The Roanoke Times: The Wild Life

Comments

# 1

[January 28, 2008 9:42 PM]

Tony Rutherford

I am confident that I speak for the vast majority of Virginia's hunters. Lift the Sunday hunting ban completely. If rural churches are truly concerned about interference from hunters on Sunday, then enact laws that punish all people, hunters included, for disturbance of church activities. My concern is that chruches are more worried about attendance than disturbance. You never read anything, anywhere about hunters disturbing church services. Religious groups feared that churches would go broke when blue laws were repealed years ago. It didn't happen. It won't happen if hunting on Sunday becomes legal. Too many people have this vision in their heads. They see hunting as killing, it's not. They see hunting on Sunday as unchristian like behavior, it's not. Legalizing hunting on Sunday would only provide a choice. Some hunters will attend church and some Christians will hunt. Fishing is legal on Sunday. Does every fisherman in every church miss every Sunday service because the fish are biting? Nope! Allowing hunters to urban archery hunt Sundays may be a start. I wish the hunters would recognize and demonstrate their collective financial and voting power and instead of begging for the privilege to hunt, demand their right to do so. Hopefully, passage of this bill will be the start to unrestricted Sunday hunting rights. I wonder what the people would think if every activity was restricted on Sunday in the same manner as hunting is. Take away those rights and people would have a new appreciation for what the majority of Virginia's hunters want, equal right's.

Sincerely, Tony Rutherford Virginia Beach

# 2

[January 29, 2008 11:03 AM]

Mark Taylor

Thanks for the comments, Tony.

(FYI for readers, Tony has started a group called Hunters United for Sunday Hunting (HUSH). The Web site is under construction but for the time being he can be reached at VaSundayHunting@aol.com.)

I don't know if supporters of the Sunday hunting ban feel that way because they see hunting as killing. Well, some do. But those are the folks who oppose all hunting and I think we know that feeling is rarely based on religious beliefs.

If you can agree that hunting on Monday through Saturday is fundamentally OK, you can't say it's not OK on the seventh day.

I see two main camps of opponents: the church and so-called non-consumptive recreationsts (or their supporters) who fear conflict with hunters.

Some who oppose it on relegious grounds do so because they strongly believe we, for our own salvation's sake, need to be in church on Sundays. Yes, we already have plenty of other distractions/temptations. But why give us another one? This group includes plenty of hunters.

I also suspect some of the religious opposition stems from money concerns. As you mentioned, Tony, churches worried that repealing other so-called blue laws would create financial crises if/when regular churchgoers stopped going and stopped giving. The concern was and is understandable. Let's face it. If a guy is in his treestand and not the pew, he's not dropping his normal $20 (or whatever) in the plate.

On the other hand, who's to say he won't drop an extra $20 in the plate the next Sunday or Wednesday?

The church/religious issue is important, but as this debate evolves, I see the primary issue being conflicts -- perceived and/or actual -- with other user groups.

mt

# 3

[January 29, 2008 1:40 PM]

K.Harich

I am against Sunday hunting. It is the one day during the hunting season that it is safe to go into the woods. Even on my own property, where I don't permit hunting, it is common to have bullets flying, from adjacent properties. This is not simply "conflict" with hunters, it is a matter of life and death.

# 4

[January 29, 2008 4:59 PM]

Freddy : →http://www.vaturkey.com

Tony... I'm not sure that 53% constitutes "the vast majority of Virginia's hunters."

I'm against Sunday hunting here in VA along with many of my good friends and hunting companions. As a landowner and member of the Virginia Farm Bureau I stand behind their opposition of Sunday hunting.

I have time to hunt... I make that a priority in my life and if I can't take a Saturday to hunt I take vacation. I also spend plenty of time with my family, a lot of it in the outdoors. I make those things a priority.

People need to realize that there are a lot of people out there on the fence about hunting and shooting sports. Right now, we have a lot of those people that lean on our side of the fence as allies. Do we, as hunters, want to push those people to "the other side of the fence" for the sake of Sunday hunting? I don't!

# 5

[January 29, 2008 5:20 PM]

Tony

Mark there is opposition from a number of interest groups. Many of your reader's will be surprised to know that the Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance, the United Eastern Virginia Hunting Dog Association and the Virginia Deer Hunters Association either oppose lifting the current ban on Sunday hunting or don't support it. I have to believe, based on the recent hunter survey conducted by the DGIF, that the majority of the members of all these organizations strongly support Sunday hunting. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the respective members of these interest groups thought that these groups would lobby on behalf of membership for Sunday hunting. Mark, what we all have to appreciate is that if Sunday hunting were legalized we'd have a choice to hunt or not hunt. A person that would never hunt on Sunday for whatever reason would continue to have the right not to hunt. A person that would take advantage of Sunday hunting could do so. Take a close look, hunting in Virginia is already the most restricted legal activity. There is no other legal activity that has even remotely similar restrictions. Basically, Virginia's hunters have been socially discriminated against for years. I hope that hunters, non-hunters and anti-huters realize this kind of treatment is unconstitutional and needs to cease. There are thousands of acres of public land that offer no hunting access. Very little hunting activity takes place from January to September. The basis for continuing the ban on Sunday hunting is invalid and needs addressing.

Respectfully, Tony Rutherford Virginia Beach

# 6

[January 29, 2008 6:33 PM]

Alfie H

Tony, has HUSH printed up any bumper stickers about this,and if so where can a person get one. i'd put one on my truck.

# 7

[January 30, 2008 6:10 AM]

Mark Taylor

Thanks, everyone, for keeping the comments civil. That's not always easy when you're talking about a subject about which emotions run so high.

There are good people on both sides of this issue. As hunters it will be important that we don't let this debate split our ranks, and I really think we can debate this without that happening.

I'll be out in the field today so if you comment and don't see it up right away, that's because I won't be able to approve comments until this evening.

Thanks for reading.

mt

# 8

[January 30, 2008 9:03 AM]

Al Milton

Mark,

I am with Tony on the Sunday Hunting issue. As you know I have had the privilege to hunt in South Dakota. Hunting in the Western part of our country is a sacred as going to church.

I understand some of Freddy's concerns. Yes there is opposition to hunting, not just Sunday Hunting but any day of the week. This oppositoion will never change, no matter if we are allowed to hunt on Sunday or not. Hunting is one of my top ranked priorities. However some of the working class hunters only get Saturday off and have limited vacation days(one weeek). Some working class hunters do not get the opportunity to use vacation for hunting. I konw some hunters that get five weeks vacation but can only use one week for hunting.

As for the hound groups that are opposed to Sunday Hunting, they are fighting to keep their sport alive. Those who are opposed to hunting are even more opposed to hunting with any kind of dog, rabbit, bird, deer or bear. You attended the July DGIF Board meeting. You saw the turn out and heard dog hunters legitiment concrens. If you hunt with a dog you need to get envolved in this isssue. First bear and deer dogs, then bird and rabbit dogs, then hunting period. The hunting haters, hate the 2nd Amendment too.

Freddy you and your friends need to re-think your position on Sunday Hunting for the good of our sport. We are loosing hunters at an alarming rate. Our older hunters are dying out and our youth is not taking their place. If we give them more time to hunt maybe some will join our ranks.

Deer Hunting West of the Blue Ridge with a firearm would only effect 4 or 5 Sundays a year. A total different story East of the Blue Ridge,up to 10 Sundays a year. You can play golf or fish on any given Sunday of the Month, a total of 52 Sunday's per year.

Tony look for me to join your ranks! Mark thanks for keeping us informed on this important issue.

# 9

[January 30, 2008 11:23 AM]

TJ P

Ok,

Time to throw my two cents in here. I would love to see Sunday hunting legalized in VA. VA is one of only 5 or 6 states that don't allow Sunday Hunting.

As it stands, I tend to work a fairly intense week, vacation time is limited and free time is scarce. You have to figure with the average hunter getting older and the number of active hunters steadily declining we as a group would stop and ask why that is.

When I ask friends who used to hunt, I discover the reason they stop is mostly a lack of time. Saturday ends up being the only day of the week they can get out, and that limited opportunity is often taken up with family responsibilities.

Allowing Sunday hunting is a good way to ensure that those declining numbers of hunters start going up instead of down.

As for those against it, I'd like to see some real reasons why it should remain closed off.

Thanks for the consideration.

TJ

# 10

[January 30, 2008 4:54 PM]

Bob H

There is no ban on sighting in guns on Sundays or shooting. So if K. Harich owns land and adjoining properties are hunted, there is no more a safety factor with a Sunday ban as with Sunday hunting. Why not allow Sunday crossbow and bow hunting? Don't tell me arrows will be flinging past you also!

I have owned my own land to hunt on for 16 years. I have NEVER had bullets whizzing by in all that time.

But, in my opinion, as long as we have legislators who see Sunday as a "day of rest" for game we will always have elected representives who show how little they actually know about the wildlife that inhabits our state. What's next? A day of rest for the fish also?

There is no good reason to ban crossbow and bow hunting on Sundays, and little reason to ban gun hunting on private land.

Bob

# 11

[January 30, 2008 10:51 PM]

tony

K. Harich: I read your comments and have a hard time believing what you write. I have done lots of research related to hunting, hunting safety, hunting related injuries/fatalities. Statistical data exists supporting the fact that hunting is much safer than most other recreational activities. As far as the bullets flying from adjacent properties on a common basis. Have you reported this to your police department? Are you sure these bullets are from hunters? Shots from hunters tend to be from the shooters shoulder towards the ground. It would be uncommon for a hunter's bullet to travel very far in most forested areas. I strongly recommend that you report every incident where a bullet comes onto your property from adjacent property. Are you able to find the projectiles? Responsible hunters don't condone this type of activity. In fact, responsible hunters don't want these types to have hunting privilegs anymore than you do. Please report these incidents every time it happens.

# 12

[January 30, 2008 11:05 PM]

Tony

Freddy: Are you truly against Sunday hunting? Would you hunt Sunday if it were legal? If the Farn Bureau changed it's position on Sunday hunting would you hunt on Sunday? Or are you like so many others Freddy? You wouldn't hunt on Sunday so I don't want anybody else to. This is the greatest aspect of legalizing Sunday hunting Freddy: the family that could only hunt on Sunday has the opportunity to do so, and because you wouldn't hunt on Sunday nothing would change for you. Of course you would hunt on your next day off or vacation day. It really wouldn't effect you, would it? You sound like a fine Christian man.....would a fine Christian man oppose another man's happiness?

# 13

[January 31, 2008 8:00 AM]

Tony

Bob: Thanks for your comments. I sincerely hoped that K. Harich's situation with bullets coming unto the property was an isolated one. I've hunted on owned, permitted and leased lands for nearly forty years and have never experienced this. I've hunted in clubs during orgainized hunts where I could see other hunters and this has never happened. I hope that Harich recognizes that this situation is unusual. I hope they take my advice an get the authorities involved. This type of reckless gun handling may actually be from non-hunters. It may be unsupervised kids and teens. Unfortunately, whenever something like this happens, the finger of guilt is autmatically pointed at hunters. I welcome all of us to do a little research in the area of gun incidents. I found the data fascinating. I wasn't surprised that there are far more injuries caused by accidental discharge of a firearm during non-hunting activity than while hunting. It's unfortunate that anyone be injured or killed for any reason. This statement is not meant to make light any of those incidents. More people will be injured or die from accidental firearm discharge this year than from hunting related firearm discharge. The gun that someone purchased to protect them will sometimes actually kill them. Hunter safety is mandatory. I recommend that we have refresher courses every year. I'd suggest that a hunter be required to do a few hours of study and pass a test before they qualify for a license. Responsible hunters are just that. They are responsible in how they handle their weapon. They are responsible about how they treat and preserve the natural resources that they enjoy. They are responsible for every kill they make. For that reason I don't think that hunters are casting the bullets onto adjacent properties.

# 14

[January 31, 2008 9:25 AM]

Backlash

Freddy

There something to say when as hunters when we don't stick together. You have your very own honey hole "PRIVATE PROPERTY". WHEN OTHER HUNTERS MUST BE RELEGATED TO PUBLIC PROPERTY.

You can basically do as you please on your property with very little scrutiny of the watchful eye of the Game Warden. Yo can place a stand at your leisure you have a luxury most can't afford.

With your luxury your thumb your nose at the little guy for this afforded gift. Realize this if you may sooner or later you will need the average hunter in some capacity.

Unless you are really an animal rights person, but you will need us the average hunter to stand up for your rights as a responsible hunter/ landowner as your luxury property is treaded upon with new laws and taxes.

Understand this we will need to stick together or fail separately as a group and the real winners will be those against hunting.

We must take a stand together.

# 15

[January 31, 2008 9:39 AM]

TJ P

Bob,

You know, I would be willing to support something like Sunday Archery hunting, in lieu of nothing. However, how does Sunday differ from the rest of the week where I can use firearms or muzzleloaders during the appropriate season? It just throws another confusing layer of regulations on an over-regulated activity as it is.

The ban on Sunday hunting really doesn't make any sense. It's got to be one of the last of the "blue" laws that this state has, and one of the most annoying. Some of the arguments I hear in favor of the ban don't make any sense:

One argument I hear a lot of in favor of banning hunting on Sundays is that the game needs a "Day of Rest". There really isn't a lot of logic behind this as most game is hunted on Saturdays. They already have 6 days of realisitc rest. Changing that to 5 days does not hurt the wildlife.

"It's tradition" is another. This is one that really flumoxes me. No one is making hunters opposed to Sunday hunting go out into the woods or the fields. If it's a tradition for some hunters not to hunt on Sundays, what's stopping them from staying home? Why do they feel that it's necesssary to ban the right for others?

The VDGIF survey shows that a majority want hunting to be approved for Sundays. It's time to make that a reality.

TJ P

# 16

[January 31, 2008 9:44 AM]

kirk

rember to keep the sabbath holly we have 6 days to sin why sin on the sabbath.no sunday hunting!

# 17

[January 31, 2008 7:47 PM]

Mark Taylor

Thanks for the commments, everyone. Sorry for not getting them up sooner. Another busy day catching up after being out all day yesterday.

Again, I really want to stress how important it is to keep things cordial. Attacking someone's position is fine. That's debate. But let's not attack each other. No matter where we stand on Sunday hunting, we are allies in many more ways than not.

To clarify the numbers, the Virginia survey data showed that 62 percent of hunters favored lifting the ban while 34 percent favored keeping the ban in place.

I wouldn't call that a vast majority. (Speaking of vast majority, my previous editor once told me that the term vast majority was redundant and ordered me to stop using it. I disagree. There's a difference between a majority and vast majority. He's gone now and I'm using it again. But I digress...) But 62 percent is a solid majority for sure.

As you might guess, the difference was bigger in metropolitan and urban areas. That makes sense, doesn't it? Few of those hunters have the luxury of being able to slip out the back door for a quick hunt before or after work. Now, I know you can say, "Well, they made the choice of living there." But you can see why they'd like to be able to have both days on the weekend.

Older hunters were also far more likely to support the ban. Anyone want to guess why? For a few it might be tradition. For many, they're retired.

So if a landowner can control access to his or her property, why do they care? Well, plenty let friends and others hunt. Maybe they just appreciate a day of relative quiet. Maybe they want to say, "Sorry, no hunting on my place on Sunday," but are just so nice they have a hard time saying no. Seriously, I know people like that. They like having than non hunting day to ride horses or whatever but they're just so doggone nice they wouldn't say no to me even if it just tore them up.

Again, thanks for the comments. I appreciate hearing from anyone who is willing to stand up for their beliefs.

mt

# 18

[February 1, 2008 5:35 AM]

Al Milton

In response to Backlash, I hunt private and public land. I started hunting on public land in the 70's for deer, grouse and turkey.

I have not had to worry about game warden's doing their job, on private or public land. I have been checked three times in over fourty five years of hunting.

If you are not in violation you have nothing to worry about. Portable tree stands are legal on public land, fixed are not.

Game wardens have the right to come on private and just as he can on public land. He dose not need a search warrent either. Thats why game wardens helped make raids on illegal wiskey operations years ago.

I am on the side of all hunters. Thats why I am in favor of Sunday Hunting. A lot of hunters do not hunt due to the lack of time off from work. Why buy a hunting license when you only get one or two days during the entire season to use it. If these hunters could hunt on Sunday they would more than likely re-join us.

Backlash, you are right all hunters must stick together in order to continue to enjoy our sport.

Al

# 19

[February 1, 2008 7:52 AM]

Backlash

Mark

I have noticed this several months ago about animals and politics.

On a web site there is 49,000 responses to stop deer hunting, another 22,000 responses as well.

In Maryland they call for a end to the season of cruelty for the deer.

When compared to last night debates about who will run the country as President 40 responses another 6 responses.

There is no way to put it Let's make deer our new politicians. They will get more coverage than the direction this country is going weather we like or not.

Oh'.. one other thing every top name animal rights group supports Hillary.

Consider this my fellow hunters while the lobbist are paying, who will be slaying.

VOTE

# 20

[February 1, 2008 10:23 AM]

Freddy : →http://www.vaturkey.com

Tony... I am against Sunday hunting. I just don't care for it. I have hunted Sunday on out of state trips... but don't call me a hypocrite. ;o) It's legal in those states and even though I've done it, I've always felt "weird" about it. Who knows, maybe it was the way I was raised, maybe it my religious beliefs, but I've done it and might do it some if it were legal in VA, but it would always have a strange feeling for me. I guess I'm a traditionalist.

I have one big reason that I'm against Sunday hunting... it's the landowners. I still have, fortunately, access to several pieces of private land to hunt. There's already a group of landowners in my area that are prepared to stop allowing any and all hunting on their property in protest if Sunday hunting is allowed. That would greatly affect me. I think something like 70% of people hunt on private land and we certainly don't want to alienate the private landowners out there. You think hunter numbers are declining now because they don't have anywhere to hunt? Wait until that group of landowners stops access all together. Okay... So you argue that they can just not allow hunting on their property on Sunday... That's an opening for trespassers and poachers. Another day a landowner has to deal with people on their property. Landowners are kind enough to allow us access 6 days a week... Is that not enough?

Backlash... I'm glad you think I have a "honey hole". I do own some private land that I try to manage and do hunt some but I still rely on other private landowners to allow me access to hunt. The notion that I "thumb my nose at the little guy" is wrong. I let several friends hunt my property. People are always complaining about not having any private land to hunt. You know what, I got most of my private places to hunt by knocking on doors and asking. You know what else? I've owned my property for over 5 years. You know how many people have called me, or sent me a letter, or stopped by to ask permission to hunt? ZERO! The notion that "unless you are really an animal rights person" also insults me. As hunters we all have different beliefs and ethics... I stand for what I believe is right and you do the same. We stand together as hunters, but we can still have differing opinions on issues. I'll be the first to say that I'll stand right beside you and fight for your right to hunt against people trying to take that away from us.

Mark... the 53% number I was using was the number that "Strongly Supported" Sunday hunting in response to Tony's "I am confident that I speak for the vast majority of Virginia's hunters. Lift the Sunday hunting ban completely." I was basically making the same point you did that it's not a "vast" majority. I think the 62% number was “some level of support” for Sunday hunting. Thanks for pointing that out.

Anyway... we all have our stance on the issue... I won't change yours and you won't change mine. That's what makes the world go around guys. I don't begrudge anyone for feeling the way you do. I don’t take it personal. I would more than likely be happy to share a hunting camp with any of you.

My last 2 thoughts, pretty much in jest... I love to spring gobbler hunt! I'm fortunate to be able to hunt (or take other people) almost everyday of the spring gobbler season. Forget giving the animals a day of rest... I need the day to rest!! Also, my personal opinion is the biggest thing keeping our youth out of the woods is Playstation, X-Box, etc. My brother invited a young man hunting one afternoon during deer season and his response was "No... I'm going to stay here and play Super Mario (or whatever game)." That's sad... :-(

Thanks for the debate and discussion and I know Mark appreciates everyone keeping it civil.

Thanks Mark!

# 21

[February 1, 2008 11:37 AM]

Mark Taylor

Freddy,

Thanks for the great post.

I think it's important for us to hear from folks on both sides of the issue. Any issue, really. If we all agree on stuff, that doesn't really get us anywhere. Disagreement spurs discussion, which spurs enlightenment.

The bottom line is that one-third of hunters are fine with the way things are and it's important for those who disagree with the ban to listen to their reasons. And, frankly, vice versa. If you want to win a debate -- or not lose -- it helps to know where the other side is coming from!

Like you said, it's pretty unlikely anything that appears here will convince someone to change their opinion. But even though I get to take the easy way out and stay publicly neutral on this so I can continue to report on this issue, I'm glad to be able to provide a forum in which we can discuss this with maturity.

Thanks again for the comment, and continued thanks to everyone for reading.

mt

# 22

[February 1, 2008 1:21 PM]

Bob H : →http://TJP

The game laws are already pretty complex now. You have to know whether you are east or west of route 29 for instance. For years, archers could shoot any deer but gun hunters were limited to bucks. Allowing archers to hunt on Sunday isn't going to make things any more confusing.

I am still waiting for a good reason to not have Sunday hunting on private land and I don't see it. By the way, I keep Holy the sabbath. As Jesus' asked, if your mule falls down in a well on a Sunday do you not labor then to try to save it?

I beleive one can "keep holy the sabbath" and hunt on a Sunday also.

Bob

# 23

[February 1, 2008 10:45 PM]

Tony Rutherford

Freddie: You sound like a Christian man. I'm a Christian man. Would it be inappropriate for me to call you my Christian brother? Would we still be Christian brothers if I told you I attended church on Saturday? Would you be opposed to me hunting on Sunday if I did so legally, with the permission of a landowner that also attended church on Saturday. We are both fine men and have brought our families up well. During the fall hunting months my landowner friend and myself work Monday thru Saturday during all daylight hours. Neither of us have the opportunity to spring gobbler hunt on any morning except for Sunday. We both love it probably as much as you do. We love, just like you do, taking a guest and watching their enjoyment. We both have two sons that love to hunt. Yes, like most kids their age they enjoy playing the electronic games. We agree that too much of the games is not good so we limit their play time. All of our kids would love to hunt in the afternoons following school. There isn't an adult around to take them afield. So they aren't permitted to go. It would be illegal at their age. We pretty much have only Sunday to hunt. In this situation what would you do Freddy? My landowner friend and I both work very hard and can't afford to use our vacation time to hunt. It wouldn't be fair to the ladies that like to travel in the summer during our vacation. Should our kids grow up and not have the opportunity to hunt because of the Sunday hunting ban? Should we change jobs? Should we worship a different God? Freedie this is not my situation. I simply wrote it hoping that it would open the eyes of someone that doesn't understand why someone may actually need to hunt on Sunday. I do work Monday through Saturday. Sunday truly is my only day to hunt. My interest in Sunday hunting isn't based on the fact that I can't hunt any other day. There were times when I was able, like you, to hunt some portion of about everyday, and I still wanted the choice to hunt on Sunday. Guess why? Because I want to be treated fairly and equally. I want to be treated how the Bill of Rights and Constitution promises me I will be. I'm not and it irritates the hell out of me. Would you be in favor of the law demanding that you and your family spent all day in church? Would you accept it if all stores and restaurants were closed on Sunday, except for the drug store? These are blue laws. They were repealed because they no longer were needed. We no longer need a Sunday hunting blue law. We should all have the choice to hunt because it's our constitutional right. It's a landowner's constitutional right to allow hunting on Sunday or not. I'd say if you hunted my land six out of seven days I'd be ready for you to take a rest too. Most people don't have that luxury. Statements that are made about six days of hunting are enough are typically made by people that are retired or don't work. Six days is actually a little excessive. Say maybe one or two days.....one of them a Sunday. You may never change how you feel, I hope this makes you look at this issue from a different perspective, my Christian friend.

# 24

[February 2, 2008 8:16 PM]

Tony Rutherford

Freddie: This is another scenario I'd like to share with you. This could be very realistic. A married couple own and operate a small rural motel, gas station/convenience store, and have for years. The location is close to lots of outdoor activity opportunities. They work long, hard hours to eke out a modest living. They depend on local sales for the foundation of their overall budget requirements. They depend on seasonal fishing and hunting related sales for any real profit. Each spring fishermen and turkey hunters make purchases from the business. They booked all the motel rooms during the early fish run on Friday and Saturday nights. During turkey season hunters come in on Friday, yet seldom stay more than one night. The same thing occurs during deer season. They have even tried to special discount package pricing to get the hunters to lodge both Friday and Saturday night, but they seldom do. Most of the hunters checkout Saturday morning before they headout to hunt. These nice folks sell very little product on Saturday afternoon nor most of Sunday during hunting seasons. There is little desire from the hunters to stay there on Saturday night since there is a ban on Sunday hunting. These folks barely get by, but it's the only living they know. Do you feel like the ban on Sunday hunting is fair to these folks? Right across the river in another state Sunday hunting is permitted. The stores there are much more profitable due to hunting related sales on Sunday. This could very easily be the case. Not being able to hunt on Sunday makes no sense and can be a coordination nightmare. Let's look at it from a potential safety issue. A hunter, rather than get a room for just one night drives to the hunt area early in the morning. They are fine until, after a long day of hunting, they get in their vehicle and make that long trip home. Hopefully, they don't fall asleep at the wheel. None of what I write is meant to criticize how you feel about Sunday hunting. I do hope you and others that oppose Sunday hunting will read it at realize, legalizing Sunday hunting actually has some very positive points. The best aspect of all of this would be that, unless you drive by and see one of the hunter's vehicle parked at a hunting spot, you'll never know they hunted. Freddie, I'd like to read your comments.

# 25

[February 2, 2008 8:55 PM]

Tony Rutherford

Freddie: I forgot to thank you for bringing to my attention that a vast majority of hunters don't strongly support Sunday hunting. As Mark wrote, 62% expressed some level of support. As you probably already know, these were the results from the January 2006 DGIF Sunday Hunter Opinion survey. DGIF conducted a similar survey in 1996. That year 45% of the surveyed hunters expressed some level of support. Freddie, that's a 17% increase in support over ten years. The DGIF found the change very surprising. One thing I will assure you from following the Sunday hunting debate. The numbers of supporters will increase at a rate greater than 1.7% yearly in the future. The interest in Sunday hunting is growing much faster than it did during the past decade. This fact is evidenced by the increase in number of bills introduced that ask for some level of Sunday hunting in recent years. Freddie, this is not intended to be a personal assault.....I do hope some of what I write turns on the light. It's not a bad thing, this Sunday hunting thing.

# 26

[February 3, 2008 9:43 AM]

Randy Bodkins

If Sunday hunting was allowed in Virginia, I would buy a nonresident license tomorrow. I used to love to hunt in Bath and Highland Counties, but i'm not going to drive over just to hunt a couple of Saturdays.

# 27

[February 3, 2008 1:09 PM]

bownarrow

As a hunter in Floyd County I am perfectly happy with the current regulations. Six days a week is plenty.

The only people who seem to think an extra day is so important are the folks living in the city or suburbs.

Call in late or ask to leave early during the week if you need an extra day.

# 28

[February 4, 2008 8:12 AM]

TJ

I wonder if an increase in hunting license fees were to go to churches, etc. in the state, would there be a "change of heart" on the issue from that group?

# 29

[February 4, 2008 3:46 PM]

Freddy : →http://www.vaturkey.com

Tony…

Wow… you’ve put a lot of effort into this debate… I’m afraid I just don’t have the energy to debate that this much on the internet… maybe in front of Congress, but not here! ;-)

However, you did take the effort and asked me a few specific questions so I’ll try to discuss those.

I’m not going to make this a religious discussion. I don’t think I’ve made that argument in my reasons for being against it.

Your next inquiry was about working six days a week, from daylight to dark, and seemingly only having 1 week for vacation. My response to that question would be, that yes, you DO need to find another job. That’s brutal and if you are working those type of hours then you are a workaholic… I’m a huntaholic! At some point you have to make a choice. If kids are involved you need to quit working so much and spend time with your kids. You made the comment “someone may actually need to hunt on Sunday.” I think this discussion is about “wanting” to hunt on Sunday and I’m not sure that anyone “needs” to hunt on Sunday.

In your next post you talked about the people running the hotel/motel. My personal opinion is they should have studied the demographics and done more market research and moved it across the river so they could get Saturday night lodging. ;o) They knew this going in. Businesses have survived for, well for forever, so why should that be a valid argument?

In your next post you pointed out the increase in support for Sunday hunting. I don’t know why the Game Department was surprised by that. We live in an ever changing world. As more people have white collar jobs, live in the suburbs and cities, and the cities encroach on the suburbs, and the suburbs encroach on the country, the rural aspect of our state is declining. Not surprising at all.

Tony, obviously some of my answers above are tongue in cheek. You will not change my position on this and I won’t change yours. We could set here and debate this back and forth until we are both blue in the face.

In closing, I will give you some good news… Sunday hunting will happen at some point. More than likely, sooner rather than later. Until then I’ll keep expressing my opinion if asked, support the Farm Bureau in their stance, and go on with my life. In 40 years when I tell my grandchildren that “back in the day” we couldn’t hunt on Sundays they will look at me with disbelief… my comment will be “Ah… The Good Old Days!”

Thanks for the discussion.

# 30

[February 4, 2008 7:50 PM]

Tony Rutherford

Freddy, first I want to apolgize for improperly spelling your name. I just noticed. Sorry. I guess I was hoping to demonstrate that having the choice to hunt on Sunday is truly needed for some folks if they are going to have any opportunity to hunt. Yes, you're right, I won't chnage your mind. I would like to bring something to your attention. The Farm Bureau's opposition to Sunday hunting is very tied to religion. If you take their stance, it's a religious stance. You have every right to your feeling's. Thank God, we all do. All I'm wanting is my legal right's. The laws discriminate against folks like me that would like to have the choice to hunt on Sunday. Even if it were legal, you'd still have the same right's you've always had. You would never be expected to hunt. I find it incomprehensible that someone would be so opposed to Sunday hunting that they's suggest a change in someone's job just so they could hunt. It's obvious that the law is wrong by the number of people interested and the number of new Sunday hunting legislative bills introduced each year. Many people say that six days is enough. I stated that six days was more than enough, just make one of the days Sunday. Not many people can hunt six days. I'm just asking for one. Make it a Sunday and I'll assure you that you'll never know that I'm in the woods unless curiousity gets the best of you and you come and look.

# 31

[February 5, 2008 1:51 AM]

Backlash

Let me start by saying "United We Stand, Divided We Fall". There seem to be no "Unity" amongst us hunters, none.

As I have said before there are groups that have joined together not only to eliminate hunting but to destroy hunting equipment, sabotage hunting areas, and cause injury to hunters.

Hopefully I have your attention, while surfing the web this weekend I came across a web site sharing information with anti-hunting groups through out the United States.

This is a portion of that information that was posted against you and I the hunter:

"Of all the threats we have received, over 90% come from deer hunters. Our preferred tactic for this type of sab is to assume the roll of the inconsiderate hunter. Walk loudly through the brush. If you hear a deer call, fire at a dirt mound. Basically, make yourself a pain in the **** while still appearing to be a hunter.

Deer are sensitive to noise and sound, stand upwind of a hunting ground and spray some cheap perfume. smoke a cigar or pipe while hunting. Hang perfumed soap in camo bags from trees in a heavily hunted area.

Not so legal tactics for deer stands and blinds-

1. If possible, remove the deer stand from the area either by dismantling or toppling it over an embankment. 2. Remove and destroy the ladder. 3. Remove the corn from the feeder and use it to fill the stand. 4. Most stands contain chairs. Cover them in your favorite substances. Examples include: urine; grease; pepper spray; and (our favorite) a combination of fly attractant, excrement, and molasses. 5. If the door is locked, super glue locks (don't forget the hinges)."

Why did I post this information simple why we debate divided these groups joined United 100% to stop hunting at any cost. As we stand by an debate with one another there voice and numbers grow as our numbers dwindle. How is that possible consider the hunter with a 5 day work week, now he has forced overtime Saturday, no hunting on Sunday do you get it.

what about our Governor that said he was a hunter and if he was elected he would consider Sunday hunting correct me if I am wrong please did the price of a license double for not only hunting but fishing too.

And now he seeks $400,000 dollars from salt water fishermen. And still no hunting on Sunday, the only person winning is the anti-hunting crowd, because we can't come together and support one another. How much of our tax dollar do we have to surrender for Sunday hunting don't we give up enough.

Let me drive drive tax dollar home to you guys... My incentive check for the year was $1,865.64 after taxes it became $1,027.27 due to new income tax laws for this fiscal year. It do not matter your party affiliation, what I am saying giving more money to the state isn't the answer

Standing together United is the only answer. Because I will be honest with you men I love hunting, but I am not willing to surrender anymore of my tax dollars for Saturday and Sunday hunting.

We are hunters one and all United We Stand, or Divided We Fall.

VOTE

# 32

[February 5, 2008 9:52 AM]

Mark Taylor

Thanks to everyone who continues to take part in this discussion, either by posting or by reading.

A couple things I want to address.

Before he was elected, Tim Kaine told me in an interview that he disagreed with the Sunday hunting ban. I got the impression his opinion was more about legality and perceived fairness than about actually promoting hunting. He's a lawyer and recognizes that "giving the animals a day of rest" isn't exactly strong legal ground. And, of course, there's that separation of church and state thing.

But I didn't get the feeling Kaine was going to push for changing the ban. I think he was just offering assurance that if the General Assembly did something about the ban he wouldn't veto it.

If he were a huntaholic like many of us, maybe it would be a bigger priority and he would be encouraging movement in the General Assembly. But he's not, and clearly he's got plenty of other pretty important things to deal with.

As for hunters being divided, there is some risk there. I think it's minimal. We might vehemently disagree with each other on some things, but I think we will unite to fight serious threats.

As it is, I don't see the nuts such as the one who wrote the call to action Backlash posted as serious threats. None but the most idiotic would dare go onto private land and vandalize our stands. If you leave stands on public land, chances are much better that it will get stolen by an unethical hunter than by an anti-hunter. And when I hear them make threats about going out and making disturbances, I think: "Great -- deer drivers."

The biggest threat to our sport? The average age is going up, up, up. We are evaporating, slowly but fairly steadily. And this is happening even though hunting opportunities are generally fantastic.

There's no single thing to blame, although the changing complexion of our landscape from rural to urban/suburban is the big one.

But we also all know that kids (and other potential new hunters) have lots of recreation options.

Of course, the Sunday hunting issue comes into play in any discussion about recruitment. Would lifting the ban help turn the tide? It's hard to say. The fact is, hunter numbers are also declining in states that have Sunday hunting. On the other hand, it seems it certainly couldn't hurt recruiting to be able to offer an additional day of weekend hunting.

As I've written time and time again, I don't see much change in Virginia until a major advocacy group (NRA, National Shooting Sports Foundation, etc.) decides to get majorly involved. That's nothing against passionate citizen activists such as Tony. But any campaign for change, especially one as major and potentially controversial as this one, takes a lot of time and effort, a lot of political maneuvering and, probably most importantly, lots and lots of money.

Thanks for reading.

mt

# 33

[February 5, 2008 6:00 PM]

Tony Rutherford

Mark, thanks for the comments. Special thanks for the opportunity you have given us here to voice our opinion. You touch on a point that I have attempted to make very clear. The basis for much of the Sunday hunting opposition is just not valid enough to keep hunters from having the choice to hunt Sundays or not. I e-mailed Governor Kaine several weeks ago and asked his opinion on whether the Sunday hunting ban was constitutional. I received a response letter from L. Preston Bryant, our natural resources Secretary. He said in his letter he knew of no reason that Virginia's current law would be unconstitutional. I sent a response e-mail to his letter mentioning that hunting was the only legal activity that Virginia banned on Sunday. In fact, I said, hunting is the only legel activty banned on any day in Virginia. I asked if current Virginia law didn't socially discriminate against hunters. I further asked, isn't discrimination unconstitutional. I sent copies of this e-mail to the State Attorney General's office and Governor Kaine's office. I have not received a response from any of these offices. It's my opinion that Virginia law, as it relates to Sunday hunting is definitely discriminatory and therefore very likely unconstitutional. Sunday hunting will probably never win any popularity contests. Unconstitutional treatment of any group of people should certainly get the attention of our lawmakers. This issue should be addressed in accordance with our Bill of Right's and Constitution. It's not a battle that Freddy and I should be fighting. It's a law that should have been changed long ago. This "blue law' should have been struck from Virginia's code years ago when the numerous other blue laws were. If it were legal to hunt on Sunday I may never do so, but I may hunt every Sunday. Each of us deserves the rightful and lawful personal choice. The law needs to be repealed by Virginia and not at the effort and expense of her citizen's. The only way Virginia could prove that the law is not socially discriminatory would be to re-enact all repealed blue laws. That would cause a general uproar. It would bring to the attention of non-hunters, exactly what hunters have dealt with for years, and are continuing to deal with. I wonder if the legal team at Roanoke Times would be willing to give their opinion?