKING AT ROANOKE!!!!!!!!!!
WELL THERE YOU GO!! BRING ON THE UPSCALE RETAIL AND YOU WILL SEE PEOPLE START LOOKING AT ROANOKE!!!!!!!!!!Comment by Chris — March 29, 2012 @ 10:43 am
I agree as well. Many backwoods people are not forward thinkers!
I just really wish people would stop pretending to be something they’re not. Contrary to popular belief, that’s NOT what the internet is for.
I remember over sixty years ago when as kids, we would go to the “wennie”
stand and get a hot dog for a nickel. They had a slogan that they could sit a million people, just ten at a time ! I am now over seventy years old and this place holds fond memories for me. Even though we now live in southern Ca., I will always remember The Weiner Stand.One of my fondest chilhood memories.
@Jim: I think you’re confusing two of downtown’s legacy eateries, the Texas Tavern and the Weiner Stand. Glad they both hold good memories for you!
Better planning by CITS(Sears), the architect and the contractor would have kept the closing and relocation of the WS to a minimum.
That obviously did not not happen, 3 months down time is unacceptable. Too bad all the anchor spots are taken at the Market building, what better draw to the building could you ask for than the WS…..
WE NEED A CHAIN!!!!! It would be great for Roanoke Downtown Economy, and would benefit everyone! I’m hoping for a great “destination” upscale restaurant…I’m always at a loss as to where to bring visitors for a nice dinner…not a bar! Or where to host a birthday or rehearsal dinner, or bring the inlaws….there aren’t any nice family friendly restaurants in downtown Roanoke….or something hip like Melting Pot or Mellow Mushroom, great for young professionals and families, and they make it fit the city they are in!
58.WE NEED A CHAIN!!!!! Where is the nearest Melting Pot restaurant? I have never been to one.
Many larger cities have rooftop restaurants that are extremely popular.
Agreed!! Bring on a chain!! Chains do not close like locals do!!! Chains do far better in this area!!! Bring them on!!!!!!!
…as long as they’re “upscale”, right Chris? Can’t have people on disability stinking up the place, now can we?
Sure CAN’T OLD BOY!!
What on earth is “trendy” about another cookie cutter chain. IMO, sticking an Applebees or whatever on that roof would be a failure. There are plenty of local places that have succeeded year after year because of quality food and great atmosphere…look at Metro, or Blue 5. Lucky’s doing well. Local Roots is doing well. Carlos Brazilian…seriously, who feels the need to take out of town guests to a place they can eat at anywhere in the country? We have lots of great local options.
A chain that ships all its profits out of town isn’t great for any economy. Local operations keep the money local.
Emily for Mayor!
Applebees is not a trendy restaurant at all. The Applebees in Roanoke is another example of a dated restaruant that looks like it is still in the 80s. We need of the time trends.
Um… Hans, you do realize that the memorabilia on the walls is intended to induce nostalgia, right? Never go to Cracker Barrel… you’d think that place was REALLY run down.
@Chris …oh, brother.
Spiny,
The memorabilia on the walls IS the dated style. It was cool in the ’80s. Now, not so much.
Anything but Ruth’s Chris. Ugh, I couldn’t hold my food down knowing they were one of gasbag Rush Limbaugh’s major sponsors. They would never come to Roanoke anyway, too upscale.
I’m very aware of the style of Applebees. Applebees and Cracker Barrel are not trendy nor hip in any way at all. Nostalgia is great and it’s nice to go back in time. Cracker Barrel is more interesting, because it carries the theme throughout very well. I like Cracker Barrel, but Applebees just hangs nostalgia on the wall, but the rest of the restaurant is a big yawn. Again, putting a restaurant on top of a Center in the Square Science Museum needs to be awesome from a visual stand point to keep people coming back. The restaurant needs be visually hip, cool, fun, trendy, with a theme running throughout the restaurant. It does not haft to be high end overpriced nor expensive..It needs to offer an artsy feel to it. Applebees nor Cracker Barrel fits the mold. There is nothing arts nor trendy about Applebees or Cracker Barrel.
Ruby Tuesday’s got out of that “throw a bunch of stuff on the wall” decorating style a couple years ago and looks much better now. The first place I ever saw it was in Bennigans years and years ago. It’s run its course, not to mention I can’t imagine they’re able to dust all that stuff up on the wall efficiently.
I doubt a major chain would move downtown without making some sort of massive accomodation for parking. The whole point of chains floating around mall parking lots is that there’s plenty of parking, right in front of your face.
Yes to Mellow Mushroom. Great place!
I’ll re-iterate waht what was said earlier, 2 months downtime for the Weinie Stand is unacceptable and a direct result of poor planning by CIS, the architect and the contractor.
Sure CIS brags of paying for the equipment for the renovated weinie stand location, big deal.
Do they not realize how many people come to downtown just to go to the weinie stand? Have you ever just watched how many people stop on Campbel Ave., run in the WS and grab a couple dogs real quick and go? How many of these people will think that they are closed for good and not return to downtown? Will there be big signs telling out-of-towners that this is temporary?
The damage will be done, they will not recover from this debacle.
The flood of 85 couldn’t kill the weinie stand but CIS will do it single handedly.
@Tim: I posted some more information on CIS’ reasons for the two-month closing on this blog post.