A couple of days ago I got an e-mail from a reader of this blog who wondered why his comment on my entry "More Thoughts on Sunday Hunting" hadn't been posted. I had no good answer. For some reason his original post had disappeared into oblivion. Fortunately, he still had the original and was able to resend it.
"B Patrick" clearly put a lot of time into this post, which may be the best-written comment I've ever seen in support of Sunday hunting. (If he had written that eloquently in support of the ban I would have given him the same compliment.)
Rather than post it as a comment now on a topic that's already week old, where it won't get the reads it deserves, I'm going to run this as an entry.
Again, the words below aren't mine. They're from "B Patrick."
"The majority of hunters will agree that the biggest obstacle to hunting, and the biggest obstacle to recruiting new hunters, is lack of access and opportunity to hunt. By restricting Sunday hunting, states are not only limiting opportunities for today’s hunters but are making it harder to recruit new hunters to carry on our proud heritage. Anti-hunting groups understand this, that’s why they oppose lifting Sunday hunting bans--they don’t want a new generation of hunters to enter the field. This opposition to Sunday hunting is in fact opposition to the future of hunting itself.
Restrictions on Sunday hunting treat hunters as second-class citizens. Other outdoor activities are allowed on Sunday, including fishing, hiking and golf. By restricting hunting and not other activities, state governments are sending a not so subtle message to hunters and non-hunters alike that there is something wrong with hunting, that it isn’t as legitimate an activity. This message ignores the fact that hunters contribute billions of dollars to the benefit of wildlife, both through license fees and excise taxes paid on firearms and ammunition.
There are compelling reasons why Sunday hunting should be allowed:
Sunday hunting has no detrimental effect on wildlife populations. The 43 states that allow some form of Sunday hunting have healthy wildlife populations in those areas that can sustain them. In fact the states with the most abundant game populations allow Sunday hunting. Those states that have recently removed prohibitions on Sunday hunting have not seen a negative impact on game populations. Allowing Sunday hunting will give state wildlife agencies more flexibility in managing populations. The extra day a week for hunting will give the agencies the ability to increase hunting in areas of overpopulation by encouraging hunters to go afield."
"The most common reason that hunters stop hunting is lack of hunting opportunity. Hunting opportunities are largely decided by two factors: accessible land and available time. Since most hunters work Monday through Friday, a ban on Sunday hunting cuts their available hunting time in half.
Sunday hunting is an excellent way to recruit new hunters. Many young people have school or athletic obligations on Saturday. Allowing Sunday hunting means that parents can spend time hunting with their son or daughter, passing on a heritage that is so important to America. With the myriad of activities that compete for the attention of young people today, a restriction on Sunday hunting means many of them never take up the sport.
Sunday hunting will bring an economic benefit to many rural areas. Every day that hunters are in the field, they spend money on gas, food, lodging and the dozens of other incidentals that go along with a day’s hunt. The ripple effect of this spending can have a major impact on a rural town or county.
Out-of-state license revenue can grow as a result of Sunday hunting. Few hunters will take extended hunting trips to a state that won’t let them hunt one day of the week. These out-of-state hunters pay higher license fees that benefit the game department and also spend even more money on incidentals than in-state hunters.
Current Sunday hunting bans:
Currently seven states entirely prohibit hunting on Sunday for wild game; they are Delaware, Maine, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Virginia, New Jersey and Connecticut. All of these states have considered legislation to lift the bans in recent years. Repealing the Sunday hunting bans has been actively supported by the wildlife agencies in Maine and New Jersey.
Four states allow limited Sunday hunting: Maryland allows hunting on two Sundays during deer season; South Carolina allows Sunday hunting on private land only; North Carolina allows Sunday hunting on some federal installations; in 2001 West Virginia enacted legislation that allows Sunday hunting on private land, but each county can hold a referendum to ban Sunday hunting; currently 14 counties allow it.
Recently several states have recognized the folly of Sunday hunting bans:
New York: In 1996 New York opened Sunday hunting on three Sundays during deer season. Within five years the law was changed to allow all Sunday hunting, except on specifically designated lands.
Ohio: In 1998 Ohio passed a bill allowing a test of Sunday hunting on public lands for a period of three years. In 2002 the legislature made Sunday hunting permanent without opposition from groups that had concerns when the test began. The state wildlife agency supported the change.
Michigan: Sunday hunting was banned on private land in certain counties, but in 2003, all Sunday hunting closures were repealed. The bill was supported by the state wildlife agency.
None of these states have experienced the horror stories forecast by opponents of hunting. The states continue to have healthy wildlife populations. Hunters continue to behave in a responsible and safe manner. Church attendance remains unchanged. Landowner-hunter conflicts have not increased. In sum, Sunday hunting has had nothing but a beneficial impact on these states and the future of hunting in them.
There have been various arguments offered in support of maintaining the Ban on No Sunday Hunting in Virginia. I wish to supply counter arguments to repeal the Ban.
Argument: If Sunday hunting were allowed, fathers/mothers would spend less time with their families. I.E. Deer season widows.
1) The state has no place in dictating “family time”. This is a personal issue.
2) This Ban does not forbid: Golf, Fishing, NASCAR, NBA, NFL, NHL, or any other “past-time” that could take place on Sunday, thus taking a family member away from “family time”.
Argument: I want to go to church on Sunday. Sunday is a day of rest.
1) Repeal of this Ban would not keep anyone from attending church.
2) The state has no place enforcing/supporting the doctrine of any religion
Argument: Church services would be disturbed or attendance would go down.
1) People attend church on Wednesdays (a legal hunting day) and there has been no conflict.
2) Other states that allow Sunday hunting have not encountered this problem.
3) Religions other than Christianity, which have services on Fridays and Saturdays (legal hunting days), have not encountered this problem.
4) There could be “archery only” zones near places of worship or restricted zones surrounding them.
5) The state has no place ensuring church attendance.
Argument: Farmers and landowners would be forced to allow Sunday hunting on private property.
1) Farmers or landowners can dictate what activities can or cannot be conducted on their property. They simply can write “No Sunday Hunting” into their permission contracts if they so wish. It is law that hunters must carry written permission to hunt private land already.
Argument: It has always been this way.
1) Tradition is not a valid reason for denying a liberty or privilege.
2) It is one, if not the last, of the Blue Laws on the books.
Argument: Deer need a day to rest from the pressure of hunting.
1) There is no valid evidence from other states, that allow Sunday hunting, that the deer are “over-pressured”.
2) Deer are unaware of the days of the week. So they do not ‘know’ that this day is ‘safer’ than any other.
3) Many hunters go out on Sunday to scout, check their stands, cameras and/or feeders. The deer are not aware that the hunters are unarmed.
4) Although there is no study to site for the effects of Sunday hunting in Virginia, conclusions can be drawn from the data in other states.
5) There is light pressure from hunting during the week because many, if not most, hunters work during the week.
Argument: There will be an over-harvest of deer.
1) Although there is no study to site for the effects of Sunday hunting in Virginia, conclusions can be drawn from the data in other states. There has not been a negative effect on the deer herd in these states.
2) Few Virginia hunters fill all of their tags. The Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries set the limit of 6 deer per season. An increase in harvest should not drastically effect the herd population based on the present limit.
Argument: We don’t have the money to pay for extra Wardens.
1) Wardens are working on Sundays already. As a whole, they do not get Sundays off any time of the year.
2) We have, in place now, a phone and Internet check-in service. There would not be an increased workload since Sunday check-in is already available.
Argument: I want to walk in the woods on Sunday.
1) If you own your property, do not allow Sunday hunting.
2) There is no hunting in State Parks.
Argument: What good will it do?
1) Opening Sunday for hunting would allow ‘working’ hunters more opportunities to take game. Especially if Saturday is effected by inclement weather or family obligations take precedent.
2) Allowing Sunday hunting would increase the chances of hunters to supply more meat for their families, thus saving them money by extending their food budgets.
3) There would be more use of expendable goods: gasoline, scents, restaurants, and ammunition.
4) There would be increased income to Hunting Preserves and Guides.
5) There would be an increase in out-of-state hunters. This would provide increased income to local economies (Preserves, guides, hotels, gasoline, and restaurants) as well as to the VDGIF by way of an increased number of out-of-state licenses.
6) Increased income for game processors.
7) Opening Sunday to hunting will allow children who have Saturday school or extracurricular activities (football, soccer, and clubs) to hunt. They would not have to choose between the two.
Opening Sunday to hunting would allow hunters more time to enjoy participating in a way of life that many hold dear.
I would like to point out that this issue is not a “deer hunting” only issue. Although deer hunting is often the example argued. There are other game animals in the state."
Comments
[January 19, 2007 6:42 PM]
Allen LazenbyThis person deserves a big old pat on the back and he can be my spokes person anytime. I think he just spoke for 99% of outdoorsman and hunters. Man i hope he goes to the meeting.....THANK YOU,THANK YOU,THANK YOU
[January 20, 2007 10:19 AM]
Butch AmmonWow.... The person that wrote that needs to be commended. It was perfect and said everything that needed to be said, complete with proven facts.
EXCELLENT!!!!
Butch Ammon
[January 20, 2007 3:43 PM]
gene wallaceDid he ever hit the nail on the head about Sunday hunting....way to go..he really has his act together...
[January 21, 2007 7:50 AM]
DANNY AYERSGREAT ARTICLE: THIS WOULD GRATELY INCREASE OUR TIME IN THE SPRING TURKEY SEASON. THANKS FOR THE POSTING OF THIS ARTICLE AGAIN.
[January 21, 2007 5:22 PM]
B. Lee PembertonAside from the fact that "B. Patrick" is obviously not a churchgoer and is possibly anti-Christian, and the fact that Virginia does not need to draw in any out-of State hunters, the rest of his reasons are very specious -in that none proves a case that Sunday hunting is either necessary or desirable. I have hunted since I was 10, a little more than 60 years ago; there is virtually no place to hunt already, and Sunday hunting will only make matters worse. Leave it alone: we need the State out of our lives, not in deeper!
[January 21, 2007 7:29 PM]
Mark TaylorCalling a strong supporter of Sunday hunting "obviously" not a churchgoer and "possibly anti-Christian," then saying that the state needs to stay out of our lives by maintaining the ban on Sunday hunting....
...I'm guessing this won't be the final comment on this thread.
[January 22, 2007 10:31 AM]
John LawsonYou guessed right Mark. I saw nothing in B Patrick's letter that led me to believe the he was not a churchgoer or anti-christian.I thought it was a well thought out and well written letter. I support repealing the ban on Sunday hunting and I am a churchgoer and a christian. It is my choice whether to go to church on Sunday or not and it should be my choice if I want to hunt on Sunday or not. To my knowledge, there are no other such Sunday activity bans. As B Patrick stated, a landowner may restrict Sunday hunting on their property if he/she so chooses. I don't see any possible conflicts there. Where in the heck is the ACLU when you need them? They should be all over this for separation of church and state. :)
[January 22, 2007 11:23 AM]
Jimmy PikeI wish he could present this to the GA. Excellent letter.
[January 22, 2007 12:00 PM]
Butch AmmonWhoa, whoa, whoa, B. Lee Pemberton, easy does it...
I am not in defense of B. Patrick, but I fully support his comments.
Calling someone a non-churchgoer and possibly anti-christian, is a bit out of line.
I am one of the leading advocates for Sunday hunting, and I belong to Welborne United Methodist Church here in Richmond, VA! Are you going to say the same to me?
Sunday hunting should be all about choice. A person should have the choice if they want to go hunting on Sunday.
Remember the recent DGIF survey where they found 62% supported Sunday hunting versus 34%. That right there speaks volumes.
Butch Ammon Richmond, VA
[January 22, 2007 2:16 PM]
B. PatrickB. Lee Pemberton,
Calling me a non-churchgoer and possibly anti-christian is an insult and I take extreme offense to that. You don't know me from Adam. I am a firm believer in all that was posted and all that I said. Regardless of whether or not a person does or doesn't go to church is irrelevant. The fact remains that hunting is the ony recreational activity that is illegal to participate in on Sunday. I think it is high time the folks of the Commonwealth of Virginia see that. If not, then I will sugguest to you, as I have done with every member of the House of Delegates committee on Agriculture and Natural Resources, to make all recreational activity illegal. In my opinion it is recreational discrimination. Everyone that bird watches or trail rides or hikes in the WMA's and anywhere on PUBLIC land should thank their lucky starts for the hunters and fishermen in this Comonwealth. If it were not for us you'd have to pay to do those things or GOD forbid there would be no public land for you to complain about relinquising 10 days a year to hunters. So I would suggest that the next time you see a hunter or a fisherman, you stop and say thank you for the things that we provide for you.
[January 22, 2007 7:47 PM]
Mark TaylorWell, the "good" news is that we'll have at least another year (and, I'm guessing, longer) to keep this fun debate going.
Based on what happened in a House subcommittee last week, both of this year's bills are probably going to get officially killed (or whatever they call it) this week.
Did anyone think those bills had a shot? I didn't.
Hunters are a small minority of Virginia's population. So even if 62 percent support Sunday hunting, that's a VERY small percentage of the population.
The effort still needs some serious, politically-connected, well-funded leadership. That's nothing against the efforts of guys such as Butch Ammon. But, as I wrote for my column in The Roanoke Times tomorrow, Sunday hunting isn't going to happen without the kind of campaign put together a few years ago to get that constituional amendment passed.
Even if that happens -- and if the DGIF's board decides it needs to pursue Sunday hunting, that leadership probably will materialize -- there's little doubt the folks who want the law to stay intact will also mobilize. And, as we've seen from some of these posts, they are no less passionate about their position.
[January 24, 2007 3:22 PM]
PeteIn follow-up to B Patrick's well-composed argument for Sunday hunting, copied below is the letter I wrote to show my representatives my support for repealing the Sunday hunting ban. I know the fate of this year's bills, but at least it is a start, and I would encourage any readers who feel likewise to act likewise. Any readers who may be interested in sending an email to their representatives can feel free to use my letter as a template, and they can locate their legislators' email addresses here on the Virginia State Board of Elections website: http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/cms/Voter_Information/Where_Do_I_Vote/Polling_Place_Lookup_request.asp My letter: Dear Delegate/Senator _____, As a constituent of yours and a resident of _____, I would like to voice my support for repealing the ban on Sunday hunting in Virginia. Virginia has long been a state with minimal government interference, but this is an unnecessary state impediment. Other than hunting, the state does not preclude any otherwise legal activities on Sundays, and I feel hunting should be no different. The VDGIF has said it would not adversely affect game populations, it is supported by hunters as noted in their latest survey, and landowners who do not support hunting (on Sunday or otherwise) are free not to permit it on their property, as they should be. I can foresee the main problem arising with those who do not own land and do not hunt wanting to recreate without hunters on Sundays during hunting season in places other than the Shenandoah National Park, or the many wonderful State Parks of Virginia that prohibit hunting; besides having 11 months of non-firearm (muzzleloader or gun) season (10 months East of the Blue Ridge - longer gun seasons) to recreate in the National Forest or on hunted private land, this is a period of 4 firearm-season Sundays West of the Blue Ridge Mountains (8 Sundays East of the Blue Ridge) that are in question. These few Sundays could either serve to DOUBLE the hunting time available for many working hunters like myself who only have weekends free (and along with that the youth whose only opportunity to hunt comes with working hunters), or they could be added to the 330-some other non firearm hunting days available for recreation. There is no valid argument to continue upholding this ridiculous blue law. There seems to be a simple answer to this dilemma, one that 43 other states have concluded: allow hunting on Sundays. Not doing so will continue to depress the hunting opportunities and likewise the number of hunters in Virginia, as has been the trend, and with that decline continues the declining license sales and funding for the VDGIF, and Virginia's game and non-game species and habitat. Thank you very much for your consideration. Sincerely, Peter Acker Harrisonburg, VA
[February 1, 2007 11:47 AM]
Bob KnightI have been a resident of VA for six years. I have lived in three other states; TN, GA and CO. As a dedicated hunter, my time spent in the outdoors is incredibly important to me. I was amazed, and discouraged, when I moved here and learned that VA law prohibited Sunday hunting. This law effectively cut my potential hunting time in half, and made traveling to places more distant than a hour's drive to hunt impractical. It has also restricted me from encouraging friends from out-of-state to join me to hunt in VA.
I was even more discouraged to discover that VA hunters were so divided amongst their own ranks regarding the issue. I am not a very political person, but I have followed the recent developments, added my name, and encouraged several others to sign, the petition. I've written my share of letters opposing this unfair, and unconstitional, imposition on law-abiding hunters. The recently introduced bills (HB1639 and HB2303) fell short of correcting this issue, but the attempts were at least headed in the right direction.
The fact that a large percentage (even though it's no longer a majority) of VA hunters still don't support this change is "killing" the momentum of political change. Everyone agrees that this is not a biological, or wildlife management issue. It is strictly a societal conflict. My personal opinion, and concern, is that hound hunting clubs (which have a strong influence in this state) are not supporting this change. It is also my observation, and opinion, that a large percentage of the non-hunting community also oppose Sunday hunting simply because they equate all hunting with the practice of using hounds (a highly visible and somewhat intimidating practice to the non-hunting public).
I strongly believe that Sunday hunting would not be as great a hurdle to overcome if deer and bear dogging was not part of the equation. I AM NOT AGAINST HUNTING WITH HOUNDS. Nor am I suggesting that laws be made to prohibit, or restrict, the practice. I am only suggesting that this is part of the difficulty of removing this absurd law from the books.
I believe this issue is a greater factor than that of mandating when, or how someone should worship. I truly enjoyed the comment one petitioner made when he or she posted "I'd rather be in the woods thinking about God, than be in church thinking about hunting". That really rang true with me, and I suspect many others. How one worships, and when, should not be part of the legislative process. I have to believe that most politicians agree with our constition regarding the separation of church and state. They are still faced with statistics, however, which include the concerns of the non-hunting public.
If my line of thinking is correct, overall opinion statistics would shift more towards accepting Sunday hunting if hound hunting clubs in VA universally and publicly agreed, on a voluntary basis, to allow only still-hunting on Sundays.
I trust logic and fairness will win in the long-run, and the Sunday no-hunting law will be abolished eventually. I just hope it's during my lifetime.
[February 1, 2007 1:48 PM]
Mark TaylorBob, you wrote: "I trust logic and fairness will win in the long-run, and the Sunday no-hunting law will be abolished eventually. I just hope it's during my lifetime."
To that, my only reply is: "I hope you're young."
[February 15, 2007 4:24 PM]
mike houchensPerhaps, Mr. B. Lee Pemberton should read a little Thomas Jefferson,especially the parts about religious freedom.
[November 13, 2007 5:17 PM]
Mark TaylorWhy a comment on this post so long after the fact? Because an astute reader just pointed out to me that these weren't actually B. Patrick's words. This was lifted from the NRA's Internet site. So B. Patrick didn't put much time and even less thought into them.
Plagerism -- it's easier than ever, but easier than ever to get caught.
Mark Taylor
[March 23, 2008 9:21 PM]
CJ Flay : →http://www.sundayhuntingnc.comGood point, some of this information came fron the NRA-ILA fact sheet. Which also shows the NRA, one of the largest organizations to support the sportsman, is in favor of Sunday Hunting. In contrast PETA is very Anti Sunday Hunting.
Just remember if you don't support Sunday Hunting you are furthuring PETA's agenda and hurting all hunting. You should send a donation to PETA or HSUS if you fight law abiding Sportsman who are trying get legislation passed to allow Sunday Hunting.
Support freedom of choice for the hunter support Sunday Hunting.