Taylor’s column: Sunday hunting ban is discrimination
It’s 61 degrees out there on this unseasonably warm December day.
I’m busy working around the house, and plan to get a bike ride in. I probably wouldn’t go hunting today even if I could, but it sure would be nice to have the choice.
As I wrote in my Roanoke Times column today, there is no logical, rational way to justify Virginia’s ban on Sunday hunting. Supporters of the ban try to make those arguments, but the bottom line it is an emotional issue based in misunderstanding and misperception — just like other types of discrimination.
Virginia’s legislators are getting this, which is why the Senate strongly passed a Sunday hunting bill this past winter. There are a few opponents in Richmond, and a small minority, by virtue of their seats on a House committee, managed to kill that bill. Several of those legislators claim to support hunter rights. Frankly, this is mind-boggling.
Recruiting and retention are two massive challenges facing hunting. Allowing Sunday hunting isn’t a silver bullet, to be sure. But in today’s highly scheduled society, when many working-aged hunters — and their kids — are bombarded with other obligations on Saturdays, allowing hunters the OPTION of hunting on Sunday couldn’t hurt. Why should a kid like my little hunting buddy Beck Hansen (above) not get a chance to enjoy hunting just because he also enjoys soccer?
Again, it’s not like this is uncharted territory. Hunting on Sundays is legal in 43 states, where it is a NON-ISSUE. I enjoy other types of outdoors recreation, as do many of my friends. I assure those who like to bike, bird, paddle, etc. would notice LITTLE TO NO difference in their chosen outdoors endeavors.
Also mind-boggling is the fact that some hunters support the Sunday hunting ban. If you are a hunter and support the ban, you are admitting that you are a second-class citizen who is incapable of making choices and deserving of being treated differently from all other Virginians. (UPDATE: OK, as a few comments pointed out below, this clearly did not come out right and I apologize for that. I am leaving the original sentence to provide context for the comments that took exception to this sentence. As I wrote in a comment below, I am in NO WAY calling hunters who support the Sunday hunting ban second class citizens. I was trying to say that the ban treats ALL HUNTERS as second class citizens by treating us differently than other citizens. We are not are not second class citizens and we are ALL capable of making our OWN decisions. I support the right of hunters to hunt on Sundays if they CHOOSE to. If the Sunday hunting ban is overturned, hunters who don’t want to hunt on Sunday, don’t have to hunt on Sunday. It’s their choice. That said, why would a hunter be against another hunter having a choice? That’s what I don’t get. END UPDATE.)
This subject always brings lots of comments, and I invite them all.
Hunters, speak your minds. Maybe some of those legislators who still don’t get this (or who do get it, but whose votes are shaped by motives other than fairness and common sense) will actually read this thread. OK, that’s doubtful, but it doesn’t hurt to dream.
I also, as always, invite those who support the Sunday hunting ban to chime in. I like a good debate, though the best are those where it’s not so obvious what the right answer is.
December 9, 2012 - 1:41 PM
Sunday hunting is way overdue in our state, as you said, it is allowed in 43 other states with no problems.
There are no good excuses for not allowing it.
We should at least be allowed to hunt on Sunday on our own land, and frankly it should be state wide, public land as well, but I would support private land only, until the opponents figure out the sky didn’t fall on them!
The issue of Sunday hunting is one of a religious nature. What else could it be? When the founders of our great nation got together to make the laws of the land they used the Bible as a means to determine right from wrong. Generations later we have gotten away from the values that help form our country and make it what it is today. Laws are being ammended or done away with all together that forbid things such as abortion and same sex marriage. Actions that would make our God fearing forefathers turn over in their grave. The Sunday hunting ban is just another one of those laws that will soon go by the wayside because of what our society has become.
I am a dedicated hunter and have been for thirty years spending many hours in the woods each year. I am also a busy husband and father who works a full time job. I have always been able to find time to hunt without hunting on Sunday. And Mark on a personal note: How can you say that hunters who support the ban are second class citizens and are incapable of making decisions? That is the most absurd thing I have ever read. I feel I have made some good decisions in my life and I certainly don’t feel like a second class citizen because I don’t want to hear shots ringing out on the Lord’s day!
Mark,
I appreciate your bringing up this topic and I too hope the ban is lifted soon. However, I do take offense to your comment, “If you are a hunter and support the ban, you are admitting that you are a second-class citizen who is incapable of making choices and deserving of being treated differently from all other Virginians.” That’s a jab that’s uncalled for. Personally, I spend almost every Sunday morning of the year in a church that believes the Bible is 100% the inerrant word of God and that the blood of Jesus and nothing we do ourselves is the only pathway to heaven. That’s about as conservative as it gets from a Christian standpoint. As I mentioned above I am FOR overturning the ban so I’m on the same team. But, calling someone second class and incapable is classless in itself. If someone chooses to support the ban for whatever reason, be it religious, recreation, noise, danger, trespassing, etc., they should be allowed to without having to provide you or anyone else an explanation. Although, I haven’t had a finger on the pulse of the situation like you or others have it seems like VA Farm Bureau had as much to do with the keeping up the ban as anyone did. I disagree with their political involvement and hope better reasoning will come to those who have voted for the ban in the past. But even those folks have a right to their opinion and they are probably not incapable or second class as you suggest. Hurling insults doesn’t help the cause of hunters or those in favor of lifting the ban a bit. The last thing you want to do is start sounding like Dan Casey.
Now we may be getting somewhere on the issue.
Stir the pot/emotions and let the cards fall where they may. Everyone call it like you see it!
Big deer Sunday @ 8:00 a.m. will feed me for 6 months!
I would like THE ROANOKE TIMES–or someone with more research prowess than I, to publish a side by side comparison to the legislators that voted in favor of Sunday liquor sales, and against Sunday Hunting. I think we will find some hypocrites in the bunch. The bottom line is the almighty dollar, if Sunday hunting could bring more $$$ to the coffers like Sunday liquor sales, we would all be heading out to the stand this afternoon.
bird_dog07 you nailed it! This implying an inferiority in someone who doesn’t agree with you on one particular point may very well be the writer showing his own inferiority feelings. Hopefully it’s a one time thing. Taylor’s too good for that garbage.
I should have phrased that “second class” comment better, and I sincerely apologize for that. In fact I am going to edit my post to better reflect (I hope) what I am trying to say there.
I absolutely am not calling hunters who support the ban second class citizens. What I mean is that the ban treats hunters like second class citizens, which we are not, whether we are for hunting on Sundays or not. We don’t have a choice, and that is not fair.
I fully support the right of hunters to make their OWN choice. Jeff and BirdDog, I applaud you for making the choices you do. If and when the ban is overturned you will be able to continue to make those choices. Right now, you don’t have a choice.
I just want to say one thing! As crazy warm as it is right now, and late in the season! No one will probably believe me, but I walked out of church this morning and right next to the church is a little woodlot. I caught the glimpse of a deer, and noticed quickly it was a doe! I walked slowly closer to her, now about 25 yards, when I noticed a bigger bodied deer right on her tail, nose down! Now mind you its 60 plus degrees at 1 30 pm..( had a meeting after service)…and one of the biggest 8 points I have ever seen was right in tow of this doe!! When all of a sudden, the buck reared back and bred the doe, 30 yards in front of me! They never knew I was there!!! I have been hunting for over 20 years now and have NEVER seen that!!! It just goes to show, sundays, hot days, cold days, middle of the days! If its on….its on!!! I am a deacon at my church, and youth director! And I wish there was Sunday hunting! Just sayin……
Mark – been reading your blog for years, but first time poster. This is a difficult argument and one can see both sides. However I fall on the side supporting the ban. I understand those wanting the right to hunt on Sunday’s and all the reasons behind it – I get it. However, for those of us who support the ban, we have reasons that aren’t discriminatory, it is simply our viewpoint, our feelings.
If the ban were to be lifted, and though we can still choose not to hunt, to say we are unaffected is wrong. I took up hunting about five years ago at age 45. One of the reasons I enjoy so much it is that there is something spititual about it that is not like any other sport. I don’t have the space here to fully express myself, but lifting the Sunday ban would impact the way I view the sport and how I would feel towards the sport. I am sure my Christian faith has an affect on my viewpoint, but I don’t force that viewpoint upon anyone but neither do I apologize for it. Lifting the ban would do something to my view of hunting in a way that is difficult to describe.
Mark – Sunday hunting is not discriminatory – it is not a right, it is a determination by the people in a democractic society. Have an up or down vote in the booth – I won’t be jumping off the bridge if the ban is voted down. In fact, the majority viewpoint should rule, regardless of what I may think. Some may think my arguments weak, some might agree with them. Fine – I am but one man with one vote. However, I have a viewpoint and I would vote a certain way. What I don’t get is how dogmatic we seem to get on both sides of this issue.
Your “second class” citizen paragraph is quite unlike you from what I have read over the years. Your good friend Freddy McGuire has voiced his opposition to Sunday Hunting on his forum in Va Turkey. I don’t know Freddy personnally, but he seems to be one of the most respected hunters in our state, and I would think he would be offended the way you have described him or anyone else that supports the Sunday ban.
Well I wanted to throw my two cents worth on this. They way I look at it, name one other thing you can’t do in Sundays that you can’t do any other day in the state of VA? (besides Chick-Fil-A)So ask yourself that. As a sportsman, christian and hard working tax payer of VA, I think it should be up to the person to decide if he or she wants to hunt. Everyone has a choice to do what the want on Sunday. I work full time and also have a side job to help afford some of the things I need to hunt. So most weeks I only get one day a week to hunt. That is Saturday’s. I am like the majority of hunters in VA. We buy licences that cost a lot more than fishing licences and they get to fish on Sundays. What if they made it illegal to fish on Sundays, or golf, or ride a boat on the lake on Sundays? Most people don’t look at it as if they can’t do their favorite hobby on Sundays, esp after paying $82 to buy a licences to do their favorite hobby. Let say you have to by licences to be able to golf, but you can golf everyday but Saturday for but for only 3 months of June – August? I know I would hate it as I am an avid golfer also.
Also if you look at it, its only adding four Sundays in October for bow season. (I don’t think they could hear me shoot to disturb church services). But depending on the counties where people hunt, I know in the Roanoke Valley it would be 7 days of muzzelloader season and rifle season.
So that’s only 12 days it would add to a season that we pay for anyway. As far as for as the dog hunting counties, I do not think it would effect it that much as most of the ones I know that hunt in counties east of 29 would not hunt anyway. I use to hunt in one of those counties in a hunting club and the club said if it where legal they wouldn’t as a club. But any member would be able to “still” hunt.
Us hunters I would say put more money in the economy during hunting season than a lot of people can’t believe. I think it would draw more hunters male and female to hunt than people think. It would also give hunters to get some younger hunters in the woods to experience something that can give you memories for a life time as it has hunting with my dad has for me growing up. I can only think the more memories I would have got to have if there had been Sunday hunting when I was growing up. There is my two cents worth. I could have said a lot more and got more in depth on this subject but just wanted to give another way of looking at it to people.
” don’t want to hear shots ring out on the Lord’s day”
Jeff Roberts, which days in your week don’t belong to God? Maybe it’s just me, but IMO they ALL belong to the Man who’s counting them in the book of life for everyone of us. If you don’t care to hear shooting on Sunday, why doesn’t it offend you on any of the other days that are His? “This is the Day The Lord has Made”….”we should rejoice and be glad in it”…..
Does that song/hymn only apply on Sunday? Hmmm?
Just a few more holes shot in the religion argument….
Scott — Thanks for being a longtime reader, and I appreciate your finally taking a moment to post. I also really appreciate your efforts to try to explain the way you feel. I think you put it well when you mentioned that it is a spiritual thing for you. I have written many times over the years about how our reasons for hunting are so often intensely spiritual and personal. Again, there would be nothing forcing anyone to hunt on Sunday. Because it is such a personal decision I can’t know how it would impact you. I’d certainly like to think you’d find your time in the woods — on those days you personally choose to be out there — to be every bit as satisfying as it is now.
As for the notorious “second class” comment, you must have written your comment before my update was posted. But, yes, you are exactly right. It is quite unlike me, because it is not me. It was a poorly written sentence and I encourage you to read the clarification.
As for Freddy McGuire, they don’t come better. I am 100 percent in favor of Freddy and Virginia’s hunters — all of whom are first class citizens deserving of equal treatment — being given the respect they deserve by being allowed to make a choice about whether they hunt on Sunday or allow hunting on their land on Sunday.
I was raised by a pastor and he taught me to live for and through the Lord every day of my life not just on Sundays. Ive spent more than a few Sundays away from church fishing or going to sporting events like football and auto racing which by the way hold the majority of their events strictly on Sundays. Allowing hunting on Sundays isn’t going to hurt or change anything in life.
Last Saturday evening my seven year old daughter asked me if we could go hunting together tomorrow (Sunday) This was the first time she had ever asked, I was so happy and excited that she wanted to go that I forgot we couldn’t go because it was a Sunday. I then had to tell her that we would have to wait for the next Saturday that she wasn’t busy with dance or soccer because hunting wasn’t allowed on Sundays. Her reply was one that all dads know, why? I told her honestly honey I don’t know why, I guess there are just more non hunters than there are hunters and they think we shouldn’t hunt on Sundays. Needless to say she wasn’t thrilled and still didn’t understand why we couldn’t go the next day but I promised we would go the next chance we had.
Mark I really enjoy the blog, pictures and your articles keep up the good work. I was lucky and got to take my little girl hunting for the first time this Saturday Dec. 8th we didn’t see much a doe early then birds and squirrels the rest of the morning. While we were walking out of the woods she said thanks for taking her and hunting was fun even though we didn’t get a deer. I told her I had a great time too, what I didn’t tell her is that it was the best hunting trip I ever had. For most dads Sundays are the only day they can take their kids hunting, hopefully I will be able to post my first hero shot on the blog soon with her holding her first deer.
Thanks
Chris Gainesville Va.
A lot of good points already mentioned above… I just wanted to add one point to the “shots ringing out on the Lord’s day” comment; My son and I had a wonderful afternoon today (after church) shooting a whole box of clays and sighting in a .22 mag that I recently acquired and repaired. One box of 12 and one box of 20 guage rounds and numerous rounds out of the .22 echoed throughout the mountains. The perception of WWIII-like gunfire blazing and bullets whizzing everywhere because of Sunday hunting has really been played out. Do you have anything else?
Ricky — Apparently that buck was not aware that Sunday is a legally mandated “day of rest” for Virginia’s wildlife…
Chris — Thanks for your comment. I am so glad to hear that you and your daughter got out on Dec. 8. I know that’s a memory you both will cherish.
It hit home with me because this fall my daughters have been slammed with ballet practice — four days a week, including several hours on Saturdays — and we have struggled to find time to get out. I have a good friend who has a beautiful hunting cabin and in years past we have gone up and spent the night for a “hunt.” I put hunt in quotations because the hunting is just a little part of it. By spending the night they get to see that hunting is about so much more than just hunting. I was able to get them out for an evening sit, but no overnight yet. As you know, that’s better than nothing, but it is just not the same as an overnight trip to “hunt camp.”
I don’t know that my daughters will grow into lifelong hunters, but that’s my hope. Even if they don’t, their seeing what it is all about will pay dividends for hunting because my girls, as they grow older, will be able to be good ambassadors for hunting.
I will be waiting for that hero shot!
Lol Mark! Yeah he “musta” not got that one! I guess the reason I put that, was, because it was pretty cool to witness that, never seen it before…secondly, because somebody, maybe even you, said you probably wouldn’t have hunted today because of the warmth anyways! Well, seeing that today, still makes me a believer, that if you aren’t out there, you can’t kill’em! How many times have we as hunters said, its too warm for deer movement, its in the middle of the day, no way these deer are moving, and certainly not rutting! Well that was witnessed by me today to be FALSE! Lol….those 2 deer blew that theory out of the water!..it couldn’t be much warmer than this afternoon in December! It couldn’t be much later in the season..and it was 1:30 in the afternoon!! He was on that doe like it was 30 degrees, November 6th, on a frosty daybreak morning!! It was pretty amazing!!
and to the last comment…I would like to thankyou for your comment about shooting on Sunday! Why is hearing shots on Sunday, anymore different than hearing shots from target practice! I have many many times, target practiced, or sighted guns in, or checking my gun from a “missed” shot the day before, on sundays! Doesn’t change anything!
Just my 2cents!
Oh boy, to keep it short…. I spend my Sunday mornings and evenings, and Wednesday evenings in church, when work allows it. I would love to be able to come home, have a nice family lunch, then take my boys (my lil girl isn’t old enough yet) out for an evening hunt. LIFT THE BAN!
Religion aspect aside, to me it is truly about owner’s rights. What other outdoor activity is banned or outlawed on privately owned property on Sunday? We all have more than enough examples of governments on all levels telling us what we can and cannot do with our own property. Virginia needs to start with the small step of dropping the ban on privately owned land and then one day the ban on public land may follow. As unfair as that would be to those not fortunate enough to have hunting access on private land, if hunters and sportsman push for both initially I’m sure we will end up with zero progress on this issue for another year.
The ban is religious based, ridiculous and unsupportable in any logical argument. It is time Virginia entered the 21st century and those religion pushers backed off. It used to be illegal to trout fish in Highland County before noon, for goodness sake. You can legislate many things, but not religion…this is, after all, the United States of America!
Sorry, that fishing ban was only on Sunday in Highland.
i know the bible pretty well and i cant find the “no sunday hunting ban”in it so i dont think god is for the ban.
The ban is outdated and needs to go, but until the state can see $$$ coming from it I think it will be a long while before it is lifted.
After agonizing over this every year and finally agreeing the ban should be lifted, I now realize that legislatively is not going to accomplish it. For whatever reasons that none of us will ever figure out, politicians are born spineless and will not take a stand and as Mark pointed out, will let this thing die quietly in committee without having any direct consequence to an individual. And, it is hardly an issue that is going to energize the electorate to make changes either.
The way to get this resolved is today’s way. Legally. Someone has to be arrested for hunting on Sunday and given a ticket. Then they have to be convicted. Then they have to appeal their conviction where eventually it will be overturned like any other blue law as a conflict between church and state. The state cannot “keep holy the sabbath” by law, that it is up to each of us to do on our won, as commanded to Moses.
Some group that supports this could help by bankrolling the legal expenses.
BTW, not that this is the faith that I follow, but 7th day adventists holy day is SATURDAY. By taking away Sunday hunting, thr state in imposing on their religious beliefs.
Thanks Mark.
Mark; Have enjoyed your columns over the years. Agree with your position on the Sunday hunting issue and feel comfortable that the ban will be lifted soon. Thought I would make my feelings known to my representatives in Richmond as well as the members of the committee that killed the issue. Could you post the committee name and members names of that committee so those of us that would like to contact those folks would have a starting point. Thanks again for the column.
I just wanted to add to Bills comment, Does God Care? Out of all the things men could be doing, something as constructive and positive as Hunting I would hope would be something the Lord above would look down and be happy about. I don’t particularly like to talk Religion, but this particular subject has been mixed with a religious argument since its inception. Are Seventh Day Adventist allowed to hunt? Has anyone ever been concerned about how a Seventh Day Adventist felt about bringing thier children to soccer matches, plays, shopping for school items, etc? I bring this up to further what one gentleman stated above. Let’s move on from the “religious argument”. It holds no ground unless those that aregue against it also argue the same against all other things that take place on Sunday. I believe we all need to be more involved to help those few understand there is great gain in lifting the ban. Getting young hunters involved is my biggest hope. Imagine going to “Deer Camp” for the weekend instead of Saturday! Imagine me actually being able to use my vacation for my wife and son instead of using it to keep family traditions alive, (I say this in jest, but my Wife loves the fact that I am a dye in the wool hunter!) Seriously though, how about the guys and gals that are not fortunate in the amount of vacation time they have available? They pay $100.00+ a year to have the ability to hunt and get 6-8 days to do it? How many of those days are “quality days”? Meaning, right weather, low winds, etc. On the other note, how many people out there will support paying to use National Forest Lands? Some may know that I hunt Natinal Forest Lands exclusively. I have seen tremendous amounts of hikers in the areas I hunt, all have seemed very freindly, and not one person has ever frowned at me because I was dressed in Hunting apparel. But would these people pick up the tab that the state loses by the continuing lack of license sales? All in all it is a big, but SIMPLE argument. Lift the ban and see what happens, God knows we can always re-institute the ban if lifting it doesn’t work.
Fantastic article. I’ve hunted on Sunday in Colorado, Illinois, and Wyoming and all of those doomsday scenarios that the proponents of this ban claim will take place are simply false. I just hope we are one year closer to ending the insanity…
Mike — If and when this legislation comes up I plan to keep readers apprised of the committee members.
Of course it’s not too early for those with strong feelings about this topic to contact their legislators right now — and that goes for those of you who support the ban, too, of course.
Furthermore, if you are a member of the Virginia Farm Bureau — which really does a lot of good for rural landowners, I must add — let that group’s leadership know how you feel. If you are pro Sunday hunting, help the leadership understand that giving landowners the choice to hunt and allow hunting on Sundays is a positive and not a negative.
Jim — You and a couple others have brought up the $$$ issue. Touting the potential economic impact of lifting the ban was a big part of the strategy of the formal groups pushing last winter’s legislation. Talking dollars is a tricky proposition, especially when there is that word “potential.”
“Potential” revenue is better than nothing. But donated money from special interest groups is better than potential, you know what I mean?
Revenue should be part of the discussion, particularly when it comes to the long-term solvency of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries. When Baby Boomers work their way through the system — a day that is rapidly approaching — license sales are going to plummet unless something changes. As license sales plummet, federal matching funds based on hunter and angler numbers will plummet. The budget impacts for DGIF will be devastating. DGIF board members finally figured this out which is why they are on board with lifting the ban. Again, allowing Sunday hunting is not a silver bullet, but it can’t hurt with recruiting.
All of this said, as soon as you focus too much on the revenue impact, you get people saying, “It’s all about the money!” Some folks find that distasteful. Just look back at comments on blog posts on this subject this past winter.
So I think the focus should be on the issue of fairness. Under the ban, hunters are treated differently from all other Virginia citizens. We are treated as, and here’s that phrase again, second-class citizens who are incapable of making our own choices about what recreational pursuits we should be able to enjoy on one day a week, and what legal, biologically sound recreational pursuits and property management techniques landowners should be able to allow on our their property.
At its core, the ban on Sunday hunting is no different from a ban on using tractors or chainsaws or fishing on Sundays. If supporters of lifting the ban can get our legislators (and other non-hunting citizens) to understand that, hunters will finally get to enjoy equal treatment.
Clint — Interestingly, I know at least one hunter who supports the ban on Sunday hunting, who hunts on Sundays when he travels to states where it is allowed. Maybe he can weigh in and let us know what makes Virginia different.
Want to join in on the effort to give Virginians the freedom and liberty to choose? You can go here to join the thousands in support.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/vasundayhunting4all/
Mark,
I think you hit the nail on the head. All other recreational activity should also be banned on Sunday if Hunting is going to be singled out. No camping, no hiking, no lawn mowing, no golf, whatever the particular recreation is.
See how long it would last then.
Guessing less than 2 weeks……
Heck fire Mark, I was not upset over the second-class citizen remark. I’ve known for years that I was undeniably second class. There ain’t anything wrong with accepting who you are. It is refreshing.
Someone out there is inhibiting me from hunting on Sundays in VA. I can do most everything on Sunday – fish, go to church, attend sporting events, picnic, howl at the moon, drink, smoke, hike, pick my nose, camp, dig at my butt, enjoy the family, rest, play croquet, etc., BUT I can’t hunt, and the thwarting is getting old!
Another great article Mark and right on the money as usual. Keeping Sunday hunting illegal is most certainly discriminatory, it absolutely needs to be changed! We are a country that harbors people of many faiths, not just Christian. The sabbath for other falls on different days than Sunday, why don’t we make those days off limits to hunting as well? Put the decision back in the hands of the hunters! If you don’t feel right about hunting on Sunday, don’t hunt…don’t tell me that I can’t have the choice though.
Mark…..as always, thanks for giving both sides of the debate a voice. It puzzles me that we continue to read articles that call for lifting Virginia’s “ban” on Sunday hunting? Virginia, by regulation, permits hunting every Sunday and statewide……so is there truly a Sunday hunting “ban”? Perhaps, if we became more familiar with the law…..we’d improve our argument by asking that restrictions that only apply to Sundays be eased? The fact is that every wild game and bird species can be legally hunted and killed on Sundays in Virginia, with the exception of migratory birds. The migratory bird exclusion is federally mandated.
Mark, I’d be happy to send a list of lawful Virginia Sunday hunting, if you’d be gracious enough to post it on your blog. Virginia’s Sunday hunting regulations weren’t adopted to provide a “day of rest”. They were adopted to generally remove the conventional hunter, (gun hunter) while providing exclusivity for fox chasing. Virginia permits increases in Sunday hunting access nearly every year…..and this happens because the hound lobby understands the law.
Stephen — I apologize for offending you by calling you a first-class citizen!
. There are exceptions to every rule!
Tony — I get what you’re saying, which you’ve been saying for a while. I welcome you to post additional details to explain your argument.
Well I’ll be dogged. In this case, I’ll be foxed. So we can chase (hunt) foxes on Sundays? Many thanks Tony R.
We should be able to hunt when we want to as long as the season is open. If we can’t hunt on Sundays, then we should not be able to do anything else on Sundays other than go to church. No hunting…..then no hiking, shopping, fishing, movies, etc……
Mark, I thought your reference of referring to hunters being treated as “second class citizens” was spot on. Those who took offense didn’t pick up on your intent. Our legislators are treating hunters as 2nd class by using dictatorial mandate that we can’t participate, even on our own property, in an activity that is legal and safe the other 6 days of the week. If that is 2nd class treatment I don’t know what is.
The House Republican Leadership needs to be held accountable for killing the freedom and liberty to choose year after year. Speaker Howell (R – Fredericksburg Area), Delegate and AG Comm. Chair Sherwood (R – Winchester Area) & Delegate and AG Sucomm. Chair Ware (R – Powhatan Area) out to be held accountable for opposing increased personal freedom, property owner’s rights, smaller government and fighting to restrict access to the woods for hunters.
The Republicans in the House of Delegates are no friend to the Virginia hunter.
Matt — That some readers took great offense when they thought I was calling them second-class citizens is telling. No one wants to be told they are not worthy of fair and equal treatment, yet that’s what the ban does to all hunters.
They took offense when they took your comments out of context, which you clarified your intent.
The real question should be, “Why aren’t they taking offense with the House Republican Leadership who HAS decided they are 2nd class citizens of no import?”
Speaker Howell and the House Republican Leadership needs to hear from every Virginia hunter that they should further the rights of Virginia’s property owners.
We can email them here: delwhowell@house.virginia.gov; DelKCox@house.virginia.gov; DelBSherwood@house.virginia.gov; DelLWare@house.virginia.gov
The 2013 General Assembly is approaching and Sunday hunting bills and the majority of hunters that support SH aren’t going away likes years past. We will continue to push every year now until freedom and liberty triumph.
Stephen….interesting response. Sounds like you support Sunday hunting so long as it doesn’t remove exclusivity?
Read a little further into Virginia’s hunting regulations and you’ll see that every species offers Sunday hunting access…..again, with the exception of migratory birds.
Mark- I am simply stating that the special interest $$$ that drives the legislators decision to keep letting it die in committee is what drives this. I personally do not think that allowing sunday hunting will solve all of the states financial woes, I simply think that the lobby money greatly outweighs most common sense decisions in Richmond and if by some strange circumstance our great and knowledgeable legislators, and I use that term very, very loosely, see a way to bring in revenue with sunday hunting they would. I agree that all of them in Richmond lack a spine and can be equated to slithering snakes in my opinion. The only person we ever had in Richmond that had our interests in mind was Vic Thomas, and he was one of a kind!
From what I have been able to tell the opposition to Sunday hunting is primarily based on two factors.
1) Non hunters do not feel they will be safe
2) Christians do not believe you should be hunting on Sunday.
I can understand both arguments however I do not feel that they are fair. Where were all of the safety advocates when the sate allowed selling alcohol on Sundays? I do not even remember this being a topic of discussion. Do these people realize that they should be much more afraid of driving on the road than hiking though the woods with hunters? The odds of being hit and killed by a drunk driver are way higher than being involved in a hunting accident.
As for religious concerns, I fully respect someone who does not want to hunt on Sunday because they feel you shouldn’t. However I ask every individual that is for the ban for religious reasons to seriously consider the following question. Would you be in favor of adding Saturday to the ban since Friday at sundown to Saturday evening is the Sabbath of those practicing Judaism?
If the argument to lift the ban is based on giving the hunter a choice on when he wants to hunt, let’s also add the following choices that I would like to make but can’t:
– let’s push bow season back to September 1st. Right now, I don’t have a choice, I have to wait until October.
– let’s lift the ban on Bedford County not allowing firearm hunting for two weeks in the late season. Why don’t I have a choice to hunt when I want to?
– Why can’t I use a weapon of choice during the entire hunting season? Or why can’t I carry a shotgun and a rifle in the woods to hunt both turkey and deer as I please?
– Why in Pittsylvania county am I limited to only shooting bucks on certain days? What can’t I make a choice on what I would like to shoot when I hunt?
I’m not trying to be a smart alec, just pointing out we are already limited in choices concerning hunting, as we are in all areas of life and society. Where do we draw the line in assuring the choices we should have? We are never totally free, and that is probably a good thing. Again, I understand the concerns of Sundays hunters, I get it. But there is merit to both sides of this debate.
@Ricky – keep in mind what happens to warm air – it rises, carrying your scent with it. Warm weather is great for hunting for that reason. Cold air falls to the ground and any wind will carry your stank right up them flare holes.
In April, Beyoncé wrote an open letter to first lady Michelle Obama, and critics who got hold of it questioned her grasp on grammar, including the Rickey Smiley Morning Show.
“Beyoncé gonna be working the damn streets in a minute if she doesn’t get her English right,” said co-host Gary Wit Da Tea.
Scott- Are those laws of which you speak not put in place by the VDGIF for wildlife management purposes? If I am not incorrect, I would say that these laws are put in place in order to maintain healthy populations of game animals from year to year and well into the future. It is my belief that these laws are necessary to keep our sport alive.
There is a reason for every (and I realize this can be looked at pretty loosely) law that is in place. You can’t choose to shoplift. You can’t choose to distribute illegal drugs, etc.
What sets the Sunday Hunting ban apart from these laws is exactly what Mark says in his article: There is NO REASON for the ban to still be in place, and we are continuously disproving any “reason” that is brought up as a counterargument.
Hunting Ban held up by GOP budget concerns.
http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/11/29/hunting-bill-held-gop-budget-concerns
which is more important to your children’s future taking them to church on Sunday or taking them hunting?
You beat me to it, RJSteiner. Those regulations are all set by DGIF with the intent of responsibly managing the deer population.
But, Scott, I applaud you for questioning those regulations. I hope you brought up your concerns earlier this year when the DGIF invited input on game regulations as it works toward developing potential changes to hunting regulations. I can tell you from 15 years of covering the DGIF that the agency gives fair consideration to citizen suggestions. Youth hunting days? Public input helped start them. The January turkey season? Citizen input. Expanding the early western muzzleloader season back to two weeks? Citizen input. Removing the one-buck rule during thatearly muzzleloader season west of the Blue Ridge? Citizen input. I could go on.
They all illustrate a common theme: If regulations-related suggestions make sense, from a biological and game management standpoint, they often get proposed. And the board often approves those suggestions. (You know what, until someone can talk me into a different position I personally think that any county that has an earn-a-buck rule (Bedford, Roanoke, etc.) should have a four-week firearms season. Why Franklin County and not those two counties? I also think that every county with an earn-a-buck reg should have a two-deer-per day regulation. Again, Franklin County has it. Bedford County has it. But not Roanoke? Why?)
But I digress…DGIF biologists have said that allowing hunting on Sunday will have no detrimental biological impact on game populations.
I respect the opinions of hunters who chose to not hunt on Sunday. I especially applaud those who are forthright about their reasons.
Amatuer — That link is for a story on a federal sportsman’s bill and has nothing to do with Virginia’s Sunday hunting ban.
Scott Werthman…..I believe you can legally carry a shotgun and rifle at the same time…..provided both are legal in the county you’re hunting. I’ve done this exact thing for years. I did so last week, and I’ll do so this week.
Thanks Mark….and yes I’ve posted for years that it’s lawful to hunt on Sundays in VA, unfortunately the thought process hasn’r caught on. It’s tough to overcome hunter’s opinions on Sunday hunting when they read in the hunting regulation booklet written in red type that there is no Sunday hunting. But, few hunters will look any further into the regulations than the regulation booklet, eventhough it’s states that it’s just for general information. In fact, it’s states that specific laws are found in the Code of Virginia.
The code that restricts hunting on Sundays is 29.1-521:
A. The following is unlawful:
1. To hunt or kill any wild bird or wild animal, including any nuisance species, with a gun, firearm or other weapon on Sunday, which is hereby declared a day of rest for all species of wild bird and animal life.
This is the code that needs to be challenged in order to be changed. You challenge a code by identifying exceptions. There are lawful exceptions to this code on every Sunday and statewide. There are lawful exceptions that allow every game and bird species to be hunted and killed on Sundays.
If hunters focus on the exceptions and focus on this as property rights issue…..they’ll empower their argument tremendously.
Mark…..the State doesn’t “ban” your little buddy, Beck Hanson from hunting on Sundays……it does dictate how he can go about the hunt.
The interest of special hunting groups has sculpted VA’s Sunday hunting regulations. Take a look at last year’s legislation…..and ask yourself what group did more to fight against Sunday hunting. It was a hunting group…..that lobbies the DGIF nearly every year for more Sunday hunting access. Look at another piece of legislation that passed. Hunters were given right’s of access to unowned land, while landowners were restricted from access ot owned land.
This isn’t nearly as much a for and against argument, as it is I’m for what the kind of Sunday hunting I like, and I’ll fight you against the type of Sunday hunting you like.
Though for some of us, or maybe just me (and I did not read all the comments above, so if a repeat, forgive), Sunday is great for me, due to, I like to hike up in the mountains, and I can’t during hunting season, except on Sundays. I work during the week, and of course Sunday mornings, so Sunday afternoon, this time of the year, I get out and commune with our beautiful mountains. If all were allowed to hunt on Sundays, I would be stuck down in the valley rather than up there. So though I enjoy hunting and believe it is our God given right, no hunting on Sundays works for me.
Fr Richard, Your point is, what I believe, the most compelling argument to keep the ban in place. Non-hunters should get to enjoy nature, too.
I am curious about what you consider “hunting season”? And what mountains are you talking about?
As for Mark’s comment that was taken out of context by many, I’ve been called much worse than a second-class citizen! Whenever you believe in something that is either unpopular or you are in the minority of thought, you had better be thick-skinned. Learned that lesson years ago (didn’t I Mark). When the Sunday hunting ban is lifted, which is inevitable, I will choose not to participate – out of respect for my 99-year-old Christian father who perhaps is the oldest active deer hunter in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Sure, I’ve hunted on Sundays in other states and many of you will be quick to point out I’m a hypocrite. Go ahead – take your jab!
As for the comments about the Sunday hunting ban interferring with student’s sports schedules, no one in this world believes in introducing kids to the great outdoors more than me, but the word “choice” is a part of that referenced equation. My own grandson, one of the best young deer hunters I know, chose wrestling as a high school sport this year; intense practice and travel schedules have greatly interferred with his time in the woods. And whenever I’m headed out hunting and he is on the road at a wrestling match, I remind him such was his decision!
And in regards to the loss of state revenue, due to the fact that the Sunday hunting ban keeps non-resident hunters out of the Commonwealth of Virginia, let’s put a sales tax on deer corn to raise revenue for our underfunded state fish and game agency because baiting will surely be the next issue on the agenda. Other than disease and ethics, what’s wrong with piling up corn and apples? After all, our old hunting traditions are keeping Virginians in the dark ages.
Best of luck on “your” Sunday hunting in Virginia!
Fr Richard, that’s a reasonable objection until you consider the facts. VA licenses about 225,000 hunters…..but there are about 8,000,000 firearms residing in the homes of 2,000,000 gun owning Virginians. While hunting may be restricted on Sundays, recreational shooting see’s essentially no restrictions. So are you really safer on Sunday, or do you just feel safer?
Great comment, Mike. You will choose to not hunt in Virginia. Just like you choose to hunt when you travel. Nothing hypocritical about it. Your choice.
As for your grandson, he did make a choice. But what would it hurt if he had the option of choosing both wrestling and hunting?
And the deer corn tax — now THAT’s an interesting idea!
Why is it “hikers”, which I am one of those when there is no hunting season open, feel the need to “hike” on Sundays during the 6 or so weeks out of the year when hunting is open? They have a right, but they also have 40 Sundays out of the year to enjoy Hiking. Hikers and those whom do NOT hunt have many places available to them for their activites that Hunting is not allowed. Should the state set aside land for HUNTERS ONLY? We could pick this to death, but drop the ban, open up the woods for 6 sundays in the fall and 6 sundays in the spring, keep the same harvest limits and watch what happens…………. nothing……..just the average hunter being able to enjoy themselves another day on the weekend and possibly harvest a particular buck that he has been watching for 3 years through his trail cameras that evaded him everyday of this past season until showing up on Sunday after Rifle season went out in front of one of my stands……..
Tony R – I’m was pretty sure that a hunter could not take both a shotgun and a rifle into the woods at the same time. Can anyone else shed some light on this?
If anybody is hiking, riding a bike, looking for birds to photograph, riding a horse or sniffing acorns on my property any day of the week I’m at a minimum going to ask them what the heck they are doing on my property, they don’t belong there.
Scott, A friend of mine used the same practice of carrying a rifle and a shotgun, I told him it was against the law but he asked me to prove it. I couldn’t find anything so I called and talked to the local game wardens office and they said as long “as you are following the local ordinances with the type of firearms you can carry more than one.” I was shocked too, I think somebody once told me decades ago that it was illegal and I took it a gospel.
Needless to say I took a slug gun and a shotgun into a stand I had never been in before last Saturday because I didn’t know exactly what terrain I was getting into. Rifles are not allowed in that county.
Scott Werthman….I feel like I know the regulations pretty well. I’ve carried a rifle and a shotgun, to do exactly what you describe, hunt both deer and turkeys. I’m confident that it’s not unlawful to do this. I’ve done the same when turkey season is not in…..I’ll carry a rifle and a shotgun loaded with buckshot. If it were unlawful, I believe you’d see language prohibiting a shotgun/rifle combination gun.
In fact, it’s lawful to carry archery equipment and a muzzle loader when the two seasons overlap. I suspect it’d be lawful to carry archery equipment and a breach loaded firearm during general firearms season?
As long as both weapons are legal at the location….and the appropriate seasons are in…..I don’t see anyway you can be in violation? Kind of like carrying a long gun and a sidearm…..not a violation.
Well, this is an interesting diversion, isn’t it?
I’m actually looking this up right now but my instinct is that it is lawful to have both a shotgun and rifle provide both are legal during that season. An example would be carrying one of those over-and-under guns with one shotgun barrel and one rifle barrel. Those actually used to be quite popular for turkey hunting.
Now, I can assure you all that one may not carry a shotgun during a muzzleloader season because you’d rather not shoot a turkey with a muzzleloader. I speak from experience!
The truth is the day was never set over religious reasons. it was set over giving the animals a day to rest( living hoof, claw, fang, to mouth there is no rest merely existence). Religion is the common misconception about sunday hunting . Mark covered that last year and I was enlightened by that as well
Tony R, Matthew O and Mark – thanks for the info! I did a little reasearch and can’t find anything in the regs. You just made my late season hunting a little more fun. If the deer aren’t moving, which they often seem not to be this time of the year, doing a little squirrel or turkey hunting just might make the day. Thanks.
Glad to sorta help, Scott. I pored over the regs book and it sure seems like the shotgun/rifle combo is OK. Notice the very non-committal term “seems” in there. Covers me in case you get a ticket.
My preference in the late season is to hunt turkeys and have something along in case I see a deer. So what I might do is take my shotgun and my bow! I think that’s OK. Gosh, I hope so … Guess I better dig back into that regs books!
For what it’s worth, this last exchange says a lot about hunters. We might not agree on everything, but we look out for each other.
This has been a lively thread, obviously, and I appreciate every comment. The more we talk about this, the better understanding of the issue we all gain.
Thanks, all, for reading.
I totally agree with you, Mark… Believe it or not, I have kept my word (as posted on various hunting websites) where I am done hunting in Virginia. Here it is Dec 10th, and I still haven’t bought my license and I seriously doubt I will. I am sitting this season out in protest over SB464 (Sunday hunting) getting tabled back in Feb 2012.
If you and your readers recall, in Feb 2012 the “infamous 4″ (Ware, Edmunds, Wright, & Fariss, of the ACNR) killed SB464 even though it passed the Senate. AND… on that very same day (i.e. earlier that morning) my wife hit one of Richmond’s suburban does with her car and did $4500 worth of damage (Thank God my wife was okay and GEICO covered it)!!
But my point is, there are a lot (I mean A LOT) of suburban deer roaming around due to the ever growing suburban sprawl. Allowing hunters to hunt deer on Sundays has so many benefits, I am frankly tired of arguing the valid points in support of Sunday hunting, because it always falls on deaf ears. So… I decided to hit Virginia in the wallet and not purchase a hunting license. There are 43 other states who would gladly welcome me and my hard earned cash as a non-resident hunter!!!
Getting back to the topic at hand…SB464, the bill that incorporated all the other Sunday hunting bills in the Senate, passed the Senate last session on a 29-11 vote. It then passed to the House where it was assigned to the Committee on Agriculture, Chesapeake and Natural Resources. It then was assigned to the ACNRSub: Natural Resources, chaired by Del Ware of Powhatan. This SUB-committee of SEVEN men “voted” (4-3, I believe) to lay the bill on the table, effectively killing it. The key here is that the ENTIRE Senate (representing the ENTIRE Commonwealth) was able to vote on the Sunday hunting debate while, effectively, four “representatives” in a SUB-committee were the ONLY ones to vote on it in the House. What a travesty that a bill with such wide implications across the Commonwealth can be killed by four men representing a small portion of said Commonwealth. With the next session quickly approaching, it is time to start writing your representatives asking them to support Sunday hunting and to request the “leadership” in the House to PLEASE let this come to a vote of the ENTIRE body!
Don, admititedly I see it more important to take my boys to church on Sunday morning than to the blind or tree stand. But I also want to be able to take them afield right after church service is over if I choose to. And if the Sunday ban is lifted and me and my two boys decide to skip the occasional service to go hunting, I’m in hope that The Lord will forgive my “sinful” nature …….I understand that he’s in the forgiveness business. And just to help hedge my bets, we will pause a moment in prayer and thankfulness before we wander off into the dim light of a Sunday morning in the woods. After all, ” where there are two or more gathered in My name, I am there also”….have you ever read that anywhere?
Another hole shot in the religious anti -Sunday hunting position….
Sorry, Butch! I was typing while you were posting! Like minds!!??
Three weekends ago I took my 3 year old and 1 year old (on my back) hiking in the national forest on Sunday to “scout” for deer. It was a wonderful experience showing my 3 year old scrapes and rubs and seeing a few deer bound off. We looked for bears, threw rocks, picked up and brought home a bunch of acorns. It was one of those 40 degree crisp mid-November days, an absolute perfect day to be in a deer stand. If Sunday hunting was allowed, I might have been hunting, but I surely would not have been hiking and running around in the national forest with 2 young boys.
I had never wavered on my support of Sunday hunting until that day. I do not think there is any debate on whether Sunday hunting should be 100% allowed on private property, but I think there is definitely a debate if it should be allowed on the national forest and other public grounds. There are many other users of these lands and they should be able to enjoy the cool crisp weather of November without feeling that they are in danger.
I only hunt national forest and do not have access to any private ground to hunt and have mostly only saturdays to hunt, so this definitely affects me. I pondered this some more and thought of the time when my boys would be 12-18 years old and what my thoughts would be then on Sunday hunting. I envision backpacking/camping/hunting trips into wilderness areas and how if Sunday hunting was allowed, then it would make weekend trips more possible. I thought about my boys playing sports on Saturdays in the Fall and how Sunday hunting might allow them to enjoy that other “sport” of hunting. I know I missed many a saturday hunting when I was young for that same reason.
I still support Sunday hunting in all instances as I feel there is enough non-hunting areas for individuals to enjoy the outdoors on public grounds where hunting is not allowed, but I do understand the public land debate (maybe we could expand these non-hunting areas if the ban is repelled).
Thanks Butch Ammon I’m sitting this season out in protest over SB464 as well.
Also I hit one of Blacksburg’s urban does on So. Main near Wilco Hess Bojangles service station and Game Warden’s office area on my way home from work Saturday night. Luckily the damage was a cracked headlight and the 2nd of the 5 deer heard got up and scappered away up into the brush ajacent to the airport.
Even where I live theres an even bigger heard of deer 3 packs of 8 chowing down in an open field, and two neigbors yard each night when I return home from work Urban deer thrive well and unchecked.
Lastly Mark the way I see things any ban on a hunter is a ban on all hunters. This is a distiction that’s not lost on the anti-hunter.
You’re welcome Scott Werthman. One of my favorite times to hunt is after the early rush of deer season. I’ll set up before sunrise, and call a little. After an hour or so, I’ll ease around to look for scratchings, set up and call. I’ve had two successful hunts already this year. It’s tough to sit all day when you don’t have confidence that the deer will move…..but the turkey hunting aspect keeps my mind in the game. I’ve had deer successes too. Being able to carry a shotgun and a rifle increases opportunity……just like Sundays will.
RRSteiner….that’s the important message. Why did a bill that sailed through the Senate fail in the House? We should all focus on the opposition. The opposition represented hunting interest groups…..groups that already enjoy access to hunting on Sundays. These groups have strong lobby ties to the House NR sub-committee.
If we write about lifting a ban….we strengthen the argument against Sunday hunting. If we write, and ask that restrictions be eased related to Sunday hunting we strengthen the argument for Sunday hunting. When we write our legislators and ask that restrictions that only apply to Sundays be eased, we do the bulk of the heavy lifting right then,…..we force them to acknowledge that hunting on Sunday is lawful, and then we force them to defend why it wouldn’t be lawful in all hunting situations…..just like any other day.
The fact that hunting is, and has been legal on Sundays……coupled with the fact that recreational shooting is essentially unregulated on Sundays……makes VA’s Sunday hunting regulations difficult to defend by any lawmaker……because our laws neither rest our wildlife, nor do they remove risks of firearms accidents.
Church…..well VA ranks last in church attendence in all Southern states…..so the belt of the bible ain’t all that tight in the Old Dominion.
At the risk of inflaming those who see only one side of this issue, I’m going to offer a few comments from the other side of the state. First, conditions vary greatly from the western to the eastern side of Virginia. We have more population density and much less public land open to hunting. Inevitably that puts more pressure on private landowners and unfortunately trespass and illegal hunting is a real issue. That’s true on Monday-Saturday but Sunday provides a bit of a relief in that illegal hunters stand out and are more obvious. If someone has a freshly killed deer in the truck on Sunday, it’s an easy ticket so generally even the rogue hunters lay off Sundays in my area.
Other conditions are different as well. I think our deer season is a bit longer so that would mean more Sundays to deal with hunters than in the west.
A final comment from the debate in the General Assembly last year. Most members of the House and many Senators had polling done on the issue. Rural areas polled strongly AGAINST Sunday hunting while more urban areas were more favorable. The obvious conclusion is that those who will have to deal with Sunday hunting locally oppose it while those who wish to leave home and hearth unaffected while they hunt in the rural areas are more favorable. A more blunt way of putting it is that suburbanites are happy that their families and kids can safely walk around the neighborhood without dealing with hunters but don’t want rural citizens to have the same privilege on even one day a week.
Before replying with statistics about the safety of hunting, please know that I already understand that argument. I also know that hunter safety instructors and VDGIF recommend and advertise that EVERYONE should wear blaze orange in the hunting season, even those who are not hunting. Try telling your wife she needs a blaze orange vest to walk around your neighborhood and see how well that plays. (It probably is a good idea, given traffic/pedestrian fatalities but I would be interested in hearing how it goes over at your house.)
One final comment in this much too long post. In my area, hunting is a tradition that is under severe pressure. Many people who have moved in are not hunters and only barely tolerate hunting now. We already have requests to ban hunting locally and a push to expand hunting to Sundays is likely to add fuel to those who oppose all hunting. It will definitely cut down on the amount of land currently open to hunting for free as I know many landowners who will stop all “free” hunting and instead turn to leasing hunting rights with a no Sunday hunting provision in the lease. Since there is very little public land open for hunting, this will impact all hunting and lessen the option of where to hunt unless you belong to a hunt club or can pay lease fees yourself.
Thanks so much, Eastern Landowner, for your comment. It wasn’t too long. It captured your concerns and we all need to hear them to better understand that there are two sides to this.
We all tend to focus on issues as they pertain to our backyard. The conditions are absolutely different out your way, in two big ways: your firearms deer season is longer and there is dog hunting.
In Western Virginia we’re talking about five or six Sundays, out of 52, where firearms hunting is fairly busy. In your area, you’re talking about double that. So, 12 (at most) weekend days out of 104. And many of those days fall during the winter months, when only the hardiest souls (like hunters) are out there anyway.
One thing that we have in common is that we law-abiding hunters and landowners despise poachers and trespassers. If the rouges are laying off in your area now on Sundays (I would argue that they’re just laying low), they will lay low when Sunday hunting is allowed. Rogues are rogues. They don’t follow seasons. They don’t look at the calendar. The best defense against rogue hunters is having legal hunters out there on “citizen’s patrol.” If there is trespassing and poaching issue, it is a trespassing and poaching issue. It is not a Sunday hunting issue.
As for neighborhood safety, you’re right that some folks don’t find blaze orange fashionable. It is my experience that people who walk, hike, ride, bird, do that more than one day a week now, not just on Sundays. I would hate to think that there are people out there who enjoy the outdoors (but don’t hunt) who stay sequestered in their homes for two months (except Sundays) because of a fear of hunters. A fear that, we all know, is not needed.
Finally, the issue of landowners landowners stopping permissive access and charging leases. I don’t get that. But here’s the thing: It’s their land. They should have a choice how they manage it, within the law, of course. Most of those laws make sense. You cant have a landowner building a tire dump and burning tires. You don’t want them damming free-flowing, navigable waterways. But the Sunday hunting ban is just an arbitrary law that is not based in any kind of sound, sensible facts.
Whenever we look at a proposal, we can’t help but speculate about what COULD happen. Both pro and con sides are doing that here. The difference for the pro hunting crowd is that we have proof that backs up our speculation — 43 states that allow Sunday hunting. Virginia isn’t the guinea pig here. We are late to the party. Really, really late.
Eastern Landowner thanks for your comments. Oddly, our legislature had an opportunity to strengthen trespass laws last session, but apparently found the bill lacked enough importance to discuss it…..they decided that the appropriate thing was to “table” it without debate. Why? Responsible hunters are likely the best defense against trespass…..as per the DGIF.
Deer seasons in the western part of the state end the first Saturday in January…..just like the eastern seasons. In a handful of counties in northern VA, deer rifle season continues through mid-March. These areas are our highest in both population density and private land ownership. But, the extended season doesn’t seem to be an issue?
I’m unaware that polling was conducted by any legislators? Certainly, everyone wants to be able to go out in safety…..but can we truly insure safety by restricting hunting on Sunday, and liberating recreational shooting? Speaking only for myself, as an eastern landowner, I discharge my firearms seldom while hunting, but very frequently on Sundays when I’m not hunting.
Blaze orange requirements are a shame. People should be able to walk around safely in any clothing they choose.
If a landowner goes onto their property and hunts within the boundaries of that property……and another goes on their property and shoots recreationally…..how do the risks to their neighbors compare?
Sadly, hunters have taken the lives of others…..no excuses, and no defenses. Drunken drivers have taken the lives of thousands…..no excuses, and no defenses. Oddly, there was more opposition to expanding Sunday hunting than there was expanding rural ABC store hours on Sundays.
The state allows hunting access on Sundays to those that have no ownership interest in the property they hunt……but it prohibits a landowner from hunting access……baffles me completely.
Folks, the person who is directly responsible for the ban remaining in place is Del. Lee Ware. He is the chairman of the Agriculture, Chesapeake, and Natural Resources committee of the Virginia General Assembly. Through the Virginia Farm Bureau, The Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance (VHDA), and the HSUS, they keep the ban in place. He uses unsavory voting tactics, heavy-handed influence, and straight out untruths to justify keeping the ban in place. His favorite argument is that his constituents don’t want Sunday Hunting. Well, that’s fine. But what about the remaining hunters in the state who do, and have said so through more studies and polls than I care to count. Right now, the last number was that 72% wanted Sunday hunting in some fashion. There were only 10-15% that reported wanting no Sunday hunting. So what’s the problem? The problem is that Mr. Ware doesn’t care, plain and simple. And his committee is not being held accountable. One of the arguments that he and Kirby Burch (Lobby against Sunday Hunting Dog Alliance) use is that “Land owners do not want people on their land on Sunday..” How stupid is that statement? I mean really, doesn’t a land owner determine who can access their land and on what days anyway, no matter what day it is? Mr. Ware and Mr. Burch lobby and are lobbied to keep Sunday hunting in place because the dog club hierarchy wants to be able to go to church, watch NASCAR, and collect their dogs on Sunday without having to worry about you or me hunting that day…because what they are truly concerned with is being able to shoot the deer off of your land on Monday – Friday while you and I are at work. they do not want you to kill a single deer. If you don’t believe this, then why does Southampton and other counties NOT allow blackpowder season? Because they do not want you to kill a deer that they will kill during the general firearms/dog seasons. It’s quite simple. Mr. Ware and Mr. Burch are there to keep the ban in place. The sad thing is that there are hunters who believe that if Sunday Hunting is opened, deer dog hunting will get banned…which is absolutely wrong but they are being told this by the hierarchy of the deer clubs as well as the administration on the Speeddogs forums. Check out what I said, head to the Facebook Page for Legalize Virginia Sunday Hunting…and engage.
Mark, you can not carry a gun in any archery season, early or late!
Todd Barnes…..interesting comments. But, within Del. Ware’s district there isn’t a Sunday when hunting is prohibited. So can we say that Del. Ware opposes Sunday hunting…..or should we say that Del. Ware supports exclusive Sunday hunting?
I actually wrote Del. Ware last session, knowing that he wouldn’t support SB464, and asked that if he found he couldn’t support SB464, would he please find it appropriate to revise 29.1-521 so that it included language that would truly ban all hunting activity on Sunday, and for once give VA’s wildlife the “day of rest” that the law says they are entitled to. Of course, I received no response, nor was the code revised.
The two that you name don’t oppose Sunday hunting…..it’s become quite apparent that they strongly support exclusivity with regard to Sunday hunting access.
You want to see a legislative about-face…..watch the reaction when they are asked to legalize all hunting on Sunday…..or ban all hunting on Sunday. This will more effectively than any other measure, show the true colors of VA’s legislative Sunday hunting support and opposition.
I might be the person Mark is referring to in his post about knowing someone that is against Sunday hunting but does hunt on Sunday when I travel out of state.
Let me tell you why I’m against it here in Virginia…
Mark stated in his article… “At least 90 percent of hunting in Virginia takes place on private land, where a landowner can set his own rules about which days hunters can and can’t be there.”
That says it all for me… and why I am against it. I am very fortunate to have the privilege of hunting on the property of very generous landowners. Most all of them non-hunters. What rules are they going to set? I’ve heard from several of these landowners that if Sunday hunting is allowed they will totally stop all hunting on their property… not just saying no Sunday hunting, but no hunting… period. It is their property and their right to set the rules, so what do you say? What have we gained by allowing an extra day to hunt if we have no where to go?
For the purpose of full disclosure we do own a small farm so I could still hunt on Sunday if I chose to do so. However, many of my friends that rely on the landowners above would not be so lucky. I’m worried that as land is passed along we are going to head down the path of my friends in southern states… that have either stopped hunting or have to pay for an expensive lease to share with x number of other hunters and may or may not be the type of people you want to share with woods with.
In talking with people that no longer hunt, one of the major reasons is that they can’t find any place to do so. Alienate more landowners, cut off more and more access (which is already happening at an alarming rate anyway because of land sales, transfers, etc.), and how is that hunter recruitment and retention looking now?
Just my 2 cents…
Freddy, I wouldn’t say you are THE hunter I was referring to. Maybe one of them…;-).
Thanks for your comment and your candor. I think your comment illustrates a very important point that, like in so many debates, we often tend to think first about how a rule change will affect US personally.
Many supporters of lifting the ban think, “I will have more flexibility of when I can hunt, and maybe more of a chance to hunt with my kids.” I am very fortunate that my schedule is flexible enough that I get to hunt quite a bit already. You know the deal! Still, I’d say that above statement pretty well captures my feelings about how this would impact me personally.
A good friend who allows me to hunt his property is one of those guys who is pretty conservative on the Sunday hunting issue, but hunts on Sundays out of state. He sent me a note yesterday saying he has “mellowed” on the Sunday hunting issue, and might even allow it — provided the hunter goes to church in the morning. I think he was sorta being funny, but I replied that he was making my point exactly: It’s his property so he sets the rules. (As I stated above, we know landowner “freedoms” can go only so far; which is why you haven’t been able to start mining for uranium on your farm yet! Sorry!)
You and I have talked about your concerns about some of the folks who generously allow you to hunt their property. I don’t get the “I’ll show them!” mentality of their saying they will stop all hunting. The people that will hurt are the conscientious, honest and hard-working hunters. Like you. Closing property to all hunting won’t increase church attendance and it won’t reduce trespassing. It just means there will be more deer eating their shrubs and gardens, and running out in front of them as they drive to and from their homes. That said, if it is their property and they are abiding by rules that society as a whole deems as fair and necessary, they have that right to take a stand. (Virginia’s society has to this point deemed the Sunday hunting ban fair and necessary, but that is changing as more people come to understand the realities of Sunday hunting, as evidenced by the fact that it is a non-issue in the states where it is allowed.)
The loss of access to hunting land is a real concern, no doubt. You are absolutely right that it’s a battle we’re already facing. I shudder to think of a future during which the only way we’ll have access to private parcels is through leases. I don’t see how giving landowners the option of allowing Sunday hunting would increase leasing. Except maybe that because hunting access and flexibility would improve that could be seen as making their land more valuable for hunting than it is currently. And if that is the case, I’m thinking landowners would prefer to have their land worth more and not less, right?
Of course in addition to thinking about how this will impact us personally, we also need to think about how this will affect other hunters (and other Virginians, certainly). Some non-hunting Virginians fear major impact. History and reality of the 43 states where Sunday hunting is allowed show those concerns are not necessary. I don’t want you to lose access to the hunting ground you’ve earned by cultivating good relationships with landowners. I also don’t want hunters who aren’t as fortunate as we are in finding hunting time to have to give up because they work five or six days a week.
Let me make this promise to you: If Sunday hunting comes to pass and you lose access to some of your spots, I will personally knock on doors until I get you onto twice as many spots as you lost. Of course they may be in Highland County….
Freddie,
You have fallen into the same trap that Kirby Burch and Jim Hackett have placed for so many others. They are using scare tactics to keep the ban in place. Don’t you see it? There is not a single land owner or farmer that will give up that 6-8 dollars per acre they get from the deer clubs just because Sunday hunting is passed. What’s the difference? The clubs are on the land on Sunday anyway policing up stray dogs, target shooting, and scouting for Monday. So that argument/threat by these so-called landowners is bogus as all of the other arguments. It is the same scare tactics that Mr. Ware and Mr. Burch and the administration at the Speeddogs website have used for years to keep control of the masses that may want to see Sunday Hunting in Virginia. This is a simple, selfish-based purchase that is based upon religious beliefs of the landed gentry of the I-95 corridor, and animal rights groups. The shameful part is that Kirby Burch and others stood side by side at the committee meeting last year as allies against Sunday hunting. If you are against Sunday Hunting in Virginia, YOU ARE AN ANTI-HUNTER. Period, end of story. You have no basis to keep the ban in place in Virginia when so many other states have it with no ill effects. If you are against Sunday Hunting, you are an anti-hunter. truth hurts.
The truth is that Freddy McGuire is about as far from being an anti-hunter as anybody I know.
Another truth is that it really fires me up that some landowners, for reasons I simply cannot comprehend, are threatening to take their ball and go home.
These are people who should be first in line fighting for the right to recreate on their land as they see fit, while abiding by reasonable and prudent laws. They wouldn’t stand for a ban on using their tractors on Sunday. Or riding four-wheelers. Or target shooting. Of fishing. Or, you get the picture…
I don’t blame Freddy one bit for being concerned about the long-term impact on land access. I can only try to offer assurance that these landowners are bluffing.
If they’re not, guys like Freddy — who will do ANYTHING FOR A FRIEND, and that includes landowners who allow him access — will find other places to hunt. Landowners who allow Freddy (and his friends) access are LUCKY to have him. Which is why I feel confident I could get him onto a dozen new spots (and not in Highland County) if those landowners to which he refers follow through on their threats.
What I find most fascinating about the comments that landowners will close access if Sunday hunting is passed, is the fact that under current VA law, landowners lack the power to prevent hunter trespass…..including Sundays. VA is one of only two states that decriminalizes hunter trespassing. Oddly, the bulk of lawful Sunday hunting grants that hunter access to unowned property……yet no landowner, nor their legislative representative has sought to change the law?
Lawful Sunday hunting in VA represents the vast majority of VA’s direct hunting enterprise, with the exception of land leases. These major enterprises, (fox preserves and shooting preserves) depend on hunters for survival. When Sunday hunting restrictions are removed, these enterprises will face competition that they don’t currently face. If the hound lobby and the ag. lobby truly opposed Sunday hunting on a basis of faith, how can they explain their lack of opposition to the enclosures and the shooting preserves?
Our Sunday hunting regulations are a legislative hustle. The regulations have been sculpted to provide exclusive Sunday access to some, while excluded most. It really is much more complex than most of us understand.
Mark,
It’s all been an orchestrated bluff and bogus intelligence campaign from the beginning. The ones that do not want Sunday hunting, for whatever that reason is, prey on the gullible and those that may be scared of losing what they have. My family farms, have farmed, fished, and been watermen in this area of Virginia since it started. I know a lot of farmers. And not a single one will say that they do not have the right to keep people off of their land on any given day. And none of them oppose hunting. So why is the Farm Bureau saying that they do oppose it?? I think the numbers that they post are trumped up and padded. i think they survey WHO they want to get the numbers they desire, and then tally them the way they want (Which we saw with the Virginia Deer Hunters Association Survey about 10 years ago, where they were allowed to conduct, collect, tally, and present their findings and give to the VDGIF as gospel….what a joke).
Freddy is no doubt a great person and great hunter. But I find it quite hypocritical that someone who goes to another state and hunts on Sunday, doesn’t support it in their own state. Do as I say, and not as I do. It’s like the Muslims that travel to Dubai to get giggy because Allah can’t see them on that little island being bad Muslims.
Freddy, you wouldn’t be the “freddy” on the turkey website would you?
Because that WOULD explain a lot.
Mark, this is a great piece. Keep it up.
Mark and Freddie, During Ohio’s process of opening up Sunday hunting I did hear some stories about property owners who took away hunting access to their lands. You know what their farms became within one year? DEER HEAVEN I am told that it only took one season of crop damage and depradation before they realized that their position was ridiculous. How much of the strife, doom and gloom predictioned does Ohio have now with it’s Sunday hunting? None As a matter of fact I best most readers didn’t even know that Sunday hunting was once restricted in Ohio, it is a non issue now.
I do find it an offensive thought that Freddie is taking the position that I and my family can’t have the freedom and liberty, on my own property, to participate in an activity that is legal and safe the other 6 days of the week. We can’t have that freedom because he is fearful that some other property owner would enact their freedom to do what they want with their property impacting him and his friends. His position seems downright selfish and unAmerican to me.
Mark… Thanks for your comments and rational discussion. Appreciate you standing up for me in response to an earlier post as well.
I don’t have much time today to get into a lot of discussion but I can clearly see both sides of the issue. I just happen to be on one side based on my own personal feelings and thoughts. I certainly would never resort to bad mouthing people that don’t agree with me like some choose to do.
I do believe, at some point, Sunday hunting will come to Virginia. I will just deal with the personal ramifications of that change when/if it happens. I might take you up on the door knocking offer… Haha.
The keys to unlocking the Sunday hunting door in VA, lies and always has, in the existing lawful Sunday hunting. You don’t have to take my word for it…..consider the word’s of the strongest Sunday hunting opponents at last years hearing on SB464. They were the hound lobby, ag. lobby, fox hunters association and the horse council. What do three of the four have in common (hound lobby, horse council and fox hunters association) fairly exclusive Sunday hunting rights and liberal Sunday hunting access to unowned property. The ag. lobby benefits financially through all of the other organizations.
The Sunday hunting legislative debate is in it’s second decade…..and this year we’ll hear the same opposition……safety, trespassing, day of rest for people and wildlife, and religion. What steps has our legislature taken to ensure the safety of hunters and non-hunters…..none. What steps has the legislature taken to address trespassing…..none. What steps has our legislature taken to provide that day of rest…..none, in fact, we’ve seen significant increases in Sunday hunting access…..but it’s restrictive and doesn’t serve the majority of the people. Religion……is that what it all really boils down to? Nope…..it boils down to the protection of exclusive Sunday hunting access by those that have access, and at the expense of those that feel they are entitled to access.
So Freddy. You stay home and go to church or whatever you want to do, maybe run a website for non-sunday-hunting turkey hunters that don’t shoot rifles. But how does us going hunting on our own land, adversely affect you? It doesn’t, because you choose to not hunt on Sunday for whatever reason. But, How does you staying home and not hunting on Sunday adversely affect us??? Well, it affects us because we can’t hunt, and we want to.
You thanked Mark for a rational discussion, yet your arguments/stance for not allowing the rest of us to hunt on Sunday is anything but rational.
Once we do get Sunday hunting, if it ever happens, I will ensure that anyone that did not support lifting the ban never gets access to our land, Sunday, Saturday, Tuesday, or any day. We’ll make sure that you stick to your beliefs.
Thanks, I’m done.
Imagine if you all had to hunt National Forest with me………….I want to be able to utilize the land on Sundays as well as all the other days of the week. I can target shot on National Forest land on Sunday, I can hike and hang tree stands, check trail cameras and brush in blinds. I can photograph animals and stalk them. I just can’t pull the trigger……
Late reply to Randy Mays on my carrying a shotgun and bow question during the late season.
I would not be carrying a firearm during archery season. I would be carrying a bow during turkey season! Think the judge would buy it?
David….what you describe is likely the greatest wilderness land resource mismanagement in the country. Combined, the Washington and Jefferson National Forests are over twice the size of Rhode Island, and have a population density of “0″. But, the brilliance in VA’s legislature can’t find a way to coordinate a peaceful coexistance of some portion of it’s hunters and some portion of it’s non-hunters on Sundays. Yet, Rhode Island, with one of the country’s highest population densities has figured how to make Sundays work. Baffling!
I am not here to voice opinions for or against sunday hunting. however i consider myself highly qualified to speak to the issue having lived and hunted over the past 33yrs in both eastern and western VA. voting on sunday hunting takes on different issues depending on where you live & hunt. hunting in eastern virginia is a much more visible event. whereas hunting in western va tends to be more subtle. example: what would you think of sunday in eastern va looking out the church window watching a huntclub assemble with 7 or 8 trucks 26hounds and 15 hunters lining up to cross the road onto some georgia pacific leased hunting land
Where within minutes the hounds will be rolling out deer with shotguns popping along the creek for the next 2-3 hrs? now lets say its sunday in western va you live in roanoke county and there are 15 hunters entering the national forest…out of sight out of mind. with this being said i suggest the route to sunday hunting should follow this path…sunday hunting on state hunting properties & national forest only. next yr add private land after 12noon.then whatever gets passed in yr 3 or 4 will depend on how well us hunters handled our expanded rights.
Great article Mark and I agree 100% with all of the thought processes that support lifting the ban. This is about individuals right to decide whether to hunt, or allow others to hunt.
I grew up in a state that allows Sunday hunting and as you mention, the stats are there. Hunting accidents rarely if ever involve horseback riders, birdwatchers, campers or hikers. They involve hunters injuring themselves by falling out of a tree, or their hunting companion while crossing a fence or loading/unloading a weapon.
I recently wrote to my local delegate, Speaker of the House of Delegates Mr. Bill Howell and expressed my concerns about the actions and composition of the ‘kill’ subcommittee. I explained that it seems a subcommittee should be strictly voting on whether or not a piece of legislation should go before the entire house for a vote, not whether or not they or their constituents agree with it. Once they are on a subcommittee, their constituency becomes the entire state of Va. And reiterated the numerous polls and studies that indicate the majority of Virginians are for lifting the ban. He did respond and of course disagreed with my assessment of the subcommittee, which makes sense, as he is the one who assigns members to the committees in the house.
However he did state that ANY member of the house of delegates can request that any piece of legislation being considered by a committee or subcommittee be brought before the entire house for a vote. While I am not a procedural expert on the House of Delegates rules for committees and legislation consideration, I suspect he should be one of, if not the foremost authority (may be a stretch on my part). That said, all of us need to push the ‘pro ban-lifting’ delegates to request a full house vote on this legislaton during the next session to ensure house legislation or a crossover bill such as SB464 from last year get a vote from the whole house.
Greg — Obviously I feel strongly that equality is equality here, and I don’t like the idea of singling out one type of hunter over others. If hunting on public land is safe, ethical, legal and biologically sound six days of the week during designated seasons, there is no reason it shouldn’t be allowed seven days a week. The same with hunting with hounds. No doubt the reason some hounds hunters are cautious about this rule is because of the very scenario you brought up. There activity is already under a lot of public scrutiny, so they are concerned about the prospect of bringing more. (So why did the hound lobby still oppose last session’s legislation? Because the hound lobby is not being forthright about that concern, and instead is sticking by its guns, so to speak, and saying that its primary concern is in religious in nature which I have an extremely hard time believing is actually the case.)
Anyway, all of the above said, I think most proponents of non-discrimination of hunters would like to see something rather than nothing. So maybe a one-step-at-a-time approach is the way to go. As these steps are taken, opponents of Sunday hunting, be they non-hunters or hunters, will see first hand what citizens of 43 states see right now: It’s a non-issue. And, as I’ve said before, if it turns out that hounds ARE a problem, that’s not a Sunday hunting issue. It is a hounds and right-to-retrieve issue that needs to be addressed on its own.
Daren — Great points and thanks for bringing up the important information regarding contacting your local delegate. Every hunter who has a dog in this fight (pun not intended!) needs to do exactly the same thing.
I wrote last year that, while I was frustrated about how things went in the House sub-committee, I understand the need for the system. Senators and delegates propose a lot of um, dumb, legislation every year and the General Assembly would get nothing done if full chambers had to consider every piece. The way it works now those senators and delegates can propose their dumb legislation, make their point (or make themselves look dumb), and then the committees and subcommittees can kill it.
It is maddening when a tiny minority in one chamber can sink a piece of legislation, such as SB464, when the majority of the entire other chamber has seen fit to pass it. Like you I’m hardly an expert on General Assembly procedures. If a single subcommittee member can, indeed, force a full vote on any piece (and that makes a lot of sense to protect against situations like what we saw with SB464) then we can only hope that if that situation arises this time around, one member of that subcommittee will have the wherewithal to do the right thing.
Tony, that is a great point. Greg, the religious side of this argument is gone. THe only way we could ever go back to using religion in any part of the argument would be to return to many other areas of our daily/weekly lives and implement religion where it once was…… remember Sunday Blue Laws? I will give you another example to think about. Imagine being an Athiest ( I am Seventh-Day Adventist for the record, as yes, i have to break my religious code if I want to hunt Saturdays) and you are sitting at a wal-mart on sunday morning, and out the window you see Christians assembling with 7 or 8 trucks, 26 children, 15 choir members and over the next 1 1/2 – 2 hrs (unless they are southern baptist which could be 3-4 hrs) you are bombarded with singing, music, cries to the lord, etc.Should church become banned because the atheist doesn’t like all the singing and praising? I know this is a stretch, as is alot of the argument surrounding Sunday Hunting. We can’t argue this point on little details, it has to be accomplished on a broad scale. The state seems to be willing to make special rules for certain areas, I.E. harvest amounts from county to county, east of the blue ridge vs. west of the blue ridge, so maybe Sunday Hunting can make its way in, maybe we could institute a “no hunter assembly within sight of a church” rule……
Mark….to your last question. If you’re hunting during a firearms season, carrying both archery equipment and a firearm shouldn’t be a violation, since archery equipment is legal for all seasons.
Greg Emerson, you make a valid point except, you don’t consider that same scenario where church service and church activity takes place on Saturday. But we don’t hear or read hunting being a conflict with Saturday church services or other church activities. I believe there are times when the western bear hound hunter represents that same scenario as the eastern deer hound hunter. Odd, that SB464 was revised to give churches a 250 yard respect buffer from hunting activity, but VA has never required a buffer for recreational shooting.
We continue to tie religion to the Sunday hunting debate……but does it really belong? If the faith based opposers of Sunday hunting took a closer look at the regulations they’d find that there is no “day of rest” from hunting on Sundays. Hunters aren’t truly asking that hunting on Sundays be legalized……they’re simply asking the regulations be generalized.
David….the religious aspect of the argument is something that needs to be addressed and overcome. But the religious aspect of the argument displays ignorance. Here’s a perfect example of where the faith based argument displays ignorance of the law. VA prohibits conventional hunting of coyotes for example, (with firearms)on Sundays. VA also prohibits coyotes from being chased on Sundays, (without intent to take). But under VA law it’s perfectly legal to trap coyotes on Sundays, and perfectly legal to shoot with a firearm, a coyote that’s held in a trap. This is true for a number of species. Does it make sense that VA would hold hunters out on Sundays under a declared day of rest, but allow wildlife to be killed under methods other than conventional hunting?
To add onto Tony’s argument Senator Northam’s Bill went through a series of compromises to try and get passed but still couldn’t get passed the Republican rigged subcommittee orchestrated by Delegates and Chairs Sherwood (R – Winchester area) and Ware (R – Powhatan area) under the unwatchful eye of Speaker Howell.
I was there, The Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance stood up at the Senate hearing in the same line of people who obviously had axes to grind against hunting in general and said “We represent hound hunters in Virginia and we don’t want hunting on Sunday.” Funny thing is they got exactly what they asked for, deer hounds were eliminated from the proposed bill. Did the VaHDA jump on board then because their members got what they wanted? Nope
Their message should be saying “We represent a minority of hunters in the state but we don’t want anyone but us to continue being allowed to hunt with our dogs on Sunday.”
Everytime I write about this and the farce that Delegate Ware and the Republicans are orchestrating in Richmond it gets me riled up. It is time for Virginians to be given the freedom to choose to participate in the last and only singled out activity banned on the 7th day that is legal and safe the other 6 days of the week. Just like Tony trumpets all the time, it is already happening. How our legislators can stand up and say Sunday is a day of rest with all the hunting that is already happening I have no idea, it is a corrupt and unethical system which they have laid out for the state. Just like you said Mark, it is discriminatory.
Virginas General Assembly is nothing more than Chimposity.
I believe what makes this discussion so frustrating for so many people is that supporters of the ban really boil down to two positions: 1) They don’t want hunting on Sundays for religious reasons or 2) they just don’t like hunting . Those who don’t like hunting are the ones who talk about trespassing or catching a stray bullet or animals needing rest. They would just rather have 6 days of it then 7. They often claim to support hunting, which can be maddening.
And for religion, I think in this day and age it is insulting to a lot of people that others would impress their religious beliefs on them. I happen to hunt on land where the landowner is very religious and doesn’t believe in any noise on Sunday on his land: no target shooting, no mowing the lawn, no running chainsaw, etc. In fact, he won’t do any work on the property on Sunday either. That’s fine because it’s his land and his beliefs and I abide by his rules while on his property. I think he also doesn’t shop on Sundays either because he doesn’t believe the malls should be opened. And that’s fine too. But I wonder how some of the supporters of this ban would react if he came over to your house on Sunday and said please stop mowing the yard, or please stop working because its Sunday and you shouldn’t be doing those things. Or stopped you at the mall to tell you that you shouldn’t be shopping. Wouldn’t they say leave me alone?
I offer my fellow hunters and the hunting community at large two quotes. Please form you own opion whether you feel they are closer to the position of an animal rights extremeist with an agenda or that of an informed experienced hunter.
“Bullets travel without regard to property lines—and so do shotgun pellets or slugs or even arrows from powerful-enough bows. And always, for an unsuspecting equestrian, there is the peril of encountering a hunter who misconstrues a horse—or a person—for a deer or any other game.”
“Equestrians, hikers, bikers, picnickers, bird-watchers, fishermen, canoeists, kayakers: all of these wish, too, to enjoy Virginia’s great outdoors, often on Sunday—and they wish to do so without the threat inevitably posed by the presence of rifle- or shotgun-toting hunters.”
These quotes come from the individual who should be held most accountable for killing Sunday hunting last year as the House AG Subcommittee Chairman, Delegate Lee Ware (Republican – Chesterfield, Fluvanna, Goochland, and Powhatan DelLWare@house.virginia.gov).
Does he sound like a hunting supporter? Accidental arrowing?!?!? You’ve got to be kidding me. He uses the same extreme argument those who wish to end all hunting use.
For anyone who wonders, Matt did not make these quotes up. They are from a commentary Ware wrote last year. You can read the entire piece here:
http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=180277&start=0
If it doesn’t make you shake your head, nothing will. This is a guy who uses the term “my fellow-hunters” (not sure why he put a hyphen in there. Maybe he hunts fellows?), to make sure readers know he is a hunter, and then goes on to use hyperbole we expect from the extreme anti-hunting movement to describe hunters. Again, if this guy was a member of PETA this would be expected. But a “fellow hunter”? Come on!
Matt O’Brien thanks for the share, and thanks for the efforts to cause a change to VA’s Sunday hunting regulations. What should be of great interest to both sides of the Sunday hunting debate is how Ware has changed 29.1-521 and how he’s voted on past Sunday hunting bills.
He and Harvey Morgan actually carried legislation that revised 29.1-521 by adding language that basically states a hunter can be in hunting spot on Sundays, and in possession of a firearm, but not be in violation of illegally hunting on Sunday. I can only speak for myself. If I’m in my hunting area, and I’m carrying a gun…..I’m there to hunt. So he actually legislated into law the situation that he justifies his opposition to Sunday hunting on.
I can’t find the code…..but he also voted in support to allow trapped animals to be shot with guns on Sundays. I thought it was restricted to rimfire weapons…..but that only applies when a trapper discharges a weapon over water to dispatch (kill) a trapped animal. So a trapper could legally kill a trapped animal with any legal gun…..understanding that a rimfire is almost always used.
I suspect Ware supported legislation that allowed falconry to take place on Sundays too. I suspect he supported wild birds of prey being trapped on Sundays as well as being use to hunt all game and bird species on Sunday?
He voted in support of the bear hound training bill last year in committee, but opposed it on the floor. I suspect it was brought to his attention that bear hound training included Sundays?
I’ll always support all hunting…..but the divisive nature of a few select hunting lobbies makes it tougher every year.
Ware doesn’t align himself with PETA, or HSUS…..take a look at how he votes. He strongly supports the hound lobby, and at the expense of every hunter, including hound hunters, in the State.
Just wanted to throw out my 2 cents. We as hunters have to pay extra to hunt on national forest land.We should be able to hunt on sundays.The hikers and bikers do not have to pay anything to use the land to do what they want. Maybe they should band everything that happens on sundays even going to church since people think it is a day to stay at home and rest
True Tony, and if you drill down into the campaign contribution logs for Delegate Ware, you will see the likes of the Virginia Hunting Dog Owner’s Association and Virginia Farm Bureau among others.
Henry B……you’re partly correct. Hunters and fisherfolks are what are considered “consumptive users”…..and yes they pay for additional permits, “consumptive use fees”. But, every tax payer funds the costs associated with the National Forests. Just like the revenue that funds the WMA’s…..there are “consumptive fees”……but much of the revenue comes from taxes collected on firearms and shooting products. So in reality…..people that may never step foot on a WMA have actually funded the costs of these properties.
Daren Brown……that’s why I continue to pound the fact that it’s legal to hunt on Sundays. If the hound, and ag. lobby were genuinely opposed to Sunday hunting, they’d lobby their closest friends in the General Assembly to make all hunting unlawful on Sundays.
Mark started this thread with the mention of discrimination. He’s on point…..but the discrimination is greatest within the different hunting interest groups. These groups would fight much harder to preserve existing and exclusive Sunday hunting rights than they’ve fought the generalization of Sunday hunting regulations. The exclusivity is what funds the treasuries, and keeps the customers from trying something new.
I have a small plaque that states, “The Ten Commandments are Not Multiple Choice” I believe that and I believe Commandment IV. When Moses led the Children of Israel out of Egypt, they could not even gather up their ‘Manna’ for food on Sunday. Sounds good to me!
The regulation seems offensive and archaic (and yes, very much discriminatory).
So do they ban abortions on Sunday too? Very different of course. Yeah, yeah, one is supposed to be “health care” (gag) but isn’t eating healthy, anyway?
Clearly discrimination and money politics. The same problem exists in most places – not the hunting law but the fact that the incredible sacrifice of running for office (whether or not one wins) and the unappealing company one must keep if elected seems to deter the well-qualified from political office.
There are a few points where the errors of both political extremes converge to assault the freedoms of those in the middle. Another name for it is the old marketing term, “foot in the door technique” whereby one seeks to gain further ground rather than lose it.
IMHO.
I grew up in Ohio and had to face the Sunday ban on hunting. As far as I know, fishing was legal. The ban was also on trapping. Back then in the horse and buggy and the 46 Ford days, I bought my school clothes for the next year from the sale of furs that I trapped. I had to snap all traps on Sunday, so I used the time to prospect for more places to make sets.
The sanctimounious preachers, who liked to tell everyong what to do never got a shot at me anyway. Sunday bans are throwbacks to the days of the pilgrims when if a man didn’t attend worship services, he was whipped or put in stocks. God is in the fields as well as in some sweaty dressed to impress service. Sunrise on the fields is far more beautiful than anything inside a building. The sounds of the natural world waking are far more impressive than any hells-fire preacher.
Sorry, but that’s the way I feel.
Don – Here’s a quote I like: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” (First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution)
You would continue to be free to interpret the Holy Bible as you see fit, within the law. Removing the Sunday hunting ban, which is discriminatory to certain religious, would have zero impact on yours.
Though I used to hunt when I was younger, I don’t anymore — due to being somewhat mobility limited now. Personally, I’d support Sunday hunting, if Sundays were limited to bow-hunting only.
Since arrows don’t fly nearly as far as bullets can, other non-hunting folks who wish to enjoy the outdoors could do so, without any undue fear about being hit by stray bullets. Now, before y’all get on my case, I realize that “stray bullets” aren’t too likely to be an issue with responsible, experienced hunters, but you do have to admit that it’s possible that it could happen.
On the other hand, non-hunting folks who wish to enjoy a bit of the outdoors, also could do so without the sound of gunfire ringing through the hills and valleys.
Bow-hunting only on Sundays seem to me to be the best of both worlds wrapped into one. It’d be a nice way to make peace with those who’d like to hunt on Sundays, while balancing that along with not displacing those who simply wish to enjoy a peaceful Sunday outdoors.
And, that’s my “two cents” on the issue!
SweetOBob…..I followed Ohio on it’s push for Sunday hunting. I believe it passed on a trial/propationary basis for one year? Not a problem and then was adopted into law. I never knew that trapping was prohibited in Ohio on Sunday.
In Virginia we restrict most forms of Sunday hunting…..yet at the same time liberate lots of Sunday hunting including trapping. My position has always been, if we’re going to rest our wildlife on Sundays, why do we allow them to be hunted? What’s the difference with reference to rest, if I chase them, trap and then kill them, kill them through a bird of prey……or hunt them conventionally? It seems that Sunday mortality isn’t at all important…..the only thing that’s important is how the mortality is carried out?
If I opposed hunting on Sunday on a basis of faith…..I have to believe I’d have much greater objection to a wild animal killing another animal at the captor’s command……or an animal being held in a trap for up to 24 hours before a trapper was required to dispatch (kill) it.
I suuport all hunting and trapping, but take great issue with VA’s illogical Sunday hunting regulations. It’s not that you can’t hunt on Sundays in VA……it’s that the law dictates, just on Sundays, how one has to go about the kill.
I would have liked to have seen this kind of interaction on the rut thread when the rut was coming! This is great!
Yooper…..that’s a very reasonable comment…..except that it shoulders all of the responsibility on hunters. VA licenses about 225,000 hunters…..and not all would hunt on Sundays. There are about 8,000,000 firearms residing in the homes of 2,000,000 Virginians. Restricting Sunday hunting doesn’t restrict recreational shooting on Sundays. So if we restrict Sunday hunting, and at the same time liberate recreational shooting on Sundays are you safer or less safe?
My experience has always been I seldom discharge my weapon when I hunt……maybe once every fourth outing. On Sundays, when I shoot recreationally……well, I’ll make up for a lifetime of shooting in one outing.
Unfortunately, there have been a handful of people shot by hunters……no excuses and no defenses. Over say the past three decades, 6,000+ Virginians have been killed in drunk driver related crashes……but few people concern themselves with the risk that they would be killed by a drunk driver……but why?
Thanks the comment, YooperGal.
First thing is, please feel free to contact me by email or phone and I will be able to provide you some information on hunts for the mobility-impaired. There are some super organized hunts available.
Second, your point about the ban reducing potential conflicts among hunters and non-hunters is, as I’ve said many time, the most compelling argument in support of the status quo. I’ve also said many times before that we’re talking about a half-dozen weekends in Western Virginia and, at most, double that in Eastern Virginia where any notable amount of firearms hunting is taking place. So the number of days we’re talking about is minimal. And there’s that other issue of target shooting being completely legal on Sundays. I crunched numbers last year (based on the number of deer killed per county) and even if it is taking hunters two shots for every deer killed, the number of hunting shots is surprisingly minimal. Those who do get out on Sunday to scout, work on stands, hike, trail run, mountain bike, etc. (I’m one of them) can tell you that we hear plenty of shots echoing through the hills and valleys on Sundays.
A bowhunting-only move would be better than nothing. It’s the approach North Carolina took. But, again as I’ve said before, I think it sends a message that even we hunters agree that gun hunting is disruptive and dangerous. That’s a concession I, personally, don’t think we need to make.
Thanks again for your “two cents” and, again, please contact me personally regarding opportunities for mobility-impaired hunters.
If most people are against hunting on sunday because of the whole church thing what all the comments be like if they wanted to ban carrying a bible and no church on sunday? Just wondering
Mark…..maybe in the four decades plus that I’ve hunted…..I lived as a sheltered hunter? I hear about conflicts……but quite honestly I’ve never come across another person when I was hunting. Maybe they all hide until Sunday. But, I spend lots of time in the woods on Sunday…..and never crossed paths then either.
If an activity took place that prevented me from doing what I wanted…..I’d force a change. Oddly, in the past 2 decades plus we always and only hear about conflicts when Sunday hunting is brought to the discussion……and more oddly, I am unaware of any constituent or any legislator that’s taken any steps to address these abundance of conflicts. If these conflicts truly exist, then it’s obvious that those that are impacted by the conflicts have allowed the system’s failure.
Tony, I can’t say the same thing. What I can say is that I’ve never had an unsafe or even slightly uncomfortable encounter with another outdoor enthusiast when I’ve been hunting. OR, as has happened, when I’ve been trail running, hiking or mountain biking and encountered hunters. Ultimately, I think most of us get that we are out there for the same reasons and we are easily able to co-mingle. Again, we see from 43 other states that hunters and others get along just fine.
I understand why some non-hunters are concerned. After all it is the unknown, at least in Virginia. Hey, hunters are some of the best fearmongers I know. Remember the doomsday talk we had when crossbows were being considered? The world was going to end, remember?
The best I can do is to try to assure those with concerns that those concerns are not warranted. And then try to not be too smug when turns out I am right, which I will be.
Thanks Mark…..like I said, I’ve apparently lived a sheltered hunter’s life. I don’t hunt much on public land, but I’ve hunted for years in areas with high population densities.
It’s a tough battle for hunters when we have a history of shooting ourselves, as well as some non-hunters. My point has always been, why hasn’t there been changes that could impact the safety of not only hunters…..but more importantly the non-hunter?
It’s never made much sense that the DGIF suggests that non-hunters wear a safety color that designates them as another hunter. Why wouldn’t VA take the lead, and suggest a color other than hunter orange for those not hunting……perhaps that bright green color that our first responders, and road workers use? And then lets educate hunters as to what that color designates, and what the appropriate behavior would be?
We continue to work apart, when we truly need to work together……but why?
Mark- You’ve certainly succeeded in generating a lot of comments and interest. I’ll drop one more into the mix as a follow up from my previous post. Tony mentioned that he has never had a conflict while hunting. I’ve had them both as a hunter and as a landowner. In all cases, they involved hunters coming onto private land and then acting badly. One tried to tell me that because a game warden had said he “might” be able to hunt an area it was ok for him to do so. Others involved hunters getting told to leave and then they shoot up a gate or equally stupid and dangerous actions. As someone mentioned, trespass in Va. isn’t a crime so game wardens in my area have this pretty far down the list when it comes to responding for requests for help. They will get here but not quickly enough to matter. Most landowners that I know don’t even bother to call a game warden for trespass anymore unless they are willing and able to restrain the hunter, which is at best a dicey proposition.
I was also reminded of one other large difference between this area of the state and the Roanoke area. We have waterfowl hunting on large open flat fields and larger open waterways where the sound of gunshots travels for miles. With calm weather the past week, I’ve had no trouble knowing exactly when 1/2 hour before sunrise was as I’ve been awakened with barrage after barrage from 1/2 hour before until about an hour after sunrise. From the sound, I think these are typically four or more hunters in a blind each shooting three shots at whatever. (I’ve seen as many as 15 hunters in a goose blind. That sounds like a military firing line.) Since many of the homes in my area are on the waterfront, my experience is shared by many, many non-hunters. Many of those folks barely tolerate hunting now but can easily become active in the no-hunting movement. Different places have different conditions and while many deer hunters in your area can slip into the woods, fire one shot and have a great deer hunt without hardly being noticed, many of our area hunters are noticed by dozens, if not hundreds of people.
Finally, this issue like gun control, too often becomes an emotional issue rather than a logical discussion. Someone else can’t believe that a landowner would close down hunting on their property if Sunday hunting passes while I can easily understand that sometimes you just get tired of dealing with requests for hunting and it’s much easier to say “No Hunting, period.” Hunters want to expand their season while many non-hunters wish there was no hunting. Hunters acting badly do poison the discussion for ethical hunters. In turn ethical hunters can’t understand why landowners lump the good in with the bad. I personally don’t think VDGIF has been very proactive in bringing together hunters and landowners. For what it’s worth, I think hunters may win the Sunday hunting battle and lose the public perception war. Ultimately that will mean less land to hunt, less public support and less opportunity for the sport.
Eastern Land Owner….I always appreciate your approach to these discussion. You never fail to bring a logical element to the debate, which is exactly what I’ve always tried to do. I’ve studied the law and more so the exceptions to law that relate to hunting on Sundays in VA. I’ve always believed that the hunting and shooting exceptions demonstrated a level of Sunday hunting acceptance……yet I’ve also known that there is a high level of ignorance associated with what’s lawful on Sundays.
In over four decades of hunting, and that includes years where I hunted nearly every morning, or every afternoon, and many Saturdays, I’ve never seen a non-hunter, and have seen four individuals trespass. Two were hunters that “eased” over the property line, and both eased back when they saw me. One young man that trespassed rode an ATV, and we worked out an agreement where he could ride and I could hunt without any problems. Another trespasser was actually a group of horse trailriders. Again, we worked things out where everyone won. Never, had the experience that some describe though.
Today in VA there are about 100 license commercial and/or private shooting preserves……all have access to Sunday hours from one-half hour before sunrise to one-half hour after sunrise. I follow hunting issues pretty closely…..and I’m unaware of Sunday hunting being an issue at any of these preserves.
I have no idea how many shooting ranges there are in VA, but again I haven’t been able to find where there’s much, if any, opposition to range activity on Sundays.
Like I’ve posted above, 8,000,000 firearms reside in the homes of 2,000,000 Virginians that are gun owners. Laws restrict hunting on Sunday, but we don’t regulate recreational shooting. Does one justify restricting the other, or does one justify liberating the other?
Back to trespassing. I’ve heard, everytime Sunday hunting enters the discussion, that it’s a huge problem. It was a big enough problem last year, that one legislator felt compelled to introduce stricter legislation……but the bill’s support was apparently mute……I have to ask why?
I live very close to the water too. I hear the waterfowlers in the fall, I hear the waterman about all year, and I hear the boats from March through November……but I never allowed it to bother me. I hope someone out there is having the time of their life. But, quite honestly, if what these folks did bothered me……it’d have to bother me each and everyday, and not just on Sundays. Oh….and I forgot, I hear the timber workers too…..and everyday so long as it’s dry enough to work…..but they are doing something on their land that the law says is legal. All hunters that support expanding Sunday hunting are asking is to do something on their land that the law says is legal…..and all they are essentially asking is to be able to do so without the restriction that only applies to Sunday.
Eastern Landowner: Thank you for bringing your voice to this discussion, as it is one that holds much of the power, as you say, in hunters’ ability to pursue the sport we love. To tack on to Tony’s reason, I would like to add that if the Sunday hunting ban were to be repealed and landowners decided to stop giving hunting permission for their properties, then that will be the landowners’ perogative and us hunters can do nothing but respect what you see fit for your land. It is your right to refuse us permission to access your property. Is it right for those who own land to be refused permission to their OWN property? No, and that is why (along with many other reasons stated here) the ban should be repealed.
I grew up in Vermont, late ’30′s to mid ’50′s, my dad worked construction and thankfully there was no law against Sunday hunting, because that was the only day we really had. The only ban they had was cows and does. They would lift the ban on does every few years to cull the herd. Never on cows. I still remember it, every day for a week before deer season every paper in the state would run a front page article, with pictures of a buck and a cow with the words “Legal Deer” and “Cow” respectively under them. Seems we had a lot of city hunters from a bit further south that couldn’t tell the difference. Some couldn’t tell the difference between a doe and a buck either. ’52 and ’53 I worked at a game check point on a volunteer basis. A lot of out of state hunters lost their cars, rifles, and hunting privileges over a doe strapped on the fender, that they were damn proud of until they found out it was illegal and what they had lost as a result.
Eastern Landowner….in addition to the land I own, myself and a group of other hunters lease land for the express purpose of hunting. Some of it privately owned, and some corporately owned. This is the position of all of these landowners on the issue of Sunday hunting. 1) the law costs them lease revenue 2) the law not only costs them lease revenue, but is a violation of property rights law 3) hunters are running and recovering hounds on Sundays….so they really don’t see where the Sunday regulation makes much sense 4) none would restrict access to hunting on Sunday.
You mentioned something about hunters shooting at gates or property. You also mention that game wardens don’t respond. I don’t have any experience with these types of incidents. But, my question would be, if you know game wardens are spread thin, why wouldn’t you call the sheriff’s office? What you describe is criminal activity, not hunting activity.
I feel confident that I can speak for every responsible and ethical hunter in VA…..we want what you describe removed completely from the hunting community. We, whenever we see violations, would be the first to get involved. We recognize this as what it is, a threat to our hunting future.
But what puzzles me most is that people will live with this so long as hunting doesn’t expand to Sunday……I honestly can make no sense of that.
It always puzzles me when someone calls a criminal a hunter. The tresspasser isn’t a hunter, the poacher isn’t a hunter. They are criminals.
Do we say a shop lifter is shopping as they shove items into their pockets. Is a bank robber banking when he says “Open up the drawer and give me all the money!”? Certainly not, but a person entering somebody else’s property armed or somebody who is out shooting is called a hunter. It puzzles me.
I would say this, if somebody is on my property without permission there will be no shrug of the shoulders and admission that the game wardens don’t care. That is ludicrous, I will have the matter addressed.
I have a sneaking suspicion when these “horror stories” that arise just don’t hold water to how a reasonable person would respond to a perceived dangerous sitiuation. If it were me and my family that were dealing with a perceived dangerous situation there wouldn’t be any kind of thoughts like “Oh well, the game wardens just don’t address it.” In addition to the fact that I have heard twice as many stories of game wardens spending countless hours investigating, tracking down and stacking out tresspassing situations.
The horror stories just don’t pass the sniff test in my book.
Tony-
The gate shooter was prosecuted which cost my brother a couple of days of work and the shooter got a slap on the wrist and was told to not do it any more. Deputies are also spread thin and it’s difficult to make armed individuals hold still until the law arrives.
I also lease land to a hunt club and last year wrote no Sunday hunting into the lease. The hunt club didn’t object at all.
I wish you and all ethical hunters great luck in rooting out the rogues. Personally, I don’t even remember hearing of a hunter turning in another hunter but I’m sure it happens somewhere, at least I hope so.
I don’t say that I like living with rogue hunters, it’s just that every time I’ve tried to do something about it the consequences to the hunter are less than the consequences that I face in lost time, danger etc. I and my family do run trespassers off our land and it’s invariably when I don’t have time to deal with them. In our area, judges are very lenient on civil hunting violations such as trespass, hunting within riparian areas etc. and it’s hardly worth going to court. Game wardens are similarly not interested but are ready with a ticket if your license isn’t perfect, you forgot a HIP number etc.
The level of hunting trespass violations and other hunting behavior is definitely less on Sunday in this area because rogues stand out like a single billiard ball on the pool table. I’m glad you live in a more Utopian area but as we both know, different areas have different conditions. You want more time to do something you love, I don’t want to expand the time I have to deal with unpleasant issues. Different circumstances and different views for each of us. While I can only control my land, I’m also in contact with many farmers and landowners who own a significant amount of land. Much of that is teetering on the edge of “no hunting” and Sunday hunting may tip the balance. As I stated above, I think it likely that the hunters may win the battle but lose the war as land starts closing down to hunting.
Eastern Landowner, again, thanks for the civil discussion. You are obviously opposed to expanding Sunday hunting opportunities. You apparently have a trespass issue on your property. I’ve followed the Sunday hunting debate, and other hunting legislative changes for pretty closely for the past couple of decades. I’d say that I’ve followed the matter about as close as anyone in the State. But always, and only, when a discussion of expanding Sunday hunting do I read objections like your’s. Last session, when there were a multitude of Sunday hunting bills in the General Assembly, people like yourself cited all of the problems associated with hunting, and tied them to Sunday. Once, the Sunday bill failed, the critics grew silent once again. My question is and always will be……why does there have to be a discussion of hunting on Sunday for these concerns to be voiced? And why would no constituent, and no legislator address these concerns…..especially since they’ve been brought up each year over the past two decades….so long as there was a Sunday hunting bill on the table? It just can’t make any sense that people would be willing to live with these issues six days a week, in exchange for Sunday hunting restriction.
I’ve had the privilege to hunt in about a third of VA’s counties over the decades. Again, I haven’t experienced, in any of those counties, the criminal element that you describe. I’m not sure if I’ve hunted in your county, but I’ve hunted every area of the State. I have to say…..you apparently have a criminal element in your community regardless of the day or the season. It puzzles me why residents wouldn’t force the county supervisors to make changes……or force them out of office.
This Sunday only concern is the most illogical argument we can make. It basically is saying, you can violate us Monday through Saturday, so long as you respect us on Sunday.