2012.02.06
Turning the talk to fishing, and possible regs changes
My Outdoors page story in Friday’s Roanoke Times covered some of the issues the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries is looking at as it mulls potential fishing regulations changes.
The official proposals will be made later this spring, and voted on in August. They will take effect Jan. 1, 2013.
Ideas include changing the slot limit at Briery Creek reservoir to encourage anglers to remove a few smaller bass from the lake in the hopes it will increase the growth rate of larger bass. A similar idea is being floated for the striped bass fishery at Kerr Reservoir. Another potential new rule is the establishment of a 10-fish limit on yellow perch at Lake Moomaw, where the once amazing perch fishing has fallen on hard times.
One issue brought up, but with no potential regulations changes being proposed, is the decline of the smallmouth fishery in the section of the New River from Claytor Dam through Radford. Biologists agree that the river there is lacking in those 14- to 20-inch smallmouth that are so important for the fishery. But they don’t know why. Potential causes under consideration included catch-and-release mortality, poor spawning classes, and possible predation from otters or muskies.
I got a good email on the topic this morning from an angler who has strong thoughts. I am hoping he posts it here as a comment, or gives me the OK.
In the meantime, what do you all think about the ideas? Any other changes you’d like to see?
One of my previous post on Electrostatic checking of fish in the New River in 2010, I saw more Cat Fish and Large Mouth Bass in the New River at the Gentry Landing Area. It was amazing to see the number and sizes of them. As before the vast amount of cats shocked up came from the middle of the river in the high choke weed grasses.
Flat Heads, and Channels, and believe Blues perfect clear bellies, some small spots on them. from 3 to 20lbs.
The biggest Flat head had to weight near 50lbs. 4 big muskies about 6-35lbs. While they were revving in the tub they were very docile.
Those Flat Heads were anything but that. One Flathead placed in a tub of large Small Mouths 3 of which were in the 5lb range was inhaled by the Flat head with gusto.
Nearly all of the larger smallmouths and Large mouths came from the edge of the bank and the large catfish came from the middle of the high grasses as well as the Muskies.
The smaller fish where near the rocky points were they were crevices for hiding or security.
To me the bigger basses have become the dominate prey of larger muskies and flat heads when they enter those grasses. And the Grasses have taken over the the New River, Claytor Lake, like in Pandapas Pond.
In some Florida Lakes and reservoirs they had the same problem with Large mouths reaching their full growth potential. Once Florida DNR went on a program to bring those weeds and grass under control the Bass population and fishing improved.
As well as more people started to revisit lakes, ponds and streams. But in the bodies of water where the weeds have gotten out of control this is just one of those things that haven’t clicked yet with DNR.
Comment by The Amatuer — February 6, 2012 @ 12:01 pm
Besides who wants to fish in river that resembles a swamp. And who want to fish when you’re harassed by other fishermen about what you keep and what you let go.
Come on people let’s get it together..
Comment by The Amatuer — February 6, 2012 @ 12:06 pm
I think removal of the Little River dam and addressing the sediment issues in that watershed would go a long way toward a healthier fishery on the New from Radford downstream.
Comment by Jason — February 6, 2012 @ 1:11 pm
This is slightly off topic, but I have a general comment about slot limits for fish, especially non-indigenous species like stocked stripers in Smith Mountain Lake(SML). I know I will be in the minority here, but I think slot limits are a bad thing for fishing in general.
Sure, I know slot limits protect the somewhat larger class fish to get bigger. But for a regular guy like myself who doesn’t get to fish that often and rarely even catches a striper, my idea of a trophy isn’t anywhere near what a pro would consider a big fish. If I am fishing in SML(Nov – May) and catch a 35 inch striper (nearly 3 ft long!) I cannot legally keep that fish. The idea of releasing a fish that size makes me not want to bother trying.
I realize for the guys who are out there every day and who know how to catch them, the resource would not last very long without limits. I think a traditonal minimum size limit is alot more fair to the average fisherman. We still would have the creel limits and I expect the people that fish every day are releasing most fish anyway. Does anybody agree with me on this?
Comment by Ranger217 — February 6, 2012 @ 11:14 pm
Ranger217 – SML is still recovering from the die-off last decade and the slot limit is an important tool that is in place to help restore the SML striped bass fishery to the best that it can be.
What good does taking that slot fish (or larger) home do? It removes the ability for you or other anglers to enjoy the thrill of catching that fish, which has taken at least 10 years or more on average for a striped bass to reach the top end of the 26″ slot limit, another time.
Take a photo and return that fish to the lake. If you want that “trophy on the wall”, then take several photos, some measurements and then look into a good replica mount – then you can sit back and look at the fish knowing it is hopefully still out there providing enjoyable memories to other anglers, and perhaps yourself on another day.
Comment by Mike — February 7, 2012 @ 11:04 am
This isn’t one of the proposed changes, but I’ll speak my mind, anyway. I’d like to to see some changes to the trout stocking program, notably a decrease in the creel limit from 6 to 4 or even three. A fellow angler put it best when he said Virginia’s trout program is nothing more than a modern day cheese program. It’s basically a food source for those living near stocked waters. I used to fish for stockers until I gave up a couple of years ago. Two days after streams are stocked, there are few, if any, trout left. I talk to others who see the same folks on freshly-stocked streams day in and day out. What are they doing with all those fish? The trout program isn’t supposed to be a food source. It’s meant to be a source of recreation. If a guy wants to feed his family, he should bring his family and let them catch their own fish. Rant over.
Comment by Fish — February 7, 2012 @ 1:49 pm
I sometimes wonder the same thing, Fish. I don’t mind smoking up a few stockers now and then. But how many of those things can you eat?
I’m not a fan of the “is what it is” saying, but that is appropriate in this case. And what is it?: “catchable trout” program or “put-and-take” program.
Comment by Mark Taylor — February 7, 2012 @ 1:54 pm
@Mike
I agree with Ranger217, because of my previous post. The larger fish aren’t becoming larger off of bait fish alone. And lowering the slot size for larger more aggressive can only help.
Once fishing under the 114 bridge where using that road to the New River is suppose to be off limits for fishing..
I caught a trophy size large mouth bass, but was directed to release it by a Game Warden or face being ticketed. So I released it, few days later by chance I ran into another Game Warden and told him what happen. He told me the regs and said I was in the right to keep the fish being it met the criteria.
I like to say an honest mistake on his behalf. From what I’ve seen fishing the New River, Claytor Lake, and few surrounding areas and ponds. People are encouraged to the point of being chastised by other fishermen to release bass, but not the Trout. Why?
I’ve even seen people arguing with fishermen at the 1st boat ramp near Claytor Lake about catching to many Crappie.
It’s any wonder to me that the anti-hunters are winning.
Comment by The Amatuer — February 7, 2012 @ 2:11 pm
To each his own/within legal limits!!
Comment by LARRY — February 7, 2012 @ 7:27 pm
I want to know when the VDGIF is goig to become PROACTIVE instead of REACTIVE? All of the above regulations are prime examples of them waiting until the damage is done to do something!The Shenandoah, upper James river,briery and Lake Moowmaw are all examples of fisheries that in my 42 years of life have seen go to crap! I used to go to moomaw and catch and release 50-80 yellow perch a day with 20 or so being citaion size. Now you can hardly catch a couple of dinks. Passing a regulation to keep 10 a day will not help without a size limit. They need time to grow and repopulate. For some reason the VDGIF doesn’t get it that you pass laws to protect the fisheries and wildlife while it is here NOT after it is gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by andrew campbell — February 7, 2012 @ 8:18 pm
It’s a PERCHY SPAWNING MOON.The perch know how to fix this.Will we let them?(those perch are still having sex and nothing seems to stop them.)
Comment by Speckeye Chris — February 8, 2012 @ 8:09 am
Giant Mako Shark takes out Marlin vid
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8209899/fisherman-films-3m-sharks-attack-on-marlin
Comment by The Amatuer — February 10, 2012 @ 4:22 pm
I agree with Larry.. to each his own but it definitely has to be within legal limits.
Comment by Fishing Trips — February 17, 2012 @ 12:57 am
Mark,
The New River is not in dire straights by any shape of the imagination. In fact, it is right where it should be, and I couldn’t disagree more with your comments or the VDGIF’s comments and shocking results. Radford and Whitethorne are the most pressured sections of the river, and where the most tournaments occur, and over time, this will have a deeper cyclic affect. I count 14 sections of river from Claytor Lake to Stateline Falls on the WV/VA border, and I fish them all, regularly. Each section is on about a 5-yr cycle. For example, 3-4 years ago, killing them at Radford. Last year or two, not so much, however sections that weren’t fishing good 3-4 years ago are now much better. The river is loaded with 17″-18″ fish, and these are the fish we need to protect. Caught them all winter, and they are there in big numbers, just look at the previous spawn data. RIGHT WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. I have repeatedly asked the VDGIF to raise the slot limit to 22″. The James is 22″, and our fish are bigger and grow faster. This would help tremendously. Also, you speak that the VDGIF says that slot limit fish are protected, so we can’t we do anything more. That is untrue b/c only the Little River is protected. I have repeatedly asked the VDGIF to include all creek mouths along the New River in the slot limit. You can, and people do, take 100′s of slot limit fish out of the river legally every year. And I will end it with this, the VDGIF are great people. John Copeland has done an excellent job, and he has had a call into me for a couple of weeks for my opinion on things, and I just haven’t had a chance to get back with him. Electric shocking is not all that accurate and has many variables. In a low water year, such as this year, they will never get an accurate count on the number of adult fish in the river b/c of where they shock. I saw John all fall, and he was struggling to shock adult fish, and we were smoking them. Finally, I will say increased pressure will certainly change how the fish react and how aggressive they will be. VDOT shutting down Pepper’s Ferry Bridge had an incredible negative affect on the New River in Giles b/c of a tremendous increase in angling pressure. Also, the struggles of the James, ‘Doah, Susky and other eastern rivers have added to the pressure. However, the fish are still there. Change your tactics, look in different places, and take care of all fish that you catch and release, and she will be hitting on all strides in about two years. It is not what we have done or what once was, it was do from now on that will make the difference. In the meantime, the musky are at the top of the mountain, and if you want a 50″-er, there’s never been a better time than RIGHT NOW!!!
Comment by Britt Stoudenmire — February 19, 2012 @ 10:27 pm
I must say I agree with Mr. Stoudenmire on most of his opinions and observations concerning the New. One thing I vary on is the slot of 14″-20″. He wants to raise it to 22″, I want it changed so that NOTHING over 14″ is allowed in an anglers possession.
I also would like to see river tournaments abolished. They are especially harmful during April and May, as the smallmouth need to be undisturbed so they can procreate. Moving large fish miles from their home territory only reduces the young of the year more.
Comment by Sam Rorrer — March 18, 2012 @ 5:28 pm
Sam — The idea of not having a top limit to a slot just isn’t going to fly because it takes the New River (or any body of water) out of play for state record consideration.
If the upper end of the slot is increased to 22 inches — and I agree with Britt that it makes sense based on the slots in other rivers — you still give a person a chance to record a state record (and maybe even still release it, as Donnie Eaton Jr. did with his 8-1 a few years ago).
As for tournaments, there is no doubt some mortality. There is in most summer tournaments. Increasing the slot to 22 inches could help with that because you’d be cutting those 20-inchers out of tournament play. Move the lower end of the slot to 12 inches and you’d essentially kill all river tournaments. I’m not saying I support that idea, I’m just saying it would effectively kill river tournaments.
Comment by Mark Taylor — March 19, 2012 @ 12:27 pm
Taking the New River out of state record consideration for the better of the fishery? Hmmm, guess Lake Erie didn’t get that AO when they established their trophy season. Guess that little C&R lake in SW VA producing huge smallies didn’t get that AO when they implemented a no-take regulation at all. Guess the Susky didn’t get that AO when the banned smallmouth fishing during the spawn. Who cares about state records any way, particularly if you make it public and the RT pretty much reports GPS coordinates to where it was caught like the musky was treated. Just why Alex and David Scott, who both caught that fish, never took it in. They loved the New River and their beloved monster more than some record. I also love the New River more than any record and believe firmly that the VDGIF, is, at this point, being too reactive on a fishery which is rising back fast, but in a very different point in her history. Issues across the board have changed affecting our smallies, and the VDGIF needs to change their management plan to reflect the changes in the fishery, period!!! If that happens NOW, then in about 2-3 years, just where nature has put us, we will experience what we are meant to experience!!!! Until then, I will continue to fight for her…
Comment by Britt Stoudenmire — April 1, 2012 @ 11:58 pm
Is the antiquated practice of “Trophy Fish” as determined by the VDGIF really that big of a deal? This is something that has run its course and now it’s time to move on. I’m old enough to see how catch and release helped our fisheries, but I also remember the resistance that went along with it. The mentality then was “I paid my $3.50 for a license, I’ll keep everything”. We live in a society now that hands out trophies at the drop of a hat, and a lot of anglers have the trophy mentality and think this is the right thing to do. I have caught fish and bragged about it and I know how good this feels. But rather than pulling one of the biggest, if not the biggest fish out of a body of water, just to have your ego stroked, why not stop and think about a few things first? What can I do to have a better chance at catching a fish this size again? If I keep it, can I catch it again? Can a 12 year old kid catch this fish next week (thank you for releasing, Donnie!)?
I still say each one of us needs to be better stewards of the river and worry more about the big picture as it relates to the health of the activity we love. And for the record, you can teach old dogs new tricks. I’ve spent the last several years grooming Big Z on his fishing reports. The old boy is coming along nicely. But remember what his business is; Of course Brand Z is a better lure than Brand S.
Back to my smallies. I’ve included a growth chart for the estimated life-span of smallies. They don’t get big over night.
year inches
1 4.6
2 7
3 9
4 10.7
5 12.6
6 14.6
7 15.9
8 16.5
9 16.9
10 17-19
11 17-20
12 18-21
Comment by Sam Rorrer — April 9, 2012 @ 5:25 am