Firearms education in 1,000 words
If I had some extra cash, the Browning BAR Short-trac Hog Stalker in .308 would be on my short list.
As I worked this week on my Firearms FAQ (it ended up being firearms 101), one thing that became clear was that offering a firearms primer for non-shooting general public in 1,000 words is tough. As I told my wife last night, “You need a book.”
I have gotten one mild complaint this morning. A reader wished I had pointed out the difference between “magazine” and “clip.” I wrote that magazines are sometimes called clips. That’s accurate. But the two are different and I know it’s an annoying pet peeve of some firearms folks to hear magazines called “clips.” But as I pointed out to this reader, who was nice about it, if you go to the firearms glossary at the National Shooting Sports Foundation’s website and look up “clip,” the definition is “See magazine.”
Anyway, please give my piece a read if you get a chance and feel free to offer suggestions on other items and issues that I and others who cover firearms should keep in mind as we write about this for the general public.
February 1, 2013 - 10:21 AM
Magazine and clips…It’s a great way to hear experienced combat veterans with 30 KIA’s brag of their battle field bravado.
Also a good separate fact from bulldougie.
Mark: Two quick observations. Like your pet peeve one of mine is the term “AR”. It does not stand for “ArmaLite” as you noted but “ArmaLite Rifle”. I know, small detail. Secondly it is really elementary. Rather than firearms 101 this is 1st grade firearms. BUT you should know the need better than I. Are there really people out there (adults) that are THAT unaware of firearms related “stuff”. I guess so. Seems that’s how Obama got elected and they are the ones clammering for controls to solve “the problem”. Hummmm, just wondering if the govt started to give away a new Kimber along with signing up for SNAP, would that yield even more support for the democrats?
Mark, thanks for this elementary eduaction on firearms. I currently live in CA and would love to see this published here. To watch the local media and listen to certain politicians, you would think that having an AR anything would put us in the days of Al Capone! It really is sensationalism IMHO in the types of things that are said today concerning guns and gun control. If people were educated on even this elementary level, I believe that most would not be swayed by the political talk and instead would look to how we can better enforce the gun laws that already exist. Thanks again from a law abiding legal gun owner.
” Are there really people out there (adults) that are THAT unaware of firearms related “stuff”.” -Bubba Greene
Sadly, yes. In fact, you’d be very surprised. Not being enducated is a basic, fundamental flaw in any debate, let alone this one.
I have to concurr with ken86 as I also live in the SF Bay Area and so tired of people on the news not having a clue about guns and acting like they do. They all lead you to believe that a semi-auto anything is horrible to own. But I am also disappointed in many of the conservative “spokespeople” going on the air and also being very poor speakers about guns because many of them have a very limited knowledge of firearms…even calling some pistols “assault pistols”, whatever that means! There is a female radio personality that has appeared on CNN’s Pierce Morgan show several times recently, and she has very little knowledge of firearms and essentially giggles when Pierce grills her. She looks very stupid and that is why Pierce continues to ask her back on the show. We can and should find better spokesmen. The good news in CA is that there have been new members joining the gun club in my area.
Go 49′ers!!!!!!!!!! Go Hokies!!!!!!
Bubba, as a gun owning Democrat, I strongly resemble your remarks!
MR. Obama was ELECTED president of The United States of America because Republicans cannot seem to field a reasonable, intelligent candidate, and their last presidential winner drove this country into the ditch, big-time. People don’t quickly forget these things. I mean,for example, Sarah Palin? Seriously??
Mark, I think the depth of ignorance about firearms is a big part of the national angst we are going through right now and any effort to educate those target folks properly must start with the very basics, assuming for this purpose, that they know absolutely nothing. Better thee than me, though, I can’t say hello in just a thousand words.
HEY PERCH
OBAMA WAS ELECTED BY FOLKS WHO WANT A FREE RIDE AND WANT THE GOVT TO GIVE THEM EVERYTHING WITHOUT WORKING FOR IT. I WILL BET MOST OF THOSE TYPES KNOW ALL ABOUT GUNS AND HOW TO USE THEM.
So Perch, does that mean you got a Kimber for your vote? Clay, you know the “assault” term is getting tagged on every aspect of the anti gun message. Just this week I read of a shooting someplace where the shooter wore black “assault clothing” in his attack. Black pants, shirts, shoes and coats are next on the “to be banned” list. Another point about the awareness of the public and firearms. If people are “ignorant” on the subject they have a decision to make. Either become educated, read, seek, search and come to their own conclusions. Guess which group of voters go that route. OR they can simply let the leaders who they admire and vote for tell them what to think. Guess which group of voters go down that path.
Bubba: According to these Green Berets, “AR” is a representation of the first two letters of “Armalite”. I think this is a very valuable read for both sides of the gun control debate. Its long, but very worth it. I am posting this from a forum, and the letter was taken from a “professional soldiers” forum where a link to the PDF of the letter can be found, but it (unfortunately) cannot be viewed unless one is signed in to the PS forum.
http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/showthread.php?t=933191
Mark, I think your article is a good read for folks that have limited understanding of firearms.
JOHN WRIGHT,your insulting remarks only show your ignorance. The ‘all-caps’ typing helps to make that point.
Bubba, I usually like your comments from the far right perspective. The Kimber/SNAP comment was, well, not to the level of your typical posts.
Well, RJSteiner, heaven forbid I should run against a group of “Greene” Berets or professional soldiers on some message forum. There certainly is adequate support for the AR to come from ARmaLite. They also produced (?) a line of shotguns and pistols which also carried the “AR” designation so it does make sense. But I do know I was handed one and my drill Sgt so defined it as standing for ArmaLite Rifle and being a good soldier I learned very quickly not to question the Drill Sgt. I’ll add, just for some color, I slept with one in a mud hole covered with corrigated culvert metal and sand bags for 8 months about 60 miles from the Cambodian border back in the 60′s. It was my best friend and will always be ArmaLite Rifle to me. Gene Stoner was one of the critical people in the development of the weapon. He also had some of his own designs which were designated “SR”, thought there is that referred to Stoner Rifle. So, when he hooked up with ArmaLite the natural consequence of my thinking is that it became ArmaLite Rifle. Other makers were also producing firearms with the AR nomenclature, Beretta AR-70, for example. In those cases it is said to mean “automatic rifle”. But in the end, all that really matters is what it does NOT stand for…and we all agree on that one.
Ranger: Sorry ’bout that. Sometimes it just pops out!
Bubba: I sincerely apologize if that came across as insulting or demeaning in any way. I assure you that was far from my intent. Your experience with the gun will forever outweigh mine, and I cannot express enough gratitude for your service and protection of our country and the Constitution we are so direly trying to preserve.
My intent was, really, to get that letter out there. I have heard conflicting ideology from both sides of this issue on where the military will stand. I think this does a clear job of answering that, and does so in a very thorough and well written manner. Sharing it with people on both sides of this debate would, I think, help tremendously.
You are above and beyond correct with your last sentence there, too. I am curious as to whether Beretta would have used “AR” as a name with permission from Armalite or as a tribute to the Armalite style?
#7 John, that post proves my point. Other than a couple of years in the Army, the federal government hasn’t given me jack, and your insult does, indeed, show your ignorance. Another “sore loser” post, I’ll file it where it belongs.
Bubba, agree with Ranger, your remark about the Kimber was a gratuitous slap at folks who see things a different way. I didn’t take it personally, or even seriously, but it did get me to respond. Glad you made it back home from the mud hole, them was tumultuous times, indeed.
I lied. GI Bill got me through Tech. I gladly took that “handout”.
Anybody see the picture of Obama shooting skeet with an O/U? I’ll bet Dan Casey and his tree hugging, smart car driving clan, got their organic cotton panties in a bunch over that one. Mark, for your sake I hope you work at an opposite end of the building from him.
RJ: No apology necessary. Freedom of expression is part of what this thing was and still is, all about. And I cannot tell you what your expression of gratitude means. I don’t make it a practice of telling things like that but it seemed to fit at the moment. I can probably count on one hand the number of people who have ever extended an expression of appreciation so rest assured you rank pretty high in my book and you have made my day. Your point on the AR is totally valid and honestly I only have mine based on my experiences but the AR as in ARmaLite has a lot of supporters. As to Beretta’s use of “AR” it hard to tell. I’m not sure but I think the AR-70 was a later production…maybe mid 1970′s. And then there have been periods where ArmaLite was defunct and ownership was kicked around among a nunber of corporations. Don’t know how that may have played in the picture. Of course I also suppose that while “Armalite” may be a registered name the “AR” designation may not have been OR even if so, permission to use it could have been obtained (and paid for) by another company. Finally, I also think when Beretta introduced that model they specifically connected the AR designation to the term “automatic rifle” and as such they may have avoided a potential dispute with ArmaLite. Of course at the time I suspect Beretta was totally an Italian company with ArmaLite being a US company. I have no idea how international rights to use the designation might be structured. Pretty complex picture in some ways but mighty fine firearms that for sure.
Hey Clay, what is the name of the gun club in your area? I am interested in joining one. And Yes Go Hokies and 49ers!!!
Thanks–Very good article. When I served: The M-1 used a “clip” the M-14 used a “magazine”.
For folks focused on “rapic fire” one might reflect that Oswald used a WW-1 bolt-action rifle and fired 3 rounds in 3 seconds.
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http://roanokeslant.blogspot.com/2013/02/roanoke-times-biased-and-false-gun-data.html
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Mark does a good job.
I shouldn’t be surprised, but I am, that some comments seem to drift towards the bashing of our administration, other writers, the left, etc. What these have to do with firearms education, I have no idea!
LB, 3 seconds? Where the heck did you get that number? 8.3 seconds maybe.
Stephen,
Last I checked it was the liberal left including the president that are going after guns… Pretty simple to see what that has to do with firearm education since the whole point of the article was to dispel the the BS that the LIBERAL LEFT is putting out there right now.
Keep Feinstein in her cage and we won’t need to bash the left.
Fair enough Scott. Feinstein goes back in her cage if Lapierre returns to his cave. Seem like a sensible arrangement to me. I yearn for some middle ground with understanding.
The term Liberal Left always makes me chuckle – trope from the Department of Redundancy Department.
LB Hagen,
The model rifle that Oswald used was actually a WW2 era rifle manufactured in 1940 that was a shorter version of a pre 1938 Italian infantry rifle. I knew an older gentleman that had one of these rifles and it was a really cool looking gun. Just wanted to give some clarification on the year the gun was manufactured.
Thanks Mark, Great info !
Thanks, Stephen, once again for the voice of reason. Terms like “the” liberal left or “those types” demonize the opposition, a favorite extremist tactic that turns off more moderate folks. That goes both ways. The old saw about the eagle not being able to fly with just one wing is more appropriate now than ever before. I know a lot of people, from both sides of the political aisle, rightests who have never owned firearms, leftists who always have. I have said before, this argument has more to do with culture than politics, in my opinion. Rural folks include Democrats with guns, city folk include Republicans who’ve never used one, but to lump all of either side as the enemy is a mistake when honest dialogue is truely sought.
Mark, I also think you did a good job on the primer. Now, however, I need to read your “urine chronicles” to get dialed in on your other writing. Loved your tongue in cheek Deer Antler Spray spoof.
Thanks, Perch. My mother-in-law was reading yesterday’s column on deer antler spray and said, “It must have taken you a long time to find all of these products.”
This year’s “Scents and Lures” preview was a real page-turner, I tell ya. I mean, how can it not be with passages such as this one?: “The Scent Maker Kit from Vapor Trail Scents provides hunters will all of the tools required to formulate their own scent products. The kit includes containers and accessories needed for harvesting, mixing and storing urine, as well as detailed instructions.”
Perch, it is that Hokie training that is responsible for your clear vision.
If you or others truly get our pal Mark dialed in by reading his chronicles, please let me know. As he said, he is not easy to define. He is an enigma; I like that.
Stephen and Perch,
The term is not redundant. There is the Liberal Left, Moderate Left, Centrists, Moderate Right, and Tea Party / Right Wing Nut Jobs.
I myself am between Moderate Right and RWNJ. I don’t agree with the crazies that say stuff like “Legitimate Rape” and so forth, but there are many issues considered moderate that I won’t compromise on.
The Democratic Party by and large is WAAAAAYYYY out on that Left Wing right now. I agree there needs to be some tax concessions and moderate immigration reform, but the Dems are not even remotely seeking middle ground. Of course the GOP is going to not find middle ground when the Dem proposals are freaking out there.
Back on Topic, this gun grab is gonna hurt in the mid-terms. Libs messed this thing up. If they had waited until 2015, they likely would have taken the house and had 2 years to run wild. That’s not happening now.
I’m starting to feel like the grab is going to lose momentum. It might honestly just be a test-run to check how liberal the American populace is right now after a pretty hard beating in the election. I think it will die down by the end of spring and I can finally get my hands on an M&P15T and an XDm 9. I went to Bass Pro 2 weeks ago and their handgun counter was empty…
To Ken 86,
The gun club is United Sportsmen Inc. in Concord CA
http://www.unitedsportsmen.com
Sorry, I just saw your post.
Mark, that’s really cool, the Make a Scent deal. My wife won’t even let me keep my fishing lure scents in the house, wonder how the Doe in Heat manufacturing process would go over? Can I blame it on you?
Scott, I would suggest that “the” Dems (as if we were all alike) seem to be the only ones left that ever seek compromise or middle ground. Seems like much of the Repub. party has gotten further and further right. Moderates are now considered too liberal by many of the higher profile Repubs. As for not being able to buy particular handguns and ammo, I would suggest that is a simple supply and demand problem created by paranoid reactions fueled by the industry shills, like the radical NRA. Brilliant marketing strategy, but there ya go.
Middle ground, reasonableness, compromise, I feel like I’m listening to an Obama speech. All I see is a man trying to create a database of guns to tax and eventually confiscate.
I don’t make anywhere near the ballpark of $250,000 a year and my paycheck shrunk on January 1 because he raised taxes on the middle class (something he said he wouldn’t do). Obamacare will cost me a 13% increase in health insurance premiums this year alone – he said it would save everyone money. So why would I believe a word he says now? Well, I don’t.
And my children? They get to go to these so called “gun free” zones to learn. Oh, but limiting magazine capacities will keep some lunatic from shooting them. Really??? I can’t believe people believe this stuff.
Scott: While we are seeing local shortages of many firearms and almost all common ammunition you can still purchase just about anything off the internet. Gunbroker.com has 84 listing for xd-m 9mm and two are in state. OK, so you have frieght and a fee to pay a local dealer but if you want it you can get it. I did notice quite a bit of common ammunition also today at Sportsmans WH so maybe that’s going to lighten up also. Clearly people have been stocking up far greater than using so gun rooms in homes must be pretty full.(I know mine is.) Shortages should lessen. And I do not see this fever of anti gun activity as any kind of “test”. Like the dems said a few years back, never waste the opportunity of a good crisis. They will take this as far as they can today. I hope I’m dead wrong, but I do not feel it will blow over. This “universal” check is almost a given. You want to sell a gun to your brother, you need to get the check. Want to have grand dads gun given to your son? Get a check.
The left has always wanted strong controls and they have done a good job of getting their message out to the “middle”. IMO, I always thought there was not a large “middle ground” or “undecided”. I tend to think I was wrong about that and I tend to think more people are lining up behind the notion of “reasonable controls”. Honestly, who can object to “reasonable controls”….well, given that nothing I have seen will actually help the situation, I for one can object but Mr. and Mrs. Undecided don’t see it that way. BTW, how many of you gun guys and gals have bothered to contact your congressman or senator? Very few, I’d say. Go over to Casey’s blog and ask how many lefties have done so in support of tighter controls. Bet it would be a different story. The left has the control they have because the get off their butts and act. We gun people sit back and think the NRA will do it for us no matter if we don’t even belong.
Perch: “Compromise”! You have swallowed the load the left is spooning up for you. In today’s political world where the libs are essentially in control, compromise means that the Republicans should abandon their principals and give in to the demands of the left. I think the healthcare plan represents this reality as good as anything. Give me one example of any part of the AHCA which was structured by the Republicans. And don’t forget how they one Republican senator from Neb (?) came over to “compromise” in exchange for future exemptions for his state in medicare increases. That’s called bribery in my book.
Bubba, it ain’t compromise if only one side moves. Doesn’t matter which side you stand on, compromise means you have to give to get.
As for health care, we have what we got because perhaps the best deal was off the table because of Republican manufactured and fueled fear of the idea of a single payer system. This is a larger issue that has pros and cons on both sides. Ask ten doctors what they think about it, I have done so, and you’ll hear ten different takes on either side of the issue. In the long run, all concerned knew that the health care system was broken and threatening to ruin our economy. I don’t like the outcome either, but it was time somebody got off their do-nothing, say NO to everything butts and did SOMEthing. If Repubs had engaged instead of trying to reach their stated goal of shutting everything Obama down, perhaps we could have had a better outcome. If you don’t like what’s coming out of the kitchen, get in there and help cook. If you don’t want to do that, you have little reason to gripe about the result.
Bribery in government? What’s new?
When it comes to guns, I think there is a great middle ground out there. In between the entrenched whackos on both sides, people are struggling to figure out how to go about making things better in the arena dubbed “gun violence”. Engaging those people, informing them when necessary, and actually listening to what they are saying seems to me a better tactic than just bashing a popular president and more than half of the country in the process. People want to live in a civilized society. Morgan’s a whacko, and Ted Nugent, while immensely entertaining and glib, is not very “civilized” and is unlikely to win kudos from anyone but the choir he’s preaching to.
So y’all go ahead and rant and rave and rail against “the” libs, “the” dems and President Obama (gonna get your guns, boogity boogity boogity!!) and stroke each other’s opinions, stoke each other’s fires. I just don’t think it’s going to help out in the present discussion. Could that be why Mark welcomes the dialogue, as opposed to the monologue you would seem to prefer?
Well said Perch! And Bubba Greene, the entire idea for the ACA was straight from the GOP Playbook and the Heritage Foundation from back in the “Hillarycare” days and it is very much like the “Romneycare” in Massachusetts. Also there were GOP provision IN the ACA as passed.
http://www.americasfairhealthcare.org/blog/entry/fact-check-how-the-health-care-law-was-made/
It might behoove you to notice that there are no longer enough right wingers to win the White House for a reason. You need those liberal and Democratic gun owners agreeing with you too. Just sayin’
Perch: Here is the thing with “compromise”. If I want a new Colt SP-1 and the current market says I will need to pay $2000. But the dealer who is offering it is asking $3000 a compromise might be $2500. However, if the dealer is asking $6000 his concept of a “compromise” might be to offer and accept $4000. He moves down $2000 and I move up $2000. A perfect example of splitting the difference or meeting in the middle. Neither one gets what they wanted but in the end a deal is made. I come up some he comes down some and everyone is happy, right?
NO! I cannot compromise when the other party is so extreme in their expectations. And he feels the same way about me. “Half way” is totally unacceptable from either point of view. The key to striking a compromise is for both parties to have realistic positions in the first place.
(See note 1.)
When the left (aka LIBS) want to ban an S&W or Springfield 22 cal long rifle with a pistol grip calling it a military weapon or a Ruger Mini 14, for example, what exactly is the difference in that from a Ruger model 10-22 or some of the other hunting guns noted in Taylor’s blog? And there are countless other totally unreasonable analogies. Same goes for the 30 round “assault” magazine. That one has been beat to death. So, my side knows these steps are not only unreasonable but more importantly they won’t affect the criminals behavior. And your side wants to show how responsive you are to all Americans in “getting something done”. Getting of their “do nothing butt” as you say, even if what you “do” does nothing. There is no place for compromise. Most of those who cry for and support gun controls are too radical, too extreme and too unreasonable. You are asking $10,000 for your Colt SP-1 and the market clearly shows the going value is $2,000.
Note 1: In most matters of today’s politics including gun control, health care, taxation, social programs, welfare, and immigration and on and on. The left holds the unreasonable extreme. In fact, we on the right have consented to your views thinking you were only hurting yourself and as long as it was limited to that, why should we care? Well, I think those extreme views have inflicted decay upon society far beyond just hurting yourselves. You are guilty of hurting me and I have no room for compromise. I will not compromise and I will work to see no compromise is considered until your side gets real in their approach.
Thanks for your well explained response, Bubba, you always take time to explain your position, do it well, and I respect that. Unfortunately, it also illustrates the problem in politics today. I’m right and you’re wrong and if we do it your way, it’ll all just go to hell in a handbasket, so take your opinion, your position and hit the road Jack, ’cause it’s my way or the highway. You use the word “know” where you should be using the word “believe”, but, like religion, your cause will accept no dogma but your own. Your position is right, everyone else’s is wrong. I get it. I never thought there really was a common ground with folks who think like that, but it was worth a shot. My beliefs have sometimes changed in my life with what I have learned in life, in travel, in reading. My momma, also a veteran, told me that consistency is the hobgoblin of a small mind. My dad was a Navy lifer, and became one of the most tolerant people I have ever met. I am a veteran…I pay my taxes and I vote. I have earned the right to my beliefs and opinions like I assume you have, so right here, right now, I just say that we’ll agree to disagree, because I see my views as moderate and some of yours as harmfully extreme and dismissive. I am not guilty of hurting you and resent the anti-American sentiment you express. If you are so easily blindered by your fervor as to be able to ignore the million or so firearm deaths in the last forty or so years as not hurting someone just because you are so right, then I would consider you as much more dangerous than little ole me who just doesn’t agree with your take and votes otherwise. I promise, Bubba, I will argue with you no more, forever, but I will likely be cancelling out your vote with mine, every time
Period.
Perch: That’s one of the real problems with these blogs. We don’e get to see the voice, the eye and the tones. Facial expressions are missing. What may be written and taken as a statement is thought as a question. Depth of conviction is never certain. Human nature seems to require that you catagorize me as I do you. Truth is that you will not change your mind based on my comments nor will I alter my views base on yours. You see your views as “moderate” but mine are “extreme”, a fact which you admit. Discussion falls to the level of “argument”. And someone ends the dialogue with a “period”.
In the total world of “politics” lets put everyone in two groups. Let’s also presume that the number of people in either group has nothing to do with the standard of “correct” or “incorrect”. Let’s define the extreme left as “9 o’clock” and the extreme right as “3 o’clock” and the middle/moderate is at “12 o’clock”. I think the official “party line” of the rigt is about at 1 o’clock. I think the official party line of the left is at about 2:30.
Oh well, so much for politics. After all this is a sporting blog. So whattaya think of this?
http://www.infowars.com/dhs-purchases-21-6-million-more-rounds-of-ammunition/
CORRECTION: Make that the “official party line of the left is about 9:30″!
I believe more guns are the answer. We should get rid of gun free zones and we should put armed guards in schools. I believe that the problem with the current back ground checks is that the Democrats refuse to repeal portions of the HIPPA Act that keep mental health records from being reported. So Perch, where is my compromise? Or am I, under your judgment, an extremist to be dismissed but you’re position is a self professed “reasonable” one. Just wondering?
I’ll look there, Bubba, but the “period” was no more than a correction to the previous comment where I had left off the period at the end of my sentence. Sorry, looking back, it would have been better without the punctuation addition. Set a bad tone, but not my intention.
Clint, I agree with you that “the” Dems aren’t always right on everything. Never said, or thought, they were. Either way, mental health issues are problematical and demand attention.
No matter what time it is, it is time to wake up and get serious about gun violence. If your only suggestion is more guns, I feel like you may be missing the point. If you think there is no problem, then you are part of the problem, I believe.
Clint: Perch has apparently decided to take his ball and go home. Actually, I have engaged him on a few other threads and he’s not all that unreasonable. Probably a pretty good guy. He’s probably like a lot of, if not most of, the citizens “in the middle”. We all feel for innocent people killed anywhere and everywhere by any manner. And when “guns” are involved, the reason those killings happened is due to the guns. So we ban the guns and stop the killing. It’s all so perfectly clear. But I, and maybe you too, know the cause is not guns, but the criminal animal mentality of so many in society today. And I THINK I know a couple reasons for that as well. A gun ban will only disarm the good guys while the bad guys keep their guns. And then, with the help of publically available data on gun owners, such as the RT’s tried a few years back and one NY paper also did recently, the criminals can come steal ours and use them to inflict more terror on society. Isn’t it so odd that the places with the tightest gun laws are the places with the most crime! If bans worked we should really start with a ban on drunk driving. Way more people are killed by that than by guns.
But on a lighter note, here may be something we can use against the mugger when he come from the shadows of the parking garage.
It does help to be able to read “Russian” but if you cannot, just click around and you’ll figure it out pretty easily. I got a 25 in 8 seconds!
http://deti.mil.by/templates/swf/Pistol/index.swf
I’m betting if we put Perch and Bubba in the same room they’d hit it off, but good. Wouldn’t leave that night agreeing with each other on everything, but that’s not the point!
You said it well Bubba. I have school aged children and I worry a lot about this new fad for these mentally ill young men in their late teens, early twenties to go on these mass shooting sprees. Sandy Hook is a tragedy that can’t even be put into words. Guns are the easy target, so that’s what “the middle” agrees to ban at the urge of the left, who are simply being politically opportunistic. However, the biggest tragedy is that no one ever wants to address the root of the problems in our society today that cause these shootings. So, I’m afraid that you and I will have less gun rights in a few months and my children will be even less safe in their schools, because we all know criminals and lunatics don’t follow laws and experience shows that they target gun free zones.
As for Perch, I’m sure he’s a fine person. Most of the regulars on here share a common interest of enjoying the outdoors. I was just trying to test his theory on being reasonable and compromising. You see, I imagine he only wants to compromise on restricting guns. And of course when it doesn’t work (because it won’t) and we have another shooting 6 months later, he will be saying that we didn’t do enough and we need more reasonable compromise. It’s political speak for do what I want and go along with the crowd.
Actually, I have never called for a ban on anything. I have questions about some of the ideas being bandied about and have gotten some cogent information from folks on this blog. Clint, I clearly pointed out that I do not agree with everything the Democratic party says or does. The reason I consider myself a Democrat is that despite my dissatisfaction with some of it’s tenets and goals it still suits my larger philosophy more than the other side, and any third party effort is incapable of being politically viable at this point in history.
Bubba, promised I wouldn’t “argue” with you anymore because I know it is counterproductive and wish politics hadn’t been brought up in the first place, but it was and I reacted. Mark Taylor knows me and I assume he knows enough about you to say what he said. I agree with him and I am sure that I’d be buying you adult beverages and enjoying the “face to face” where tone and conviction are much more easily discerned than in the black and white, one-way monologues we have here. Believe me, I have spent hours in boats and afield with a lot of “right wingers” and before we veer into the political realm, we find a boatload of common ground.
Yeah, I am disengaging from the fray for now, but I certainly didn’t take the ball. It’s Mark’s ball anyway, and I definitely left it for you to play with yourselves. Like Jimmy said, “got to stop bitchin’, time to go fishin’”!!
BTW, Mark, the firearm you desire, pictured above, is now (will soon be)illegal in NY. It has one of the three potential features which define it as an assault weapon. A pistol grip! Totally amazing. That, along with a flash suppressor or a folding stock is all it takes. (Any 1 of those 3 features.) BTW, on my 1886 Winchester 38-40 there is a feature called a “pistol grip” behind the trigger which is part of the wooden stock. Wonder it that one is banned as well?
For those who are not familiar with the nature of the NY ban check out the link below. No more purchases of these firearms, need to register, face criminal charges, no more over 10 round magazines, background checks for ammunition purchases, private sales of grand dads Model 12 need a background check….and on and on.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2013/01/details_about_new_yorks_new_gu.html
This is the picture of what a state administration with legislative support can do even though it is questionable what kind of public support exists for the measure. This pretty much also defines the current federal picture. While there are some positive intentions the law is completely going to prove to be ineffective.
This is also what the consequences of turning away from the issue brings, so I’m going to keep on bitchen’ and hope other do as well. It is essentially impossible to have much discussion on “guns” today without also talking politics.
Clint: Your fears are completely justified but just think. If you lived in NY they would not be as NY has banned possession of firearms at schools and in the bus as well. No more crime in NY schools!
Bubber, I am disengaging because I am tired of trying to keep up with all the blogs. We’ve said all we are going to need to say for now, so I am hoping to actually get out of the house as spring approaches to do what I love.
Just to let you know, I am in agreement with you over any ban on assault type weapons. Misguided, political posturing, yes. An attempt to disarm the citizenry? Nah, I don’t believe so. Why anyone wants one, I don’t really understand, except to play with them, but like you said before, that ain’t none of my business to say what you can have. Really, bye for now.
Perch: Hope you enjoy(ed) your time away but we both know this blogging thing tends to be a tad compulsive and addicting esp when it is not combat blogging. I am however puzzled. Apparently you see all the “ban” talk as misguided political posturing. That it is. But to deny it as an effort to disarm people! That is EXACTLY what they want to do. Can you really look at the laws in Chicago and NY and not see that? After the grace period of a mandated registration your “AR” will be taken and you will face charges for just having it in NY. You cannot “sell” it even to a family member without a check. The purchase of ammunition will also require a check. Do you actually listen to Bloomberg? NOW, I’ll admit that actually effecting disarmining the public would not be easy BUT, it has been done in other countries in recent and times past and if some people don’t stand up now, we may find it’s too late at some point in the future. As I have said so often, it’s not the next step, it’s where the path leads.