Are you ready to pay more for hunting and fishing licenses?
As I mentioned in a comment to my previous post, the DGIF board voted yesterday to propose adding $5 to the price of resident fishing and hunting licenses. The proposal for non-resident licenses is a whopping $50.
I had a brief on the vote in today’s Roanoke Times.
The way the proposal is worded the board can approve a lesser increase. Any changes, should they be approved, would not take effect until the middle of next year, at the earliest.
Having just hiked fees $5 in 2006 (a long overdue increase), agency leaders surely aren’t thrilled to have to make this proposal. But the alternative is financial disaster, they claim, by 2014.
The hope is that some other alternative funding sources can be identified during this winter’s General Assembly session. What might that mean? Maybe some way to reduce the number of license exemptions (there are 13 right now) that hurt the agency not only by reducing direct revenue, but also by reducing federal matching dollars based on license sales numbers.
Other options? Maybe something similar to House Bill 38, which diverted a portion of sales taxes collected on outdoor gear to a fund that was intended for the DGIF (though that fund has been raided from time to time).
So, what are the thoughts on license increases? And what about all those exemptions? Any other ideas for ways the DGIF can balance its budget?
October 6, 2010 - 10:49 AM
When they made this change in 2006 and the increase in fees could be done in $5 increments, it was only a matter of time before it would happen again. I personally went ahead and purchased my lifetime hunting license which in 2007 would pay for itself in 14 years, its been 3 years and now they are talking about raising it again. Looks like it will pay for itself even sooner. I know this might not be an option for everyone but it is paid for and is one less thing I have to worry about. If they would offer lifetime archery, muzzleloader, etc. I would not hesitate to buy one! Fee increases are what we should expect from here on out, and as long as government continues to dip its hand in every pot there really is no reasonable outcome. We can set aside a portion of sales tax for this and license plate fees for that, but if the money is not being used for what it was intended it continues to be a vicious cycle. My 2 cents!
I don’t mind the increase as long as they give me something in return. A longer deer season in the west i.e. two bucks/does in a day. As a landowner( my land is in the east) I don’t buy a license to hunt my own land as it should stay the same for this rule. I do buy a license because our other hunting area is not owned by me. How many people do the same thing I do??
I don’t mind paying more as long as I get some value from it.
Mark,
I hate to see an increase in fees, but I understand their position. In the past, we sportsmen have questioned some of VDGIF’s spending. And that has led to some of those individuals being no longer employeed. But hopefully they have ‘righted the ship’, and unauthorized spending has been eliminated. VDGIF is just begining to regain the confidence of sportsmen, and now may not be the best time to have an increase in fees. The tax dollars that are slated to go to VDGIF, should only be used by the Dept., and not someone else. If that problem was corrected, maybe an increase would not be as necessary. I agree that eliminating some of the exemptions would also help.
Mark,
I see it everyday, a license customer will remark “what,they have gone up again ?” I remind them that license have not gone up in over 4 years, but they seldom seem to believe me ?!
I do think $5.00 is too big of a jump in these rough economic times–I see some customers buying only what they need for the current season instead of buying all they will need for the whole season.
The guys who do it all hunting-state license-big game-archery-muzz & nat forest are now paying $76.00, so it would increase to $101.00 ??
Last thing the DGIF needs to do is turn more hunters away because of license cost! They may well shoot themselfs in the foot if too big of a increase is put in place !
Wayne Huffman
As Arkansas Prepare to vote on Hunting as a Constitutional Right Virginia Department of Game and Fishing can’t collectively get with the powers that be can’t lift the ban on Sunday hunting..
As the political Pimping Nincompoops hold their hands out for more of what that got the last time they raised the price of licenses can go to #@%%!
What are they going to say Ohh we going to reintroduce Elk, we need you hard earned buck to cover the price of doing so…
If Elk keep crossing the border from Kentucky we will have them without their help it may time some time, but it will happen.
What they need to do is lift the Sunday Hunting Ban or just Ban all sports on Sunday. That will be fair.
Mark, I’m curious as to how the federal money is alloted: Does the DGIF receive a dollar-for-dollar match for license sales? or do they receive a particular amount of money per license sold?
If its the later, I think reducing the exemptions (some not all) and requiring a $1 or $2 license, for example, is the best way to increase income while cutting the sportsmen (and women) a break.
Just for the record…
the last time this conversation came up many of you were willing to pay $5.00 more for a licenses if they lifted the Sunday Hunting Ban.
Well no matter how you slice it they are going to so and still keep the ban in place.
Hell who needs to worry about thugs Red & Blue Bandannas when the real criminals prefer operate under disguise of suits and ties.
Oh heck yea I’m pissed!!
Brent,
I don’t think DGIF gets any tax $ and us totally funded by licenses (and maybe fines from violations). Of course that didn’t stop (then) Governor Wilder from raiding the DGIF treasury to balance the state budget-money I don’t believe was ever paid back.
As a landowner I don’t pay for a license and haven’t since 1992 although when DGIF is looking for funding, the notion of requiring landowners to buy some sort of a license usually gets new life.
And, I am ok with that. But give us something for it. Like, hunting on Sunday. Like Black powder until Jan 15.
I think they will raise the fees, regardless of what the public input is. Having a 120 day comment period is a little disingenuous.
Let’s say you own a golf course. It’s a family business and when Grandpa started it things were booming. He didn’t really have to try and business still boomed.
Well, over the years things have changed and business has gotten tougher. Over the last 20 years you’ve been losing about 1-2 percent of your members every year. That’s not much in a year, but it sure adds up.
Of course even though you’re losing customers your costs are going up. So you start wondering how you can bring in some more revenue. Well, raise prices.
But there’s another thing. You are actually closed on Sundays. You know, so the greens can have a day of rest and the people who live on the course don’t have to worry about the occasional bad tee shot landing in their flower bed.
Now, you know some of your potential members work five days a week and spend a lot of Saturdays at little Suzie’s soccer games. And you know that business isn’t exactly booming even at golf courses that are open on Sundays. With so many other recreational options out there, there just aren’t the golfers there once were. But you can’t help wondering if opening up on Sundays might help you out a bit. Maybe you wouldn’t have to raise prices quite as much.
Yet you really worry about those people who fear errant golf balls, even though golf courses are open seven days a week in 43 other states and injury rates from errant golf balls are no higher than in your state.
But Grandpa, may he rest in peace, vowed that he would never be open on Sundays. So you don’t even try.
That, to me, sounds like a perfect case study for a Masters in Business Administration program.
Ryan – Federal money is not a dollar-for-dollar match. It’s essentially one big pot of money — and it changes yearly because it’s based on sales tax revenues, which change — that is divvied out to states based on license sales.
The figures we were given yesterday were that it comes out to about $10 per fishing license and $20 for hunting licenses.
The other number given out was 110,000 — the estimated number of hunters in Virginia who don’t buy hunting licenses because they are exempt. DGIF officials admitted that the numbers are fairly speculative.
If the number is around 110,000, that means the state is leaving about $4 million on the table each year just in federal funds.
As for charging a nominal fee for a landowner license, I’m pretty sure the amount has to be reasonable (i.e., not $1) in order to qualify.
There would be resistance to establishing such a license, of course. But ultimately I think most landowners (who we must agree do benefit from the work the DGIF does) would not have too much heartburn with paying $15 or so for a license if they knew was helping the DGIF accomplish its mission.
Some of you may recall legislation from last year that seeks to help with that. It was the notorious bill that established an infant hunting license. Of course it doesn’t mean infants are going to start hunting. It just means that those license holders can be counted each year as licensed hunters.
As for tax money going to the DGIF, the only tax money that goes to the agency is HB38 money, which is a portion of sales tax revenue collected on outdoor gear sales. But, again, that pot has proven vulnerable during lean economic times.
Enough already. I used to think that the cost of hunting and fishing wasn’t that much until I recently purchased all my necessary licenses to hunt this year. It was over $100. Add two teenage boys to the mix and I’m about to go broke.
Instead, let’s charge landowners, seniors and anyone else who gets a free ride. Just as I’m tired of my tax dollars going to welfare deadbeats who will never contribute, I’m tired of others benefitting from my license dollars. It’s time for everyone who gains from the DGIF to pony up.
Raising fees is often a coward’s way of raising taxes without having to man up and admit you favor(ed) raising taxes. If out-of-state residents come to VA to hunt or to fish, they surely drop tourism money (gas/food/lodging, etc.) that ends up in the state’s general fund. The argument that raising fees is a fair way of raising revenue because it directly hits those who directly benefit doesn’t always hold water. Just as even those who have no children must pay taxes to fund schools, so must all of us pay taxes for many other activities with benefits that are only indirect to us but significant to our state as a whole. In my opinion, proper management of wildlife certainly fits into that category.
AMEN FISHGUTS!!!
It’s a shame they must raise the cost of a permit in this economy. It’s bad enough the schools are making us parents buy “office” supplies and gas prices are hanging around 2.45 a gallon. I thought our president was going to “change” things? He’s changing things alright and so is our state. What a bunch of crap!!!! Raise our rates Virginia…… and see how much money you will actually make. YOU THINK YOU HAVE A DEER HERD PROBLEM NOW……..RAISE THE RATES!!
I think a hunting permit is a joke anyway. God put these animals on this Earth so we can harvest them and help take care of our families. These states see how much we as hunters enjoy this sport and see dollar signs $$$$$$. But yet, we can’t hunt on Sundays. Come on VDGIF! Or are you wanting to raise the rates because you are strugling with your family budget and want to increase your salary. Makes me wonder!
As others have said the VDGIF is pretty short sighted and just plain stupid. The fact that Sunday hunting is still banned in VA is ridiculous. Has anyone ever challenged the constitutionality of these laws since they were originally part of the Blue Laws? I’m a devote follower, but the ban on Sunday hunting is ridiculous.
Also the way too liberal buck harvest is this state is crazy too. I wish the VDGIF would cut us back to 2 bucks max and make one of them be at least an 8-pter outside the ears. If you do that VA will start getting bigger deer and bigger bucks mean more out-of-staters. Look at Mr. Feazell’s buck… VA can grow the monsters.
Out of state hunters are a cash cow for departments of game but in VA we do everything we can to discourage people from coming here. If we would enact antler restrictions and open up Sunday hunting, in no time at all VA could become an attraction to out of staters and an improved buck quality would get more residents in the woods.
Bigger deer + 2 weekend hunting days = more hunters = more $$$ for the Department without raising fees.
This applies to the idea of making landowners buy a license.
As a landowner I do not know what benefits that I actually see from the game department. Sure turkey and deer were stocked years ago but that has long been paid for. What is the DGIF doing for me now to improve my hunting or wildlife habitat in general on private land? After having paid thousands of dollars for my land, why should I inturn have to pay to hunt on it? How is the DGIF going to be able to enforce this proposal? Sure many landowners will pay, but I bet just as many will not. If they want to keep their hunter base, then the DGIF needs to be more concerned with providing areas for the public to hunt.
I as a land owner say no. personal land owner grow crops and pay taxes and do as much work to improve the hunting land as the game department. I personally dont care for the game department . We are responsible for being stewards and guardians of our wildlife . the game department does nothing to improve my land. i enjoy not paying for a license and am responsible for game management on my property . i do not support a license for land owners . As for the increase in fees I dont suport that either The state doesnt own all the land or the ocean but they charge us to fish off the beach dont they . i dont agree with that one either. I pay tax on gas to get there, tax on ammo tax on guns tax on food , tax tax tax . Game is wild and free and hunting should be too!!!
T-Bone:
Do you have deer and turkeys on your land now? It’s not only because of long-ago stockings.
It’s because game regulations managed by the DGIF — and enforcement by conservation police officers — ensure that your neighbors don’t shoot everything that moves 12 months a year.
If you want a picture of hunting and fishing in a Virginia where private landowners are in charge of hunting and fishing management, go back 100 years. Or 50 years. It ain’t pretty.
That’s a good one, rob g! You had me going for a second there!
not sure follow u mark. ?????
Pony up people! What we have here is a bargain… and if it goes up $5 per license it’s still a bargain!
A couple things to think about…
How much do you pay to watch a UVA or VT football game that lasts 3 hours, or a 2 hour movie at the theater, or a round of golf, or a dinner out, or any of the other “luxury” items you buy? What’s your electric bill, cell phone bill, gas bill… per month???? How much have they gone up recently?
I don’t have time to do the math but for the bargain price of $110.00 annually (I think that’s the figure someone above used) you can hunt something 6 days a week, from daylight to dark (except spring gobbler), for about 7 months out of the year.
For you landowners that don’t buy a license… Who are you going to call when your neighbors or others are breaking wildlife laws… quite possibly on your property? Yeah, I know you pay taxes on it… and I also know that the guy that owns a half an acre pays taxes but I doubt he will need a Conservation Officer at any time.
I hate to hear people griping about the cost of their hunting license… it’s the best value out there!!
I also shouldnt have to pay for a concealed carry permit that is a right granted to me by the constitution.
rob g — When I read your comment it sounded like the kind of arguments I sometimes hear from landowners. But when I got the final line — “Game is wild and free and hunting should be too!!!” — I figured you were just yanking my chain.
nope I was serious . I am tired of tax for this fee for that. I am becoming a constitutionalist or/and a libertarian. I was very serious everythign is taxed and the founding fathers would flip. i know about the law enforcement side and conservation side. there was a time when I was 16 and the law wasnt clear about hunting on granfathers property so I bought a license to obey the law. I am an ethical hunter and always follow the rules . I know people who hunt on land not theres, past hours before hours and kill more than the laws allow and makes me sick. I follow the rules but like i said I dont see VDGIF plowing my field and planting food plots. I do that and pay tax for everything I buy. I hunt in elliston where it brown it down and that bother me too(not everyone that would be a stereotype and dont like those). I understand some of that is subsistence hunting and I cool w/ that cause people need it. Largest buck ever seen on property was on cam a couple of years ago and got buck fever last year jsut seeing him in the open. I let spikes walk only for the neighbors to kill because it is a deer. I am for QDM and actively seek to do so. I jsut dont see much benefit personally from VDGIF . Not that I dont understand or appreciate what they do. would rather have state than federal do it for sure. People are more educated now than 50 100 years ago. I know it is to generate money but look at charging us to fish the ocean . Really ???
jsut like paying for snipers to kill the deer populations down in the cities with our tax dollars. let hunters do it. If populations so high raise the doe ratio on those areas. Build a 26 million dollar art monster that doesnt even fit the cities style. we couldnt have improved schools with that money .
rob g –
I am no fan of taxes or big government. But, again, we proved several generations ago that we can’t manage wildlife on our own.
Describing the area you hunt, I think you just made my argument for me regarding the importance and impact of game management (be it by landowners or by the DGIF) on private land.
As for saltwater fishing, those license are relatively new. They pay for the awards program (citations) and boat ramps. So, if you just fish from the beach and never apply for a citation, and don’t care to know about trophy fish trends in Virginia, you have an argument.
I have to agree with Freddy on this one, it’s only $5 folks not $500. Skip the starbucks one morning and you are all square or lay off that next trip through the drive through. What we are talking about is just a few dollars more ever for ‘Fishguts’ that has multiple licenses to pay for. Think of the money you spend on new bows, rifles, ammo, equipment, etc. Even for those on a tight budget, $5 is no more than a flash in the pan. What we should really complain about is why we are all banging it out on computers on a silly $5 argument, when what we really want is to be parked in a treestand on a cool afternoon such as this.
BirdDog — RE: “What we should really complain about is why we are all banging it out on computers on a silly $5 argument, when what we really want is to be parked in a treestand on a cool afternoon such as this.”\
It’s because we’re all “working.”
.
good point about the landowners taking more than limits but would aslo argue the deer population has the potential for numbers like seen in the past . However, with more advanced agriculture and information available the carrying capacity of the land has increased exponentially. there will always be bad apples in the bunch and you have done stories on ethics of hunting and are to be commended for that. i would love to see Va get on the map like Iowa, Missouri and Illinois. I said if bought Ft lewis mountain and managed it well and put a resort up there would do great . huge acreage good management in the long run you would make a killing it is just getting it there and the investment to start . I agree it is good to see bucks like Feazell took . The other side of the debate is the whole lack of representation here in southwest Va. most of it goes to areas like northern Va where there are more people . Some times it feels like we are losing out because we live out here . I know more people need more resources but alot of times the little guy loses out. But that is life . good discussion everyone . lets remember we have our opinon and in the end we are jsut protecting what we love . HUNTING AND FISHING!!!!
I agree with bird dog . If I get caught on here will be a subsistence hunter and have all the time i need to be in the woods and be a law breaker because i will be killing in june to have food. because i am at work
Yeah birddog07…… some of us work all day. Saturday is the only day a lot of us get to hunt.Yeah 5 bucks is nothing dude, it’s the principle.I think it sucks to buy so many permits just to hunt. I’ve bought 2 new Mathews this year,so what. I’m tired of giving my hard earned money to a bunch of crooks! I’m with you Rob G……… The 5 dollar increase wouldn’t be as bad as long as the VDGIF would change a few rules to benefit us hunters. I still think the money for the increase is going into a few pockets if you know what I’m saying.
rob g — I appreciate you reading, but please don’t get fired over it! LOL.
You sportsman and woman are spoiled in Virginia, very few states offer licenses this cheap.
When I first bought my land, I caught many a person trespassing and hunting out of season. I handled it right there on the spot, I never called a game warden. After 2-3 years the word got out about me and I have not had any problems since. I have no use for game wardens other than patrolling public areas like smith mt. lake and WMA’s.
50-100 yrs ago game departments nation wide did not know what they were doing with wildlife/habitat management either (stockin tame turkeys, stocking non native trout in our brook trout streams, planting invasive plants like autumn olive etc…) Much of the reason for the decline of deer and turkey was subsistence hunting and loss of habitat as much of the east was clear-cut 50-100 yrs ago. Landowners are much more informed about wildlife and landmanagment today than they were back then.
I have witnessed first hand from working in a gov. agency the wasteful spending that occurs, and I am fed up with it, $5.00 is nothing to me it is the priciple that matters. I would like to know what this increase in funding is going towards? I bet if they absolutly had to they could come up with the money that they need and still do their “job” just as well as they are doing today.
When are they going to start managing the timber on the WMA’s? I bet they could make a pretty penny by cutting the timber on these areas according to a forest managment plan.
rob g
You want to see deer herd cruise out my way in Blacksburg, you’ll see at least 50-60 deer mainly does day or night, then we have this elderly lady telling me we can’t shoot deer and she was a deer in another life as she snacked on a hot dog.
I said really!? she said yes. I wanted say to her did she know Jonah too, but I let it past.
Far as those snipers to cull deer herds in the city limits if memory serve me right they spent over $20,000 dollars last season…
Expect that number to triple as well in the near future. I’m selling my bow and I’ll stick to rifle and muzzleloader hunting.
Opps I forgot I’ve been working 6 days a week for the past 2 months anybody spare venison?
Or should I just wait till someone have a wreck into one?
Totally aggravated!
Of course I hate paying more for my license(s)or anything else for that matter especially with 2 sons and a daughter that hunt and fish and a wife that fishes but I have to agree with Freddy McGuire it is still a good value and of course we will pay it.
Freddy offers some good comparisons but one I like to use is the bottled water comparison whether we are talking license fees, gas or whatever, many of us will pay $5.00 or more per gallon for bottled water and not even think about it. (e.g. $1.00 for a 20 – 24 ounce bottle = $5.33 to $6.40 per gallon).
Please count me in for being in support of Sunday hunting and bag limits on bucks reduced to a maximum of 2 per season.
I hate to see the cost of anything rise, but think about this. How many people out there spend hundreds of dollars a year leasing land just for the purpose of hunting??? Or take a guided hunting trip somewhere??? I guarantee the cost is more than what the increase will be. I too agree that license are expensive and want the ban on Sunday hunting to go away. but I will pay whatever it takes to keep my kids in the woods or on a river bank versus out on the streets doing drugs or any other illegal activity that is on the rise in todays world!!!! Sure I will complain about having to pay more but I will still continue to purchase a license every year.
It is amazing to me how people just fall in line with giving more money to the government w/o asking what it is going to be used for. Why is DGIF claiming to be going into financial ruin by 2014, where are the numbers on this?
I say compromise. $5.00 increase per license type = Sunday being a hunting day like another, plus later season in Jan like another poster mentioned on here. It’s not just $5.00 period, more like at least $10.00 or more if you bow or Muzzle load like a lot of us do. With my schedule even taking some time off I am lucky to get out 7-8 days a season. Maybe many hunters taking a season off and not buying licenses at all would get their attention. I don’t own my own land(yet) but I agree that landowners should not have to purchase licenses.
Here’s another one: Why is it that only hunters have to buy National Forest stamps? I see people horseback riding, biking, hiking in there and they don’t have to buy anything but we have to. Either everyone should have to buy one or no one should, the way it is now is truly unfair.
Approve Sunday hunting and I might not have such a problem with it. If their financial situation is in ruin then Sunday hunting would attract more out of state hunters and probably more in state hunters.
I don’t mind the increase if are they finally are going to let
people go hunting on Sundays. Because many of us, work 6 days
a week and all we got is sunday.
The thing people keep missing is it’s not a $5 increase. Bowhunt? +$5. Muzzleload? +$5. You want to hunt big game? +$5. You want to hunt period +$5. You need a crossbow as well? +$5.
You’re up another $30 and what do we get to show for it? We get a proposition to make small antlered bucks count as antlerless (go look on the DGIF Website). What stupid rule that would be. No Sunday hunting.
The funny thing is the DGIF keeps trying to get more people involved in hunting. They started the apprentice program (they need to establish an online hunters safety course). They offer discounts on lifetime hunting licenses to young children… yet they raise licenses $30… It doesn’t make sense.
We need a better product if you’re going to raise prices. To the people saying $5 isn’t a lot, that’s a 28% increase in price. When does it stop? If everyone happily goes along and buys tags do they raise it again in 4 or 5 years? To the person that said our tags are cheap; yes they are b/c for the most part the hunting here is lower quality. Public lands aren’t managed properly and the game laws are way too liberal. The places that are more expensive offer a MUCH better product than what we have in VA.
I agree that with budget cuts what they are, fees will go up, but $5 is %30 increase for a fishing license. How about drawing more of that money from collected fines, and raise those fines to crippling amounts. We could invent the term “Aggressive Poaching” and charge anybody $3000 for hunting/fishing without a license.
Seriously, I think $5 increase is excessive when every year I see my access to fishing areas (cough) Kings Grants (cough) eliminated.
Here’s a proposal for discussion:
On the subject of the missing 110,000 potential landowner licensees leaving 4 million on the table that Mark mentions. If it takes landowners buying a license to get the money, fine. Then allow the cost of the license(s) bought to be deducted from either the landowner’s property taxes(preferred) or State income tax. That way the DGIF gets the money and the landowners wouldn’t be burdened as bad with the extra costs. Just a thought
As a landowner I think a $15 fee for hunting land I own and pay taxes on is steep. Before that happens DGIF needs to get a better handle on how many of us there are out there and how much $ they need before they would set such a figure. I have no doubt that IF they set the number too high and got more $ out of it than they figured, that their budget would rise to the level of the revenue rather than a rebate of fee to the landowner.
There are landowners I know who also buy licenses because they hunt other places than their own land.
DGIF has to give something to us landowners for the $. They can’t just expect to use the argument of “we need more $ and you have it and we want it so we are instituting licenses for landowners”.
And it sure as HECK better not be $15 to hunt, $15 for Big Game, $15 for archery, $15 for crossbow, $15 for black powder, and $15 for regular firearm. That’s a significant amount of $.
And, BTW, if they do something like that how about changing it so that these hunters who trespass legally by dog, quit having the RIGHT to do so under the statutes on MY LAND.
As a landowner I don’t want to see DGIF fail, but I also don’t want to be fleeced. Be fair and I will be fair.
T-Bone asked a good question, where are the numbers for the financial ruin by 2014? And exactly how much did that new headquarters in Richmond cost and where did that come from? how needed was it?
I agree with the license fees being more than 5.00 overall.u have to buy a big game , and regular hunting license , and bow and muzzle loader that adds up. I jsut dont see much representation and like I mentioned more of the bigger areas receive more benefit than us. hunting is being pushed by the liberals, animal rights activist and we dont neeed the VDGIF making harder . in montgomery county can only kill 1 a day on private land I should be able to take two if I choose. Dgif will issue a damage stamp to jsut about anyone. Make season longer and more does available . let hunters go into areas to hunt instead of the snipers. i go to an industrial park here in the noke to show my kids deer to get them intersted and place is lousy with em. I went to hunters burden opening day and 6 had been checked . and 9 more from the salem city kill hanging. Now that goes to hunters for the hungry which is good. Paying snipers and paying the processing fee Im sure. Give us an extra deer(doe) that most be donated to hunter for hungry. I know creates the issue of the merchant paying processing or us but give merchant a tax deduction for the expense . help the hungry and the merchant, and the population and the hunter
I would also like to add that it is easier to just raise the prices. Take the post office for example- how many billions of dollars are they in debt?? And they keep raising postage (5 times in 5 years!). It’s just easier for them to do that than to cut costs or find other revenue streams.
I will pay whatever it costs to hunt and fish, and I believe in what they do. I just don’t want to see more roadblocks for passing on the tradition.
Eddie S
The picture of financial ruin by 2014 is those political figures have to finally reach into their own pockets to pay for seemingly..
1)Inexpensive trips at tax payers expense.
2)Use of State Vehicles at Tax Payers expense.
3)Cell Phone usage at Tax payers expense.
4)Tax Payers paying their taxes…
5)Pay Raises
What a racket!
If fewer and fewer people are not hunting doesn’t this make PETA Happy? Like I’ve said on numerous occasions.
PETA goal hasn’t changed they just figured out smarter ways to accomplish it while we argue of small things within our hunting community.
Their Goal has never changed and they are wining.
One thing that complicates a debate such as this is that you can not easily quantify what you are “getting” for your money, although it is tempting to try to come up with a tangible product that you are spending your money on.
You don’t “get” five (or six) deer, three turkeys and a bear for the $18 you spend on a big game license. You don’t “get” 15 (or 25, or 35) trout for buying a trout license. You don’t “get” a guaranteed visit from a conservation police officer twice a year to help with trespassing problems. You don’t “get” a punch card good for 15 uses of a public boat launch on the James River.
Instead, what you get is the privilege to enjoy the hunting, fishing and boating the state has to offer. Could it be better? Sure. Could it be worse? Absolutely. It was MUCH WORSE before there was a state agency whose mission it was to manage the fish and wildlife resources.
Yes, there are individual landowners who can do a bang-up job managing for wildlife. Some do. They’re smart and disciplined and they have big enough plots of land to make it feasible. And they have money to do it. Anyone who has food plots know that it not only takes a lot of work, it takes a lot of money.
If you waive state-controlled fishing and hunting regulations (and, thus, management) on private land you’re going to end up with what they have in places such as England. The wealthy will have it great and the rest of us will be SOL.
As for the budget specifics, that’s a fair question. Due to hitting a traffic jam on the way to Richmond on Tuesday I got in only for the end of the budget presentation. What I saw was fairly simplified. Basically, it charted steadily rising costs (we all know that business costs are rising) alongside revenue that is stagnant, in part because license sales are down.
The DGIF’s budget information is all a matter of public record. I thought I might have a copy of the presentation in the pile of paperwork I brought home that day, but I can’t find it. I have requested one and when I get it (actually, already got it from DGIF head PR person Julia Dixon — Thanks, Julia!) I’ll dig through it and try to make as much sense of it as I can, and then pass the info on..
I just tried to upload the PowerPoint presentation on funding given at the DGIF meeting on Tuesday, and failed miserably. I am working on it.
Actually Mark,
The presumption that the operating cost of doing business as an entity is rising is a bit of a misnomer that is often pandered about by entities that are about to “raise fees”. Foe instance, one of the main expenses, which is fuel for DGIF vehicles, has GOT to be down. The price at the pump is down. And, working in a private sector manufacturing business, I can tell you that price concessions from suppliers is something we routinely negotiate and, upon occasion, demand.
The post office example above is a prime example. If the post office wants to increase revenue, how about being open at a time when those of us who work can patronize them? UPS has satellite stores that are open until 9, and cheaper than the ost office too.
Having had a game warden (now retired) in the family for 30 years I can tell you that the cars and other perks are used for personal use. I found this out when I let my brother in law use my boat and he left some unopened Quicksilver after he was dome and I called him asked him how much I owed for the unused oil and he said “DGIF paid for it”. Who hasn’t seen a law enforcement officer at the bank in his cruiser, or picking up their kid at school on it?
I hear you about the “privilege” of hunting, but, paying for the “privilege” of hunting on my own land? That’s a reach!
Has anyone considered comparing the liscense cost to that of NASCAR. They raised ticket prices to a level that has caused many to stop traveling to races. I believe it is a well known issue; but, to remind those in political power….we are in a recession. People have less money to spend. Look at the cost for a family of four to buy hunting and fishing liscense per year. We’ve had to give up seasons due to the cost (times 4).
There are several other philosophies that should be explored:
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I agree with several comments above. I don’t mind paying the fees for hunting as long as the hunters get something in return. It feels like the season gets shorter and the bag limits get lower and lower every year. I only kill what I plan to eat throughout the given year anyway and let small bucks walk all the time. I don’t understand how the DGIF says almost every year that the herds need to be thinned, but the doe bag limits seem to never change on public lands. Seems that if you raise the doe bag limit then the herd will thin out.
I have a 10 year old son who I am introducing into hunting and would love to have the extra days of an extended season to get him out in the woods. Especially when you see the enjoyment he gets from it.
My dad started me hunting when I was 8 and for us it is a family affair every year when time and schedules permit. With the economy in the toilet like it is, a lot of people can’t afford time off to hunt, and employers are reluctant to give time off due to production demands or whatever. I myself would be for lifting the Sunday hunting ban here in Va. or having an extended season or even an extra rifle season later in the year. Just because of the extra time that I would get to spend with family members doing something thatwe all love to do. Raising the fees won’t stop me from hunting but the shortage of the time available might. JC
Sure I’ll pay 5 extra dollars just let me hunt on sunday
Can someone please explain why landowners get to use the “I pay taxes” argument for a free ride from the DGIF? News flash: We all pay property taxes in one form or another. None of it, not even taxes on land, go to the game department.
Here’s an idea: If landowners pony up and buy a license, they get the full services of the DGIF. If they don’t, well, don’t bother calling a game warden the next time you have trespassers, spotlighters or other law problems.
Everyone who benefits from the DGIF’s services–wildlife management and law enforcement–needs to be paying for those services. No one, no one should be getting it for free while the rest of us subsidize it. That’s called welfare.
Many of the comments are right “on the money” in that VDGIF has worked themselves into a no win situation. They were, and are guilty of mismanagement which causes a loss of faith from the public. They continue to ignore the realities of market place economics by raising fees and increasing the barriers to hunt and then wonder why the number of hunters is declining. Even more telling is that VDGIF personnel appear to be trying to pit hunters against landowners in order to “win” their case for more money.
As a landowner and ex-hunter, VDGIF doesn’t really do much for wildlife on our property. They don’t provide food, (our crops do that), cover (that’s our trees) or sanctuary. If anything, I’ve had VDGIF officials try to interfere with the above by encouraging hunters to trespass. VDGIF no longer is the agency it was 50 years ago or even 25 years ago. It’s now full of bureaucrats and cop wanta be personnel who generally don’t understand working a job where you have to make a profit or go out of business.
I believe VDGIF will continue in the death spiral of raising fees, increasing regulations and declining license sales until there is either 1) structural changes to the agency or 2) some very, very smart person is is willing and able to change the culture of the agency to one of innovation, public service and working with both sportsmen and landowners. When they continue to raise fees and roadblocks to those wanting to participate, license sales numbers will continue to decline. When they continue to ignore the real needs of landowners, access to private land will be more restrictive. VDGIF must meet the needs of both or consign themselves to regulating hunting on public land because there won’t be much hunting on private land.
And, BTW, if they do something like that how about changing it so that these hunters who trespass legally by dog, quit having the RIGHT to do so under the statutes on MY LAND. –Bob H
No such thing as “legal Trespass”, if people are trespassing it is illegal.Call a CPO and let them deal with whatever law is being broken, if there is no law being broken nothing is being done illegally.I am a landowner and let people dog hunt on MY LAND and have no problems. Maybe you are making the problem. I also buy a license because I hunt in the NF and don’t see why a “dog comment” has anything at all to do with this subject of license increase.A lot of this seems to be getting down to a bunch of snot blowing and whining. How many have ever been to the Richmond meetings and expressed their opinions before the VDGIF face to face rather than sitting behind a key board and ranting.I see both sides of this license issue, but sometimes I think it just comes down to a “poor ol me” attitude that over shadows how much we have to enjoy in the outdoors. Anybody that didn’t realize a license increase was coming needs to come out of “Wonderland”.
Just another reason that I hunt out of state for big deer. Ohio out of state license is around $150 – but due to proper management, you have the best chance to harvest a trophy animal on either public or private land. I have hunted VA for past 24 years, and yes you can find big deer – occasionally. I harvested a 150 and 170+ last year out of state – VDGIF needs a lesson on proper game management to reduce the herd and not the quality of the herd at the same time. Big deer are all around Roanoke, but they got that way by getting old – cut the liberal buck harvests and gun seasons. one week of blackpowder and one to two weeks of rifle – period, unless a designated doe hunt. Allow Sunday hunting, develop a plan for more mature buck herd, and the out of state money will roll in. Even some of these landowners may be able to open trophy hunts – it’s all in management. oh yeah – I use no guides or services, it’s a lot of fun to be able to pass on bucks that in VA are “trophies”.
CRS…… Your not getting our point!
I am a landowner and I like to hunt other places. This year I will not hunt those other places due to the cost of all the licenses, I just cannot justify paying 90 dollars to hunt my other spot. This decision was made before I heard about the possible increase. (thats 90 dollars that the VDGIF will not see this year)
Here is who I feel sorry for: A Father with several kids and no huntable land who would like to hunt in National forest. Do the math.
Part of the answer is to do what many other states have done with much success, and expand Sunday hunting regulations, and opportunities. Based on 2006 US Fish and Wildlife Dept. statistics, there were 353,000 licensed resident hunters, and 60,000 licensed non-resident hunters in the Commonwealth. I understand that some would oppose any expansion of Sunday hunting regulations, and under this proposed program nothing would change for them. They could continue to choose not hunt on Sunday. By charging a Sunday hunter usage fee of $10 per resident, and $15 per non-resident, the VDGIF could generate revenue of nearly $4,000,000 based on a 75% purchase rate for residents, and a 100% purchase rate for non-residents. DGIF surveys from several years ago showed that better than half of all licensed Virginia hunters surveyed strongly supported Sunday hunting. I suspect that today more than 75% would actually participate, if truly given the opportunity. I’m confident that Sunday hunting would create many opportunities for children that now have to choose between Saturday’s organized activities or hunting. I mentioned 100% non-resident participation because I feel confident that by allowing Sunday hunting, VA would attract many additional hunters from surrounding states that prohibit Sunday hunting. Based on that same Fish and Wildlife Study when hunting expenditures are extended, conservatively, residents, and non-residents combined would spend $40,000,000, most of it here in Virginia, if general Sunday hunting was lawful. It’s right, and the time is right that we let all of our people choose whether they want to hunt on Sunday. I hope the VDGIF will urge our GA do make a positive change.
Respectfully,
Tony Rutherford
ENOUGH ALREADY! The propopsed fee increase is just another slap in the face to blue/no collar sportsmen&women in the Communistwealth!We already lose several WEEKS of turkey hunting because special interest groups want their members to have a better chance of getting a bird in the spring.The same with trout fishing. I caught several MONSTER TROUT out of local waters that caused me to question the legality(7 in. min.) of state stocked fish. Those of us that live in the West pay the same for our sport as the people in the East,with only a 2 week season on deer.Now,the VDGIF has imposed “earn a buck” in certain counties,including private land. My farmer/landowner told me once that,if I didn’t shoot more than 4 deer,my permission to hunt his land would be revoked.Of,course he was kidding,but what if he wasn’t? He wants the deer thinned out on his property because of the damage,and he doesn’t care if they are 6 1/2 year old B&C 200 class bucks,or 6 month old fawns.If,on opening day I see 2 bucks running together,I can only legally shoot one.I have no problem with VDGIF restricting public land,just leave the private land to the owner!
Many states cry about loss of revenue from outdoors sports over the last few years.This type of LUNACY caused it:”we’re losing money,so,increase the cost”
If enough of the POOR people can no longer afford it,it becomes a sport for the RICH!Why drive me and LOTS of other sportsmen/women out of the woods with a $5 per license increase?
BTW,am I mistaken in thinking VDGIF Consevation Officers patrol National Forest land? If not,they are paid from the funds received from license sales.Why not impose a separate lisence for hikers,campers,and others who use NF lands for free?Hunters & fishers must purchase a NF stamp to pursue our sport there,so why not them? That would help with SOME of the costs of VDGIF.
If the state needs more money why don’t they make every one buy a national forest stamp that use the national forest.I am tired of the hunters and fisherman having to buy one for recreation. But the dog walkers, horseriders, jogers, bikeriders, hikers and every one eles can use the national forest for free. This year alone ive been botherd by all of the above during deer season I just don’t think it is fair to pay to use the land and they can use it for free.
Bobby, May I suggest that you redeem some of you license investment, and have the landowner that gives you the privilege to hunt on his, or her property contact the VDGIF, and request a deer population survey. If the population supports it, they’d issue either DMAP, or DCAP tags. You could then legally harvest the numbers of deer the landowner wants without the cost burden associated with the license fees. I agree with your second post that users of the N/F other than hunters, and fishermen should pay for use of the property. I think you’ll see all uses carrying a charge soon, if it hasn’t already happened.
Mark, Thanks for the chance for everyone to hash this out and apparently blow off some steam. I have to say I am suprised to see how many have complained over the $5 increase. Va is still a cheaper to hunt in than a great many states. I agree with some of the comments posted by Scott, and vahunter( I know who you are) in that VA has what it takes to be a trophy deer state that would be the envy of neighboring states. As mentioned earlier, Ohio is the PRIME example. The DNR in Ohio actually plants fields of corn and other crops to provide food and hunting opportunities. They also do not allow the crazy liberal seasons VA has. Most of their hunting is with a bow, no rifle, just shotguns and muzzle loaders. And those firearms seasons are short. Rob mentioned the fact that he can pass up deer that his neighbors will kill at first chance. I know folks like that and they do not have the best interest of ethical hunters on their minds when they hunt. The problem in the Elliston/Shawsville area will see some improvement this year Rob. Keep your ears open and see how many you know that loose their 4-wheelers and firearms when getting caught in the sting operations. Arguing over a $5 increase only strengthens the Anti movement because they are hard at work while we are arguing. Like someone wrote, skip a trip through the drive-thru or if you are in the Elliston area, Daddy needs to leave that case of beer on the shelf at Alley’s Store on his way home everyday. Some advice that has nothing with fees, If you see or suspect someone breaking game laws, report it to the Game Warden or local police. Stop letting this trash steal our sport and blaming it on their lack of income! And one other note as a land owner, you know when you are trespassing so don’t be upset when you get arrested this year. Hunt in the National forest!
I knew a bar owner who, when business slowed down,he would raise the price of drinks to make ends meet. Business got a little slower so he raised the price again. He finally sold out.
We used to go to a lot of nascar races.Bristol tickets were$50-60 a piece and camping was around $75 a week. Tickets now are over $100 and camping is $200. We now watch it on TV.
I hope the VDGIF can figure out a better way to handle thier(OUR) money,so they dont run people off like nascar and bar owners have.
I can afford it but there are alot with kids and family that can’t. AH
National forest is owned and operated by the U.S. Forest Service.
From what I understand the Richmond Times has requested the salaries of all state workers through the feedom of information act. Once we see it Maybe there will be some fat to trim there from DGIF by reducing salaries or through layoff’s
I tried to get a DGIF game biologist to come out to my farm 5 yrs ago for ideas and to hear about the DMAP program ( My uncle and I have 420 acres between the 2 of us and wanted to get our neighbors signed up as well) and it was like pulling teeth to get him to come out. He was very arrogant on the phone so I ended up calling it off. This is the kind of service I have come to expect from DGIF.
I just read Cochorans article that said the DGIF is buying land like crazy , revamping hatcheries, and buidling a new office . What other business only asks for part of it’s customers (hunters and fisheman )to pay for everyone else and spends moeny when revenue is down except the government !!!!! HEY money is down lets go spend more. Guys watch a video called fall of the republic on u tube. a way tog et on u property to snoop. Fishguts : I dont want charity as I said I do more for land than the DGIF, i dont see them paying for someone to come plow my field planting seed , monitoring the land or any of that . Where I hunt I have a guy that lives below got permission from my uncle to hunt adjacent to my piece on my uncles land. he lives there and gets to scout all year . i live 45 min away. Life isnt fair. Hunting is based on tradition and tradition says if I own land i dont pay. Do you own land??? Put uself in our shoes would you b upset???? Bet so. I agreee with the death spiral VDGIF is in trouble and there are no easy answers. Make a tax category for outdoor items(not an additional tax on us) that funds outdoor use for all of those items. Take half of court costs for violations to contribute back.and violate the law fines higher to keep em honest. i dont wnat no charity. I do more for place than anyone else.
also how many of us are huntign total in virginia. gimme a break down of how many of us are land owners and how many arent . gimme figures
what about something smaller . When was the last time u heard a bobwhite around these parts????? Managament HA
$1000 + for whichever gun you just cant live without…no problem
$300 + for whichever muzzleloader you just cant live without…no problem
$300 + each for whichever scope(s) you just cant live without…no problem
$500 + for whichever Bow you cant live without…no problem
$300 + for whichever camo/boot combos you cant live without…no problem
$100 + for 3 months + hunting for the buck of a lifetime or just meat in the freezer…..BIG PROBLEM!!
Get over ourselves(no spelling problems)!!!!!!! Your license is the cheapest thing you buy!!
If you would enjoy seeing how the VDGIF can spend money. Come to a presentation at the Natural Bridge Gym and Community center at 1900 21 October 2010. They are having a presentation on the Short Hill land purschase that two years ago they won’t pay 4.6 Mil but decided to pay 6Mil last year. They are invinting all the many landownders around this property and everyone can get a better understanding just what this tract contains and how far the walk will be from the parking area to many acres of hunting. A lot of info has came to light that will be interest to the hunters that anyoone desires to use for other purposes
As an out-of-state hunter from South Carolina I understand the DGIF’s need to find other revenue sources. Our Department of Natural Resources in South Carolina is having the same problem and has taken an almost 50% cut in it’s budget over the past 5 years. However, as an out-of-state hunter I think a $50 jump in license fees, in just one year, is too much. I, along with several friends, come to Virginia every year to bow hunt for deer in the Fall and turkey hunt in the Spring. We stay 4-5 days each visit. We love to visit the Commonwealth and really enjoy it’s beauty and wonderful people. But, we, like every other working individual, are experiencing our own financial difficulties at home. All of us have taken pay cuts in the past few years due to the country’s financial crisis. A $50 increase would really hurt us and would make us pause and think about our trips to Virginia. If Sunday hunting were allowed it would make the increase a little more palatable, but $50, in one year, is just a lot – especially during these times. I understand a need for an increase, but I would like to see a smaller increase proposed.
I still think alot of folks on here are wearing blinders on this issue. Yes $5 may not seem like alot but when will the next increase be and the next one after that? I understand that the license is the cheapest thing we buy but we buy it every year. I do not by a new gun/bow every year so the money I have invested in the ones I own was a one time fee. I do not have a problem paying for a license every year but I have an issue with my fees being raised due to a budget shortfall and it makes me wonder what $$$ is being diverted from DGIF to another government agency to fund some social program that just enables someone to be lazy and not do for themselves all at our expense. I think everything should be questioned and not taken at face value and tell me exactly what I am going to get with this increase and make it happen. Is it going to fund more conservation officers, provide more suitable trout waters, make wildlife management areas better habitat for deer, turkey, bear, grouse, etc. or is it going to be dipped into by DSS, the DMV, VDOT or VEC? I guess only Gov. McDonnell knows!
If the DGIG owns the animals on my property and the fed gvt owns the state then I should have to pay a fed license too!!! wait it is coming !!
brian
It’s not about what a person does with their money that’s irrelevant to the issues.
Do hunters tell you what type vehicle to buy, the size of home you must live in or the type of diamond that’s on your wife’s hand or the your children should settle for in life because it doesn’t get better than this?
The issue of raising licenses is a bad joke, when people that doesn’t hunt nor fish use the Parks at the hunters expense…and what do hunters want a full week of hunting, but that issue is dead but taking our money isn’t?
That’s just more immorality petulance on DGIF part.
Was it not 2 years ago Salt Water fishermen licenses was raised to create money for roads and highways?
So if I spend X-amount on a bow or firearm it’s my rather our business and choice…
Not holding Sunday Hunting hostage until we meet ransom demands..
That’s State run terrorism.
I’m confident that there will be increases in VDGIF revenues. I’m confident that they will be smart enough to figure how to increase revenue, while giving sportsmen something of value. I sold product to local, and state agencies in the past. I’m not sure if the condition still exists or not. Then, next year’s budget was based on what was spent this year for example. It was basically spend it or lose it. I wonder if this is what’s taking place? I don’t see the GA ever passing a bill that would require a landowner and/or his associates to purchase licenses. They have too much influence, and are too well represented. Being license exempt is a perk they deserve. Let them continue to pay their share of taxes, and let them, and their insurance carriers be responsible for damage caused by wildlife. I’d pay $10 to hunt on Sunday, $10 for a set of bonus either sex deer tags, $5 for an additional fall turkey tag, and $10 for an additional spring gobbler tag. I’d have a bitter taste in my mouth if fees were increased, and I got nothing in return. I don’t see that taking place. I don’t see a Governor that complains about wasteful spending signing a bill of that nature. I’d pay most landowners license fees if things changed, in exchange for hunting rights. I suspect I’d have to take a number on that one. The one thing we all have on our side is history. Historically, and overall, when issues like this arise, the Commonwealth has done what’s best for most. You won’t see landowner licensing requirements. You will see increased revenue in the VDGIF, but it will be associated with a value to the sportsman. Let’s move onto something positive. I vote that comment on this issue be closed.
Tony
I think not…Why do hunters have to pay up while freeloaders get a free ride at hunters expense? Now Tell what damage have you seen in the National Forest wild animal caused?
Now if you are talking about deer car collisions at Virginia Insurance quote of last year at somewhere near $100,000,000 dollars in Virginia alone and West Virginia drivers lead the U.S. in collisions with deer for the third year in a row… causing more than $1 billion in vehicle damage annually quoting Associated press.
Let’s not leave out deaths and bodily injuries totaling a half a billion dollars.
It would seem that Virginia Hunters is doing more for the state and it’s surround counties by harvesting a few deer.
Here’s a question what’s going to happen when some of these hunters don’t hit the woods? Insurance in areas with high deer density is sure to increase with car accidents.
What happens if someone dies trying to avoid hitting a deer or they hit a deer?
So who is suffering by ignoring the issue or refusing to talk about it further? Why raise the price of ammo, or tax a hunter further Why ignore or just bring up Sunday Hunting and they know very well they-can change this law just as well as they have their hand out.
Hunting is a great way to fellowship with other hunters, and supplement a families income with venison or fish in the freezer.
Nothing can be achieved when a hunter fall silent to the hunt or go underground to bag a deer.
For as long as people is willing to discuss this issue it should remain open for the public. That’s what a public forum is all about.
lets take our energy here and write our representatives and let them know how we feel . Better use of our energy there than here
Tony,
This is exactly why this country is in the state it is in, because we decided to move on and not question things and accept it. As long as I am being asked to pay for something and possibly have to pay more for it and on top of taxes that are already taken from me every 2 weeks by figurative gunpoint, I don’t think i’ll be shutting my mouth anytime soon and no one else should either.
I used to love fall/spring turkey season. I would harvest a deer for venison. Fall turkey season was shortened several years ago. (No turkey during general firearms…maybe safety issues here.) No opportunity to hunt on Sunday really limited me to only a few hunting days (hours) per season. My vacation time is limited to summer.
So…..I haven’t hunted, or purchased a license in many years. I spend all my former hunting time, PLUS SUNDAYS, on the water chasing stripers, walleyes,smallmouth and catfish…which ever wants to cooperate!
I would like to see more deer harvested. Hopefully the increase in cost will give each hunter more tags and opportunities. The only change that might convert me into a hunter again would be Sunday hunting.
Just my two cents worth of reasons I don’t hunt anymore…..
Amature,
While I can appreciate your passion on the issue, the bottom line is no real hunter is going to quit hunting or buying lisences over up to a $25 bump in his license per year. Facts are facts. Everything costs more INCLUDING HUNTING LICENSES. I dont really like it either but we have live with it and keep going. In the grand scope of things it isnt much… 5 packs of cigs.(nasty habit anyway), couple cases of beer(maybe not), less than a round of golf and as noted before, less than most everything you buy for hunting.
Without the raise in fees the state would have to look at dropping hours for wardens and other employees or worse lay them off. I have seen the benefit of these individuals firsthand and would hate to see that happen. The landowners forget that the first call they make when something happens on their land is the game warden(what does the state do for landowners?) or if they call 911 the game warden almost always comes out.
Its easy to forget the benefits you enjoy when your blinded by anger.
I am not blinded by anyhting . keep in mind sunday hunting leads to more hours for the wardens or more wardens which means more fees again . As i said who else says hey we broke but lets go spend more money buying up land, taking trips to africa to study culling techniques.
Amateur, it wasn’t my intention to twist any whiskers. You mention the National Forest and wildlife caused damage. I suspect it doesn’t exist for the most part, and if it did, it would be a federal issue, wouldn’t it? If I’m not mistaken a National Forest stamp costs a hunter $4.00. Based on my research, hunters who buy a stamp pay .0000022 cents per acre to hunt as they wish, within state regulation, on about 1.8 million acres. I just paid about .10 cents an acre to hunt 6,000 acres, and I couldn’t be more satified with the investment. I assume that the National Forest stamp revenue goes into the U.S. Treasury, and not the Commonwealth’s? I would also assume that the Federal Government compenstates the state for expenses related to law enforcement on N/F lands. I believe people that fish there are also required to purchase a N/F stamp. I have no idea what the fishable water area is. I wouldn’t disagree that anyone that uses the N/F should have to pay a usage fee. It would make sense that if users other than hunters, and fishermen also paid a usage fee, that the N/F fee would be less for everyone. If all this takes place does it truly help Virginia, and/or the VDIGF? I suspect there will be those that will no longer hunt because of increases in license fees. License fees have increased over the years but I don’t personally know anybody that hung it up because they couldn’t afford it, or just got fed up. I also suspect that, as the number of hunters are reduced through attrition, you will see bag limits increase. Fewer hunters will be responsible for more wildlife management. If increasing bag limits doesn’t control wildlife populations, then there is a likelyhood that your tax dollars will be paid to firms that kill for hire. While some refuse to pay a nominal increase in hunting license fees, their taxes may increase by more than the proposed license fee increases in order to pay for out of control wildlife population control. I’ll spend about $1,500 to $2,000 this year, all inclusive, to hunt for about five months. I hunt deer with three weapons, and fall and spring turkey. My brother just spent several thousand dollars to bowhunt for elk in CO for three days. He won’t tell me the exact amount. I believe that his license, understanding that he’s a non-resident, cost more than what it would cost to buy all the licenses a Virginia hunter would need, including small game, big game, bow or crossbow, and muzzle. You could probably throw in the cost of N/F, and state forest stamps as well. We got it good my friend. I wish the department would offer a license menu. I’ve bought a bear license for four decades, yet never bear hunted. Never have even seen one. One bear was killed in the two counties that I hunt in over the last two seasons. There are more deer and turkeys than you can shake a stick at. These counties support more deer, and turkey harvest than’s taking place. Over hunters in counties with sufficient game populations the ability to purchase additional license. Restrict license availability in counties that need it. Do you think a diehard bear hunter would pay say $50, perhaps $100 for a license that allowed him to harvest three bears over a two year period? I know I would if I was a bear hunter. I would pay more than I do now if I could choose the license(s) I wanted. I don’t small game hunt, haven’t in years, yet I buy a license each year. Save me the cost of a small game, and bear license and influence me to spend it on deer, and turkey. Charge a nominal fee to hunters that use DMAP tags. You think they’re going to sit on a stand a let does run by, while their buddy on the next stand collects them? The department needs to look for ways to increase revenue, reduce overhead, and influence wildlife management through effective license marketing. The one price fits all license is not the answer, never was. I’m confident they’ll see the light. They’re a state agency that has never had to market for the most part, and it’s time they learn. Influencing revenue growth, and effective wildlife management through effective marketing! Who would have ever thunk it?
Jim, I didn’t ask you to shut your mouth. I never would, I’m a gentleman. I suggested we move onto something positive. I’m not sure that Sunday hunting leads to additional game warden expense. I’m fairly sure they work on Sundays already. Unless the ones I see are just out for a cruise in the state’s Tahoe. I saw a report that was posted on a deer hunting forum. I believe it was posted by a state CPO. The report included ten incidences, and spanned from early last May to Oct. 12th. Ten incedences! I’m surprised he had the balls to post it. With all the need to reduce state spending someone of power may see the report, and realize we’re policing ourselves basically. He may be out of a job soon, if the trend keeps up. The US Fish and Wildlife study from 2006, which is the most recent, stated that there were about 7,000,000 hunter days, and 10,000,000 fishermen days that year in VA. Assuming that those numbers are about the same today, we have a bigger issue with jaywalking than we do with hunting, and fishing violations.
brian
My love of the hunt isn’t skewered, it’s the thought of raising the fees that’s putting things beyond my reach.
One of the main stinking points is the hostage holding of Sunday Hunting. Why hold one day hostage because of idealism, morals, or what?
Heck I’ve been working 6 to 7 days a week this year and I have only been fishing twice. Since Bow season open and if we were allowed to hunt on Sunday’s I would have been able to hunt once because of my schedule.
How many guns do Church members hear on these bow days? None. How many Church members would like to bow hunt on Sunday that you know?
I’ve met over 50 so we can’t have hunting on Sundays and these nincompoops walk around no..
Strut around like a “Barn Yard” demanding higher fees which they will jack up any way to fund their lavish vacations, cars and pay raises.
While they stick it to the working class because we paid their way. And they will not cough up Sunday Hunting for what? More of the money we need in our homes. So let’s make those that feed their families suffer…
When it comes to money, politicians can make it disappear better than David Copperfield.
brian
Far as smoking I don’t, my father died from lung cancer at 50 that’s out. 6 pack of beer still have 4 from the last 6 pack bought in July. I’ve haven’t golfed in years…
and I made a typo it supposed to have read
Strutting around like a “Barn Yard Pimp” Demanding money.
Mark, I read your post from Oct. 6th. What a great comparison. I had heard that decades ago the director of the VDGIF was much like the golf course owning Grandfather you wrote about. He vowed that hunting on Sunday in Virginia would never take place. I suspect his influence re: Sunday hunting still has effect today. I read a quote from Bob Duncan, and if I’m not mistaken, I read it on the VDGIF website, “there is no biological reason to ban hunting on Sunday, it is strictly a social issue”. I feel some have issues with the taking of another being’s life on Sunday. I appreciate, and respect that. If I had those convictions I would have no interest in hunting on Sunday, but I wouldn’t oppose another that wished to do so. Sadly, the social interests of some, including some that hunt, continues to keep others from enjoying their personal choice of lawful activity. Slowly, more Sunday hunting opportunities become lawful. I read where, for the first time ever, coon hunting (chasing without weapons or killing) is legal during any Sunday hours within prescribed seasons. Trapping, which involves killing, has been legal Sundays for as long as I can remember. I imagine if the two Grandpas we write about were alive today to see that our state’s ABC stores are open on Sunday they’d roll of in their grave. Based on the fact that none of the numerous Sunday hunting bills that have been introduced have gotten any real consideration from the GA, I think it will require a suit against the state based on discrimination. I don’t know that a suit would overturn the ban, but it would be difficult, in my opinion, for any judge not to recognize that the law is unjust, unfair and biased, unconstitutional, and in itself contradictory. Organizing, and funding the action looks to be near impossible, as many would rather hang up their boots over a license fee increase, than fight for what’s right. Charging a Sunday hunter fee should address the additional cost, if any. If a hunter chooses not to hunt on Sunday, he doesn’t participate financially in an activity that he wouldn’t support socially, our spiritually. He could demonstrate his opposition through non-support, and non-partication. I know folks that say they don’t support Sunday hunting personally, but when I’ve looked into it further, they aren’t against it so much, but their wives wouldn’t allow them to do it even if it were legal. So some people can’t do it, and since they can’t they don’t want others to do it either…..strange, and selfish.
Tony Rutherford
Yes cities will pay outside entities to cull the herds of deer as they did last year at a tune of $20,000 dollars why not give local hunters the opportunity to be involved. Instead they councilmen are calling friends and making deals that’s costing tax payers when a tax payer can do it on their already pay for license and save tax payers money.
That’s community involvement I can agree upon.
Even today I spoke to someone about hunting and culling of the deer herds in the city limits and it was the usual “Why do you want to shoot Bambi”.
Because Bambi is edible when it’s properly prepared and I don’t associate animals such as deer to a talking fictional Disney character.
He became so angry and said I hope you die. I told him we all will it’s just a matter of time… and I said oh by the way God Bless You.
His response to that isn’t worth posting.
It’s just that we got to get on the same page about licenses fees and get the Sunday Hunting Ban overturned. It’s a Old Blue Law that is useless as Virginia’s Blue laws…
1)There is a state law prohibiting “corrupt practices of bribery by any person other than candidates.
Seems this one is doing fine here.
2)You may not engage in business on Sundays, with the exception of almost every industry.
If I tell my employer that I would be out of a job.
3)No animal may be hunted for on Sunday with the exception of raccoons, which may be hunted until 2:00 AM.) Full text of the law. http://www.dumblaws.com/law/105
I’ll just stop while I’m ahead.
Amateur….Thanks for the comment. Looks like this comment session is at it’s end, and that may not be best, and it might be my fault. I suggested we close comment on the issue, when I probably should have suggested that we continue to share on the topic, but only share what solutions we can offer. Interest in the VDGIF’s financial condition may be the one thing that the majority of hunters are unifed on. Maybe some of the unity can help a push for the expansion of Sunday hunting. Amateur, you, myself, and everyone else that cares about hunting needs to get involved polictically and do what they can to influence what changes we want. Hunters have so much collective power, and incredible financial might. Money is king in today’s economic climate. The DGIF says they need money. Where do they get the majority of it? Few of us are wealthy individually, but all of us are filthy rich collectively. We have the money to get anything done, but we don’t have the organization, and we’ve never learned how to flex our “Money Muscle”. Amateur, you, myself, and everyone else that cares about hunting needs to get involved polictically. We need to learn who represents us in the House, and in the Senate if we don’t already know. We need to contact them and share how we feel. We need to demonstrate how what we wants makes the best sense. They can’t read are minds, and I seriously doubt they read these blogs, so you’ll have to get intouch with them. They only contact you when they need money, or votes, or both. You mentioned councilmen calling friends to cull deer herds. Honestly, if I was a councilman I’d called my friends too. I called friends that I knew were responsible, safe hunters, and accurate with their weapon. If I were you I’d become friends with the councilman that calls these types of shots in my town. I’d start with an e-mail. I’d introduce myself, express interest in helping control the deer herd, and ask what procedure I needed to follow to gain hunting access. Once you know what’s required, and you’re certain you are qualified, ask for permission. If permission isn’t granted, find out why. Share what you find with the mayor, if that does work, ask the local news if they have an interest in reporting what’s happened. I almost left Mark, and the paper out. Get in touch with the paper. Make sure the public knows something wrong is taking place, if it truly is. If it’s important you owe to yourself to get involoved, and make changes.
When you’re asking about hunting access you may want to offer to process the deer you take, and help with “Hunters for the Hungry”. If he says no then, and you meet all requirements, then you have something to expose.
I decided I should try to calculate what I’ve spent on licenses over the past 40 years to get an idea if it’s been a good investment. I also wanted to give serious thought to what I have to show for that investment. I’m sure with extensive research I could have determined exactly what I paid each year for licenses, but for the sake of conversation I estimated, and averaged. I’m confident that the numbers are close enough to know what kind of investment it’s been. I used a factor of $15 for the first license I bought,(I believe the number is actually $12…six dollars each for a small, and a big game license. I used a $72 factor for the license I have now, which is accurate. I added $15 and $72 then divided by two. Based on that formula my estimated average annual license cost is $43.50. I multiplied $43.50 times 40(number of years hunted) to get an estimated lifetime license investment. That number is $1,740. It’s not exact, but I’m confident it’s close enough for this exercise. So what do I have to show for that investment? I have a lifetime of fond memories, and if hunting was outlawed today, they couldn’t be taken away. Many of those are memories of times I shared with my Dad, who passed in 1990. But do I have anything concrete to show for the $1,740 investment. Well, I somewhat own about 200,000 acres of State WMA land. So does everyone else. Yes, some folks have the same rights as hunters do, eventhough they may have never contributed one red cent. I became curious what I invested in that 200,000 acres. I’m sure if I wanted to research for hours I could get a pretty close number, but, again for the sake of conversation I decided to calculate my WMA investment based on 50% of my license revenue going towards those land purchases. I have to believe the actual number is much lower than that. Anyway, using a 50% factor, I came up with a per acre cost of .00435…..WOW! I have access to 200,000 managed acres at less than a penny each. One of the best things is I never have to get a written permission slip, and I never have been called work any WMA workdays. When I get there the roads are always in good shape, and the property is well maintained. What a deal. I hope the dept. continues to buy every last huntable acre that comes available. Let’s embrace the VDGIF. They are our lifeline. Let’s find solutions that help us get what we want.