2010.08.30
Discipline or reinforcement: prefered dog training methods
I am working on a story about behavior problems that many dogs experience, especially when they are new in a home, and what methods their pet parents can use to discourage naughtiness and encourage goodness.
I have read a few dog training books, and I have read countless articles on the subject. I had a professional dog trainer to my house and enrolled a dog in classes. And I still struggle sometimes with what to do when a pooch acts up.
No one wants their furniture destroyed, their carpet peed on, or there to be friction between pets that could result in someone getting hurt. While I am very fortunate to not have any serious issues with my pack and my lone feline, I know that behavior problems are a major reason that many dogs end up in shelters.
There are two major influences on cable television: “The Dog Whisperer” with Cesar Millan on the National Geographic Channel and “It’s Me or the Dog” with Victoria Stillwell on Animal Planet.
Millan is renowned for his philosophy of “discipline, exercise, and affection” pack-leader style of training. I read one of his books and while I see his point on many topics, I can’t say I totally embrace his methods, especially when it comes to harsh corrections.
He does make, I think, excellent points about needing to stay calm and balanced when dealing with an upset dog and that exercise will help burn off energy that can lead a bored or nervous dog to undesirable behavior.
Stillwell is a positive reinforcement trainer — in the most simplistic terms, she advocates rewarding the dog with praise, toys and treats when they do good and ignoring them when they do bad. I see a lot of wisdom in this as well, since my dogs seem to learn desirable habits much faster when there is consistently a treat or a belly rub in it for them.
Two things I do know for sure: Correcting chronic behavior problems are NEVER as easy as they make it look on television, and consistency in your method is key to teaching a dog what you want from him or her.
What do you think about these schools of thoughts and what has worked best for you? Is the answer one way or the other or does the best path seem to be somewhere in the middle?
I don’t think there is a best path; in my experience (and I’m just a family pet owner, not a ‘professional’) it’s more dependent on the dog’s personality. Growing up, my family used to raise and show boxers; they were pretty easy to train. I’ve owned and trained a variety of dogs since then, including two, 100 lb. Rotties, an Aussie, and a 35 lb. beagle mix. Each dog had his or her own ways of learning and I had to adjust the teaching accordingly. Some dogs are smarter than others; some dogs more eager to please their parent; some more treat-oriented than others… I do believe that regardless of the method, training must be done with firmness and lots of patience. Inconsistent application of ‘the rules’ gets you into trouble.
Comment by JulieP — August 30, 2010 @ 2:22 pm
It isn’t a choice between discipline and reinforcement, it is learning how to be consistent and persistent in the manner in which you coach a dog within your home.
If all dogs were the same it might be easier, but just like humans, they are complex individuals who respond differently.
The path is in the middle but fluctuates according to the animal and how long the behavior problems have persisted.
Personally, if you find the right animal coach you will find the right method that works for you but remember that it is a lifestyle change that needs to occur.
And yes, nothing is every as simple as presented in the media. They do lots of editing and you are watching people with years and years of expertise.
The bottom line about training is that it is an art AND a science. To master it required study, practice and continued application.
Comment by Ark Lady — August 30, 2010 @ 7:46 pm
I have found with Cali that positive reinforcement is more effective than discipline. My dog trainer showed me how to do it properly and since then she has made great strides in becoming a well-adjusted dog. She does have her limits though that right now only discipline can handle but those issues are less frequent and 99% of the time a stern word will do the trick. The old saying of “it’s easier to catch flies with honey” is true as Cali will do most anything for a treat or even a few moments of love and pets. JulieP is right in that whatever you choose you must be consistent with it. As far as Milan, I have heard several trainers say he is the worst thing to happen to dog training.
Comment by Kim — August 30, 2010 @ 9:44 pm
Ark Lady: I agree with you that dogs are individuals and need to be treated accordingly.
Over the years I’ve had four greyhounds, and while I think many people attribute certain traits to particular breeds of dogs, I can tell you each dog was very different.
Consistency and persistence is indeed the key.
Comment by Nona Nelson — August 31, 2010 @ 7:48 am
Kim: The only thing I agree with Cesar Millan on wholeheartedly is that you have be calm when dealing with a dog that is upset. Dogs do pick up your energy and if you are upset, that will only make things worse.
I do also think exercise is a good thing for a dog, physically and mentally. Bored dogs are unintentionally naughty dogs.
Comment by Nona Nelson — August 31, 2010 @ 7:50 am
I only use positive reinforcement for my pit, praising him (showering him) with love and treats when he is well behaved which is 95% of the time and ignoring him when he acts up. (He hates that) I do not hit him or smack him or anything like that and never would beat any dog to train them. Repetition is the key to training any dog, patience with plenty of love, toys and treats when they do well. I guess both experts have positives and negatives in their approach to training but like JulieP stated, the dogs personality plays alot into the training also.
Comment by Mike T — August 31, 2010 @ 7:53 am
You are right Mike. You should never hit a dog, especially a protective dog like a pit. Our pitty is probably the world’s biggest sissy because we’ve lavished so much love and affection on him, but he obeys basic commands almost without question and he’s maybe the happiest dog in the world.
Never smack a dog. Ever.
My greys all needed to be taught what is and isn’t a toy (RIP expensive pair of sandals) which we accomplished by replacing the wrong object with an approved toy. That worked remarkably well.
Comment by Nona Nelson — August 31, 2010 @ 8:04 am
Re: comment by Kim – trainers say Millan is the worst thing that happened to dog training !! Is it to dog training or dog trainers ?? (because he is so good.
Cesar’s methods simply make sense. I have known people who said: “I tried his methods and it doesn’t work” – I have witnessed people doing maybe 75% or even 90% of what Cesar suggests hence the reason why it did not work as well. People have a hard time being patient and taking the time; the trouble is ALWAYS with the people, not the dogs!!
Comment by Lou Berger — August 31, 2010 @ 8:34 am
C.W. Meisterfeld told of the dangers of using dominant dog training techniques with his book Jelly Bean versus Dr. Jekyll & Mr Hyde. Jelly bean was written for the safety of our children and the welfare of our dogs.
Mech and his work showed that dominance mentality isn’t what nature used in the family unit of wolves.
It boils down to Millan is a product of Hollywood whose factual base has been discredited by every major behavioral expert. Why it Millan has been allowed to continue we leave that up to the fact that he is a cash cow for the producers.
Stillwell has changed her stance on dominance over the years. Stillwells British show she wore a dominatrix outfit suggesting a show of dominance is good. But Stillwell has embrace the safer and has produced better results with positive reinforcement.
The world is still two hundred years away form giving animals rights as we know them. Rights to be free from physical and mental torture. Those right will come as we learn more about dog behavior and become better at educating people about what those behaviors mean. Now the issue is that dominance is so ingrained into our society that society can’t recognize it’s actually detrimental. Meisterfeld was one of the first to show that aggression can be created in dogs by using dominant dog training techniques. Meisterfeld also showed that using positive reinforcement and only rewarding the behavior you want you can manipulate a dog to change it’s behavior and become a safe and reliable pet
Comment by James Webster — August 31, 2010 @ 8:47 am
I had been doing the pack leader thing before watching Cesar. I have had dogs for years. I had missed the two first seasons of the Dog Whisperer, so the negative remarks about him didn’t make sense to me. The new rescue dog got the benefit of a more calm leadership thanks to Cesar. He’s become very laid back in recent programs.
Comment by Shaamex — August 31, 2010 @ 11:40 am
Lou: I have to disagree with you on your last point. It’s USUALLY the person that is the problem, but sometimes it is the dog.
Some dogs, due to abuse or other psychological problems, are so unstable that even the most patient person can’t help them. Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Utah takes in many such cases. They are experts and it can take them years to help some dogs; others will never be adoptable.
Read Jon Katz’ book “A Good Dog,” in which he writes about a dog he spent years trying to help and, in the end, could not fix what was broken.
Those are extreme cases. In most instances, I think it’s more about training people to communicate in a way the dog understands.
Comment by Nona Nelson — August 31, 2010 @ 1:50 pm
Hhhmmmm….these comments, on one hand, are disheartening because only a couple folks recognize that every single dog is different and may require a softer or harder training method for success. I’ve always had Rotts – LARGE Rotts…and I have indeed owned one alpha bitch who, while a real lover,wanted HER way on HER terms. She required a MUCH firmer hand when training and ended up being one of our best breed representatives, even being allowed on a Naval facility in the Bahamas.
All my other Rotts have worked great on soft methods. 
I think those who are complaining about Cesar’s methods are 1) NOT paying attention to him when he speaks…they’re watching him roll a dog and forming an opinion about an animal/trainer they know NOTHING about; 2) Have never owned or trained a true ‘red case’ dog; 3) Are willing to euthanize a red case dog as opposed to using ‘un-soft’ methods….which is asinine in my OPINION (and we all have them)….every dog out there deserves EVERY chance to be saved. You folks should really REALLY get more involved with troubled dogs and you’ll learn more than you ever though possible. Talk is cheap AND easy.
Volunteer for a week at Best Friends..again, in my opinion, the BEST PLACE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD for animals in need. Volunteer with Cesar. DO something to learn as opposed to criticizing those who have proven their methods WORK under proper circumstances.
Different trainers, different dogs, different methods…this ain’t politics people, it’s living animals….some of which have to be pushed to remember their lives can be free and loving once again.
Comment by RotnMom — August 31, 2010 @ 2:28 pm
Sometimes it is so hard to ignore a dog when he or she is not behaving. We have a new dog in our home and he has so far been the best boy, especially considering that he is undergoing heart worm treatment and is not allowed to exercise. So I imagine a lot of his disobedience has to do with the fact that he has a ton of pent-up energy.
This morning, however, he chased my cat up the stairs and scared the cat really badly. I’m trying to teach the dog to leave the cats alone, which he does most of the time but he can’t help being curious. When he chased Ned and I saw how scared and upset Ned was, I yelled at Indie. But I’m sure I could have handled that better.
It really is such an important and time-consuming undertaking to train a dog, but those of us who care to do it are probably much appreciated by people who have seen dogs allowed to behave however they want!
Comment by Lindsey Nair — August 31, 2010 @ 5:06 pm
I am a dog trainer myself and have read several of Cesar Millan’s books, watched most DVDs and I am a regular of the Dog Whisperer TV Show. I have seen several other dog shows on TV as well but prefer Cesar Millan as he teaches us about the true nature of dogs and how to restore their natural balance. His insight have made me better at what I do and it helped me develop a better understanding of the differences between dog rehabilitation and dog training; two concepts many people get confused all the time. His approach of working with nature is in my experience a much better way to help dogs and their owners. He draws his insights from experience around dogs and growing up with them. That he doesn’t have any formal degrees, which some criticize, works in his favor in my view. He is not constrained by one particular paradigm and doesn’t try to reinvent or improve nature like so may dog trainers or behaviorists with degrees. I do appreciate real-life experience over book knowledge when it comes to nature any day (it’s kind of the opposite if you want to build a space station, but we are talking about dog training here).
Cesar Millan returns dogs to a calm, stable state of mind by applying natures principles of dogs. Dogs by nature are calm, balanced animals. Only when they live with people do they develop all these issues you see and hear about so much, because most people don’t understand how to effectively communicate with their dogs and what their own state of mind does to their companions. Cesar Millan helps them understand how they are affecting their dogs so they can change and as a result, improve their dogs state of mind.
I would at some point like to see a compelling argument for Victoria Stillwell’s approach of ‘positive ONLY’ training. In one of Victoria’s 2009 episodes I saw her advocating (together with a vet) that a particular dog with separation anxiety should be put on anti-anxiety medication. Now that is animal cruelty in my view and a complete humanization of an animal that is really not to its benefit at all. Anyone who thinks that it is a ‘positive’ approach to drugging a dog your methods don’t work on should really take a look at the Cesar Millan DVD ‘Common Canine Misbehaviors’, where he shows how to address separation anxiety with calm-assertive leadership. He teaches the owners how to bring their dog back to balance and resolve this issue and he doesn’t touch the dog even once. Same issue, different methods, which is healthier for the dog?
Also, in the episode ‘Untamed and Untrained’ from 2008, Victoria Stillwell diagnosed 2 dogs (Olivia and Sophia) as never be able to be together in one room alone off leash as one was attacking the other. She also spoke of the dogs being ‘emotional’ in each other’s presence. I have to say that she is not a very impressive trainer. These dogs can absolutely be returned to a balanced co-existence and dogs are not emotional about other dogs in ways like “they don’t like each other”. Victoria did make good progress with Olivia and Sophia but didn’t seem to fully understand that this was just the beginning of where this can be taken. If she would have only been able to teach the owners how to be true calm-assertive pack leaders and reclaim the position, they lost to their dogs they could have made it all the way. Victoria doesn’t really seem to understand the true nature of dogs and once again humanizes them (although she says she doesn’t). Instead of criticizing Cesar Millan on a regular basis, she would benefit from getting some lessons from him on how to deal with imbalances in dogs like that properly, and working with Mother Nature’s blue print. She showed some good positive reinforcement techniques (which Cesar Millan uses too where appropriate by the way) but would really do herself and her clients a huge favor by not denouncing things she clearly doesn’t understand properly. If I knew who these poor people where I might go there myself just to help them, as I feel really sorry for them having to think, their dogs can never get along; Stillwell should be ashamed of herself.
All over the western world people have a tendency to view their dogs as another kid of the family. In my work I find that to be one of the biggest problems. People spoil their dogs based on their selfish needs to shower them with love. And while most people have the best, most loving (from their point of view) intentions, they do not really love their dog. Loving your dog means to accept his nature and provide him with what he needs and not what we think they should enjoy – this is what Cesar Millan advocates. Based on this, it is not surprising that we have a lot of people that find the positive reinforcement training method better because it is essentially an extension of our tendency to spoil our dogs and not correct them when called for. But just because more people find it ‘nicer’ doesn’t mean they are correct. And just because the true nature of animals is something we don’t want to think about doesn’t mean ignoring it delivers better outcomes; quite the opposite in my experience.
My recommendation would be to re-read Cesar Millan’s book because he doesn’t advocate ‘harsh punishments’, he advocates that the correction you give your dog for wrong behavior need to match the intensity of your dog. You can’t expect the same level of correction to work for a poodle as well as a German Shepherd – you have to adjust to the animal’s strength and determination. Cesar Millan stands for calm assertive leadership and there is nothing harsh about that. It is actually a very health and peaceful way of being and if you can truely master that. Your dog will naturally follow you because dogs like to follow calm, stable, assertive leaders; it’s just how they are programmed by nature. A dog pack could never accomplish a successful hunt if they were all unbalanced.
Comment by DogTrainerRW — September 1, 2010 @ 8:09 pm
DogTrainerRW……I think my dogs WUV you! LOL Nice post.
Comment by RotnMom — September 6, 2010 @ 1:38 pm